Tankless hot water heaters

[stevew]

My gas water tank is from 1994 and I figure it is probably on its last legs here. And I'm sure it's not very efficient. I was looking into one of the new style tankless models, and was wondering if FOFC had any experience with them. The only downfall I seem to see is that I believe I only have 100 amp electric service coming into the house.

Anyone used one in a cold weather environment? I was considering an install where I leave the gas tank in place, just as an emergency backup w/ redirect valves etc. Also, since nothing in the house would run on natty gas, I was wondering if possibly I could shut off that service for 5-6 months and save the 30 or so it costs a month in the summer.

[spleen1015]

What good is a water heater if the water is already hot?

[Swaggs]

My dad has put a few of these into some remodeling jobs he has done and the owners have all been really pleased. I think I will probably look to get one in my next home.

[lordscarlet]

My downstairs neighbor has one. I wish I had installed it as well -- in a small space it can do wonders. It also saves energy by not heating water you are not using. If you want to run multiple hot water sources at once you may need to install more than one.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Our water heater recently broke and we looked into one of these, but decided against it. The unit itself was much more expansive than just getting a tank and, apparently, in some instances you may also need to get new/different piping for it. That may have only been a concern for our house since it's so old (1916).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Would love to have one myself but the installation charges here cost almost as much as the friggin' unit. Apparently it's a great rape, rob, and pillage item for contractors.

[stevew]

IAlso, has the price on these dramatically dropped in the past year or so? I thought they were several thousand dollars....now you can get one for 5-600ish. Installation, of course, still being expensive. Right now, anyways, we only have one bathroom, so i doubt i'll be using multiple hot water sources at the same time. And we usually only run the dishwasher or washing machine, but never both at the same time. Our well is kind of funny, and I don't want to stress it out with too heavy of usage. Sometimes we run out of water, but it comes back in a half hour.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

IAlso, has the price on these dramatically dropped in the past year or so? I thought they were several thousand dollars....now you can get one for 5-600ish. Installation, of course, still being expensive

I think the quote we got a couple of years ago was between $3k & $4k including installation, so yeah, it sounds like the units may have come down.

Also, be sure to check with your utility company. At the time we were looking, several were giving rebates if you went to this type of unit.

[lordscarlet]

...there could be a tax break as well, for both tankless and tank systems if they're energy star compliant.

[MikeVic]

I really want to create a parody thread titled "Thankless hot water heaters." But I vowed to myself not to create any more parodies. We need that parody thread set up asap.

[lordscarlet]

From a completely unbiased source (http://www.tanklesswaterheaters.com/takagivstank.html):

For residential customer who pays $50.00/ month on natural gas for Domestic water heating (DHW) ONLY, we project average savings of 30% based on same usage pattern. (Best way to find DHW energy cost, is to look at Natural gas bill during summer without heating.)

With usage pattern the same, savings will be average 30%. Single person 55%, two people using tank 40%, three people 35%, four people 30%, five people 25%.

Based on: $50.00/month DHW gas bill, average 30% savings, you would save $15.00 month or $180.00 per year. If tankless Takagi costs $1500.00 installed, alternative tank type water heater costs $600.00 installed, the differential of tankless is $900.00. Payback is 5 years. Return On Investment 20%.

[Castlerock]

Mine is integrated into my oil boiler so it may be a little different but I like it and I am in New England so the weather is similar. Just make sure that the amount of water it can heat is sufficient. Mine can't keep up with a full-hot shower at full-volume but a normal shower is fine.

[fantom1979]

I have sold some of these in a retail environment. It seems that people that install multiple units near point of use are having much more success then people who install one central unit. The biggest complaint I have received about the one central unit install is the limit of how much hot water you can use (about 1.5gallons per min).

[Bad-example]

Heating water is a tankless job.

There, I said it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think the quote we got a couple of years ago was between $3k & $4k including installation, so yeah, it sounds like the units may have come down.

Also, be sure to check with your utility company. At the time we were looking, several were giving rebates if you went to this type of unit.

I think around $3K-$4k including installation for tankless was the quote we got when we looked into this a few months ago when our tank rusted out. It was significantly more expensive than just getting a new tank.

[CU Tiger]

The electric versions are absolute garbage, the gas fired ones work well.

Renai, is not the best they are just the most well known. That was all the advice I got when we looked into it. NG is not available at my house so that ended my conversation.

[kcchief19]

I don't have one but I have experience with them through work and family -- I work with homebuilders and remodelers, I have an aunt who works for Grundfos, which manufactures a line. Prices have come way down. Here in KC, prices are generally $400-$600 for the water hear with installation at around $2,000. The installation is show high simply because there is so much to do in terms of routing pipes, disconnecting gas, electrical work, etc.

On the plus side is that there are tax credits for installing one in addition to the energy savings. They will pay for themselves in a relatively short time. I've heard nothing but rave reviews.

[JeeberD]

All I know about them is that my wife and I went to Fredericksburg for our first anniversary and the B&B we stayed at had this amazing spa tub, but because the tankless heater went out we never got to test it out...

[lordscarlet]

You went to Fredericksburg for your anniversary?? That's where I had my first house.

[JeeberD]

Texas, not Virginia (which is where I'm guessing your first house was)...

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Texas, not Virginia (which is where I'm guessing your first house was)...

You would be correct.

[nilodor]

Some of the newer communities are installing them here and one of my friends had one installed in his house and had no problems over the winter.

[flere-imsaho]

We looked into these as part of our remodel, but decided against, for now (mostly because our current water heater is still OK). I'll echo what some others have said:

1. Gas > Electric (although electric is good for "spot" needs, like a single appliance/shower)

2. If you're going to have a long run from the heater to the place where you need the hot water, you might be better off either a) putting multiple tankless water heaters into the system at the points of need or b) installing recirculating pumps.

It can be a great investment in some situations, though.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

We have a gas central unit. It was already in our house when we bought it. The prior owner installed it because he couldn't get the jacuzzi tub hot enough as the hot water would run out. It's a big jacuzzi to say the least. I think you'd need at least 2 hot water tanks for that one.

Anyways, it works great. Fills up the tub no problem. The only bad part is that you don't get instant hot water right out of the tap at times. Meaning for a quick hand wash, you're using lukewarm water at best, unless you wait a little bit.

[lordscarlet]

I've always had the same problem with tanks.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

True, I guess I should say the wait is longer.

[Fidatelo]

It's been about 5 years since this thread was last updated. During that period has anyone else made the leap to tankless? Does anyone know if the electric models have improved substantially? Can a current whole-home electric system service the needs of a family of 4?

We woke up to a puddle of water in the basement this morning so we need to make a bit of a quick decision over the next couple days.

[Kodos]

From what I understand, they suck.

[JPhillips]

I had a gas tankless for about three years in my old home and it was great.

[Alan T]

I have had a tankless for a few years and no complaints. We use oil to heat the house and water though (no idea if that makes a difference, I don't know anything about how this stuff works honestly). Only issue we notice is two people can't take warm showers at the same time, or when someone is taking a shower, if you run hot water in a different sink it causes issues. Perhaps thats just due to the size of my tankless heater, no idea.. but we really haven't had any huge issues with it.

[Glengoyne]

Mrs. Glen here...

Our house came with a gas tankless. Ironically, we purchased about 5 months after the original thread. We love it. The old place had a 40 gal tank, and it needed about 15 to 20 minutes between showers to recover. Also, running the clothes or dish washer with a shower was out.

My typical morning routine will have the dishwasher running, along with the clothes washer while I take a shower, and I have never lacked for a shower that could burn my back if I wanted.

Now our experience is with the gas version. I know nothing about the electric models. Good luck.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Mrs. Glen here...

Our house came with a gas tankless. Ironically, we purchased about 5 months after the original thread. We love it. The old place had a 40 gal tank, and it needed about 15 to 20 minutes between showers to recover. Also, running the clothes or dish washer with a shower was out.

My typical morning routine will have the dishwasher running, along with the clothes washer while I take a shower, and I have never lacked for a shower that could burn my back if I wanted.

Now our experience is with the gas version. I know nothing about the electric models. Good luck.

I'm in your boat. I bought a house in June of 09 that has a gas one. Love the thing. I've had it serviced twice, cost $100 each time. Plumber said if i keep it serviced every other year or so it will last about 30 years.

[nilodor]

Has anyone been keeping track of the numbers to see what their water heating costs are? I know it's kinda tough to separate out but was wondering just the same.

Also has anyone had problems with the units being loud? My father in law used to work for a gas company and his buddy installs some of the units and had heard that it was a common complaint, which I was a bit surprised at.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by nilodor

Has anyone been keeping track of the numbers to see what their water heating costs are? I know it's kinda tough to separate out but was wondering just the same.

Also has anyone had problems with the units being loud? My father in law used to work for a gas company and his buddy installs some of the units and had heard that it was a common complaint, which I was a bit surprised at.

I have a family of 4, two kids aged 5 and 7. Lots of laundry, etc, showers every night. My gas bill in the summer, when nothing else in my house is using gas is about $14-15. I get a humming sound when mine is on, I can only hear it in my master bath, which is probably about 2 feet above it (installed right near ceiling in basement). I'd compare it to a hair dryer on low/med. It's definitely no louder than my sump pump (which just went off, made me think of it). Mine is a Rinnai model R53 if that matters.

edit: Just looked it up, it's rated at 49 decibals FWIW.

[Fidatelo]

Thanks for all the input everyone. I did some of my own research and I'm not sure an electric model is worth it. For a product with enough juice to push reasonable GPMs it seems like I would need either 3 or 6 (not entirely sure which) breaker slots in my panel, which is just too many (current tank uses one).

I also discovered this evening that my current tank was not even the source of the leak, it was actually a clogged hose in my air conditioning condenser tube which sits beside the tank. Cleaned that out and hopefully that solves everything.

I will still need to replace my tank at some point, though, as it is a 2002 model with only a 6 year warranty and showing a lot of rust so I'm guessing it will go at any time. I may look into a gas powered tankless unit in the meantime although I assume the install cost will be prohibitive since I don't have gas lines running anywhere near my current tank location.

[bbor]

Being in Real estate...i have found from various people that their costs go up due to the fact that you never run out of hot water...people take longer showers!!

Honest,this is what i have been told

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by bbor

Being in Real estate...i have found from various people that their costs go up due to the fact that you never run out of hot water...people take longer showers!!

Honest,this is what i have been told

This is actually something that crossed my mind. In the era of conservation, is 'limitless' supply to a resource something that we should really aim for?