Organic Food vs. "Regular" Food

[Lorena]

How does organic food compare to "regular" food? I mean aside from pestisides and unnatural ingredients, does it make that much difference in one's diet? Do you really get full with less?

We're starting with small things and are considering eventually just buying organic stuff. It's expensive but we'll have to make the switch for our son's diet.

Any comments would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Due to the higher cost of much organic food I don't go for it, but still try and go as natural as possible. If you look at ice cream, they typical ingredient list is something that can't be repeated without reading directly off the carton and even then is unpronounceable... I purchase either Haagen Daas or Turkey Hill All Natural and make sure I read the ingredients... Turkey Hill's All Natural Vanilla Bean doesn't cost any more and contains cream, milk, eggs, sugar and vanilla beans (if my memory serves me right.)

I always check the ingredients of food and try to avoid anything that I can't see myself asking someone to pass me when cooking. "Hey Dodgerchick, can you pass the partially hydrogenated monopolysorbate 86?"

[Shkspr]

The big thing to remember is that "organic" is not just a big panacea for food. Neither is "natural". There are many things we do to process food, and not all of them are just to keep it longer on the shelf. I've seen local markets sell unpasteurized organic milk at a hefty markup, but I wouldn't drink unpasteurized milk on a regular basis and expect to have grandkids.

Not wanting seaweed in your ice cream is one thing. Exposing yourself intentionally to salmonella is another. There are excellent products that are organic. There are products that are exactly the same as non-organic but cost twice as much. And there are items yow want to be processed before you eat them.

It isn't as simple as just tossing away items that have weird things in them. If you want to cut chemicals from your food, take the time to learn what goes into your food and make informed decisions about which additives are good ones and which are unnecessary.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Due to the higher cost of much organic food I don't go for it, but still try and go as natural as possible. If you look at ice cream, they typical ingredient list is something that can't be repeated without reading directly off the carton and even then is unpronounceable... I purchase either Haagen Daas or Turkey Hill All Natural and make sure I read the ingredients... Turkey Hill's All Natural Vanilla Bean doesn't cost any more and contains cream, milk, eggs, sugar and vanilla beans (if my memory serves me right.)

I always check the ingredients of food and try to avoid anything that I can't see myself asking someone to pass me when cooking. "Hey Dodgerchick, can you pass the partially hydrogenated monopolysorbate 86?"

I love Haagen Daas but we're talking about 1) a lot more expensive and 2) a lot more unhealthy. The fat content on it is through the roof (that's what makes it so yummy) when compared to other stuff.

SI

[Raiders Army]

Diet soda is better than regular soda.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I love Haagen Daas but we're talking about 1) a lot more expensive and 2) a lot more unhealthy. The fat content on it is through the roof (that's what makes it so yummy) when compared to other stuff.

SI

There is always the option of eating less of it...

This summer the grocery store had HD for $2 each... I stocked up and it lasted for a couple months.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Do you really get full with less?

No you do not.
Food is food.

[molson]

I ate almost all-"organic" for 6 months once (just because I lived in Boston without a car, and was next door to an "organic supermarket".) I didn't feel any different.

I don't have a great handle on what the stakes are in terms of diet. I feel better if I'm making an effort to eat more fruits/vegetables, and worse if I go on a brief fast-food binge. But longer term, I'm not convinced of what makes a difference. I see my 93-old grandfather, would would defenitely consider health food some kind of "hippie nonsense". I really think genetics is 95% of long-term health as long as you're reasonable.

[lungs]

I'm a farmer. I think this whole organic thing is just playing on the customers and trying to make a buck.

I notice sometimes organic meats will advertise that their meat is antibiotic free. Ummm.... all meat is antibiotic free. It's illegal to sell an animal for slaughter with antibiotics in it and all animals are tested.

rBGH free milk is another crock that milk processors are creating their own demand that doesn't actually exist. They mark up the price of the milk and don't give anything to the farmer. The milk is the same. There are no tests that can distinguish the difference. All milk has BGH in it.

I don't go out of my way to buy organic food. If there are two choices, I always pick non organic.

[Calis]

I'm not much for organic foods, but I do think it's very important to try to cut as much processed food from your diet as possible. I moved to a "clean" diet about 6 weeks ago, going with almost wholly lean protein meats and green vegetables, with fruits for snacks and such.

The only organic or natural stuff I go for are eggs. I only buy open range, Omega-3 eggs, which I think has a pretty big difference, and I use Natural Peanut Butter to keep some healthy fats in my diet.

I don't think you need to go all organic, but a clean diet can do wonders for your energy level and general mood.

[StarBuck]

Hey Dodgerchick,

Ironhead and I made the switch and we do notice a difference. I get my vitamin levels checked often due to a medical condition and they have risen. I also ache less and have more clarity.

Our topsoil is such that unlike in our parents day and before, we are not getting what we need from our food, and more than we bargained for. I believe part of the reason so many kids are sick with all these weird syndromes are due to all this added bulldookie. There are also theories that woman's health are more affected to the chemicals and stuff due to our higher fat percentage. Seems fat stores all the toxins. here in NJ, fibromyalgia "Chronic fatigue syndrome" hormonal issues, lung and breast cancer in women are on the rise.

As for the "full with less", it is thought that if your body is starved for nutrients, it will keep you wanting to eat, but I find I'm always hungry no matter what kind of diet I'm on. :-p

If you can, do it. If you have a Trader Joe's near you, they have organics much cheaper.
Just my 2 cents.

[Karlifornia]

I once bought a bag of organic Doritos....fucking bag was empty....

[StarBuck]

Yea, but did it's good vibes fill yo up?

[Lorena]

We noticed our son favors the organic food, so we'll start with the small stuff like bread and gradually incorporate other foods and see what happens.

We've heard both sides of the organic vs. "regular" food debate for a while so I was really curious. It's good to hear both sides from you guys, thanks for the feedback.

Oh and Starbuck, we don't have Trader Joe's out here but I LOVED that store when we lived in San Diego and Phoenix. Prices are decent and they have a lot of really good stuff. Out here we have Central Market and Whole Foods.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I once bought a bag of organic Doritos....fucking bag was empty....

LOL! That would make a great skit.

[ISiddiqui]

I like organic stuff every once in a while, but I don't go out of my way. Something like Trader Joe's were it is decent priced and cheap, well, that's ok. I like Whole Foods as well, but mostly because their produce and meats look very nice... don't think that's necessarily because they are organic, but rather because they are more of a gourmet supermarket.

[Warhammer]

I think most organic stuff is a crock. Use your head and you'll do fine. That said, the less processed your food is, the better it most likely is for you.

However, the reason why we have the abundance of food we do in this country is that we do use fertilizers, pesticides and the like to increase the yield per acre farmed and control insect populations that would feed on those crops.

Regarding the nutrition of the food we get, the fresh off the farm food from a non-organic and an organic farm is the same. The difference comes when you can many foods or freeze foods. The process that the food goes through to preserve it can remove some of the nutrients from it. However, that is not an organic vs. non-organic question as much as a processed vs. unprocessed.

[Telle]

From what I've read, organic vs non-organic really doesn't make much difference in the body of the person who is eating it. However, it can make a HUGE difference to the environment in which it is grown.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I think most organic stuff is a crock. Use your head and you'll do fine. That said, the less processed your food is, the better it most likely is for you.

However, the reason why we have the abundance of food we do in this country is that we do use fertilizers, pesticides and the like to increase the yield per acre farmed and control insect populations that would feed on those crops.

Regarding the nutrition of the food we get, the fresh off the farm food from a non-organic and an organic farm is the same. The difference comes when you can many foods or freeze foods. The process that the food goes through to preserve it can remove some of the nutrients from it. However, that is not an organic vs. non-organic question as much as a processed vs. unprocessed.

I would definitely say that buying local is more important than buying "organic." The fuel used to transport and store national organic produce negates the benefits of not using fertilizers and pesticides.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Telle

From what I've read, organic vs non-organic really doesn't make much difference in the body of the person who is eating it. However, it can make a HUGE difference to the environment in which it is grown.

An old thread, but I wanted to come back to this topic.

Is it just me, or is organic about locally-sourced food more than health benefits. It sounds like regardless or regular vs. organic food, health benefits really don't mean much (as long as it's fresh). Am I wrong on this?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Am I wrong on this?

No.

[Galaxy]

So are natural and organic the same thing? Or is just all fancy marketing around the whole organic/natural that gets people to buy into it and pay more (wouldn't it usually the products be cheaper if they are locally sourced) like the whole free-range meat advertising gimmick?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

So are natural and organic the same thing? Or is just all fancy marketing around the whole organic/natural that gets people to buy into it and pay more (wouldn't it usually the products be cheaper if they are locally sourced) like the whole free-range meat advertising gimmick?

Check out this thread for another conversation on the topic.

In essence, yes, it is mostly marketing if you ask me. There are more costs to producing organically and the trade-off is less efficiency in producing the product. So that's where the added cost will come in, along with the marketing.

I won't say anything bad about organic farmers, as it's a great way for a small farmer to stay small and make a decent living. My problem arises when the people marketing these organic products insinuate that the product I produce is inferior and less healthy. Then again, they need to market it as being better otherwise there would be no reason for somebody to pay extra.

Like I said, I get into a lot more detail in the other thread I linked and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer since I'm on the front lines, so to say, being a farmer.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Lorena

Oh and Starbuck, we don't have Trader Joe's out here but I LOVED that store when we lived in San Diego and Phoenix. Prices are decent and they have a lot of really good stuff. Out here we have Central Market and Whole Foods.

The closest thing we have in Austin to Trader Joe's is World Market. It doesn't have near the selection of foods that Trader Joe's has, but it does have a lot of cool stuff.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Is it just me, or is organic about locally-sourced food more than health benefits.

Organic has nothing to do with locally-sourced. Wine you buy from New Zealand can be organic. Speaking very broadly, organic means the food is raised without the use of synthetic materials (i.e. foods, fertilizers, etc...).

It sounds like regardless or regular vs. organic food, health benefits really don't mean much (as long as it's fresh). Am I wrong on this?

You are not wrong. A 20,000 calorie chocolate cake can easily be organic. The only arguable health benefits are that organic food will have less in the way of undecipherable chemicals in its ingredients list than "normal" food, and if those aren't generally healthy for you (how detrimental they are is a matter of debate), you're better off organic.

I think a lot of people think of organic food and think of stick-thin hippies eating only homemade granola. But walk into any Whole Foods and you'll see plenty of stuff there that'll make you as fat as anyone have give you a hearth attack by 50.

[lordscarlet]

First, the idea of "organic" is to keep chemicals and the like out of your body. As well as being "humane" to animals being used for their flesh.

Second, buying locally is often much more important to the environment as a whole than "organic." It decreases the use of fossil fuels, often helps maintain smaller farms, and pumps money into the local economy. In addition, small farms have a lot harder time being certified as "organic" because it can be cost prohibitive.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

I've seen local markets sell unpasteurized organic milk at a hefty markup, but I wouldn't drink unpasteurized milk on a regular basis and expect to have grandkids.

Actually, the debate of raw milke vs. pasteurized milk is that raw milk is generally better for you, especially for children. While pasteurization kills germs in the milk common in livestock, it also eliminate many of the nutrients in the milk. In that respect, there is no difference between cow milk and a human mother's milk -- and we don't pasteurize mother's milk. As a result, you frequently hear stories about how children develop illnesses passed on from the mother through her milk but the argument is that the positives out weigh the negatives.

To make unpasteurized milk safe you have to make the cows safe, which means selective breeding, keeping herds isolated and providing care to ensure that the cows producing the milk are not carrying illnesses that can be passed into the milk. That's the markup you are paying for.

I'm not saying it's the way to go. I had raw milk when I was a kid because we had our own cow, and it's pretty darn good. We normally pasteurized milk ourselves though. Pasteurized or not, as a "foodie" I'll tell you that the difference between locally produced dairy products and run-of-the-mill mass produced milk is the same as the difference between a nice fillet mignon and a McDonald's hamburger.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Lorena

How does organic food compare to "regular" food? I mean aside from pestisides and unnatural ingredients, does it make that much difference in one's diet? Do you really get full with less?

We're starting with small things and are considering eventually just buying organic stuff. It's expensive but we'll have to make the switch for our son's diet.

Any comments would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

Definitely has nothing to do with getting full with less. Eating organic is entirely about eliminating pesticides, hormones, chemicals and other unnatural ingredients from foods. Frequently that makes the food more fresh and natural, which will actually taste much better too. That can make a difference in terms of what you eat and how much you eat.

One of my favorite foods growing up were tomatoes -- couldn't get enough of them. Of course, we had our own garden so we had fresh tomatoes all the time. After I moved off the farm, I stopped eating a lot of fresh vegetables because what you get canned and even in grocery stores don't taste nearly as good as farm fresh. I've tried to get back to farm fresh to encourage a healthier diet myself but it's hard to do.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

An old thread, but I wanted to come back to this topic.

Is it just me, or is organic about locally-sourced food more than health benefits. It sounds like regardless or regular vs. organic food, health benefits really don't mean much (as long as it's fresh). Am I wrong on this?

A lot of people will tell you that you're wrong. Locally sourced food is not organic if it's packed with as much chemicals as "regular" food. At that point, the only thing you're generating with locally sourced food are environmental benefits and less tangible benefits such as economic (supporting local growers) and "food security." That's a big benefit people are pushing on locally sourced food, arguing that it would be much more difficult to tamper with the food supply if everything were local. I normally think that's a wacky argument but the salmonella out breaks with peanut butter are making me a believer, since there are some products like peanut butter that seemingly all pass through the same few processing locations.

Organic is entirely health based. You can have mass-produced organic food but it must meet certain standards regarding the lack of chemicals and other processes. Believers in organic food believe that the chemicals in "regular" food are the problem. Buying local or fresh doesn't really have anything to do with buying organic except many organic foods are local and fresh.

[johnnyshaka]

A little OT, but there is a reality show on the Food Network up here right now based on this:

100 Mile Diet: Local Eating for Global Change

The premise, you only eat food produced within a 100 mile radius. Obviously easier to do in some parts of the country than others but a very interesting idea, nonetheless.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

A little OT, but there is a reality show on the Food Network up here right now based on this:

100 Mile Diet: Local Eating for Global Change

The premise, you only eat food produced within a 100 mile radius. Obviously easier to do in some parts of the country than others but a very interesting idea, nonetheless.

That sounds great in theory, but one would by necesity have to sacrifice balance somewhat I would think.

Children could only eat fruits and vegatable in the NE US for 3-4 months of the year? That just does not sound healthy. My kids could NEVER eat bananas? That just seems wrong.

Besides, the wine produced within 100 miles of me sucks. Did anyone ever think of that?

[Ryche]

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Samdari

That sounds great in theory, but one would by necesity have to sacrifice balance somewhat I would think.

Children could only eat fruits and vegatable in the NE US for 3-4 months of the year? That just does not sound healthy. My kids could NEVER eat bananas? That just seems wrong.

Besides, the wine produced within 100 miles of me sucks. Did anyone ever think of that?

You're under the impression that fruits and vegetables only grow for 3-4 months a year? And that locally produced goods can not be stored for winter usage? And that bananas are a necessity?

I'm not saying you need to go as far as the "100 mile diet", but you can live a perfectly healthy life eating only local goods.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Definitely has nothing to do with getting full with less. Eating organic is entirely about eliminating pesticides, hormones, chemicals and other unnatural ingredients from foods. Frequently that makes the food more fresh and natural, which will actually taste much better too. That can make a difference in terms of what you eat and how much you eat.

One of my favorite foods growing up were tomatoes -- couldn't get enough of them. Of course, we had our own garden so we had fresh tomatoes all the time. After I moved off the farm, I stopped eating a lot of fresh vegetables because what you get canned and even in grocery stores don't taste nearly as good as farm fresh. I've tried to get back to farm fresh to encourage a healthier diet myself but it's hard to do.

Thanks for your info.

So organic is about chemical-free, natural foods? I see some products label as "natural". Is this the same thing?

One of my goals right now is start to become a healthy eater (not for weight purposes and such). Any great sources of info for a full, healthy diet (fruits, veggies, fish, ect.)?

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Thanks for your info.

So organic is about chemical-free, natural foods? I see some products label as "natural". Is this the same thing?

One of my goals right now is start to become a healthy eater (not for weight purposes and such). Any great sources of info for a full, healthy diet (fruits, veggies, fish, ect.)?

Sadly, it's not always the case that "natural" = organic. It's kind of deceptive advertising.

As for full, healthy diets, one of the best things I've found is to go by the "5 ingredient" rule. If the packaging has more than 5 ingredients listed, don't buy it. It kind of encourages you to buy fresh foods, raw goods, and encourages actual cooking instead of relying on pre-packaged foods. Of course, for some things (like pasta sauce), I don't have the patience to make it from scratch, so I find myself breaking that rule here and there, but as far as things I buy, I try to follow it as best as I can. Then again, I enjoy cooking..

/tk