Calling all Fantasy Baseball folks

[rowech]

I need help on this one....I'm the comish of an NL only league where we've had two guys who haven't done squat. One stopped doing anything right after the draft and one's final move was on June 25th, including players on DL, players released from the league, etc. Trade deadline has passed (we had problems there) but now we have a bigger issue. Manny Ramirez was picked up by the last place team (not having done anything since June) who was 2nd in the waiver wire order. The team in 2nd was 3rd in the order.

There is definitely something strange going on based upon how this has gone down. I have put it to a vote as to whether Manny should stay where he is or should go to the 2nd place team. Sadly, the vote has ended in a 4-4 tie and now I'm wrestling as to whether I should have the ability to put him on the 2nd place team or whether I should stick with him being on the last place team.

For the record, I am nowhere near contention as I am in 8th place so the decision means nothing to my team.

[Scholes]

I don't see the problem. The guy picked up Manny fair and square. Just because he hasn't done anything in a month doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to make moves if he wants to. Hell, my brother won a league last season only making 3 moves. Now, if he trades him to someone in a unfair looking deal, that's another thing.

[molson]

If I was in that league, and you gave Manny to the 2nd place team, I'd probably quit. Who the heck are the 4 teams voting for that? Are they already out of contention?

June 25th isn't really that long ago. A baseball season is LONG, it's tough for a lot of people to be attentive to their teams the whole time.

[dacman]

Rules are rules -- if the team that claimed him had higher wavier priority due to inactivity, so be it.

You can penalize the inactive team in other ways if you wish (do not invite next year?), but circumventing the wavier rules to "punish" them for being inactive is not a good idea.

Now, if you have some sort of proof, or a hell of a lot of circumstancial evidence, that something nefarious went down (i.e. someone hacked that team to keep Manny off the 2nd place team), then voiding the wavier claim is the way to go.

[mccollins]

The last place team acquired Manny fairly under the rules of the league. I'd be offended by the 4 people that voted to illegally take Manny away from the team just because they were in last place and hadn't done anything. Unless you had rules in place to kick teams out for inactivity.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by molson

If I was in that league, and you gave Manny to the 2nd place team, I'd probably quit. Who the heck are the 4 teams voting for that? Are they already out of contention?

+1

[Mustang]

INACTIVE GUY MAKES MOVE! STORY AT 11!!!!

Not a hell of alot you can do about it. Even if the 1st place team convinced him to make a waiver move to block the 2nd place team, eh..

Unless you have something else to go on, there is nothing wrong with this.

[BrianD]

Are you worried about owner collusion with the 1st place team getting the guy to grab Manny so the 2nd place team couldn't? That might be a tough thing to prove, but I could see where that wouldn't exactly be fair.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by BrianD

but I could see where that wouldn't exactly be fair.

Why not?

[panerd]

Are these friends of yours or strangers? Two totally different answers to your question depending on which one it is.

[rowech]

All friends of mine and I do suspect collusion with the team that is currently in 3rd place. They are extremely close as our former athletic director and our girl's basketball coach.

What's funny about the voting so far is the 1st and 4th place teams have all voted that the 2nd place team should get him. Obviously, 2nd place has voted the same. Right now it stands 3-2 in favor of moving him.

To be honest, I won't be in the league next year anyway. We've had one incident already where two owners tried to make the following trade:

David Wright and Jimmy Rollins
for
Richie Weeks, Jose Bautista, Jo-Jo Reyes, Chad Gaudin, and Micah Owings.

[fantom1979]

The guy had the higher waiver priority and used it. There is no doubt that I would quit the league as soon as this became a vote. A good commish rules with an iron fist. We are here to protect democracy, not to practice it.

[molson]

Have you asked anybody involved that it was collusion? I wonder if a lot of people even realize that's "against the rules" (if it is). I'd want to hear their response, to see if I get the sense that people are actually lying about a fantasy baseball league.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

The guy had the higher waiver priority and used it. There is no doubt that I would quit the league as soon as this became a vote. A good commish rules with an iron fist. We are here to protect democracy, not to practice it.

If I make the decision myself, I will put Ramirez on the 2nd place team. To me, it's pure BS that this has happened.

[BrianD]

This won't be at all helpful, but this situation shows why owners that give up early are a problem. You've basically been playing with less than a full league for most of the season, so this move changes that. The interesting thing is that the 1st place team voted to move Manny. Maybe he didn't push for the initial pickup...

[rowech]

Early on, I debated dropping the two guys (both new this year) and freeing their rosters to a supplementary draft and refund their money. I should have done it.

What's worse is this same guy pulled some garbage during the football season failing to turn in a lineup (still do it the old fashioned way) from week 4 until the next to last week. In the final week he played a team that if they won, they would be in the playoffs. Of course, the lazy team won and kept the team from the playoffs.

[Toddzilla]

Did the team that claimed Manny break any rules? NO, so leave it be.

If this bugs you, make a rule for next year.

[rowech]

In my opinion, they did break rules...they didn't participate. Being a non-participant is more of a rule break than this. What's to prevent a guy from dropping his entire team? There are no rules broken there.

I just don't see how any league can be prepared for every possibility.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Scholes

I don't see the problem. The guy picked up Manny fair and square. Just because he hasn't done anything in a month doesn't mean he shouldn't be allowed to make moves if he wants to. Hell, my brother won a league last season only making 3 moves.

What he said.

[BrianD]

The team that picked up Manny broke no rules. If any team pushed him to become active again just to take Manny and mess with the 2nd place team, that could be a rule break.

[molson]

Originally Posted by rowech

In my opinion, they did break rules...they didn't participate. Being a non-participant is more of a rule break than this. What's to prevent a guy from dropping his entire team? There are no rules broken there.

I just don't see how any league can be prepared for every possibility.

I see what you're saying, but the guy was only inactive for 6 weeks. If there's some kind inactivity deadline, after which all of a team's moves are met with suspicion, it better be specific and part of the league rules. What if he was inactive for 3 weeks? If a team isn't "allowed" to make a suspicion-free move after some period of time, you have to disband the team or something.

Isn't it perfectly reasonable that heard about the big trade, realized that Manny was availabe, and went to his neglected team and made a claim?

[rowech]

Okay...I guess I'm acting like he's been super active all season. He's made 8 moves all season, six of which were in April. He made one move in May and one move in June.

Another important fact I failed to mention is that our league ends August 31st. It's not over at the end of the baseball season but we have four weeks left which is another reason folks are upset. Manny isn't going to change fortunes in four weeks.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by rowech

If I make the decision myself, I will put Ramirez on the 2nd place team. To me, it's pure BS that this has happened.

Why is it BS? Maybe he didn't want to make any moves for a long time, then saw Manny was going to become available, and decided to jump on him.

BS would be voiding the rightful waiver claim, that would be big-time BS. And you are leaning that way, so either you aren't reading the thread, or you were already leaning that way and just wanted some backup. Not happening.

[Mustang]

I just don't see how you can arbitrarily decide to remove a player from a team to award them to another team. Would anyone have cared if it was Brandon Moss and the number 2 team? I'm not a big fan of selective rules where things slide because people say 'Well.. it's just some utility infielder so, who cares....'

If you are removing his claim, then you have to remove any and all claims he may put in until the end of the season and not just when it is a stud player. Which, if that is the case you might as well just kick the team out of the league and freeze the team.

All this reminds my why I like FAAB systems more than waiver wire. Although, guess he could have just dumped his FAAB allotment on Ramirez and you'd be in the same boat. (although, my main NL only league, we use actual dollars so, the Ramirez winner in our league had to pay $49 actual)

[molson]

Originally Posted by rowech

Okay...I guess I'm acting like he's been super active all season. He's made 8 moves all season, six of which were in April. He made one move in May and one move in June.

Unless there's a specific rule about minimum transactions per month, there's nothing wrong with this, and certainly nothing that should cause future moves to be voided.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mustang

All this reminds my why I like FAAB systems more than waiver wire.

Enlighten the uneducated please?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by rowech

Another important fact I failed to mention is that our league ends August 31st. It's not over at the end of the baseball season but we have four weeks left which is another reason folks are upset. Manny isn't going to change fortunes in four weeks.

Considering you held a league-wide vote, someone must think Manny will make an impact...

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by rowech

... and refund their money...

The other issue is that real money is involved.

This person paid real money to have the right to run their team however actively or inactively they want. Sure, it can be annoying, but even if someone prodded him to make the legal waiver claim, I don't know that there would be anything wrong with that per se.

[rowech]

Well, I phrased the question with a 4-4 tie purposely to see how people would feel if I did over rule it. Luckily, this isn't going to happen as the vote went 6-2 to over rule the pickup and awared Manny to the 2nd place team. I will offer the last place team 1/2 of his entry fee back if he chooses.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Enlighten the uneducated please?

? I'm not sure if you thought I was looking down at people or are seriously asking. It's just a personal preference of mine. I just think waiver wire systems penalize you for being good. If you have a waiver wire system that resets every week, I don't necessarily like that a team that is #1 has a harder time improving their team. When you have a free agent budget, there is more strategy involved. (Although, for waiver wire systems that don't reset and are based on # of moves, I'm better with those)

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Mustang

? I'm not sure if you thought I was looking down at people or are seriously asking. It's just a personal preference of mine. I just think waiver wire systems penalize you for being good. If you have a waiver wire system that resets every week, I don't necessarily like that a team that is #1 has a harder time improving their team. When you have a free agent budget, there is more strategy involved. (Although, for waiver wire systems that don't reset and are based on # of moves, I'm better with those)

I think he was asking what it is.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mustang

? I'm not sure if you thought I was looking down at people or are seriously asking. It's just a personal preference of mine. I just think waiver wire systems penalize you for being good. If you have a waiver wire system that resets every week, I don't necessarily like that a team that is #1 has a harder time improving their team. When you have a free agent budget, there is more strategy involved. (Although, for waiver wire systems that don't reset and are based on # of moves, I'm better with those)

Yeah, sorry. I hadn't heard of FAAB before and was interested in what it was. Do you actually have people paying real money to pick up free agents, or it is a pool of fake money that can be spent for the season?

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Yeah, sorry. I hadn't heard of FAAB before and was interested in what it was. Do you actually have people paying real money to pick up free agents, or it is a pool of fake money that can be spent for the season?

Ahh.. no prob.

Typically it is a pool of money (either fake or real and usually $100) that is allocated to each team to bid on free agents. So, say when Saito went down and Broxton was out there. Instead of a first come/first serve or waiver wire, teams bid from their pool of money and the winning bid is subtracted. So, I bid $19 on Broxton and I'm the high bid, I'd have $81 left. $0 bids are accepted so, if you need so utility player to fill in, you don't have to waste your money.

For our league, we don't have a FAAB cap (although, due to various rules the effective cap is at $238) and bids are real $. Sabathia was $55, Harden $48, Ramirez $49, Blanton $16, Moss $15, Kotchman $21...

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Ahh.. no prob.

Typically it is a pool of money (either fake or real and usually $100) that is allocated to each team to bid on free agents. So, say when Saito went down and Broxton was out there. Instead of a first come/first serve or waiver wire, teams bid from their pool of money and the winning bid is subtracted. So, I bid $19 on Broxton and I'm the high bid, I'd have $81 left. $0 bids are accepted so, if you need so utility player to fill in, you don't have to waste your money.

For our league, we don't have a FAAB cap (although, due to various rules the effective cap is at $238) and bids are real $. Sabathia was $55, Harden $48, Ramirez $49, Blanton $16, Moss $15, Kotchman $21...

That is an interesting way to deal with free agents. I like the pool of money idea, though I personally would want to see some kind of cap.