New football game from Solecismic this fall? (Not what you want, but what you THINK.)

Ben E Lou · 08-05-2008, 04:24 AM

The regular season starts exactly one month from yesterday, and preseason is here. College football is just a little over three weeks away. What do you think is or isn't coming from Solecismic?

Logan · 08-05-2008, 05:42 AM

I think I'll see more misleading thread titles.

Ben E Lou · 08-05-2008, 05:46 AM

Heh. Max thread title length issue there. I'll try to see if I can re-word it...

Raiders Army · 08-05-2008, 06:37 AM

Na da.

Ben E Lou · 08-05-2008, 07:50 AM

Both of these polls have a purpose, fyi. I'm doing an article next week, and one thing that I intend to talk about is the lack of any buzz on football sims compared to several months ago when some were discussing the possibility of there being four new football games this fall.

gottimd · 08-05-2008, 07:52 AM

A steaming pile of nothing.

Subby · 08-05-2008, 08:01 AM

Silence from Ann Arbor indicates to me that a game is in the works. My guess is TCY, but that is based on nothing more than it being in the most need of an update.

CraigSca · 08-05-2008, 08:03 AM

I'd love a TCY2, but I'm learning not to get my hopes up. I'm therefore voiting for "nothing".

Passacaglia · 08-05-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Silence from Ann Arbor indicates to me that a game is in the works. My guess is TCY, but that is based on nothing more than it being in the most need of an update.

My thoughts, too. But that could be because that's what I want.

stevew · 08-05-2008, 08:12 AM

Solecismic presents War! The card game.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-05-2008, 08:18 AM

I think and hope that an improved version of FOF will come out.

cuervo72 · 08-05-2008, 08:20 AM

*shurg*

Dunno. Haven't given it much thought, really. Could FOF use an upgrade? Sure, I guess, though it's generally good for my purposes (multiplayer), quirks and all. TCY sounds nice, but I didn't play the first and honestly, I play so few games now (heck, Civ IV is still on the back burner behind the time sink that is CoH) that I can't see playing TCY2. I might lean there though for my guess.

Chubby · 08-05-2008, 08:24 AM

As much as I'm hoping for some sort of football game to be announced I'm not holding my breath

Kodos · 08-05-2008, 08:25 AM

I guessed nothing, but would rather see a new TCY. I'm not eager to go through another conversion to a new version of FOF in my online league.

Joe · 08-05-2008, 09:11 AM

TCY: The Card Game.

Chubby · 08-05-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

I guessed nothing, but would rather see a new TCY. I'm not eager to go through another conversion to a new version of FOF in my online league.

Why? It's not like you have to do anything

I personally see a patch/roster update for FOF coming. Anything other than that and I'd be surprised (but pleased)

Kodos · 08-05-2008, 10:03 AM

I feel like I have an adequate grasp of FOF 2007 at this point. Having to adjust to the new chutes and ladders or whatever doesn't sound fun.

RedKingGold · 08-05-2008, 10:07 AM

Surprisingly, I think it will be FOF7. While a strong part of me thinks it'll be TCY2 (just because it's been so long since an update), I also think that maybe professional football > college football for Jim.

TCY has had nary an updated schedule patch, whereas FOF has received frequent updates. Also, the focus on his Football Frontier website seemed to be more professional football based.

I guess the bigger question is whether future FOF will continute to have multiplayer support. There is a bigger part of me that thinks that FOF MP might go the way of the dodo.

RedKingGold · 08-05-2008, 10:10 AM

No matter what, I think we're going to see something if only because Jim needs a new revenue stream for well-being.

path12 · 08-05-2008, 10:32 AM

Guessed TCY2, but don't think I'm much interested in it. I never did enjoy TCY1.

Bad-example · 08-05-2008, 10:56 AM

I voted for a new FOF, more from hope than anything else. I thought TCY sucked, mainly because it is nigh on impossible to make an entertaining career sports sim where your entire roster is turned over every 4-5 years.

Wishing more than anything that Jim would spend some of his valuable development time creating an interface that is full-screen friendly.

spleen1015 · 08-05-2008, 11:03 AM

Jim has always moved to the beat of his own drummer. For all we know he'll make a Guitar Hero sim.

sabotai · 08-05-2008, 01:36 PM

TCY2. If I remember correctly, Jim said that he was working on updating both games for awhile, and then shifted all of his work towards FOF2007. Not sure how much work he did on an updated TCY before working fully on FOF2007, but I doubt he intends to let that work go to waste.

Antmeister · 08-05-2008, 01:45 PM

As much as I would like to see TCY2, I doubt there will be anything out for this year. I'd say that there is most likely going to be something released next year. Unless he had been working on TCY off and on over the years, it is going to be quite a bit of an overhaul and will take a while. And because of the other game he worked on recently, I don't expect anything for FOF, except maybe a patch of some sort, but even then I don't expect that before football season starts. So I opted for nothing.

rkmsuf · 08-05-2008, 01:51 PM

Ha. What is going to happen by design is everybody votes nothing, a game is released in a month, the big cuddle hero is celebrated on high and all the fans wank it like Charles Haley.

MIJB#19 · 08-05-2008, 02:04 PM

Although I voted for that "nothing" option, the FOF7 option doesn't sound all that unlikely. I'm not expecting it to happen, but it wouldn't be coming out of nowhere either.

Dutch · 08-05-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Jim has always moved to the beat of his own drummer. For all we know he'll make a Guitar Hero sim.

Actually, it's--"Jim has always moved to the beat of his own drum."

He fired the drummer in 1998.

RomaGoth · 08-05-2008, 05:14 PM

I would like to see the TCY2 as well, but not holding my breath.

Disappointed in no "trout" option though.

Pyser · 08-05-2008, 08:01 PM

i hope its fof7, and i hope its actually stripped down from the last version. that was just too...big...for lack of a better word. when i play, i still play 2k4.

General Mike · 08-05-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I would like to see the TCY2 as well, but not holding my breath.

Ditto. It's been so long since we got anything TCY related, that I would love a new version.

Izulde · 08-05-2008, 09:54 PM

I think there would have to be a major overhaul for FOF for a new version to be successful. SP loses its challenge after a while and I don't know how large the MP community really is, nor do I think a very large percentage would want to switch over without seeing a massive update.

I voted nothing and I believe that's what's going to happen.

If, however, there is a release, I'd expect it to be TCY2. Enough years have gone by that -any- new release should generate considerable buzz and sales, particularly if there's noticeable differences from the original.

Raiders Army · 08-05-2008, 09:58 PM

Considering TCY was released in the early 2000s and the last update was 2004, I'd say that there should be some noticeable differences from the original if a new version were to be released.

Even so, I wonder if it would be FOF 2007-ized or if it would truly be a revolutionary product. The problem with FOF and EA Sports' games (can't believe I'm lumping them in together) is that they're evolutionary instead of revolutionary. I can understand the reason why. Hey, if it was my family that had to eat I'm not sure I would take too many chances either.

cartman · 08-05-2008, 10:00 PM

If Jim were able to introduce the 2D game viewer that he has hinted at in the past, that would be a pretty big change to the product.

AlexB · 08-06-2008, 02:55 AM

I don't think we'll see anything this year, purely because of the Developers Corner sub-forum. This is a great idea, but a long-term process - discussion and development, and seems strange to have had two threads and then release a new game which clearly must have been developed before the forum discussion.

My guess is that Jim will put out a roster update with a couple of gameplay tweaks to FOF this year, and then a new game of some form next year, aided by 12 months of development discussion.

Balldog · 08-06-2008, 05:23 AM

Despite the communities support for TCY2 I can't believe he hasn't made it yet.

Has he ever said why he hasn't?

marcmoustache · 08-06-2008, 08:22 AM

I think we could have a patch to 2k7 that dealt with some of the end of half/game, hurry up issues, plus maybe a change to gameplanning.

molson · 08-06-2008, 09:25 AM

I just hope he doesn't hold off on a roster update/patch just because of the anticipated backlash here of not having a new game.

kingnebwsu · 08-06-2008, 10:43 AM

Voted FOF 7. Though if he released TCY 2 I would probably send him a check for $50 as thanks (nudge nudge Jim

)

RedHawk00 · 08-06-2008, 01:18 PM

call me cheap, but i hope nothing, because i dont want to have to buy another game...

wade moore · 08-06-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

Despite the communities support for TCY2 I can't believe he hasn't made it yet.

Has he ever said why he hasn't?

If I remember correctly (guess I should look) when this has been polled the facts do not back up your assertion.

wade moore · 08-06-2008, 02:38 PM

Dola:

I stand corrected - Curious If Opinions Have Changed. What do YOU want to see next from Solecismic? - Front Office Football Central

gottimd · 08-06-2008, 02:41 PM

Well I thought before FOF2k7 was released he mentioned on his site that he was updating one (patch) and putting out another version of the other. I assume that the version was FOF2k7 and he would be patching TCY or at this point releasing another version of it?

If its TCY, my money will be safe in my pocket until Duckman tries to steal it. If its another version of FOF, I'd definitely buy it.

Anthony · 08-06-2008, 04:16 PM

i don't see anything that TCY2 would give me that i couldn't get in some form from NCAA '09. the recruiting is more fun in NCAA and i don't have to worry about managing the time of my players ("this week i'm allocating 2 hours for you to see your girlfriend, Johnny") and can have a multiplayer dynasty.

i also just don't like the college game that much. i don't like not being able to follow my favorite players for anything more than 4, 5 years tops. you can't have long term planning in college football, there's no "i'll draft this guy as a 5th round project and hope he develops in about 3 or 4 years so that he can contribute for about 4 or 5 years after that".

Cringer · 08-06-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

i don't see anything that TCY2 would give me that i couldn't get in some form from NCAA '09. the recruiting is more fun in NCAA and i don't have to worry about managing the time of my players ("this week i'm allocating 2 hours for you to see your girlfriend, Johnny") and can have a multiplayer dynasty.

i also just don't like the college game that much. i don't like not being able to follow my favorite players for anything more than 4, 5 years tops. you can't have long term planning in college football, there's no "i'll draft this guy as a 5th round project and hope he develops in about 3 or 4 years so that he can contribute for about 4 or 5 years after that".

Well yes, if he released the exact same game and called it TCY 2 that would be pretty crappy. I would think after 6 or 7 years (whatever it has been) he would make some changes.

MizzouRah · 08-06-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Silence from Ann Arbor indicates to me that a game is in the works. My guess is TCY, but that is based on nothing more than it being in the most need of an update.

My thoughts as well.. I believe he would gain much more money with a TCY 2.

I'm more interested in Head Coach for my football fix this year, but TCY 2 would have me interested. Ha.. never would have said that in the past.

Capital · 08-06-2008, 07:48 PM

I voted a new FOF in the other poll so I see to reason to change here. That being said, I would expect a new game of some sort this fall. It's been 2 years since a gaming release.

stevew · 08-07-2008, 10:04 PM

I think we'll finally see an update to tcy. Seems like it is about that time. I probably won't buy it just cause I'm not a big fan of the college game.

I think we may see a minor upgrade to fof2k7 as well. Rosters and maybe a few minor fixes

CraigSca · 08-07-2008, 10:13 PM

I would love to see a TCY2. I'd buy two copies - one for each foot.

Godzilla Blitz · 08-07-2008, 11:48 PM

TCY sure has become the forgotten sister, locked up in the closet of neglect. Time to let her out, fix up her hair, give her a breast job, buy her some cheap wine, and let her out on the town.

I was going to say that I'd bet the next game will take two years to develop, so there won't be anything released this year, then someone posted that it's been two years since Jim's last sports game release. Holy crap. Did I fall asleep for a year or something? Having kids sure screws up your sense of time I guess.

So now I don't know. I always think that Jani's Shorts makes good points, and what he says makes sense to me, but you've got to believe that Jim won't go two years without releasing something. He's got to eat, right?

But if he was messing with that card game, then perhaps he hasn't spent much time on either TCY or FOF, and he surely won't release something if it's not ready. I guess it depends on the scope of changes he's making, which I assume will be large for the next release. If he feels the need to release something this year, perhaps it'll be a small, transitional tweak of FOF. So yeah, that's what I'll go with.

Ben E Lou · 08-10-2008, 09:12 PM

Thanks for your participation and comments. The OS article is finished (pending final editing), and will be published this week.

View Poll Results: What football title do you think we'll see from Solecismic this fall?
FOF7	17	10.43%
TCY2	48	29.45%
No new game, but a roster update for FOF6	39	23.93%
Nothing new that's football-related.	59	36.20%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

08-05-2008, 05:46 AM	#3
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Heh. Max thread title length issue there. I'll try to see if I can re-word it... __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

08-05-2008, 07:50 AM	#5
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Both of these polls have a purpose, fyi. I'm doing an article next week, and one thing that I intend to talk about is the lack of any buzz on football sims compared to several months ago when some were discussing the possibility of there being four new football games this fall. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! Last edited by Ben E Lou : 08-05-2008 at 07:51 AM.

08-05-2008, 07:52 AM	#6
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	A steaming pile of nothing. __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

08-05-2008, 08:01 AM	#7
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Silence from Ann Arbor indicates to me that a game is in the works. My guess is TCY, but that is based on nothing more than it being in the most need of an update. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

08-05-2008, 05:42 AM	#2
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I think I'll see more misleading thread titles.

08-05-2008, 06:37 AM	#4
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Na da.

08-05-2008, 08:03 AM	#8
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	I'd love a TCY2, but I'm learning not to get my hopes up. I'm therefore voiting for "nothing". __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

08-05-2008, 08:12 AM	#10
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Solecismic presents War! The card game.

08-05-2008, 08:18 AM	#11
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I think and hope that an improved version of FOF will come out. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

08-05-2008, 08:20 AM	#12
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	shurg Dunno. Haven't given it much thought, really. Could FOF use an upgrade? Sure, I guess, though it's generally good for my purposes (multiplayer), quirks and all. TCY sounds nice, but I didn't play the first and honestly, I play so few games now (heck, Civ IV is still on the back burner behind the time sink that is CoH) that I can't see playing TCY2. I might lean there though for my guess. __________________ null

08-05-2008, 08:24 AM	#13
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	As much as I'm hoping for some sort of football game to be announced I'm not holding my breath

08-05-2008, 08:25 AM	#14
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I guessed nothing, but would rather see a new TCY. I'm not eager to go through another conversion to a new version of FOF in my online league. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

08-05-2008, 09:11 AM	#15
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	TCY: The Card Game.

08-05-2008, 10:03 AM	#17
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I feel like I have an adequate grasp of FOF 2007 at this point. Having to adjust to the new chutes and ladders or whatever doesn't sound fun. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

08-05-2008, 10:07 AM	#18
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	Surprisingly, I think it will be FOF7. While a strong part of me thinks it'll be TCY2 (just because it's been so long since an update), I also think that maybe professional football > college football for Jim. TCY has had nary an updated schedule patch, whereas FOF has received frequent updates. Also, the focus on his Football Frontier website seemed to be more professional football based. I guess the bigger question is whether future FOF will continute to have multiplayer support. There is a bigger part of me that thinks that FOF MP might go the way of the dodo.

08-05-2008, 10:10 AM	#19
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	No matter what, I think we're going to see something if only because Jim needs a new revenue stream for well-being.

08-05-2008, 10:32 AM	#20
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	Guessed TCY2, but don't think I'm much interested in it. I never did enjoy TCY1. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

08-05-2008, 10:56 AM	#21
Bad-example College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san jose CA	I voted for a new FOF, more from hope than anything else. I thought TCY sucked, mainly because it is nigh on impossible to make an entertaining career sports sim where your entire roster is turned over every 4-5 years. Wishing more than anything that Jim would spend some of his valuable development time creating an interface that is full-screen friendly.

08-05-2008, 11:03 AM	#22
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Jim has always moved to the beat of his own drummer. For all we know he'll make a Guitar Hero sim.

08-05-2008, 01:36 PM	#23
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	TCY2. If I remember correctly, Jim said that he was working on updating both games for awhile, and then shifted all of his work towards FOF2007. Not sure how much work he did on an updated TCY before working fully on FOF2007, but I doubt he intends to let that work go to waste.

08-05-2008, 01:45 PM	#24
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	As much as I would like to see TCY2, I doubt there will be anything out for this year. I'd say that there is most likely going to be something released next year. Unless he had been working on TCY off and on over the years, it is going to be quite a bit of an overhaul and will take a while. And because of the other game he worked on recently, I don't expect anything for FOF, except maybe a patch of some sort, but even then I don't expect that before football season starts. So I opted for nothing. __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew

08-05-2008, 01:51 PM	#25
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Ha. What is going to happen by design is everybody votes nothing, a game is released in a month, the big cuddle hero is celebrated on high and all the fans wank it like Charles Haley. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

08-05-2008, 02:04 PM	#26
MIJB#19 Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands	Although I voted for that "nothing" option, the FOF7 option doesn't sound all that unlikely. I'm not expecting it to happen, but it wouldn't be coming out of nowhere either. __________________ * 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail

08-05-2008, 08:01 PM	#29
Pyser Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Los Angeles	i hope its fof7, and i hope its actually stripped down from the last version. that was just too...big...for lack of a better word. when i play, i still play 2k4.

08-05-2008, 09:54 PM	#31
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	I think there would have to be a major overhaul for FOF for a new version to be successful. SP loses its challenge after a while and I don't know how large the MP community really is, nor do I think a very large percentage would want to switch over without seeing a massive update. I voted nothing and I believe that's what's going to happen. If, however, there is a release, I'd expect it to be TCY2. Enough years have gone by that -any- new release should generate considerable buzz and sales, particularly if there's noticeable differences from the original. __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

08-05-2008, 09:58 PM	#32
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Considering TCY was released in the early 2000s and the last update was 2004, I'd say that there should be some noticeable differences from the original if a new version were to be released. Even so, I wonder if it would be FOF 2007-ized or if it would truly be a revolutionary product. The problem with FOF and EA Sports' games (can't believe I'm lumping them in together) is that they're evolutionary instead of revolutionary. I can understand the reason why. Hey, if it was my family that had to eat I'm not sure I would take too many chances either.

08-05-2008, 10:00 PM	#33
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	If Jim were able to introduce the 2D game viewer that he has hinted at in the past, that would be a pretty big change to the product. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

08-06-2008, 02:55 AM	#34
AlexB Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newbury, England	I don't think we'll see anything this year, purely because of the Developers Corner sub-forum. This is a great idea, but a long-term process - discussion and development, and seems strange to have had two threads and then release a new game which clearly must have been developed before the forum discussion. My guess is that Jim will put out a roster update with a couple of gameplay tweaks to FOF this year, and then a new game of some form next year, aided by 12 months of development discussion. __________________ 'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports!

08-06-2008, 05:23 AM	#35
Balldog Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Macomb, MI	Despite the communities support for TCY2 I can't believe he hasn't made it yet. Has he ever said why he hasn't?

08-06-2008, 08:22 AM	#36
marcmoustache H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Jun 2005	I think we could have a patch to 2k7 that dealt with some of the end of half/game, hurry up issues, plus maybe a change to gameplanning.

08-06-2008, 09:25 AM	#37
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I just hope he doesn't hold off on a roster update/patch just because of the anticipated backlash here of not having a new game.

08-06-2008, 10:43 AM	#38
kingnebwsu College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ohio	Voted FOF 7. Though if he released TCY 2 I would probably send him a check for $50 as thanks (nudge nudge Jim )

08-06-2008, 01:18 PM	#39
RedHawk00 H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Dec 2007	call me cheap, but i hope nothing, because i dont want to have to buy another game...

08-06-2008, 02:41 PM	#42
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	Well I thought before FOF2k7 was released he mentioned on his site that he was updating one (patch) and putting out another version of the other. I assume that the version was FOF2k7 and he would be patching TCY or at this point releasing another version of it? If its TCY, my money will be safe in my pocket until Duckman tries to steal it. If its another version of FOF, I'd definitely buy it. __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08 Last edited by gottimd : 08-06-2008 at 02:41 PM.