Shooting at Northern Illinois

[Izulde]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/14/uni...ing/index.html

I hope my fraternal big bro is okay... Gonna call him now.

[cubboyroy1826]

I live about 15 minutes from the school and actually attended NIU. I was shocked to see this because we are in cow country and you wouldn't expect something like this to happen. I hope everyone is okay, Neuqua used to go to NIU not sure if he is still there.

[Izulde]

My fraternal big brother is a grad student at NIU... thankfully he's okay as he wasn't on campus when it happened... but still, what a horrible event.

[PurdueBrad]

Hey guys, I teach at NIU and at the local high school. This is a huge shock in such a small community. I'll be curious to see what happens as the details leak out. Last word here is that there are 5 confirmed dead.

[Izulde]

yeah CNN is saying 5 dead as well (incl. gunman).

[molson]

Sounds like it could have easily have been a lot more killed.

I'll never get this kind of anger that results in killing total strangers.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm really hoping (and I hope this isn't too selfish/morbid) that none of the wounded or dead are any of my students from the high school. I teach seniors and a lot of my grads end up at NIU.

The course I teach at NIU only meets six times per semester but I'm fairly certain none of mine would've been in the Geo. class so I'm confident that they are all okay.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Hey guys, I teach at NIU and at the local high school. This is a huge shock in such a small community.

But apparently a community that's gaming oriented. There's also an NIU faculty member on one of the tabletop game forums I visit.

Not remotely trying to take anything away from the gravity of the situation, I'm just kind of shocked to realize that I know two people in cyberspace who both teach at the same (relatively) small school so far away.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But apparently a community that's gaming oriented. There's also an NIU faculty member on one of the tabletop game forums I visit.

Not remotely trying to take anything away from the gravity of the situation, I'm just kind of shocked to realize that I know two people in cyberspace who both teach at the same (relatively) small school so far away.

25,000 students isn't exactly small.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Izulde

25,000 students isn't exactly small.

Feel free to subsitute "relatively low profile" for "small". Or "college in a small community".

To put it in perspective, I only know three faculty members at UGA (two on are the same street as me) and I live here.

[PurdueBrad]

Six dead now, including the shooter. 16 or 17 others wounded.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Feel free to subsitute "relatively low profile" for "small". Or "college in a small community".

To put it in perspective, I only know three faculty members at UGA (two on are the same street as me) and I live here.

Fair enough.

[cubboyroy1826]

Brad which local school do you teach at? My son is at Sycamore High so just wondering.

[PurdueBrad]

Hey Cubboyroy, I'm at DeKalb High School (and we're getting a new school thanks to voters).

The numbers are now 7 dead and the shooter was a former NIU/current U of I grad student.

[Ksyrup]

One of the music boards I frequent is based in the Chicago area, so a number of them are indirectly affected by this. I think one guy is an NIU counselor, so we haven't heard from him for obvious reasons. A number of current/former students, of course. And one of the guys works for the school paper. Here's what he posted about 10 minutes ago:


Now that I've gotten a little sleep, here's what I did yesterday.

I work the for the Northern Star (www.northernstar.info) which is the student paper here at NIU. I hold the esteemed position of... flavor editor. Entertainment section. I've never dealt with this kind of news before on a real level.

I was in the office at the time working on my section for ... today's paper I guess. I was thinking about the movies my writers were going to see this weekend and then the police scanners in the office lit up about 10 after 3 p.m. Soon after all of our phones just went off one by one. The editor in chief, web editor, city editor and our adviser got cameras and notepads and ran out. I didn't know what to do at first, but thinking that if was as serious as they making it - my upcoming class and Flavor section meant absolutely nothing, so I grabbed a notebook and followed them.

We got there as ambulances were coming and going. I saw about 7 people rolled away on stretchers in the course of about 30 minutes. I didn't see anything really gory. I can't even begin to think what that must have been like for Dan or other people who called me. One of my writers said she saw a kid with a head wound as she was running from another building, and the way she said, "That was ... fucked up," I'm not going to forget too soon.

Luckily I got a call through to my Dad who I told to just call all the family to say I'm fine and that I was working... ha, my big editor said if we weren't real journalists before, we are now I guess.

After getting all the info we could from the thinning crowd on the premises, they needed someone to go to the hospital and report what they could. I went with my staff writer, Ben. We couldn't get into the hospital - the put us in the Hospice Care building next door where a PR and Marketing director fed us updates when she had them. It was a bit ... well boring since we were just waiting and waiting for new updates. It makes sense that we weren't getting access since the hospital wanted families to know first. Some of the TV news crews that were there got a little ... annoyed by this. It was surreal for me - They'd tell Ben and me that we had resume making clips in the process. But... when we remember WHY we were waiting there, phoning back reports... I would have much rather reviewed Definitely Maybe. Some were kind of... sickeningly excited by the events. One reporter from Rockford said she was doing a boring Mortgages story before getting the call. Her reaction? "Sweet Jesus, thank you." Yes, there is an undeniable adrenaline rush of covering something like this... but to actively desire it? It's that kind of stuff that makes me question whether or not I want to anything in the professional world.

We did get to see the press conference with the Hospital president and administrator, who dealt with us the best way they could I suppose. They were running a real tight ship at the hospital since they drill for emergency situations often - but of course they never experienced anything like that.

It was so insular that when Ben and I finally left around 9pm, that was when I confirmed the details that 4 people were dead on the scene, and the gunman killed himself. By that point, one person had died at the hospital. Since I went to bed, one more has died, according to reports... Anyway, Ben and I typed out a fully fleshed out story from the info we had. It's on the website - I think top story. His name is Ben Burr. He gets the byline because he's the better reporter. While I was in and out answering phone calls from friends, Little Jess included, he was taking champion notes, asking questions, calling our editor.

After that I was almost ready to leave, but then I mentioned how two of my friends were supposed to be IN THAT CLASS, but decided to DITCH at the last minute. I called them, they agreed to be interviewed, so I spent my late evening and early morning calling more people, telling them I was fine, and getting info for another story. As far as I know, my friends and loved ones are safe and sound ... but I'm getting queasy at the thought of learning names of victims.

That's about it really... It's really, really surreal to see my paper's editors talking on news channels and news shows. It's even stranger to see our images on nearly every major news publication's website. But everyone has been supportive - despite their candor before, a lot of the other news stations gave us major props for breaking the info and for being on top of our shit in general... I felt kind of proud at the end of the day that I was able to do something that helped in some way. But... I feel so shitty feeling proud for writing about this sickening situation. I just try and focus on what else needs reporting and ... try to be as less invasive and asshole-ish as possible.

Anyway, again, thanks to everyone for their thoughts. Going to NIU is going to be so different now. When people see I graduated May 2008 - they'll probably first think about this... I still don't know how to really react. I just keep going with the paper.

Dan, when this is all through - we gotta get a stiff drink.

[sachmo71]

Wow, the cowardice of these people reaches epic proportions. How does their own pain so easily turn to hate?

[lungs]

Is there any pictures up of the shooter?

I went to elementary school with somebody of the same name.... same age.... in southern Wisconsin.

[lungs]

That'd be fucked up if this is the same guy. Just last year another guy I went to elementary school (very small school, less than 100 students) along with his uncle kidnapped his uncle's ex girlfriend in Nebraska, drove back here, shot and killed a cab driver, tied another man up in a shed and left him for dead after robbing him, and then repeatedly raped the girl before shooting her.

[nfg22]

Originally Posted by lungs

That'd be fucked up if this is the same guy. Just last year another guy I went to elementary school (very small school, less than 100 students) along with his uncle kidnapped his uncle's ex girlfriend in Nebraska, drove back here, shot and killed a cab driver, tied another man up in a shed and left him for dead after robbing him, and then repeatedly raped the girl before shooting her.

sick.

[Ksyrup]

Steve Kazmierczak , 1998 Elk Grove High School yearbook

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=135599

[lungs]

Nope. That isn't him. Definitely had me wondering though.

[Ksyrup]

Here's a more recent pic:

[lungs]

Hmm... now that one does look a little like him. I thought it wasn't him when I saw the spelling as "Steven", as the guy I went to school with was a Stephen. Now I saw it on BBC spelled as Stephen.

I haven't seen the guy since we were lads, so it's harder for me to tell. But same name, same age, same region.

[Young Drachma]

Story

He had a girlfriend.

The girlfriend of the man who killed five people and himself at Northern Illinois University said Sunday that he called her early on Valentine's Day, the day of the shooting, to say goodbye.

Steven Kazmierczak "called me at midnight and told me not to forget about him," Jessica Baty, 28, told CNN from her home. She said she had no indication he was planning anything.

Investigators still haven't determined why Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at his and Baty's alma mater, and she shed no light on a motive Sunday.

"The person I knew was not the one who went into Cole Hall and did that," Baty told CNN. "He was anything but a monster. He was probably the ... nicest, (most) caring person ever."

The day of the shooting or the day after, Baty received a package from Kazmierczak containing two textbooks, a cell phone and what she characterized as a "goodbye note."

"You've done so much for me," the note said, according to Baty. "You will make an excellent psychologist and social worker someday."

Another package contained a gun holster and ammunition. She confirmed that he had stopped taking an antidepressant about three weeks ago because "it made him feel like a zombie," but she denied that his recent behavior was unusual.

"He wasn't erratic. He wasn't delusional. He was Steve; he was normal," said Baty, who had turned down Associated Press requests by phone and in person for an interview.

Authorities have speculated that the couple might have split up just before the shooting. CNN said that during the interview televised Sunday, Baty described an on-off relationship and said she and Kazmierczak most recently had been living together.

"I still love him," she told CNN.

An NIU professor who befriended Kazmierczak and Baty during their years on campus told The Associated Press earlier Sunday that Baty was upset by media reports of their relationship as rocky and abusive.

Jim Thomas, an emeritus professor of sociology and criminology at NIU, said Baty feels she and Kazmierczak were a typical young couple.

"They were two people in love with all the pains, joys, squabbles, ups/downs of any other relationship," Thomas said.

[miked]

How come they keep saying there are no warning signs. Here was a person who had been institutionalized for mental issues, for I think a year according to one article. He was taking meds, obviously still had issues. Sure, he didn't go out and post on boards about what he was going to do, but here's somebody with a history of mental illness/issues buying several guns (like the last guy).

If these things aren't warning signs, what are? Aren't there laws preventing people like this from buying weapons?

[Young Drachma]

I was a little worried by the idea that she said he called to say "goodbye" and that didn't tip her off to anything. I'd hate to really judge someone in their state of mourning and how do you really know? And it's not like it's her fault it happened or anything. But the article did strike me as weird.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by miked

How come they keep saying there are no warning signs. Here was a person who had been institutionalized for mental issues, for I think a year according to one article. He was taking meds, obviously still had issues. Sure, he didn't go out and post on boards about what he was going to do, but here's somebody with a history of mental illness/issues buying several guns (like the last guy).

If these things aren't warning signs, what are? Aren't there laws preventing people like this from buying weapons?

People get "Instutitionalized" for mental issues, for a very wide variety of things (sometimes as little as an argument with a parent) and the idea of treating them as a different class of citizens is repugnant. Taking an antidepressant certainly doesn't help predict this type of act either. Over 15 million Americans are on antidepressants. Anything that increases the stigma of seeking mental health treatment is only going to cause more of these types of problems not reduce them.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

People get "Instutitionalized" for mental issues, for a very wide variety of things (sometimes as little as an argument with a parent) and the idea of treating them as a different class of citizens is repugnant. Taking an antidepressant certainly doesn't help predict this type of act either. Over 15 million Americans are on antidepressants. Anything that increases the stigma of seeking mental health treatment is only going to cause more of these types of problems not reduce them.

I'm not saying to treat them as a different class of citizens. If somebody is institutionalized for around a year for depression and cutting themselves, that's a lot different than an argument with parents, would you not agree? Like I said earlier, a =/b, but to say there are no warning signs is a little off. The girlfriend noted that he had been purchasing weapons for "protection" earlier...in combination with his documented mental issues and issues for which he was on medication for, these things should maybe start to go noticed.

Also, I know being depressed does not predict violence, but we have to start scrutinizing these things at some point (since studies do show that certain people on anti-depressants actually have a host of negative responses, and in some contries they have put many restrictions forth).

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by miked

I'm not saying to treat them as a different class of citizens. If somebody is institutionalized for around a year for depression and cutting themselves, that's a lot different than an argument with parents, would you not agree? Like I said earlier, a =/b, but to say there are no warning signs is a little off. The girlfriend noted that he had been purchasing weapons for "protection" earlier...in combination with his documented mental issues and issues for which he was on medication for, these things should maybe start to go noticed.

Also, I know being depressed does not predict violence, but we have to start scrutinizing these things at some point (since studies do show that certain people on anti-depressants actually have a host of negative responses, and in some contries they have put many restrictions forth).

I would argue that a different set of gun laws, or any laws, is treating the mentally ill (although I do make exceptions for sex offenders which I see as a whole different matter) as a different class of citizen. This would further stigmatize that group which would further inhibit the seeking of treatment which would further jeoparidize society as more untreated mentally ill patients would be present. I'm all for more gun control laws, but to selectively target the mentally ill is a horrible idea.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

... but to selectively target the mentally ill is a horrible idea.

But it's one that is also pretty much the norm, albeit to varying degrees, already. (And I figure you know that but others in the thread might not)

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/17/6

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But it's one that is also pretty much the norm, albeit to varying degrees, already. (And I figure you know that but others in the thread might not)

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/17/6

I did know that. I also know that congress was seriously considering legislation that would create/maintain a registry of patients who had ever had a 72 hour hold on them and was considering some very dubious actions with that list. It's disgusting.

[Huckleberry]

It's going to take a little bit more than emotion to convince others that regulating the ability of mentally ill people to purchase and/or own guns is a bad idea.

Blind people can't obtain driver's licenses. That's specifically targeting people with a handicap because they present an obvious danger to society.

Call me an asshole, but crazy people with guns is a bad idea.

Certainly it's something that needs thought and care in the details of its application. But it's just plain foolish to discard it as an idea just because it hurts their feelings.

[Oilers9911]

How about making it tougher to get guns period?

[st.cronin]

The counter to your example, Huckleberry, would be something like this:

100% of all blind people driving cars are dangerous.
Less than 1% of all mentally ill people with guns kill people.

I don't actually know what the numbers are, and I'm agnostic on this issue - but this guy and the guy who pulled off the VaTech massacre, as well as the Columbine guys have several other factors-in-common: They were all male, and all students. Do we need to make it harder for students to acquire guns?

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The counter to your example, Huckleberry, would be something like this:

100% of all blind people driving cars are dangerous.
Less than 1% of all mentally ill people with guns kill people.

I don't actually know what the numbers are, and I'm agnostic on this issue - but this guy and the guy who pulled off the VaTech massacre, as well as the Columbine guys have several other factors-in-common: They were all male, and all students. Do we need to make it harder for students to acquire guns?

This is a slightly spurious argument - is a car is designed to travel from A-B - its primary use is to travel.

A gun is designed to kill and injure things: there is no other use, unless you count blowing locks off doors in 70's movies.

If you banned cars outright people would not be able to drive from place to place. If you banned guns outright people would not be able to shoot things.

Edit: rereading st cronin's post, his point is not exactly what I was addressing.

[lungs]

So it turns out that this is the guy that went to my elementary school and moved after freshman year at our high school.

Small world. That makes two murderers from my small country school.

[lungs]

dola, guess not. Madison's newspaper incorrectly reported that they were the same guy. Nothing like trying to find any local connection and reporting on it without having your shit straight.

My first guy instinct after seeing the picture was correct