Big Brown

[CU Tiger]

Who wants to bet that if he wins today UPS has him in a commercial in 2 weeks?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe he can race the truck.

[miami_fan]

I thought he was named in connection with UPS?

[Young Drachma]

UPS already has sponsorship stuff on the jockey and the horse too. Hmm...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

UPS already has sponsorship stuff on the jockey and the horse too. Hmm...

I believe they bought in right after the first win.

[CU Tiger]

well maybe fed-ex will jump on it.....

[Suburban Rhythm]

This thread isn't aboout Pumpy?

[14ers]

Last Place???

I guess this is what they call taking a dive. They announced he was 100% a couple days ago, so what happened?

I wonder where the owner had his money?

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I wonder where the owner had his money?

stuffed in the Hooters girls top

[rowech]

No doubt the results of this race made someone a very rich man. Someone or some people got paid big to make that horse take a dive.

[Zelig]

yeah, ok

[spleen1015]

No juice since 4/15. That did it.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by rowech

No doubt the results of this race made someone a very rich man. Someone or some people got paid big to make that horse take a dive.

No chance...there was a lot more to gain by winning than by finishing last.

[NoMyths]

Everything sucks/is a conspiracy.

[daedalus]

i find it sad for some of you that your first thought is conspiracy theory rather than the horse's health.

[14ers]

Originally Posted by daedalus

i find it sad for some of you that your first thought is conspiracy theory rather than the horse's health.

This was my conspiracy theory. If Big Brown had finished 3rd or 4th then maybe there was no funny business, but a dead last finish means that the horse was not 100% like his owner was claiming. And, was probably drugged out of his mind on pain killers and steroids to even allow him to race that day.

Why was Big Brown allowed to compete in the race if he was still injured? Who protects these horses from steroid injecting trainers and greedy owners?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

No chance...there was a lot more to gain by winning than by finishing last.

Even for the jockey? Don't think so. He'd be the one to not see nearly what the owner would.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by daedalus

i find it sad for some of you that your first thought is conspiracy theory rather than the horse's health.

I don't think anyone's first thought was conspiracy theory. I know it was not mine. My first thought was the horse was seriously injured. Now that the owners and trainer are still saying that Big Brown is healthy, I can understand the conspiracy talk though I don't believe any of it. For this horse, sorry for this super horse to be beaten without so much of a fight, is shocking. I don't see how this is any different in any other sport if such a heavy favorite were beaten in such fashion.

[RainMaker]

The biggest scam of all is they got someone to pay $50 million for the stud fees for him. It now looks like he was just a roided up horse.

I do have to say I'm glad he lost. I couldn't stand the trainer and the people involved with him.

[QuikSand]

I will do the conspiracy theorists here a huge favor and call their comments very ignorant.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I don't think anyone's first thought was conspiracy theory. I know it was not mine. My first thought was the horse was seriously injured. Now that the owners and trainer are still saying that Big Brown is healthy, I can understand the conspiracy talk though I don't believe any of it. For this horse, sorry for this super horse to be beaten without so much of a fight, is shocking. I don't see how this is any different in any other sport if such a heavy favorite were beaten in such fashion.

He didn't put up a fight? On the last turn he was giving it all he had and was simply bankrupt and couldn't close any ground...

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by rowech

Even for the jockey? Don't think so. He'd be the one to not see nearly what the owner would.

Or maybe it just wasn't his day? To say Kent Desormeaux was bought off is absurd.

[molson]

Originally Posted by 14ers

This was my conspiracy theory. If Big Brown had finished 3rd or 4th then maybe there was no funny business, but a dead last finish means that the horse was not 100% like his owner was claiming. And, was probably drugged out of his mind on pain killers and steroids to even allow him to race that day.

Why was Big Brown allowed to compete in the race if he was still injured? Who protects these horses from steroid injecting trainers and greedy owners?

There's no difference between 4th and last. If you're out of the money, you're out of the money. Pulling up may have been overly conservative, but he knew he wasn't going to finish in the top 3 at that point.

I didn't see an injury, he was running strong for a while. There was definite discomfort, not inconsistent with running out of gas, as so many horses do at the belmont.

I'm sure there's still funny business these days in terms of holding back horses (taking dives) to build up long odds, etc, but nobody's taking a dive rather than win a triple crown. Nobody. Big Brown left a LOT of money on the table yesterday.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, he just laid a big brown... (hey, no one had made the joke yet)

SI

[saldana]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

He didn't put up a fight? On the last turn he was giving it all he had and was simply bankrupt and couldn't close any ground...

if you watch that race, you can see the jockey's right hand working the side of the horses neck...big brown never responded to that...also all the way around the back turn, you could see how much big browns head was moving...he was already working hard before they even got to the stretch, and the other two horses were still not running full bore.

[14ers]

Originally Posted by molson

There's no difference between 4th and last.

But you messed up my Superfecta!!!

[Buccaneer]

Should he have raced if he was not 100%?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Should he have raced if he was not 100%?

Well, what's the worst that could have happened...

Oh, yeah... (insert new Elmer's glue smiley)

SI

[molson]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Should he have raced if he was not 100%?

Who knows, but a day later, there's zero sign that he was anything less than 100%.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by molson

There's no difference between 4th and last. If you're out of the money, you're out of the money. Pulling up may have been overly conservative, but he knew he wasn't going to finish in the top 3 at that point.

I didn't see an injury, he was running strong for a while. There was definite discomfort, not inconsistent with running out of gas, as so many horses do at the belmont.

I'm sure there's still funny business these days in terms of holding back horses (taking dives) to build up long odds, etc, but nobody's taking a dive rather than win a triple crown. Nobody. Big Brown left a LOT of money on the table yesterday.

Most tracks actually pay 1st through 5th, so there's no difference between 6th and last.

[cartman]

I found this interesting quote about Big Brown from back before the Preakness:

So Big Brown can't lose?

It's a horse race. Anything can happen. In 2000 Kent Desormeaux, who rides Big Brown, came to the Preakness with another sure thing, Fusaichi Pegasus. He lost to Red Bullet. "I couldn't lose, and then they opened the gate and I had no horse under me,'' says Desormeaux. ''It can happen.''

Big Brown is also due for a "bounce,'' handicapping parlance for a horse that finally produces a flat effort after one or more strong performances. However, he would have to bounce significantly to lose this race.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...own/index.html

[billethius]

Originally Posted by cartman

I found this interesting quote about Big Brown from back before the Preakness:




http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...own/index.html

Bouncing is a handicapping theory that I don't really think BB fit into all that well. Most of the time you look for a horse that had a sudden Beyer figure improvement. BB had very consistent Beyer numbers. Oddly enough, the biggest bounce theory horse in the race was probably Da'Tara.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by 14ers

Last Place???

I guess this is what they call taking a dive. They announced he was 100% a couple days ago, so what happened?

I wonder where the owner had his money?

Originally Posted by 14ers

This was my conspiracy theory. If Big Brown had finished 3rd or 4th then maybe there was no funny business, but a dead last finish means that the horse was not 100% like his owner was claiming. And, was probably drugged out of his mind on pain killers and steroids to even allow him to race that day.

Why was Big Brown allowed to compete in the race if he was still injured? Who protects these horses from steroid injecting trainers and greedy owners?

so let's see . . .

in your first post, you claim that the BIG BROWN camp took a dive. then you decide that, "well, damn it. the BIG BROWN camp weren't honest enough about the severity of his injury." those are rather drastically different theory, which is it?

QS' comment about ignorance is about as polite as can be. i would have personally gone with asstard but, shrug, i lack his class.

by the way, it has been widely noted and spleen even mentioned in a post above yours that he has not received an injection of steroid in recent time and especially not since his most recent injury. so, uhh, yeah . . . even your attempt to backtrack is asstarded. an 'oops, my bad' would have been far less dipshitastic.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by billethius

Most tracks actually pay 1st through 5th, so there's no difference between 6th and last.

true. but for the purpose of being counted as being "in the money" (record-wise), if i am not mistaken, it is generally considered 1-3.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Should he have raced if he was not 100%?

probably not but, if they knew that he was less than 100% and raced him, they are ballsy. a horse with a damn decent (if frighteningly inbred) bloodline and 2 legs of the triple crown on his resume is worth a decent couple of pennies.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Should he have raced if he was not 100%?

as far as injury went, he probably was 100%, but that doesnt mean he was in the best condition or had the best workouts leading up to the race...there are hundreds of examples of human athletes that play below their capabilites, and when they are asked what happened, say " i just didnt have it today"

[Butter]

I think the thing that is being lost here is not so much the horse that failed, but the jockey ran a wretchedly horrible race. Big Brown lurched sideways right at the start, then Desormeaux practically runs up the back of Da'Tara, possibly getting Big Brown kicked early in the race. THEN he uses up extra energy to get Big Brown to the outside to avoid a possible box in, and wastes a bunch of space by running Big Brown on the outside for most of the race.

At least give the owner/trainer credit for not claiming it was the injury that led to the loss. I think the reason people seemed so angry about this horse losing was that the jockey gave up. I am sure he knew he had no shot, and he may have saved the owner millions in stud fees by not running the horse into a serious injury down the stretch, but nobody likes a quitter.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

... but nobody likes a quitter.

Actually, watching the race at the time, I was quite proud to see the jockey pull him up. Granted, I watched the race with my heart in my throat worried about another catastrophic injury scenario, so seeing what appeared to be the jockey erring on the side of caution was something I had no problem with.

[spleen1015]

Had he not done that and the horse would have gotten hurt, there would be no end to it.

I'm glad he pulled up. I think there is a difference between quitting and slowing down to save the horse.

[flere-imsaho]

If it is not careful Horse Racing, and it's premier series, the Triple Crown (premier in the sense that it's best known amongst the general public) will become as much of a mockery as bike racing and the Tour de France have become.

I'm not saying whether or not what's going on here in horse racing is right or wrong (I don't understand the details well enough), I'm just saying that they're starting to lose a very important PR battle in much the same way as bike racing lost it over the past few years.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Had he not done that and the horse would have gotten hurt, there would be no end to it.

I'm glad he pulled up. I think there is a difference between quitting and slowing down to save the horse.

I understand why it was done. And you are right, if the horse had gotten hurt, you are looking at serious investigation into how much these horses are pumped up. You may have it anyway. Even so, it was unprecedented, as far as I know. And weak. Oh so weak.

[spleen1015]

I was surprised by my level of disappointment. As I was watching it, seeing BB fade like he did, I was nervous with disappointment. It was kind of hilarious. I guess I was really looking forward to seeing some history made.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

If it is not careful Horse Racing, and it's premier series, the Triple Crown (premier in the sense that it's best known amongst the general public) will become as much of a mockery as bike racing and the Tour de France have become.

I'm not saying whether or not what's going on here in horse racing is right or wrong (I don't understand the details well enough), I'm just saying that they're starting to lose a very important PR battle in much the same way as bike racing lost it over the past few years.

I'm a racing enthusiast, and I completely agree with this view. The states holding the main sway in the sport need to step forward right away and ban all steroids, and I think they would be well served to come up with something else as well -- like a fund to help promote proper training, research or something else that at least suggests a visible commitment to horse well-being. Just sitting back and complaining that the critics "don't get it" or that this will just blow over would be really unwise.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I'm a racing enthusiast, and I completely agree with this view. The states holding the main sway in the sport need to step forward right away and ban all steroids, and I think they would be well served to come up with something else as well -- like a fund to help promote proper training, research or something else that at least suggests a visible commitment to horse well-being. Just sitting back and complaining that the critics "don't get it" or that this will just blow over would be really unwise.

The sport probably needs some regulations to prevent the level of inbreeding going on, too.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I was surprised by my level of disappointment. As I was watching it, seeing BB fade like he did, I was nervous with disappointment. It was kind of hilarious. I guess I was really looking forward to seeing some history made.

I was disappointed, but at the same time, not nearly as disappointed as when Funnycide and Smarty Jones lost. Dutrow and Big Brown's owners are true scumbags of the sport, and it's nice to see them fail.

[miami_fan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

NEW YORK (AP) -- Trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. still blames Kent Desormeaux for Big Brown's stunning last-place finish in the Belmont Stakes, but he wouldn't object to the jockey riding the horse in his next race.

The decision of whether to change jockeys is up to co-owner Michael Iavarone, Dutrow said.

"I don't want to hurt anyone, especially Kent," Dutrow told The Associated Press on Tuesday morning in his barn at Aqueduct. "But I still don't understand what happened. I don't see the horse with a problem, so I have to direct my attention toward the ride. That's all I can come up with."

With Big Brown trying to become the first Triple Crown champion in 30 years after dominant wins in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Desormeaux eased up the unbeaten colt with a quarter-mile remaining in the Belmont on Saturday.

"I had no horse. He was empty," Desormeaux said after the race.

Dutrow insisted Tuesday he had found nothing wrong with Big Brown.

"Maybe next week if something starts going wrong with the horse, then I'll understand everything," he said.

Dutrow added: "As long as the horse stays the way that I see him right now, then things are just going to keep building up for me to know that it was the ride that did him in."

He said he hadn't spoken to Desormeaux, but "if he calls me I'll talk to him, sure."

If Big Brown is healthy, the plan is for him to run next in the Travers Stakes on Aug. 23 at Saratoga.

Dutrow had no regrets about his bombastic proclamation that Big Brown clinching the Triple Crown was a "foregone conclusion."

"It's not like I'm going to go and cry in the corner," he said as he prepared for several of his horses to run Wednesday at Aqueduct. "I've got plenty to do here."

Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[QuikSand]

Sometimes, people get quoted unfairly, or the paper/media gets something a bit wrong, or the person's comment doesn't come across reasonably without inflection or delivery...and the otherwise good person comes off seeming like a real asshole.

Rest assured, there is no such error here. He's the real deal.

[daedalus]

[14ers]

Good news for Big Brown fans. Bad news for animal lovers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/sp...7dc&ei=5087%0A

Already planning ahead for Big Brown’s next race, members of his team said Tuesday that they planned to stick with their regular rider, Kent Desormeaux, and resume the colt’s monthly treatments of Winstrol.

I guess it is back to the roids for this horse; after his last place finish. With out the horse going through roid rage he has no heart or desire to win. But, as long as his trainer can keep him pumped full of illegal steroids he should be able to win a few more races before the drugs catch up to him and kill him.

Now that we know this horse requires steroids to run, why would anyone want to breed with this horse? Although, I don't know how potent his seed would be; while the horse is all jacked up on steroids? I thought one of the side effects of steroids was that they make you sterile?

[QuikSand]

I think you have made your "point" by now.