college football head coach hiring/firing thread, '08

[dawgfan]

Time to crank this up since Tommy Bowden has already gotten the boot, and more are on the way.

I'll start off by asking for opinions from the board about various head coaching candidates for positions around the country:

Gary Patterson
Brian Kelly
Todd Graham
Brady Hoke
Will Muschamp
Dave Christensen
DeWayne Walker
Lane Kiffin
Pat Hill

How good are these guys, what are their flaws, what would it take for them to leave their current jobs, where do you see them going, etc.

My input is on the firing side - Ty Willingham is a dead-coach-walking. The UW is apparently waiting to pull the trigger on him until the season is concluded, but make no mistake - barring a miraculous turnaround to the season, Ty is a goner. It would've happened last year, but UW President Mark Emmert in the end decided that the political fallout from firing Ty after 3 seasons was too much of a risk to his efforts to lobby the Washington legislature for a significant budget plan for the University. UW AD Todd Turner was fired instead for his behind the scenes undermining of Emmert's intention to fire Ty.

The UW apparently feels that it would be best to let Ty play out the season, which would both:

A) Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt he's a failure at the UW, and;
B) Show prospective new coaches that the UW will display reasonable patience

That said, I'd be surprised if Ty isn't fired (or offers his resignation) after the Apple Cup and before the December 6 game with Cal. I don't think the UW can afford to be behind other schools in their coaching search.

From a personal perspective, I'd like to see Emmert force Jim Mora to say "no" to the job. Yeah, he's the coach-in-waiting for the Seahawks, but I think Emmert still needs to try and see if he can wrest Mora away. Given the current state of the Seahawks and their future prospects and Mora's ties to the UW as an alumnus and former player, I think Mora could be persuaded. I'm not so sure though that Emmert is as convinced that Mora should be a candidate.

I doubt we'll get Gary Pinkel - it just seems like too much of a stretch for Pinkel, at his age, to walk away from Mizzou after building that program up and now enjoying the rewards of great new and remodeled facilities and a top-level program.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I doubt we'll get Gary Pinkel - it just seems like too much of a stretch for Pinkel, at his age, to walk away from Mizzou after building that program up and now enjoying the rewards of great new and remodeled facilities and a top-level program.

**DUCK***

[Karlifornia]

I've always liked Pat Hill, and would like to see what would happen if he got a shot in a BCS conference.

[Butter]

Brian Kelly hasn't done enough with Cincinnati yet for him to be considered a candidate for another step up, in my opinion. He's had some bad luck with QB injuries, but he needs a couple more years at UC to see what he can do with a team that is almost all his.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Brian Kelly hasn't done enough with Cincinnati yet for him to be considered a candidate for another step up, in my opinion. He's had some bad luck with QB injuries, but he needs a couple more years at UC to see what he can do with a team that is almost all his.

I'm fairly certain he'll be a candidate for multiple jobs this year. Whether or not those job offers will be enticing enough for him to leave Cincinnati after just 2 seasons, I don't know. But if he had any west coast coaching and recruiting ties, he'd likely be at or near the top of the Huskies' wish list. I think he'd be a great hire for the UW, but they apparently want to focus on guys with west coast ties.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I've always liked Pat Hill, and would like to see what would happen if he got a shot in a BCS conference.

I'm guessing there's a good chance Pat Hill ends up at the UW. The Huskies likely won't get Mora, Tedford or Pinkel. They'll probably make an effort to go after Chris Peterson, but may get rebuffed. Pat Hill wants the job, and will probably be the backup plan for the UW if they can't get one of their dream candidates.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'm guessing there's a good chance Pat Hill ends up at the UW. The Huskies likely won't get Mora, Tedford or Pinkel. They'll probably make an effort to go after Chris Peterson, but may get rebuffed. Pat Hill wants the job, and will probably be the backup plan for the UW if they can't get one of their dream candidates.

You think Chris Peterson would turn UW down? Why do you think so? I could see him going for it..he stays in the northwest (if that means anything to him), I imagine he'd be getting a raise, and he's now in the BCS.

I mean, whoever inherits the team is probably already getting a team on the rise in a conference that has a yearly crap shoot for 2nd place. It's an intriguing job.

[Young Drachma]

Where's Ty Willingham going after he gets fired? I'd love to see him Wyoming. Mostly just to break barriers and maybe because he'd be able to bring coaches who are a huge upgrade over the D 1-AA staff of Joe Glenn. Joe Glenn at Wyoming will almost undoubtedly be fired this year.

[MacroGuru]

Patterson's name is getting tossed around about the Clemson job, which I think it would be cool to see but bad for TCU.

I would like to see Walker get a chance, be it at a BCS school or Non BCS, I think he will be successful wherever he goes.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Brian Kelly hasn't done enough with Cincinnati yet for him to be considered a candidate for another step up, in my opinion. He's had some bad luck with QB injuries, but he needs a couple more years at UC to see what he can do with a team that is almost all his.

That's a fair point to some degree, but he's won everywhere he has been. Depending on how this year goes, he'd have a fairly similar resume to Urban Meyer before he got the Florida job. Of course, Meyer was coming off a 12-0 year with a BCS win at Utah, but it was only his second year there and his 4th year as a head coach. Kelly can counter that with multiple national championships (plus 13 years of experience) at GVSU.

If Cincy goes to a decent bowl game with their 3rd or 4th string QB playing this year after a 10 win season last year, I think he'll get some big offers.

[timmynausea]

Todd Graham was an assistant at WVU for 1 or 2 years. I actually find it somewhat interesting that he gets such acclaim since he runs the defense, and it's Tulsa's (Malzahn's) offense that does so well. Graham is a good recruiter, though.

[Kodos]

IU needs to sack Bill Lynch. He is a great guy, but not a Big Ten level coach. IU also needs to pony up more money instead of trying to go the cheapo route on coaches.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

You think Chris Peterson would turn UW down? Why do you think so? I could see him going for it..he stays in the northwest (if that means anything to him), I imagine he'd be getting a raise, and he's now in the BCS.

I mean, whoever inherits the team is probably already getting a team on the rise in a conference that has a yearly crap shoot for 2nd place. It's an intriguing job.

Peterson reportedly is very happy in Boise as well as having a family situation that makes him very reluctant to move. There is also speculation his primary choice if he moved on to a BCS school would be Oregon, where he was an assistant coach under Mike Bellotti.

I'd guess Peterson will be a top target for the UW. On the plus side:

- The UW is a BCS school
- The UW has enough built-in advantages that a good coach should be able to annually compete for the conference title
- The UW can pay in the upper tier of college coach salaries

On the down side:

- Recruiting under Ty has been spotty, and the job is a definitely a full rebuild, both to upgrade the talent level and reverse the recent trend of losing mentality
- The Pac-10 has gotten a lot stronger in the last several years, making it harder to maintain success in the upper half of the conference
- The UW faces a major facilities upgrade with Husky Stadium that currently lacks adequate funding

I think the UW is still an upper-echelon job if one looks in the longer-term, but short-term, it's a real challenge.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Where's Ty Willingham going after he gets fired? I'd love to see him Wyoming. Mostly just to break barriers and maybe because he'd be able to bring coaches who are a huge upgrade over the D 1-AA staff of Joe Glenn. Joe Glenn at Wyoming will almost undoubtedly be fired this year.

I've seen it proposed that Ty would be best-suited to either a military academy or an elite academic school (like a Vanderbilt or Rice). Given his personality and how he approaches coaching football, I tend to agree with that view.

[GrantDawg]

Will Muschamp will get a Head Coaching job this year. He seems to be the hot name right now.

[MJ4H]

Will was about 2 hours away from being the Arkansas coach last year.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I've seen it proposed that Ty would be best-suited to either a military academy or an elite academic school (like a Vanderbilt or Rice). Given his personality and how he approaches coaching football, I tend to agree with that view.

Well, Wyoming is the sort of low-expectations place where if he just managed to win at all and make a bowl of any sort that fans would be thrilled.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Well, Wyoming is the sort of low-expectations place where if he just managed to win at all and make a bowl of any sort that fans would be thrilled.

What about Walker leaving UCLA and heading to Wyoming?

[DeToxRox]

Lane Kiffin seems suited for college ball. Reminds me of a young Jon Gruden. Not sure he will be the best coach ever, but I suspect he will recruit with the best of them. Plus with Kiffin, maybe someone gets Ed Orgeron as a DC. Oregeron is a recruiting guru, so that helps no doubt.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

What about Walker leaving UCLA and heading to Wyoming?

My gut says Walker will only leave for a BCS school, or a top, top non-BCS school (Boise State/BYU/Utah/etc.). Or for an NFL coordinator's job.

[tarcone]

Kirk Ferentz would look great at Washington or Wyoming. Clemson would work also.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

But if he had any west coast coaching and recruiting ties

Furthest west he's been is Michigan, so he would have to know people who now are west coast people for him to establish a base there. I still think he's a couple years away though. If, for whatever reason, RR can't turn around Michigan in a couple more years then I think there's going to be a mass movement for Michigan to see if he would go there because he's the absolute biggest no brainer to go there, but he was only at UC for one year when Carr stepped down. *sigh* All he had to do was wait one more year at CMU and he would be at Michigan instead of UC.

[Tyrith]

Muschamp was definitely hired in Austin with the full knowledge he is a one-year rent a coach. Mack Brown seems to do that with his D-coordinators, and it's worked out well for both us Longhorns and the coaches. I'd say he's a lock to get an HC job after this season is done.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Kirk Ferentz would look great at Washington or Wyoming. Clemson would work also.

no way.
wont happen
no chance in hell

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

no way.
wont happen
no chance in hell

Stop mincing words and tell us how you really feel.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

What about Walker leaving UCLA and heading to Wyoming?

The reason they went with a 1-AA guy for all of these years (and to be fair, he did win a bowl game, though mostly with another guy's players...) is because I think they knew he'd never leave. He won a title in D2, a 1-AA title and so they gave him the move up job of his life.

But his offense (Joe Glenn) is rudimentary and he hires his buddies that he's "familiar with" to run the offense. Defense is always their strong suit and even when they are awful, the defense usually knows how to get the job done (though not this year...from what I understand.)

In any case...I just think that, the AD isn't smart enough and there isn't enough money for them to go out and bring in a "real big name" unfortunately and just given the nature of the location and the conference, the only thing they can hope for is just an ambitious young guy to take the job and make it his own.

They've got outstanding facilities, just built a new practice facility and so, it's not bear bones and of course, in terms of support, they've got an entire state behind them as the only D-1A school in the entire state, so...you'd do worse for support at some directional state university elsewhere.

But I just think the sort of leadership it'd take to find the "right guy" at the "right time" is a little above their pay grade, if you will.

But I can always hold out for a surprise. I mean, Wyoming was on the Dennis Erickson coaching carnival back in the day.

[lordscarlet]

Three weeks ago I thought Al Groh was out the door, but it looks like he'll stick around after the past three games.

[MrBug708]

Mike Stoops saved his job at Arizona. Jeff Tedford is again exposed as a fraud of a coach but this wont be the season he loses his job

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

What about Walker leaving UCLA and heading to Wyoming?

Doubt it will happen. I think he'll be at UCLA next season because his defense hasn't been that great this season

[path12]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I think the UW is still an upper-echelon job if one looks in the longer-term, but short-term, it's a real challenge.

As a alum and lifetime fan I think so also, but I am not at all certain that is the reality for the rest of the nation.

Pat Hill would be my choice, mainly because I'm not convinced there are that many people who would want the job, plus I've been impressed with what he's been able to accomplish at Fresno.

[MrBug708]

Hill is an interesting candidate but for all he's done, he's never won his conference

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Mike Stoops saved his job at Arizona. Jeff Tedford is again exposed as a fraud of a coach but this wont be the season he loses his job

Really? A fraud?

Cal pre-Tedford:
- Went 16-39 under Tom Holmoe;
- Had not had a winning record in 9 years;
- Had not had back-to-back winning records in 11 years;
- Had not had 6 consecutive winning records in 50 years, since the last time Cal was consistently good under Pappy Waldorf;
- Was coming off a 1-10 season

Cal under Tedford:
- Has had a winning record and a bowl berth all 6 of his seasons, and will likely extend that streak to 7 this year;
- Turned around the program immediately, going from the 1-10 of his predecessor to 7-5 in his first season;
- Has a .659 winning percentage at Cal, far superior to any Cal coach since Pappy Waldorf retired in 1952

This makes him a fraud how?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Really? A fraud?

Cal pre-Tedford:
- Went 16-39 under Tom Holmoe;
- Had not had a winning record in 9 years;
- Had not had back-to-back winning records in 11 years;
- Had not had 6 consecutive winning records in 50 years, since the last time Cal was consistently good under Pappy Waldorf;
- Was coming off a 1-10 season

Cal under Tedford:
- Has had a winning record and a bowl berth all 6 of his seasons, and will likely extend that streak to 7 this year;
- Turned around the program immediately, going from the 1-10 of his predecessor to 7-5 in his first season;
- Has a .659 winning percentage at Cal, far superior to any Cal coach since Pappy Waldorf retired in 1952

This makes him a fraud how?

I tend to agree with you, dawg, but what I think Bug is getting at is that Teford's profile has been raised higher or glorified far beyond how good he actually is, and the underachieving squads (by national estimations) that he has been fielding the past three years or so are more of an indication of his true level as a coach. In that way, that he may not be another Urban Meyer or Gary Pinkel or Pete Carroll, he is a "fraud".

It's a bit silly, of course. Tedford is still a terrific coach, and what he has done at Cal is very impressive, given the history of that school. But I can sorta see what Bug is driving at.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I tend to agree with you, dawg, but what I think Bug is getting at is that Teford's profile has been raised higher or glorified far beyond how good he actually is, and the underachieving squads (by national estimations) that he has been fielding the past three years or so are more of an indication of his true level as a coach. In that way, that he may not be another Urban Meyer or Gary Pinkel or Pete Carroll, he is a "fraud".

It's a bit silly, of course. Tedford is still a terrific coach, and what he has done at Cal is very impressive, given the history of that school. But I can sorta see what Bug is driving at.

Tedford's star rose extremely fast due to the immediate turnaround he engineered, and the continued upward progress Cal made in his first 3 seasons. People naturally expected that upward trend to continue, and for Cal to be a team to battle with USC for conference supremacy. By that measure, yes - Tedford has disappointed. But only because he raised the bar at Cal so dramatically and so quickly.

Tedford isn't the best coach in college football. He's probably not the best coach in the Pac-10 (which has an awful lot of very good coaches right now). But he's still a damn fine coach; Cal is lucky to have him, and I'd do backflips if somehow the UW were able to lure him away (something I think is highly unlikely).

If Bug said "over-rated" instead of "fraud", he'd have a legitimate point.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Doubt it will happen. I think he'll be at UCLA next season because his defense hasn't been that great this season

That may be. I'll use this post as a jumping-off point on something that I find interesting - that is, how so many people judge the head-coaching prospects of a coordinator based on how their groups perform.

Obviously it's hard to take a coordinator too seriously as a head coaching candidate if his squads don't perform well. That said, it's also a very limited measure of how good a coach you are. Consider:

- As a coordinator, you still have to defer to the head coach; certainly in some situations coordinators are given autonomy by the head coach to run their group, but this is the exception to the rule. UCLA fans are likely aware that, under Neuheisel, Walker runs his defenses a bit differently then he did under Dorrell, based off of the directives Neuheisel has given Walker. As such, it's hard to always know how much credit (or blame) to assign a coordinator if their head coach is influencing their decision-making.

- As a coordinator, you work with what you have. In other words, a very talented coach may not get great results if the players he has to work with simply aren't very good, or if his squad suffers a number of crippling injuries.

- As a coordinator, you don't necessarily get a say on the assistants working under you. Let's say as a defensive coordinator, you have a guy coaching the d-line who just isn't cutting it anymore, and as a result, you consistently have poor d-line play. Kind of makes it hard to field a strong defense when that's the case.

Let's also consider that the qualities that make up a good head coach are not necessarily the same qualities that make up a good coordinator. The head coach is really an executive position, and is as much about having good decision-making in who you hire to work for you as it is having a keen understanding of X's and O's. It's also about managing an entire staff and being the leader of the entire team, not just one half of it.

So to come back around to the original jumping off point, is DeWayne Walker really any less of a coach now than he was at this point last year? Yes, his defense has struggled more this year than his first 2 years at UCLA, but how much of that is his ability, how much is due to the influence of Neuheisel, and how much of it is due to declines in the talent he has to work with?

If I'm a program in the market for a new head coach for '09, I'd have Walker on my list of guys to investigate and possibly interview.

[MrBug708]

Chief said it rather well. But Tedford has lived way to long after one solid win over USC when Hershal Dennis lost the ball at the one yard line. Tedford had a remarkable turnaround for Cal, no doubt and they are fortunate in a way to have him. But for all he's done, he's teams never live up to their hype (as Chief said). It's been what, 4 years since they were able to beat USC and what have they accomplished? They have replaced UCLA as the PAC-10's worst second half team.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

That may be. I'll use this post as a jumping-off point on something that I find interesting - that is, how so many people judge the head-coaching prospects of a coordinator based on how their groups perform.

Obviously it's hard to take a coordinator too seriously as a head coaching candidate if his squads don't perform well. That said, it's also a very limited measure of how good a coach you are. Consider:

- As a coordinator, you still have to defer to the head coach; certainly in some situations coordinators are given autonomy by the head coach to run their group, but this is the exception to the rule. UCLA fans are likely aware that, under Neuheisel, Walker runs his defenses a bit differently then he did under Dorrell, based off of the directives Neuheisel has given Walker. As such, it's hard to always know how much credit (or blame) to assign a coordinator if their head coach is influencing their decision-making.

- As a coordinator, you work with what you have. In other words, a very talented coach may not get great results if the players he has to work with simply aren't very good, or if his squad suffers a number of crippling injuries.

- As a coordinator, you don't necessarily get a say on the assistants working under you. Let's say as a defensive coordinator, you have a guy coaching the d-line who just isn't cutting it anymore, and as a result, you consistently have poor d-line play. Kind of makes it hard to field a strong defense when that's the case.

Let's also consider that the qualities that make up a good head coach are not necessarily the same qualities that make up a good coordinator. The head coach is really an executive position, and is as much about having good decision-making in who you hire to work for you as it is having a keen understanding of X's and O's. It's also about managing an entire staff and being the leader of the entire team, not just one half of it.

So to come back around to the original jumping off point, is DeWayne Walker really any less of a coach now than he was at this point last year? Yes, his defense has struggled more this year than his first 2 years at UCLA, but how much of that is his ability, how much is due to the influence of Neuheisel, and how much of it is due to declines in the talent he has to work with?

If I'm a program in the market for a new head coach for '09, I'd have Walker on my list of guys to investigate and possibly interview.

You make some good points here about Walker. Part of the reason he came to UCLA and stayed at UCLA is that he more or less has total control over the defense. Sure Dorrell and Neu call the shots ultimately, but I think they defer to what Walker says. The team is thin on talent at a lot of skin positions because of the shoddy job Dorrell did early on in his recruiting. Walker's first year was limited because UCLA had 11/12 scholarships total to offer so they were picky and had to pass on a lot of solid guys that would have been useful. This freshmen class is great, but again, just freshmen. Solid LB'ers, a DE/DT, and a great secondary class. I think that if Walker gets the UW job, he leaves. I could also see him taking a few small conference positions if the feel is right (FSU is Hill leaves, for example; but not SDSU when that position opens up). I know he'd love to go back to Minnesota, but I think that job would be three years before it opens up if that's the case. Or he could leave for the NFL

[timmynausea]

Anybody think Mike Leach may be moving on after this year? I guess at 8-0 his stock might be at its highest point right now. I'm not even sure where he'd fit in, but the guy is an offensive genius and has done very well at Tech.

[dawgfan]

I don't know what to think about Leach. He's obviously got a fantastic offensive mind and he's doing very well at Tech. But it seems like everyone always throws in the caveat that Leach has an "odd" personality and may not "fit in" at other places.

I'm not doubting it, I'm more curious exactly what his personality is like that makes him potentially off-putting to other schools?

[dawgfan]

Also, I want to discuss Kiffin some more since his name is getting thrown around a lot with regards to the UW job.

Personally, I'm not overly impressed with Kiffin. I've read reports that he's an incredibly arrogant, self-centered SOB that doesn't get on well with his fellow coaches. I've also heard that Sarkisian was the guy that really ran the USC offense when Chow left. And it's been speculated that part of Kiffin's rise in the coaching ranks was due to favors being called in by his dad. And while everyone knows the Raiders are a mess and Al Davis is a loon, how did Kiffin distinguish himself from the last year of Callahan, the Norv Turner years and Art Shell's return?

On the other hand, he's described as extremely smart in X's and O's, and as a pretty good recruiter (even considering he was recruiting for USC at their peak, he pulled in a number of national recruits).

Anyone else want to chime in on Kiffin?

[CU Tiger]

I think the Kiffin era shows strong improvement in Oakland.
He has been in Clemson supposedly and interviewed, I dont see him fitting in here. And AD Phillips all but confirmed it with a comment he made the other day about it being hard for an LA guy to recruit in living rooms in th Deep South.

[DeToxRox]

Kiffin was in a no win situation in Oakland. I wasn't impressed with him at USC but that coud've been Sarskian. When he got to Oakland he made that offense go with not that much talent and a young QB.

He seems to have a Gruden like personality. I suspect he could be a great recruiter and from his time in the NFL, he seems better at Xs and Os then Mora, imo.

Plus, I am an Oregeron guy and I am not sure their history, but you could maybe see Oregeron on as a DC and he can flat out recruit.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Plus, I am an Oregeron guy...

Hey! Just like Joey Harrington!

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Hey! Just like Joey Harrington!

You son of a bitch.

[sooner333]

I doubt Mike Leach interviews well, but at some point, a school is going to say "Hey, not only is he putting up wins and stats, but he's recruiting athletes to Lubbock, Texas." I think it would be a great hire, but it would require the right fit. He's not going to fit well in a big media market, but I think a school such as Clemson might work. I think Leach would leave after this year. He tried to get the Miami job a couple of years ago, but, as I recall, the internet didn't go so well.

But, at the same time, Leach won't go anywhere if he isn't given freedom to do whatever the hell he wants as far as football goes. He's pretty quirky and wouldn't put up with people not wanting to do things his way.

[Poli]

Take Phil Fulmer, please.

[QuikSand]

If you all are taking requests, cam we get someone to take the wheel up in Syracuse, please?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Poli

Take Phil Fulmer, please.

Heck, he's already used to orange, it's perfect.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

If you all are taking requests, cam we get someone to take the wheel up in Syracuse, please?

Dear G-Rob,

Please don't leave me!

Signed,
Dave W

[dawgfan]

Syracuse is showing an amazing amount of patience with Robinson. I feel for 'Cuse fans - you guys deserve better.