PING: WVU fans .. a serious Q

[DeToxRox]

This WVU/CU game is going into OT, but the whole final drive was a mess. From what I have seen, Stewart is in way over his head. How're you guys liking this staff and everything going on with them?

I know UM is struggling but I've been happy with Rich, but it seems like the WVU Nation is nearing meltdown status.

[Rich1033]

I know that both the WVU scout and rivals sites are going down in flames. Im also curious to see how rational fans are thinking.

[VPI97]

That clock management was painful to watch. I don't think it mattered much, though...the WVU coaching staff seems to be allergic to calling any play tonight that features the new fangled forward pass.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

I know that both the WVU scout and rivals sites are going down in flames. Im also curious to see how rational fans are thinking.

Yeah. That is why I asked the guys here and not on Rivals because Swaggs and Timmy, amongst others, have always been solid discussing WVU.

[DeToxRox]

Oohhh boy. Well, this will be interesting.

[VPI97]

I thought Stewart was a solid choice just from a stability standpoint, but I don't think he has the slightest clue about how to run that offense. Yeah, they still come out in the spread formation and run spread plays, but the playcalling shows a complete lack of understanding as to what RichRod had been doing there.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Yeah, they still come out in the spread formation and run spread rushing plays

Fixed that for ya

[Swaggs]

I think we were all hopeful that Coach Stew had a good enough staff in place to make the transition an easy one. To be honest, I feel like the new offensive coordinator (Jeff Mullin) is, without doubt, in over his head. He's added motion to the offense, which is apparently only really good if a QB has an amazing ability to read defenses (and those are pretty much only NFL veteran QBs) and he is running out of the freaking I formation when we have a FB that cannot block and we have run out of the shotgun for all of the White (and pretty much all of the Rodriguez) years. The fact that Mullin and Stewart have figured out a way to screw up an offense that returns White/Devine/top 7 OL is beyond belief to me.

I expected the defense to have growing pains, but I am shocked that the offense has been so impotent.

If we lose more than 2 more games this year (which is an attainable, but pretty lofty goal), I think Stew should go. Probably irrational and unrealistic, but this team should have been able to survive on its offense while the defense grew. If we are having games where we score 3 or 14 points with all of that returning talent in place, I don't see much room for improvement in the near future. The Stewart hire was a caretaker role, not a rebuild, and right now he is failing miserably.

[timmynausea]

I think we have a good staff, but I don't know about Stewart at this point. I did have concerns about Stew running the show, and it looks like he either isn't cut out for it or the staff hasn't quite meshed yet. I almost think he delegates so much responsibility to the coordinators that he has been hesitant to take control. He looks lost when things are going bad, and I think the team reflects that by panicking some. These past 2 weeks have just looked like a lack of leadership on the field (ECU mostly) and on the sideline (tonight and ECU).

When it comes down to it, the loss today was still more a lack of execution than anything else. The line got whipped on a bunch of third and shorts and that along with horribly timed penalties (90 yards or so) was the difference. I guess you could throw in the fumble that set up CU's second TD as well. I know without even looking we rushed for well over 200 and to turn that into just 14 is just a lack of execution at crucial points.

I still like Mullen's offense for the long term. They went back to the run tonight too exclusively after passing too much the first two weeks, but I still think mixing the best of Wake's offense with the best of RR's is a good idea once it comes together. The lineman still aren't good enough power blockers for as much as we've mixed that in, but it'll just take some time. The defense really let us down at ECU, but they bounced back after the first two drives tonight. I still think it will all come together. We've got Marshall and Syracuse up next so there is a chance to get things right.

[Vegas Vic]

That was a solid win for Colorado, who now appears to be the 2nd best team in the Big XII North.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think we were all hopeful that Coach Stew had a good enough staff in place to make the transition an easy one. To be honest, I feel like the new offensive coordinator (Jeff Mullin) is, without doubt, in over his head. He's added motion to the offense, which is apparently only really good if a QB has an amazing ability to read defenses (and those are pretty much only NFL veteran QBs) and he is running out of the freaking I formation when we have a FB that cannot block and we have run out of the shotgun for all of the White (and pretty much all of the Rodriguez) years. The fact that Mullin and Stewart have figured out a way to screw up an offense that returns White/Devine/top 7 OL is beyond belief to me.

I still think the problem is transitioning the role of the oline. This the third line coach in 3 years. Both Frey and Johnson let the kids get heavier, the latter so we could mix in more power blocking, but these guys are still best at zone. So they still aren't any good at power (see the two fails on 3rd and 1) and the weight gain only hurts them at zone blocking - it's been a lose-lose.

It doesn't matter what the OC calls when the line is getting blown up like they were at ECU. Tonight, I do wish we would've just lined up in the spread and let Pat go win the game for us on those 3rd and 1s. I like Jock, but I want the ball in Pat or Noel's hands in either spot.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

That was a solid win for Colorado, who now appears to be the 2nd best team in the Big XII North.

This is a good point for folks like me to consider, as well.

Colorado may end up being an 8 or 9 win team. East Carolina may be a double digit team.

If that is the case and we lost to pretty good teams, I may still come around. But, I am still pretty damn disgusted with whoever (between Stew and Mullen) called the plays out of the I on 3rd and 4th and short. It makes sense if you have some familiarity with the formation and/or a FB that is not a matador, but when you have Pat White and Noel Devine on the same field at the same time, let them run the option read or let White bootleg out with the option of a short pass or him pulling it up and running.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

He's added motion to the offense, which is apparently only really good if a QB has an amazing ability to read defenses (and those are pretty much only NFL veteran QBs)

Motion can be used to figure out coverage and etc, but we are mostly using it to confuse the defense and set up misdirection plays. It's basically window dressing, and definitely not the real problem on offense. The only possible issue - there's been some talk about motioning guys drawing defenders into lanes that would've been open for Pat/Noel in the past, and I guess that could be true.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Motion can be used to figure out coverage and etc, but we are mostly using it to confuse the defense and set up misdirection plays. It's basically window dressing, and definitely not the real problem on offense. The only possible issue - there's been some talk about motioning guys drawing defenders into lanes that would've been open for Pat/Noel in the past, and I guess that could be true.

Well, the other thing (and not to be mean to our boys) is that we know that some college players are not the greatest students of the game and/or the most intelligent guys in the world. If they are thinking about different aspects of motion (when do I leave/when is the man in motion set/where to I go/etc), they may not be thinking about some of the more fundamental aspects of the game. Right now, I don't see many positives in using it, beyond simply gaining experience in its use.

I hope you're right, but since we first began to hear about the use of motion, I have always been concerned with how it might affect us penalty and assignment-wise. Like you said, I think it is merely window dressing at best, with it perhaps being somewhat harmful.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Well, the other thing (and not to be mean to our boys) is that we know that some college players are not the greatest students of the game and/or the most intelligent guys in the world. If they are thinking about different aspects of motion (when do I leave/when is the man in motion set/where to I go/etc), they may not be thinking about some of the more fundamental aspects of the game. Right now, I don't see many positives in using it, beyond simply gaining experience in its use.

I hope you're right, but since we first began to hear about the use of motion, I have always been concerned with how it might affect us penalty and assignment-wise. Like you said, I think it is merely window dressing at best, with it perhaps being somewhat harmful.

That's true. Really most of our penalties were WRs blocking tonight, though. I don't think we were that far off tonight. If we still had Owen Schmitt to plow over someone on 3rd (or 4th) and 1 we might've won by 2 TDs.

[timmynausea]

I looked it up. WVU rushed for 306. We just couldn't get it done on third down.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

let White bootleg out with the option of a short pass or him pulling it up and running.

Last game they were so dominated, but this week I feel that would have made a huge difference. I've seen him do it over and over the last few years on 3rd downs and be very very successful. The turd down play calls made me sick tonight.

[fantom1979]

I missed the game (Shrimp Fest at Red Lobster, gotta have priorities), but I was rather surprised to see that we scored 14 points with 250+ yards rushing. Thanks for this thread, without it I would have been scratching my head trying to figure out what happened.

[Buccaneer]

Seeing WVU lose made my week.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Seeing WVU lose made my week.

The bar is pretty low for making a Syracuse fan's week at this point. At least basketball is just around the corner. Boheim's going for the NIT 3peat.

[timmynausea]

Just a final thought on the game last night - WVU was 0 for 5 last night on 3rd and 2 or less. That could be the difference between scoring 35 and scoring 14.

Beyond that, it's been a long long time since a WVU RB broke a big run by hitting the hole and cutting it back. It was all we did in 2005 and 2006, and outside of maybe one Devine sweep in the Fiesta Bowl, I don't remember it happening since late 2006. When we had Mozes at C (and Trickett coaching) we consistently had lineman getting to the 2nd level and hitting the MLB. That is what set up all those 50+ yard Slaton runs - hit the hole and cut it back to where the MLB was supposed to be. Our line just looks slow now.

[gstelmack]

As a South Florida fan, the struggles of West Virginia, Louisville, and Rutgers spell BCS Bowl to me...

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

As a South Florida fan, the struggles of West Virginia, Louisville, and Rutgers spell BCS Bowl to me...

The Bulls have a great chance, but I think this could be a year where everyone beats up on each other. Louisville looked like they found an awesome back in Victor Anderson (who flipped from a WVU commit late) and I think they'll really start to come around after that KSU win. WVU has a weak upcoming schedule and a chance to get things corrected before the meat of the Big East schedule. Cincinnati may have actually been USF's toughest competition, but their QB is out for several weeks.

I think it'll be a crazy year in the Big East.

[st.cronin]

The Big East has been picked on quite a bit in recent years, unfairly I think. This year, however, it really does look to be a pretty bad conference.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

The bar is pretty low for making a Syracuse fan's week at this point. At least basketball is just around the corner. Boheim's going for the NIT 3peat.

The only thing that pissed me off this week was reading about the Nike incursion on the new Ernie Davis statue. Other than that, it was soooo great seeing WVU get beat by both ECU and CU.

[Abe Sargent]

I was never happy with the Stewart hire in the first place. Bring in Grobe!

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The Big East has been picked on quite a bit in recent years, unfairly I think. This year, however, it really does look to be a pretty bad conference.

The Big East does look bad, but I am surprised by how some of the other conferences are also looking pretty crappy. The Big Ten is looking rather low this year. Ohio State got ran by USC and Michigan is a shell of its former self. Penn State, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Minnesota are the only ones unscathed so far.

In the Pac 10, only USC is still undefeated.

In the ACC, Wake Forest is the only defeated team.

The Big 12, SEC, and ummm the Mountain West are looking pretty good so far.

[st.cronin]

fwiw, Football Frontier's ranking of conferences:

1. Big Ten
1. SEC
3. Big 12
4. Mountain West
5. Big East
6. Pac 10
7. ACC

[Butter]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

The Big East does look bad, but I am surprised by how some of the other conferences are also looking pretty crappy. The Big Ten is looking rather low this year. Ohio State got ran by USC and Michigan is a shell of its former self. Penn State, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Minnesota are the only ones unscathed so far.

In the Pac 10, only USC is still undefeated.

In the ACC, Wake Forest is the only defeated team.

The Big 12, SEC, and ummm the Mountain West are looking pretty good so far.

The Big Ten is much improved this year. Ohio State has come back to the pack a bit, while Penn State, Wisconsin, and Illinois all look to be legitimate top 25 teams. Should be a fun season.

[Atocep]

I'm typing this up without being able to see the game against Marshall today because ESPN doesn't offer ESPN 360 to comcast customers.



I'm not sold on Bill Stewart, but I think this team was largely over-hyped coming into this season. The defense is almost entirely new and although the offense returns several key players they're dealing with an overhaul to the coaching staff, a change in philosophy, and the loss of Reynaud, Schmitt and Slaton.

I agree with Timmy that long term this coaching staff has the potential to do some fantastic things. Pat White has been the offense for the past 3+ years now and we don't have another Pat White ready to step in when he graduates. Pat is such an incredible college quarterback and he's impossible to replace, so going to an offense that is a fit for quarterbacks not named Pat White is the way to go when thinking long-term, IMO.

The most troubling thing I've seen so far this season is the confusion that seems to be coming from the sideline at times during games. I hope its a matter of Bill Stewart needing experience handling certain situations that he hasn't had to deal with in the past, but its impossible to say either way right now. I believe that even with Rich Rodriguez this team is no better than 2-1 at this point and with some bad breaks they'd be sitting right where they are now. I don't think its a knock on RR or an attempt to cover for Bill Stewart, just an honest assessment of this team's talent and the opponents they've face so far.

[Atocep]

Dola

With all that said, a loss to Marshall today and Bill Stewart and his staff should probably start working on their resumes.

[Atocep]

Fun thread to bump. Not to pick on Michigan while they're down, though. Instead, to point out that Stew and the staff really grew this year.

From an offensive standpoint last year was rough with Pat White never asked to make more than 1 read in the read option scheme and the line recruited and taught to zone block, but they pulled out a 9-4 season that, looking back, was about as good as you could have expected.

This year the offense started off really well and showed that Mullen (the OC) wants to throw the ball down the field. However, the OLine was terrible, Jarrett Brown is mistake-prone, and the Jarrett Brown also suffered a fairly bad concussion against Marshall. So in the 2nd half of the season the playcalling got scaled back quite a bit and looked like very unimaginative. Those that saw the team play early, though, saw flashes of what Mullen has in mind.

Stew's clock management and in-game coaching improved vastly this year. Still not perfect, but it's at the point where it isn't something that will hold the team back at all.

As far as recruiting goes, WVU has never been better. Stew is one of the best closers in the country and Doc Holiday along with Chris Beatty are 2 of the best recruiters out there. The entire staff recruits well. A top 25 class last year and the possibility of a mid-teens class remains for this year. That would be the highest rated class in WVU history and the first time WVU has had back to back top 25 classes.

The staff may see some turnover this year. Beatty was reportedly offered a job on the Va Tech staff last year and passed on it because he says he wants to see his first class through. He's good friends with Mike London, though, and if he gets the job at UVA then he may be interested in making a move. Doc Holiday is holding out for a head coaching job and Casteel seems content where he is unless a head coaching job comes his way.

Next year Geno takes over at QB and he should be an upgrade immediately over what JB did this year. The offensive line returns 4 starters, but the interior guys were so bad the 5 freshman that were redshirted may push them for playing time. I believe the defense loses just two starters and should see some much needed depth on the DLine. WVU should be a bit better next year, especially on offense, so I have to say I like the direction Stew has the program headed in.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Fun thread to bump. Not to pick on Michigan while they're down, though. Instead, to point out that Stew and the staff really grew this year.

From an offensive standpoint last year was rough with Pat White never asked to make more than 1 read in the read option scheme and the line recruited and taught to zone block, but they pulled out a 9-4 season that, looking back, was about as good as you could have expected.

This year the offense started off really well and showed that Mullen (the OC) wants to throw the ball down the field. However, the OLine was terrible, Jarrett Brown is mistake-prone, and the Jarrett Brown also suffered a fairly bad concussion against Marshall. So in the 2nd half of the season the playcalling got scaled back quite a bit and looked like very unimaginative. Those that saw the team play early, though, saw flashes of what Mullen has in mind.

Stew's clock management and in-game coaching improved vastly this year. Still not perfect, but it's at the point where it isn't something that will hold the team back at all.

As far as recruiting goes, WVU has never been better. Stew is one of the best closers in the country and Doc Holiday along with Chris Beatty are 2 of the best recruiters out there. The entire staff recruits well. A top 25 class last year and the possibility of a mid-teens class remains for this year. That would be the highest rated class in WVU history and the first time WVU has had back to back top 25 classes.

The staff may see some turnover this year. Beatty was reportedly offered by VA Tech last year to take and passed on it because he says he wants to see his first class through. He's good friends with Mike London, though, and if he gets the job at UVA then he may be interested in making a move. Doc Holiday is holding out for a head coaching job and Casteel seems content where he is unless a head coaching job comes his way.

Next year Geno takes over at QB and he should be an upgrade immediately over what JB did this year. The offensive line returns 4 starters, but the interior guys were so bad the 5 freshman that were redshirted may push them for playing time. I believe the defense loses just two starters and should see some much needed depth on the DLine. WVU should be a bit better next year, especially on offense, so I have to say I like the direction Stew has the program headed in.

WVU for sure improved. I've been impressed. Stew has them maintaining but I still wonder if he can get them over the hump or he's just the gatekeeper until the next guy gets it done if that makes sense?

Michigan, well, next year Rich better win or we'll be reliving the coaching search nightmare all over again.

[Karlifornia]

I saw the title of this thread and didn't know if it was going to be about basketball or football. Then I realized both of those WVU coaches left for Michigan. That's kind of neat.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I saw the title of this thread and didn't know if it was going to be about basketball or football. Then I realized both of those WVU coaches left for Michigan. That's kind of neat.

One left professionally and with the love of WVU fans (John) and the other didn't. (Rich)