Recording Drums

[Bonegavel]

Later this summer I'm going to pickup a set of drums (gave away my other set 10 years ago ) and I'm getting back into recording. In the past I used my only SM58 for recording the drums and that is obviously not optimal but it was all I had.

Any recommendations on good mic'ing on-the-cheap? Should I pickup a few SM57s? At $99 a pop it's a little expensive, but I don't think I have much choice. As I've mentioned, I still have my SM58.

[Ksyrup]

This is where I post that I miss Hurst2112.

[Qwikshot]

Let me know what happens, I have a Gretch Catalina Club with a decent set of cymbals and while the neighbor has really groaned about it, I love playing these suckers.

[Hurst2112]

Looks like I am late to the party.

I'm back on a limited basis Ksyrup. Good to be around again. (saw my first Opeth show recently.)

Anywho...

Bonegavel:

I've been an audio engineer for the last 6+ years up in the cities. I have a few suggestions for you.

Question 1: What is your budget for mics? That's the biggest factor.
Question 2: What is the size of your kit? How many drums?
Question 3: What is the size of your room? Ceiling height?
Question 4: What are you recording to? How many inputs do you have?
Question 4a: Will you be submixing drums on a mixer before recording them?
Question 5: Will you be eq-ing drums to 'tape'? Will you have any outboard dynamics going on (eq, compressors)?
Question 6: What kind of music? Rock, metal, jazz, etc?

You don't have to answer all these questions. Just giving you a checklist of things to think about. You can mic a kit with 1 microphone. There are no rules. It's just that the more mics you have, the more options you have. When I track drums, I usually use 12 tracks (believe it or not, there are guys who use more). That's for a 5 piece kit. I have the luxury of working with a great mic collection. But, that doesn't mean you can't get great drum sounds with 2-4 mics.

If I was going to get mics that I will be able to record drums with, I'd chose some versatile mics; stuff I can use for other things. 57s will work for almost anything and why not get 1 mic that you can use for drums and a guitar amp, right?

If you want a bass drum mic, you should find a large diaphragm mic. However, a Sennheiser MD421 could be used for a kick mic. I always use those for toms as do most people. They are about $350 each.

Overheads (you can use 1 or 2 or more. I usually just use 2) add a lot of dimmension to your kit and are important for tom tones as well. If you can afford it, condenser mics will be nice to have. Those need phantom power. However, you can use 58s or 57s too. It all depends on budget.

Audix makes some drum mics that come in a kit. Pretty inexpensive. I forget how much but you can find them on ebay. Audix D6 is the kick drum mic. Beware, this is a mic that I prefer for metal bands. The eq of the mic is designed to make the mic 'punchy' right out of the box. Top end is boosted and low mids are already scooped. You can use this for other styles of music but you will have to smooth it out with eq before or after tape. The Audix D4 models are for toms and snare.

I would say that if you don't want to buy new, look on craigslist or ebay for mics. 57s and 58s are always on there. Audix packs should be too. But, beware...there are companies who sell knockoff 57s. They're made in china and aren't as good as the Shure models. They look almost exactly alike but aren't as well crafted. If you find a new 57 for really cheap, it's probably one of these. You can find real, used ones for around $60. They are tough as hell so don't worry about buying a used dynamic mic. Hell, I recorded a metal band last month and the drummer broke the cap off my my 57. Cracked it right off. Took some tape and fastened the cap back on. Thing still worked. Those mics are super strong.

If you need any suggestions, let me know. You can PM me or shoot me an email daryllhurst at gmail dot com.

rock on

[Lathum]

while you are here any recomendations on electric sets?

We are moving into a condo and I want to start playing again ( started when I was 8)

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Lathum

while you are here any recomendations on electric sets?

We are moving into a condo and I want to start playing again ( started when I was 8)

Well, the Roland V Drum series is awesome. Pricey though.

Alesis makes this: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Alesis-D...50-i1141717.gc

The DM5 is a great module but doesn't have sequencing capabilities I don't think.

For me, being a drummer, I'd want a kit that allows for me to jam with some sequences. I know the Roland V Brain allows that. Not sure of any other modules that do for a lesser price.

Here's a Simmons kit:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Alesis-D...50-i1141717.gc

Realize that most of these don't have kick pedals included.

Also, don't buy more than what you really need. If you are just going to jam by yourself in the house, why spend $2K + on a kit?

Used, I'd go with Roland or Yamaha. Yamaha used to make a great module and pads. Forgot the series but I'm sure you can find decent deals on ebay.

I'd also suggest buying a little mixer. You can send the stereo outs of your kit into 2 channels. Then, you take a CD player and send it to the CD in of the mixer. Blend them together and jam along to your favorite albums. I spent years playing to tapes and CDs of my favorite bands with a regular kit. It's a good practice method that teaches you timing. You can find mini mixers for as little as $70. So, essentially, you can have a new elec. kit and mixer for less than 6 bills. Even less if you buy used.

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Looks like I am late to the party.

I'm back on a limited basis Ksyrup. Good to be around again. (saw my first Opeth show recently.)

Anywho...

Bonegavel:

I've been an audio engineer for the last 6+ years up in the cities. I have a few suggestions for you.

Question 1: What is your budget for mics? That's the biggest factor.
Question 2: What is the size of your kit? How many drums?
Question 3: What is the size of your room? Ceiling height?
Question 4: What are you recording to? How many inputs do you have?
Question 4a: Will you be submixing drums on a mixer before recording them?
Question 5: Will you be eq-ing drums to 'tape'? Will you have any outboard dynamics going on (eq, compressors)?
Question 6: What kind of music? Rock, metal, jazz, etc?

You don't have to answer all these questions. Just giving you a checklist of things to think about. You can mic a kit with 1 microphone. There are no rules. It's just that the more mics you have, the more options you have. When I track drums, I usually use 12 tracks (believe it or not, there are guys who use more). That's for a 5 piece kit. I have the luxury of working with a great mic collection. But, that doesn't mean you can't get great drum sounds with 2-4 mics.

If I was going to get mics that I will be able to record drums with, I'd chose some versatile mics; stuff I can use for other things. 57s will work for almost anything and why not get 1 mic that you can use for drums and a guitar amp, right?

If you want a bass drum mic, you should find a large diaphragm mic. However, a Sennheiser MD421 could be used for a kick mic. I always use those for toms as do most people. They are about $350 each.

Overheads (you can use 1 or 2 or more. I usually just use 2) add a lot of dimmension to your kit and are important for tom tones as well. If you can afford it, condenser mics will be nice to have. Those need phantom power. However, you can use 58s or 57s too. It all depends on budget.

Audix makes some drum mics that come in a kit. Pretty inexpensive. I forget how much but you can find them on ebay. Audix D6 is the kick drum mic. Beware, this is a mic that I prefer for metal bands. The eq of the mic is designed to make the mic 'punchy' right out of the box. Top end is boosted and low mids are already scooped. You can use this for other styles of music but you will have to smooth it out with eq before or after tape. The Audix D4 models are for toms and snare.

I would say that if you don't want to buy new, look on craigslist or ebay for mics. 57s and 58s are always on there. Audix packs should be too. But, beware...there are companies who sell knockoff 57s. They're made in china and aren't as good as the Shure models. They look almost exactly alike but aren't as well crafted. If you find a new 57 for really cheap, it's probably one of these. You can find real, used ones for around $60. They are tough as hell so don't worry about buying a used dynamic mic. Hell, I recorded a metal band last month and the drummer broke the cap off my my 57. Cracked it right off. Took some tape and fastened the cap back on. Thing still worked. Those mics are super strong.

If you need any suggestions, let me know. You can PM me or shoot me an email daryllhurst at gmail dot com.

rock on

Sweet. I'm sitting in my room at Disney at the moment so I only wanted to quickly reply to this as an acknowledgment and will go into detail in a day or two when I get home. thanks

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

Sweet. I'm sitting in my room at Disney at the moment so I only wanted to quickly reply to this as an acknowledgment and will go into detail in a day or two when I get home. thanks

The world of rock will forgive you for your tardiness. Only this one time...

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Question 1: What is your budget for mics? That's the biggest factor.
Question 2: What is the size of your kit? How many drums?
Question 3: What is the size of your room? Ceiling height?
Question 4: What are you recording to? How many inputs do you have?
Question 4a: Will you be submixing drums on a mixer before recording them?
Question 5: Will you be eq-ing drums to 'tape'? Will you have any outboard dynamics going on (eq, compressors)?
Question 6: What kind of music? Rock, metal, jazz, etc?

1) I may be able to cough up $300-500.

2) typical 5 piece - snare, bass, 2 mounted toms, 1 floor, 2 crash, 1 ride, hh

3) basement is about 8/9 ft ceiling - unfinished cement floors, open floor joists for ceiling

4) this is "to be determined" at this point and will probably be based off of how many mics I want to use for the kit.

4a) is this highly recommended?

5) I do have a Tascam 464 (from the early 90s) but I'm not going to be using it. I may upgrade to the newest Tascam with a hard drive.

6) Mainly Rock along with non-rap top 40ish stuff

[edit - added link to tascam]

[Hurst2112]

BARELY Used/ AUDIX FUSION 6 DRUM Microphones - eBay (item 260265250291 end time Jul-30-08 14:18:01 PDT)

Those would retain their value over the next few years. It would give you enough mics for your kit. They aren't the D line of Audix but they would be a good starter pack for you to experiment with.

Submixing is something you could do if you had limited inputs and a large mixer. It's not really recommended because the manipulation of each track is gone once you submix into 2 tracks (or combine any number of mics into 1 or more tracks).

Obviously, you can do a lot with just 3 mics if you use them right. At my home studio, when I pre-pro stuff, I tend to use kick, snare and 2 overheads. That's fine for getting ideas but it can be used for actual songs if it sounds good.

The tascam unit you linked to has 4 XLR inputs. You would also get 4 1/4" inputs. You can use these with mics but you would need to get a mic level into those 1/4" inputs. That's another story.

[Bonegavel]

Shit! I missed the auction.

Well, I'm not going with the Tascam now that I've hooked the Pod X3 Live up to my laptop with Acid. What an awesome way to record. Now I just need to get a decent little mixer with a bunch of XLR inputs. I'll keep a lookout for another bargain like that. Damn.

I'd post the song I recorded tonight (first since 1995!) but I'm a bit embarrassed.

[Bonegavel]

heh, anyone know where I can host a 6 MB mp3 file for your listening pleasure? OMG, I butchered Hey Hey What Can I Do and I thought others may want a good laugh to brighten their day.