Census Bureau

[jeff061]

Am I just a bad citizen? I've been lucky enough to be selected three years in a row for the Mass survey. The first year annoyed me and I ignored them most the time, but they got the information out of me. The second year I was a little more patient, but the entire process angered me, seeing as how these people interrupt you at your home several times a year even with full cooperation.

I moved and luckily enough it's another picked address. How many are there selected exactly. Anyways this time I am completely blowing them off, ignoring their knocks and their phone calls...on my cell. How did these people get my cell. I'm wondering if my landlord gave them my number.

So it's memorial day and these people knocked on my door three times today spend a few minutes ringing my bell. Which just deepens my resolve to blow them off and waste their time.

Now they like to threaten how I am required to obey by law (I cut my nose to spite my face with those threats). But they are very vague and the nearest I can tell is a $100 fine.

Anyways, maybe I'm just neurotic and just a little to anti government/society/authority/whatever. But one of these guys just left my door and I'm a bit pissy. I'm actually a little surprised at their tenacity.

When I'm relaxing at home, don't interrupt me if I don't know you.

[jbergey22]

Well its sponsored by the US government so they wont let you off the hook without doing it. They will start knocking on your doors more often and make more and more calls until they eventually track you down at work if you continue to ignore it. And sadly enough there isnt much you can do about it unless you move to another country. $100 fine is on the very light end of what they could do.

The information they collect is only used to get the demographics of certain regions so they can properly distrubute tax dollars, state reps, etc. Ive never heard of anyone going to jail for what they report on a census survey.

[jeff061]

Guess I'll find out. I'd be shocked if I even got a $100 fine. But I'm prepared to pay far more, so no big deal. It's far more likely nothing will come of it.

In any case they just left another voice mail on my phone saying tomorrow's the deadline for the month. I suspect all that's going to happen is I'm not going to hear from them until next month. Which is exactly what would have happened if I had wasted my time with the guy.

I guess there are only 55,000 people across the country selected. Guess I'm just terrifically lucky to have my address picked two selection periods in a row.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Am I just a bad citizen?

You asked so I'd have to say yeah, your attitude does kind of suck about this.

I might not have volunteered that opinion if you didn't ask, but you did.

[Young Drachma]

Why not do it? I don't really understand why it's such a burden, especially given how much it can help your local area.

[jbergey22]

You would have this survey done in the time it took you to post about and respond to all the replies you will get. Its obviously important otherwise they wouldnt bother doing it.

[jeff061]

I asked that question already knowing the answer, yes, yes I am. It was rhetorical. I don't feel guilty. I could go into more about my opinion of nationalism and paying your dues as an American. But that's another flameworthy topic. My parents fucked here. I owe them, the land they were on is inconsequential. So yeah, I am a really really bad citizen.

Why not do it? I don't really understand why it's such a burden, especially given how much it can help your local area.

I'm a little more... mentally unbalanced than most. People intruding on my privacy(these are intrusive questions) and people not leaving me alone are sensitive spots within my psychosis.

You would have this survey done in the time it took you to post about and respond to all the replies you will get. Its obviously important otherwise they wouldnt bother doing it.

I find this entire process so bothersome and angering I was really wondering if it was just me. Which it looks like it is. Question answered . In anycase, the first few times a few years back I did just answer it to get it done with. Here we are a good dozen or so visits later and it's still going on. If it was just one or two, I wouldn't care as much. Though I'm not a fan of telling strangers how much money I make amongst other questions that shouldn't be asked from door to door irritants.

Just sick LDS on me and let it be done with.

[Swaggs]

I'm sure the folks that are seeking you out are not getting paid too well for it and are just trying to do their job. It is unfortunate that they have picked you twice and you are inconvenienced by it, but it seems like you are making things harder on yourself and them by prolonging the process.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by jeff061

People intruding on my privacy(these are intrusive questions) and people not leaving me alone are sensitive spots within my psychosis.

This is where the census has gone off the deep end. It's far more than tracking how many folks are in the country and where they live, and even goes beyond ethnic background (which I get for diversity's sake, even if I don't fully agree with how overboard THAT has gone). It should take them like 2 minutes at your door to get the info they need, but they ask a lot more than that.

[jbergey22]

Nevermind

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

This is where the census has gone off the deep end. It's far more than tracking how many folks are in the country and where they live, and even goes beyond ethnic background (which I get for diversity's sake, even if I don't fully agree with how overboard THAT has gone). It should take them like 2 minutes at your door to get the info they need, but they ask a lot more than that.

They use the data for things like school additions, community centers, and to get an appoximation of how much tax dollars they need to set aside in a particular region. The census is far more important than just knowing how many people live in the US.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

They use the data for things like school additions, community centers, and to get an appoximation of how much tax dollars they need to set aside in a particular region. The census is far more important than just knowing how many people live in the US.

Exactly what data is used for that? And should it be? That's probably opening up another huge can of worms about how the government is involved in far more things than it should be. Most of what you are talking about is local data that they mostly have anyway (from, say, school registrations) that should not involve federal money for the most part.

[Galaxy]

Can't they just get the financial information from the IRS?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Exactly what data is used for that? And should it be? That's probably opening up another huge can of worms about how the government is involved in far more things than it should be. Most of what you are talking about is local data that they mostly have anyway (from, say, school registrations) that should not involve federal money for the most part.

When a school requests additional funds for whatever reason they look at census data. When whatever state runs out of unemployment funds or whatever funds they ask the national government for help they look at this data. When a local government asks for help(loans, grants, w/e) the census helps determine if that local government needs it. It goes on and on and on what it is used for. By not doing it you are only hurting your local community.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Can't they just get the financial information from the IRS?

Youd think they could athough the census is plotted out so maybe that is easier. A person could report earnings from different states.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Can't they just get the financial information from the IRS?

Not everyone files a tax return. Not everyone is on unemployment or files for any sort of government assistance, either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Most of what you are talking about is local data that they mostly have anyway (from, say, school registrations) that should not involve federal money for the most part.

How do school registrations cover people with no children?
Or DMV info for people without cars/licenses?
And so on & so forth.

The longer form versions of the census is where data such as average commute time to work, net migration data, and a wide array of hundreds or even thousands of bits of information useful for planning for a variety of agencies comes from.

And there's definitely a distinction to be made between what "should" (in theory) involve federal money vs what "does" (in practice) involve federal money.

[Ryche]

I work for the Census Bureau. It sounds like you were chosen for the American Community Survey. Basically it took the place of long form surveys being given to some households during the decennial census. The idea is to provide a more updated set of statistics for communities to use.

They are going to be persistent, that's their job. They don't get the option of choosing someone else. And yes, you are legally required to respond although I have no idea what the penalty for refusing is.

If it makes you feel any better, the information you provide is protected and does not leave the census bureau as anything more than one anonymous person among 5000 or so in your area. The penalty for anyone leaking out that information is very harsh.

We get lots of crazy stories about the door to door people being attacked, threatened, etc. Not a job they could pay me to do.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

How do school registrations cover people with no children?
Or DMV info for people without cars/licenses?
And so on & so forth.

The school registrations example was to cover the distribution of education funds example given in the post I was replying to. You HAVE demographic info on students, why do you need more? If people don't have a car / license, how exactly do they affect highway dollars again? That was my point there - for many of the example programs given, there are already better ways of collecting real data than the sampling methods in use by these longer surveys.

Note that I'm not one who would refuse a census taker on these grounds, just that I understand the frustration of being asked all these questions that the government has no business asking.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm sure the folks that are seeking you out are not getting paid too well for it and are just trying to do their job. It is unfortunate that they have picked you twice and you are inconvenienced by it, but it seems like you are making things harder on yourself and them by prolonging the process.

Yep.

[GoldenEagle]

Yeah, your really being a dick here.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Ryche

If it makes you feel any better, the information you provide is protected and does not leave the census bureau as anything more than one anonymous person among 5000 or so in your area. The penalty for anyone leaking out that information is very harsh.

At the rate government laptops are getting stolen, I'm not sure how much better that would make me feel...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Guess I'll find out. I'd be shocked if I even got a $100 fine. But I'm prepared to pay far more, so no big deal. It's far more likely nothing will come of it.

In any case they just left another voice mail on my phone saying tomorrow's the deadline for the month. I suspect all that's going to happen is I'm not going to hear from them until next month. Which is exactly what would have happened if I had wasted my time with the guy.

I guess there are only 55,000 people across the country selected. Guess I'm just terrifically lucky to have my address picked two selection periods in a row.

I think this is the weirdest part of the whole thing. You're willing to pay far more than $100 just to avoid taking a stupid survey?

[Mustang]

If they ask if any member of your household has sand in their vagina, make sure you answer - "Yes"

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think this is the weirdest part of the whole thing. You're willing to pay far more than $100 just to avoid taking a stupid survey?

Damn straight. And its taking many stupid surveys at horribly inconvenient times.

[Toddzilla]

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Damn straight. And its taking many stupid surveys at horribly inconvenient times.

Well I sure hope you dont take advantage of the things these "stupid surveys" give you. And it wouldnt have to be an inconvenience if youd just do the thing when it was convenient and send it back to them like they ask.

[BigDawg]

I have to jump in as I just finished a stint ( 5 weeks ) as a address lister for the US Census. I basicly went around house to house ( or apart/mobile home/ect ) with a hand held GPS computer to update ( add or delete ) addresses for the upcomming 2010 census.

Based on this updated info they will mail out cards to all addresses to fill out in JAN than come back in MAR or APRIL to spot check or run down those that didnt reply.

I could list the TONS of things this info is used for but I think you guys get the idea. those of you that try to aviod givig this info out realy dont make it hard on the canvassers as we get paid preaty good.

16 bucks hour plus .55 milage.... so if I have to keep comming out to knock on your door 3 times a day thats 20 bucks in my pocket each time..LOL

BTW you are required by law to provide the info requested....they can be found in the US Code, Title13, sections 9, 141, 193, 214, 221.

Of course this guy that complains will be the same one i 5 years that bitches his STATE/CITY/SCHOOL got less FED monies than last year.

[jeff061]

I doubt I will.

And they didn't send me a written survey. They sent me a letter saying I was selected and would be visited. Both times. I've never seen any survey in print, it's all on the laptop they have on them.

Of course this guy that complains will be the same one i 5 years that bitches his STATE/CITY/SCHOOL got less FED monies than last year.

Extremely unlikely.

[BigDawg]

Besides the decennial census, the Census Bureau conducts nearly one hundred other surveys and censuses every year. By law, no one is permitted to reveal information from these censuses and surveys that could identify any person, household, or business. Individual records from each decennial census are made public 72 years after the census has been taken.

Besides providing the basis for congressional redistricting, Census data are used in many other ways. Since 1975, the Census Bureau has had responsibility to produce small-area population data needed to redraw state legislative and congressional districts. Other important uses of Census data include the distribution of funds for government programs such as Medicaid; planning the right locations for schools, roads, and other public facilities; helping real estate agents and potential residents learn about a neighborhood; and identifying trends over time that can help predict future needs. Most Census data are available for many levels of geography, including states, counties, cities and towns, ZIP codes, census tracts and blocks, and much more

[BigDawg]

Just for you Jeff I looked it up.....

Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by BigDawg

Besides providing the basis for congressional redistricting, Census data are used in many other ways. Since 1975, the Census Bureau has had responsibility to produce small-area population data needed to redraw state legislative and congressional districts. Other important uses of Census data include the distribution of funds for government programs such as Medicaid; planning the right locations for schools, roads, and other public facilities; helping real estate agents and potential residents learn about a neighborhood; and identifying trends over time that can help predict future needs. Most Census data are available for many levels of geography, including states, counties, cities and towns, ZIP codes, census tracts and blocks, and much more

Let's come back to the original issue and why I understand jeff's point: why does any of that require asking anything beyond number of people, ages, and possibly ethnic background? Unless there are 20 people living at an address, how does this take any more than 2 minutes?

[BigDawg]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Let's come back to the original issue and why I understand jeff's point: why does any of that require asking anything beyond number of people, ages, and possibly ethnic background? Unless there are 20 people living at an address, how does this take any more than 2 minutes?

I reread the first 3 posts of his and their was nothing about HOW LONG it takes???? I know it did take me more than 1 mi a house to do what I had to do. so it takes 5 mins of your time to do the longer servay that some are asked?? so what. Is their some secreat info the gov wats to fid out aout you that they already dont know or cant find out already???

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by BigDawg

Just for you Jeff I looked it up.....

Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

Yeah, but that's falsifying information, not refusing to answer, innit?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Let's come back to the original issue and why I understand jeff's point: why does any of that require asking anything beyond number of people, ages, and possibly ethnic background? Unless there are 20 people living at an address, how does this take any more than 2 minutes?

You dont think average income/per area would help with that? You dont think average commute times would help getting proper city transportation lined up?

IMO you cant possibly understand Jeffs point because you cant possibly know how important this information is. The government spends millions of dollars every 10 years to make sure this is accurate.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BigDawg

I reread the first 3 posts of his and their was nothing about HOW LONG it takes???? I know it did take me more than 1 mi a house to do what I had to do. so it takes 5 mins of your time to do the longer servay that some are asked?? so what. Is their some secreat info the gov wats to fid out aout you that they already dont know or cant find out already???

Some people just want to be anti government but enjoy everything about what it provides. Its pretty sad IMO that a lot of people give their life for the country they live in and others cant fill out a survey.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Let's come back to the original issue and why I understand jeff's point: why does any of that require asking anything beyond number of people, ages, and possibly ethnic background? Unless there are 20 people living at an address, how does this take any more than 2 minutes?

Takes about a half hour. They ask for employment histories (you and spouse), recent residence histories, educational history, kids (living with you or elsewhere), child support, investments ("how much would you estimate you made from stocks last year?"), did you get a stimulus check and if so how did you use it, are you or have you ever received welfare, etc. They ask the same questions again every few months. Forever, best I can tell.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You dont think average income/per area would help with that? You dont think average commute times would help getting proper city transportation lined up?

Isn't average income already available from income tax / payroll tax (which covers those who don't file returns)? It should not be part of a census. And most of this data is collected via sampling, only asking a portion of the folks in an area, which leads to skewed / incorrect / misleading data. It's also dependent on asking folks and receiving an honest answer to the questions. Things like transportation are better handled through the folks parked on the streets watching/counting where people are actually driving (or through the automated sensors they have for counting traffic), not by walking up to their door, knocking, and asking pointed questions. It also has the advantage of collecting more complete, accurate, and GUARANTEED anonymous data.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Takes about a half hour. They ask for employment histories (you and spouse), recent residence histories, educational history, kids (living with you or elsewhere), child support, investments ("how much would you estimate you made from stocks last year?"), did you get a stimulus check and if so how did you use it, are you or have you ever received welfare, etc. They ask the same questions again every few months. Forever, best I can tell.

And I would agree with jeff that that seems pretty invasive and would probably start ticking me off after a while as well. The 5 minute surveys being discussed above I have no problem with.

[cuervo72]

Yeah, I'm not exactly thrilled about having to do this repeatedly. If you don't call them back to arrange a time or if they don't catch you to do it over the phone, they WILL show up at your door, and there's not much choice but to drop whatever you're doing for a half hour and answer the battery of questions.

[jeff061]

They showed up at my door before calling me or providing any alternative.

And yeah, that was the same penalty I found. 1k for falsifying information.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Isn't average income already available from income tax / payroll tax (which covers those who don't file returns)? It should not be part of a census. And most of this data is collected via sampling, only asking a portion of the folks in an area, which leads to skewed / incorrect / misleading data. It's also dependent on asking folks and receiving an honest answer to the questions. Things like transportation are better handled through the folks parked on the streets watching/counting where people are actually driving (or through the automated sensors they have for counting traffic), not by walking up to their door, knocking, and asking pointed questions. It also has the advantage of collecting more complete, accurate, and GUARANTEED anonymous data.

Every single person does the 10 year survey. Im not really sure what the yearly surveys accomplish however. Also the census is plotted into areas not cities so it would be hard to get accurate income information. For instance Chicago is probably plotted into 50-100 different areas.

[gstelmack]

I don't remember the 10 year survey having questions that extensive, but then again it has been 10 years...

[CU Tiger]

Yeah Im not sure Id answer that either.
I might file a restraining order against the stalker....
Or a beware of dog sign and letting my 145lb rotty out to play might work....

Seriously i am all for you counting me, and I might could even see giving SOME of that info to the govt (hell they can get it anyway) but i am not sure I wanna go handing out that info to a local who could use it improperly

Sitting here having a beer and waiting on dinner with a lawyer friend he says that only head count data is protected by the above referenced law and that "I refuse to answer that question is a perfectly legal response"...also 5th amendment rights could be cited...this is not his specialty so ignore everything I posted (his disclaimer)

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I don't remember the 10 year survey having questions that extensive, but then again it has been 10 years...

Yeah, this is not the 10 year survey. It's an ongoing survey where they touch back each quarter or so.

[cuervo72]

Ahh...the "Survey of Income and Program Participation". Looks like we're up again in June.