So I'm Gonna Get A Digital Camera...

[Chief Rum]

Okay, gonna be in NYC in three weeks. I don't have crap for mobile digital imagery machinery, and I have a $50 gift cert to Best Buy to help out with a purchase.

So I need a digital camera.

Now imagine that you're trying to help a complete noob buy his first computer, and trying to explain hard drives, operating software, RAM, ROM (memory and DVD), etc. That's about what I am like with digital cameras.

So I need someone to hold my hand here. What's a good buy? What sort of things should I be looking for? What should I expect to look for if I may be taking a lot of pictures while out on the road, and I may not have access to a computer while out there?

And my feeling from eyeballing digital cameras in stores is that a decent one is $200 and up. Is that right? If it settled somewhere in the $200-300 range, I would be comfortable with that. More, and I will probably start to get increasingly uncomfortable.

Any help you guys can give. Thanks!

[MJ4H]

Think of megapixels as the resolution of the pictures you are taking. The larger the number, the better resolution your pictures will be in. You will also want to look for things like a big optical zoon. I have a 5 MP and 4x optical zoom digital camera that I paid $200 for about 2 years ago. I'm pretty happy with it. You'll want to consider 5 MP as an absolute minimum these days. You can get a much better camera than what I have (A Canon Powershot) for the same price now, of course. You will also want an SD card for storing photos on.

Others will be able to give better info on this, but this should get you started at least.

[SackAttack]

Why am I totally unsurprised that Chief Rum needed three threads to prepare for his NYC trip?

MJ4H hit the high notes, but one thing to keep in mind is that not every camera uses SD. Get the card that works for the camera you buy, whether it's CompactFlash, Memory Stick/Pro/Duo/Pro Duo, xD, SD, whatever.

Easy way is find the camera you want, then point at it and ask the sales rep "so gimme a 2 GB memory card that works with this."

[Lorena]

I gave MJ4H this advice about a year and a half ago

- Digital vs. optical zoom: optical zoom is much more important than digital zoom; digital multiplies the pixels and results in loss of image quality.

- Rechargeable batteries: we have a few digital cameras but most of them use regular batteries and they end up gathering dust. My digital SLR camera has a rechargeable battery and gets used constantly.

- Megapixels: it depends what kind of print you want. The more megapixels a camera has, the bigger print you can get. If you'll be printing 4x6 for example, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on megapixels. Sometimes this is overrated. Besides, the more megapixels a camera has, the more expensive it is.

- Ebay: I highly recommend buying a camera on Ebay, not everything on there is used. We bought our digital SLR (DLSR) on there at a ridiculous price and got all kinds of extras. Just make sure to read the description carefully (make sure it's not refurbished or used) and check the user rating.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Why am I totally unsurprised that Chief Rum needed three threads to prepare for his NYC trip?

MJ4H hit the high notes, but one thing to keep in mind is that not every camera uses SD. Get the card that works for the camera you buy, whether it's CompactFlash, Memory Stick/Pro/Duo/Pro Duo, xD, SD, whatever.

Easy way is find the camera you want, then point at it and ask the sales rep "so gimme a 2 GB memory card that works with this."

Well, hey, I didn't want anyone having to read about stuff they don't find interesting.

Now the Broadway honks can get stay out of the way of the digital camera fanatics and Manhattan finer dining critics and vice versa.

About the memory cards, I suppose this might be pertinent. Do SD cards also get used as transportable memory for cellphones? Because I just got a new PDA cell (Samsung Blackjack) that, I believe, has an SD port. So if SD cards are something I can use with both, I suppose it would mke the most sense to aim for a camera that uses SD cards instead of the other memory options.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Lorena

I gave MJ4H this advice about a year and a half ago

- Digital vs. optical zoom: optical zoom is much more important than digital zoom; digital multiplies the pixels and results in loss of image quality.

- Rechargeable batteries: we have a few digital cameras but most of them use regular batteries and they end up gathering dust. My digital SLR camera has a rechargeable battery and gets used constantly.

- Megapixels: it depends what kind of print you want. The more megapixels a camera has, the bigger print you can get. If you'll be printing 4x6 for example, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on megapixels. Sometimes this is overrated. Besides, the more megapixels a camera has, the more expensive it is.

- Ebay: I highly recommend buying a camera on Ebay, not everything on there is used. We bought our digital SLR (DLSR) on there at a ridiculous price and got all kinds of extras. Just make sure to read the description carefully (make sure it's not refurbished or used) and check the user rating.

I agree on all these points, but I would change that last one. Although we bought ours from eBay, we had to do quite a bit of research. On top of that, we only chose from the ones that had storefronts and the reason why we got a deal was because of the type of camera we were looking for (which was an SLR.

If you don't want to go through that hassle, I would look to purchase a camera from B & H photo. They have been around for years and cater to both professionals and amateurs alike. From there, you can narrow down a camera to a price range, a brand, megapixels and more.

And really 6 megapixels is fine. What you will find is that when you go for anything more, it is gonna use a lot more storage space and increase the time for pics to save on the camera due to the internal processing. And even then, a lot of professionals are staying within the 6-8 megapixels range. Hell there are still some pros that are using 4 megapixel cameras for magazine covers.

[Commo_Soldier]

I would suggest looking into the following cameras -

Kodak 8 megapixel

Kodak 10 mega pixel


Both come with a 12x optical zoom which is hard to beat without getting a camera where you can change lenses. In additon they both take SD Memory, are on sale, and come with a free 1GB memory card. I also have never really heard anything bad about the EasyShare cameras. The only downside is their battersy fade fairly fast, so depending on how quick you take pictures you may want to get the rechargable batteries as well.

[AlexB]

I am similarly ignorant of digital photography, and bought my first camera about 4 months ago - I plumped for a Panasonic Lumix 8.1 megapixel DMC-FX33.

The reason I chose it was it was mid priced, had a well reviewed point-and-click mode as well as manual options for once I get used to it, and was generally well reviewed overall.

I really like it, it's really easy to use, the shots look great, but in all honesty I couldn't tell you how it compares to everything else out there.

[jeheinz72]

CR, I just bought my wife a Sony Cybershot (was about $230 at Costco, not incl. a new memory card) and it's fantastic. Give it a spin.

[Castlerock]

There is some good advice above. I would add:

Check out the shutter-lag. On point-and-shoot digital cameras, the time between when you press the shutter release and when the camera actually takes the picture can be substantial. I had a point and shoot and I HATED it. I couldn't take a photo of anything unless it was stationary. If I tried to take a photo of a child, I would press the shutter and by the time the camera took the photo he/she would have moved and the shot would be gone. I only used the thing a couple of times before I threw it in the trash. Well, it's still in the closet but it will likely never take another picture.

If all you are going to print are 4x6 photos, I wouldn't worry too much about megapixels (as long it's at least 3-4). The file sizes just get bigger which means bigger memory cards for the camera, longer upload times, bigger disk, drives for storage, etc...

[stevew]

I would suggest a Sony or canon. Although with Sony they nail you on the memory cards and such.

Another thing to consider is if you want a viewfinder or not. That will slim down the choices.

Megapixels are largely irrelevant these days as 8 is basically standard.

You want something with a rechargeable battery.

I tend to shy away from kodak personally. Just seem to have awful shutter spEed and poor build quality.

For compact cameras I'd think about the Sony w-150 with 5x zoom for around 230. Or the w-120 for a bit less. Some good canon's would be an sd1100. Plus several others. Although some do use AA's.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

There is some good advice above. I would add:

Check out the shutter-lag. On point-and-shoot digital cameras, the time between when you press the shutter release and when the camera actually takes the picture can be substantial. I had a point and shoot and I HATED it. I couldn't take a photo of anything unless it was stationary. If I tried to take a photo of a child, I would press the shutter and by the time the camera took the photo he/she would have moved and the shot would be gone. I only used the thing a couple of times before I threw it in the trash. Well, it's still in the closet but it will likely never take another picture.

If all you are going to print are 4x6 photos, I wouldn't worry too much about megapixels (as long it's at least 3-4). The file sizes just get bigger which means bigger memory cards for the camera, longer upload times, bigger disk, drives for storage, etc...

That's another thing I like about the Cybershot. It has this like Smile-Finder setting which will basically wait until your subject smiles then take the picture. It works pretty well and it's handy for kids (not that CR has any)

[Lorena]

Oh, and another thing to consider, will you be using it for strictly photos or videos too? There are a lot of cameras that have both features now (mine unfortunately doesn't).

If you'll be taking sports pictures, you'll probably need one that has a fast "shutter speed" setting or a "sports setting".

[MikeVic]

I bought a Canon 1100 recently and like it.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Lorena

I gave MJ4H this advice about a year and a half ago

- Digital vs. optical zoom: optical zoom is much more important than digital zoom; digital multiplies the pixels and results in loss of image quality.

- Rechargeable batteries: we have a few digital cameras but most of them use regular batteries and they end up gathering dust. My digital SLR camera has a rechargeable battery and gets used constantly.

- Megapixels: it depends what kind of print you want. The more megapixels a camera has, the bigger print you can get. If you'll be printing 4x6 for example, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on megapixels. Sometimes this is overrated. Besides, the more megapixels a camera has, the more expensive it is.

- Ebay: I highly recommend buying a camera on Ebay, not everything on there is used. We bought our digital SLR (DLSR) on there at a ridiculous price and got all kinds of extras. Just make sure to read the description carefully (make sure it's not refurbished or used) and check the user rating.

Lorena gives a lot of great advice, but I'll add my 2 cents.

I personally don't like using cameras that require a special rechargeable battery. I have a point-and-shoot style camera (Canon PowerShot SD850 IS) that uses a special battery, and though I have an extra, I've had times where both have died on me. When I'm out shooting with a true intention of taking pictures (not just the hanging out type pictures I typically do with my Canon), I use a camera that takes regular AA batteries. Sure, I have rechargeable AA batteries that I use, but if they die, I can always pick up more batteries at a drug store...

If you can afford it, I'd look into a camera with a good level of optical zoom. And, I've found I really like image stabilization features. My main camera is an Olympus SP-550UZ that has 18x optical zoom. I love it, but I do a lot of shooting on the boat, so with that much zoom, and the boat, the image stabilization helps.

Find a camera that feels good for you. When I bought my main camera, I was looking for something close to a DSLR, but not quite. I didn't mind it if it was a little on the heavier side, as I was looking for manual functionality and good optical zoom. When looking for my "goof around" camera, I wanted something I could slip in my jeans pocket or purse. Hence, I've got 2 very different cameras with very different purpose. The Olympus feels much better in my hands than the Canon, so I'd recommend if you can trying to hold them. Also, since you'll be doing a bit of sight-seeing, you might want to get a camera that has a few options for different shooting modes so that you can shoot quick action shots, dark environment shots, etc.

/tk

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, hey, I didn't want anyone having to read about stuff they don't find interesting.

Now the Broadway honks can get stay out of the way of the digital camera fanatics and Manhattan finer dining critics and vice versa.

About the memory cards, I suppose this might be pertinent. Do SD cards also get used as transportable memory for cellphones? Because I just got a new PDA cell (Samsung Blackjack) that, I believe, has an SD port. So if SD cards are something I can use with both, I suppose it would mke the most sense to aim for a camera that uses SD cards instead of the other memory options.

Just as with cameras, depends on the phone! Some phones might use full SD, while others might use mini-SD or micro-SD. There are adapters to allow micro- and mini-SD to work with full-SD devices, so depending on what exactly your phone uses, then, yes, it might make sense to consolidate that way.

[Glengoyne]

I followed the advice here on FOFC a year or maybe a little longer back, and ended up with a Canon S3 IS. The IS is for Image Stabilization. This camera is great, and it actually feels like a real camera. I much prefer it to most cameras at its price point as it is fairly substantial in size and weight. It isn't a pocket camera, that is for sure.

It takes great photos, is very configurable and as far as I can tell, it is the next best thing to an actual digital SLR.

The lag time between pressing the button and the camera taking the picture is still there, but not near as bad as other cameras I tried out. In any case the Canon S3 is highly recommended.

[Mac Howard]

I just bought a Canon 720 IS for 244 Australian dollars - you'd probably get it for less than US$200. It ticks all the boxes - 8 megapixels, 6 times optical zoom, AA/rechargebale batteries, SD card and a whole range of automatic options for various conditions - sports shots, children shots etc and various light conditions. Also image stabilisation (eliminates camera shake), red eye correction and face detection.

If you want to go beyond shooting under the auto mode then there are manual shooting modes allowing you to choose exposure or timing settings. There's also a small viewfinder for when the lcd screen is unsuitable. There are additional wide angle and telephoto lens available for it.

Incidentally 8 Megapixels is very big - about four times the picture on a 1080p tv screen (you can output the picture direct to the tv). It also means a 3 Mbyte jpeg image - 300 or images on a 1 Gbyte card. But you can reduce the size of the picture and resize a picture even down to 320 x 240 pixels if you wish either when taking a shot or editing the picture with the camera itself (there's a 1600 x 1200 picture size ideal for your 1080p tv).

It may well be that much of the above is standard (I'm relatively ignorant on cameras) but I was most impressed when I read the technical spec and delayed buying an SLR until I find the limits on this camera.

[stevew]

One thing I would ad is that camera models change 1 to 2 times a year so you might have to find the updated model numbers for some of the excellent suggestions posted in this thread. The one Mac mentioned is great for the price and zoom. There is also an sx100is(about 230) out there by canon with a 10Zoom and it's reasonably compact for a camera with that much zoom. If you don't mind recharging aa batteries for them they are really nice

Me personally I have a nikon s7 which is older but does some amazing things and is wifi. The thing retailed for like 400 at one point but I got an amazing deal on a clearance one. But even the new models which are priced much less do much of the same things nOw.

The Sony t300, for instance, is amazing but 400 bucks is a lot for something that will probably brick if you drop it.

Also you do have the BB gift card so ill assume you'll be buying there. Don't forget about their pricematching policy. Find what you want. Then go online to sears and Cc and whomever else they match and get the best price. And check those places a couple times in the 30 day window. If you pay full retail there are always sales and retail price drops. It amazes me how people don't take More advantage of the matching.

[Chief Rum]

All right, there is just tons of good advice here. I think I have a good idea of what I will be looking for. I am leaving shortly to go buy. If anyone cares, I will update when I return, and let you all know what I bought. Thanks!

[MJ4H]

Take pictures of the camer...hmm, wait

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I followed the advice here on FOFC a year or maybe a little longer back, and ended up with a Canon S3 IS. The IS is for Image Stabilization. This camera is great, and it actually feels like a real camera. I much prefer it to most cameras at its price point as it is fairly substantial in size and weight. It isn't a pocket camera, that is for sure.

It takes great photos, is very configurable and as far as I can tell, it is the next best thing to an actual digital SLR.

The lag time between pressing the button and the camera taking the picture is still there, but not near as bad as other cameras I tried out. In any case the Canon S3 is highly recommended.

I also love my S3. I can almost guarantee it's a half or even full step above the average or even other "good" point and click camera in terms of image quality. I have been completely blown away by what I can do even in low light or with a lot of zoom (up to 12X). The comment about it being the next best thing to an SLR is pretty dead on. But I digress...

Dang, coming late to the party so not sure how much what I say will help now, but I'll give it a go anyways, commenting on what has already been said:

-Digital zoom isn't just not important, it's pretty much useless. Should not even be a factor in your decision making. Lorena put this perfectly.

-Megapixels. This isn't Ghz or GB or RAM in a computer. A 5MP camera can easily have worse images than a 3MP. I have an 8MP HP and it takes a worse pictures than my old 4MP Canon A80. Go read some reviews about who has good picture quality. Photo enthusiasts do a pretty good job of getting the word out on the web. Again, anything more than 5 or 6 is probably overkill, especially if you're just starting out.

-Batteries. We use rechargeable AAs for everything around the house: TV Remotes, Wiimotes, Alarm Clocks, wireless mouse, and, yes, cameras. I think discounting a camera because it uses AA's instead of lithium is a bad call. I can get ~300 images out of a high end set of AA's in my S3 IS between recharges. The downside is that you have to make sure to remember to keep them charged or remember to charge them if you don't use the camera for a month but that's true of camera specific batteries as well. For us, that's easy- we just put the charger in the bathroom under the night light and slap 4 batteries in there whenever we need them. We have maybe 20 or 30 scattered around the house- but if you find a discount when you buy them, you won't have to buy batteries for 5+ years.

-Learning curve. You don't need to jump straight into a super camera all at once. In fact, better to training wheel yourself up the learning curve. At $200, you aren't going to jump right into something crazy anyways. Myself, I've gone A80 -> S3 IS and my next camera will likely be a digital SLR. But it takes a little bit of time to learn and master what you have, otherwise, the options are overwhelming and you have a big chunk of camera you don't use.

-Shutter lag- Castlerock makes great mention of this. Gotta look it up because camera makers rarely advertise this. It is definitely not to be underestimated. The way he described something being gone before you could take a shot is very accurate.

-Heft. Tk mentions what I think is even more underrated than shutter lag. Heft- how does it feel in your hand. Some people love the little point-n-shoot toys. I can't stand that feel- it doesn't feel solid in my hands and I get shaky pictures. I love feel of the Canon A's and S's (Canon also makes little cameras)- but they weigh more and are larger so you probably are best carrying it around in a case. That's a big personal preference thing. Go to Best Buy or your camera retailer of choice and check out the feel with batteries in before you buy. If you don't like how it feels, you're not going to use the camera.

So, to recap (in order of importance, to me):
-Image Quality
-Optical Zoom
-Shutter Lag
-Heft
-Megapixels
-Batteries

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Take pictures of the camer...hmm, wait

That's what mirrors are for, of course

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

I bought my camera from B&H and am very happy with it. The only downside is every 6 months or so I get a HUGE (500+ pages) catalog from them, even after calling and telling them to stop wasting the paper on it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Shutter lag- Castlerock makes great mention of this. Gotta look it up because camera makers rarely advertise this. It is definitely not to be underestimated. The way he described something being gone before you could take a shot is very accurate.

Thanks, SI. I hadn't quite left yet, so this does help.

It raises a concern, though. You talk extensively about shutter lag, and I was taking that into consideration from earlier posts in the thread. But this seems to be really critical, and if what you're saying is true, I won't be able to tell this from just looking at specs on the cameras in the store. And we all know how potentially iffy the "help" is in these stores.

The problem is, the shutter lag issue would seem to beg for further research, and I am really under abit of time pressure to get this done, today, if at all possible. So finding a new and perhaps critical issue to research just before I need to go out to spend a good amount of money on this is, umm, a little disconcerting.

Any recommendations for what to do?

[sterlingice]

Here's a start. I'll keep looking:

http://www.cameras.co.uk/html/shutte...omparisons.cfm

SI

[JPhillips]

You'll notice pretty quickly if you can take shots. Shoot something moving and notice the difference between the shot you intended and the shot you got. I know my Sony is a good camera, but the shutter lag makes it useless for a lot of candid shots of my daughter.

[DaddyTorgo]

have someone sitting at home in front of a website that has comprehensive reviews of cameras so you can be on the phone with them at the same time?

[Chief Rum]

Thanks, guys. SI, I did a search on that site with some specs I wanted (8-10 MP, 8-12 opt zoom, SD memory, image stabilization features, and I limited it to Canon because they seemed to have better than average shutter lag speeds), and it came back with the Canon Powershot S5 IS and the Canon Powershot SX100 IS

[Chief Rum]

Oh yeah, also chose AA batteries. Undecided on that. I like the less complication of having regular AA batteries I can just go buy if I need them, but the possibility of rechargeable batteries is certainly a price saver.

[sterlingice]

You pay ~$15 on a charger up front and $10 for batteries but then you never have to pay for them again.

SI

[Chief Rum]

It appears the SX100 really struggles at night. The S5 looks terrific, but it really seems to be a heavy featured camera that might be a lot more than what I need (meaning I am paying for more than I need).

[Chief Rum]

So it seems most here think 6 MP is fine for resolution, but 8 is the standard. The S3 mentioned here and a couple others I have seen (speaking of which, opinions on the Panasonic FZ7?)

With respect to MPs, should I be concerned down the road that I need 8 MP and only have 6? I'm not blowing these up into huge pics or nothing (or no plans to), so it seems like 6 MP should be enough right?

If I accept the 6 MP, I think I might be able to find a camera with the features I am looking for at a slightly more reasonable price.

[mccollins]

Nikon D40!!
It's a dSLR, but I really grew to hate the shutter lag of point and shoot cameras while trying to catch my toddler son doing something cute.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by mccollins

Nikon D40!!
It's a dSLR, but I really grew to hate the shutter lag of point and shoot cameras while trying to catch my toddler son doing something cute.

If I hadn't just had an offer accepted on a house, I'd be buying one of these.

/tk

[MJ4H]

6 is more than enough. 5 is enormous.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by terpkristin

If I hadn't just had an offer accepted on a house, I'd be buying one of these.

/tk

Wait, you got a house?

SI

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Wait, you got a house?

SI

I guess that's the first I've announced it here...I was a little afraid of jinxing it. Yeah, I got a house, inspection was yesterday (and went very well), closing on 9/9.

/tk

[GMO]

The Canon A720 is good.