Identity Theft hits close to home..

[Young Drachma]

So, my mom called me last night to tell me that the lady she used to work for -- she owned this daycare center -- had apparently managed to get a $52,000 business loan in my mom's name without her knowing anything from Bank of America.

She quit the job a few months ago because she was tired of working for her and got a better job, but obviously had no idea this happened.

Well, the bank called the other day and left a message for her to call them back and when she did, they told her that the account had been paid on, but she didn't even know what they were talking about since she doesn't have any accounts with Bank of America. That's when they told her the news that this business account was open in her name with them for this amount of money.

So she called the police in her town and they took a statement and all of that. I haven't talked to her today, so I don't know if she's got an update, but she said she'll call her lawyer today.

The loan was opened in July of 2006 and it's not even on my mom's credit report. The only notice of it on there is an inquiry that the bank pulled in July of '06.

But still..what a crazy situation. You hear about this stuff all of the time, but kinda surreal to have it happen to someone you know.

[MikeVic]

Weird. So it's being taken care of, happened more than a year ago... and there's no evidence that's been sent to your mom?

[Radii]

No mention of the account at all on a credit report? That's insane, are there different reporting done for business loans or something?


Identity theft is awful, I've been dealing with this for the last couple months and likely it will drag out for quite some time more, I think I've handled most everything correctly, but I keep finding little problems here and there that take hours to resolve as a result of what's happened. I consider myself lucky that I'm not in the market for a house, but the effects of even just a few nefarious things are pretty far reaching.

I've had some of my credit cards raise my rates, some of them lower my credit limits, enough was done that some of the creditors thought my home address had changed, so god only knows what random junk mail is going to this other address. I guess the good news is that since my credit is fucked until this gets resolved no one will be getting new CCs huh? I've found utility/services accounts opened in my name that don't always get reported to credit agencies.

The amount of pain caused by this, especially as in your mom's case when someone she knew did it... you just lose all sense of security. The good news is that its a felony and a lot of attention is given to the crime, so given that it happened to someone your mom knew(as opposed to random internet person getting ahold of a CC #) will make it easier to resolve and obtain some justice.

[Galaxy]

Bank of America is perheps the worst bank ever.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Bank of America is perheps the worst bank ever.

I've had great success with them, but it really concerns me greatly that there's nothing on any credit reports regarding a $50,000 loan.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, it's crazy. I helped her -- she lives in PA and I live in Wyoming and so, I've been trying to help with getting access to stuff online and whatever and so, I saw the report and saw the only mention of it was the inquiry that the bank did and nothing else on there at all.

So, she called the cops and they took the report and said that she'll be arrested and obviously, she's going to go further with it and she was actually really okay because she knows who did it, they'll be taken care of and it didn't -- thank God -- adversely affect anything that she was really trying to do.

But it still sucks a lot. I'll keep you posted when I find out more.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Weird. So it's being taken care of, happened more than a year ago... and there's no evidence that's been sent to your mom?

Ok. I'm confusing. It happened a year ago. She just found out two days ago and until then, the chick was paying on the loan in my mom's name and all was ducky because she didn't know the business loan was opened in her name and it was because this chick must've paid late on a payment and must've somehow put my mom's phone number somewhere..that they called her to say "hey, this payment is late."

By the time she called them back, the evil perpetrator had already paid it and so, the guys was like "oh, the account is current." and my mom was like "what account? I don't have any accounts at BoA?"

And that's when he told her.

But the loan was only in my mom's name and the name of the daycare center she worked at, nothing else. Not the chick who did it or anything.

So we assume she did it online, but...it's crazy it went this long and she was never alerted or found out or anything.

I'm sure more facts will manifest over the coming weeks or whatever.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Bank of America is perheps the worst bank ever.

Agreed. Its in a class by itself in terms of banks I've used. All other banks are ok, BOA is scum.

[lordscarlet]

Ugh. $800+ in fraudulant charges on my CC last month.

[Rich1033]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Ugh. $800+ in fraudulant charges on my CC last month.

Thats also known as having a wife.

[Subby]

That sucks radii - I hope they catch whoever did that to you and send them to jail for a long fucking time. That's one of the more spineless things someone can do.

[RealDeal]

Read this on wiki, and it made me wish we still allowed torture for the scum who do this. Hope this happens to whoever defrauded you, radii:

"The magistrates sentenced that the right hand of Gérard should be burned off with a red-hot iron, that his flesh should be torn from his bones with pincers in six different places, that he should be quartered and disemboweled alive, that his heart should be torn from his bosom and flung in his face, and that, finally, his head should be taken off.[1]

In the first night of his imprisonment Balthasar Gérard was hung on a pole and lashed with a whip. After that his wounds were smeared with honey and a goat was brought to lick the honey off Gérard's bruised skin with his sharp tongue. The goat however refused to touch the body of the sentenced. After this and other tortures he was left the night with his hands and feet bound together, as a ball, so he couldn't sleep. During the following three days, he was repeatedly mocked and hung on the pole with his hands tied behind his back. Then a weight of 300 pounds (136 kg) was attached to each of his big toes for half an hour.

After this half hour Gérard was fitted with shoes made of well-oiled, raw dog's leather; the shoes were two fingers shorter than his feet. In this state he was put before a fire. When the shoes warmed up, they contracted, crushing the feet inside them to stumps. When the shoes were removed, his half-broiled skin was torn off. After his feet were damaged, his armpits were branded. After that he was dressed in a shirt soaked in alcohol. Then burning bacon fat was poured over him and sharp nails were stuck between the flesh and the nails of his hands and feet"

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Read this on wiki, and it made me wish we still allowed torture for the scum who do this. Hope this happens to whoever defrauded you, radii:

LOL.....so did they ever actually kill this guy or just continue to toy around with him?

[SnDvls]

add me as another victim of ID theft. Lucky for me mine was over 5 years ago, but the hassle to get it all straightened out sucks.

One reason the loan might not show up on your mom's credit is if they used the business TIN for the loan.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm sure more facts will manifest over the coming weeks or whatever.

Did your mom's stuff ever get worked out?

I thought I was in the clear on mine, but the hits keep on coming. Just took a HUGE credit score hit for a cell phone account at another company(I knew about one that was opened at AT&T, this one apparently was opened a couple months prior at another carrier, appears to be the same person and same pattern as everything else). It went to collections and the collections account just went on my credit report.

By the way, if there's one thing almost as bad as the felons that are pulling this shit on people, its collection agencies. I called them up, explained that I have a police report filed already for a number of other things and that this sounds the same as all the other shit that was done in my name. The response from the collections guy on the phone: "I'll have to transfer you to someone else to handle the fraud report. But first, would you like to clear your name by paying your account?" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Then he transferred me to a voice mailbox that was full and hung up on me.

[Young Drachma]

Oh right. I meant to dredge this thread up once the story was in the paper.

They did arrest her former boss and she was released on bail. It'll go to trial sometime next year, though I keep thinking that since she turned herself in rather than them putting out a warrant, that her lawyer might induce her to try to plea so she won't get any jail time, since it's her first offense.

Identity theft doesn't carry much of a penalty in Pennsylvania, but theft by deception could yield her some jail time if they know what this lady did during the police's investigation (producing fraudulent documents to say my mom owned part of her business..) and so anyway..we shall see what comes out of it.

But this is still further than we expected it to go, because at first glance..they basically told my mom that there was nothing they could do for her. So to get them to actually get enough evidence to arrest her is big.

[Radii]

Well, it sucks that the fact that there was simply an arrest made is a big deal, but given the situation, its great that they were able to do that. From what i can tell, identity theft is talked about very seriously but when it comes to actually doing anything about it law enforcement is still slightly behind the times, but a lot better off than it was a few years ago I guess.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, identity theft is just a $1000 fine is convicted. And even that's not automatic, because I think it takes some sort of act from the attorney general to do it. The theft by deception thing carries a max penalty of $15k and up to 7 years. No way she gets the max since it's her first offense, though.

Considering all she can do is lie and she has no defense other than the lie she's been trotting out that my mom was a partner of hers, I don't know how it'll go to trial. But we'll find out..

[Radii]

That's crazy. In Georgia identity theft is a felony with max penalties similar to this "theft by deception" thing. Do you know what hte functional difference is between "identity theft" and "theft by deception" ? the written laws in Georgia actually call it "identity fraud" and state that its a felony to use someone else's identifying information without their knowledge or consent to obtain anything of value. Its pretty straightforward it seems.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It'll go to trial sometime next year, though I keep thinking that since she turned herself in rather than them putting out a warrant, that her lawyer might induce her to try to plea so she won't get any jail time and can be out in a week to steal someone else's identity.

Yup.

[Young Drachma]

§ 3922. Theft by deception.

(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of theft if he intentionally obtains or withholds property of another by deception. A person deceives if he intentionally:

1. creates or reinforces a false impression, including false impressions as to law, value, intention or other state of mind; but deception as to a person's intention to perform a promise shall not be inferred from the fact alone that he did not subsequently perform the promise;
2. prevents another from acquiring information which would affect his judgment of a transaction; or
3. fails to correct a false impression which the deceiver previously created or reinforced, or which the deceiver knows to be influencing another to whom he stands in a fiduciary or confidential relationship.

(b) Exception.--The term "deceive" does not, however, include falsity as to matters having no pecuniary significance, or puffing by statements unlikely to deceive ordinary persons in the group addressed.

That's from the Pa. statues. I have no idea what they'll try to say, other than using her identity didn't injure her since the lady was paying the loan up. But the fact that she obtained the loan fraudulently should be enough. And you're right, she'll no doubt do it again because she's got a history of being sneaky and my understanding is that she's been sued before in civil court by a former business partner.

So...I dunno. Ideally, there could be some civil suit out of this regardless, because the entire process was screwy and BoA will try to play it off like it wasn't their fault, but they're just as guilt as she is for enabling the shit to happen without an actual signature to begin with. Unless this hoe forged the signature.

And boy o' boy...that would be rich if she did. But who knows...

[SnDvls]

your mom should sue for her share of the lost revenue of "owning" the business

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Radii

Did your mom's stuff ever get worked out?

I thought I was in the clear on mine, but the hits keep on coming. Just took a HUGE credit score hit for a cell phone account at another company(I knew about one that was opened at AT&T, this one apparently was opened a couple months prior at another carrier, appears to be the same person and same pattern as everything else). It went to collections and the collections account just went on my credit report.

May karma give this person a swift boot to the head.

(heck, same with the collection asshat)

[Radii]

Not the type of thread you want to be bumping, eh?

Well, today I learned of two checking accounts that were opened in my name and SSN during this same time frame last year, again from getting a call from a collection agency today. the good news this time is that nothing has been reported to a credit bereau yet, so the extra annoying hassle of having to get my credit report cleaned up, in addition to the fraudulent accounts, is a step that I shouldn't have to go through. I do get to go through another round of affidavits, police reports, banking security departments who may or may not believe me at all(some have been "nicer" than others over the last year or so).

And, a wonderful new twist has been added to the equation. Now that I've moved back home to help care for my ailing parents, whenever a collection agency decides to "track me down" they find my current address, and, you guessed it, my parents phone number. So they get the calls first, and get to go through all the worry of thinking their kid is in some sort of trouble. The last thing in the world my parents need is more calls from collection agencies(they have their own problems!)

The time it takes to deal with this isn't even the worst thing, or the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude that some creditors have when they deal with you. When the person committing ID theft is a former acquaintance that betrays your trust in such a way, you really just want to move on and get away. You never want to hear from or about that person again, because having someone you thought was a friend commit a felony against you really, really fucks with you. But with something like this on even a medium-level scale(I know about 8 different accounts so far, some ID thefts are much worse), it doesn't ever really go away, because you have no idea how much other information was stolen and how your name is being used out there.

[stevew]

radii, have you considered something like lifelock? I dunno how it works personally, but hopefully it could keep some of the bad things from happening. It might not even work on utilities. Repeat ID thieves need to get hit by a car.

[thesloppy]

For whatever it's worth, Lifelock has been sued by Experian for overstating their abilites, and they're also being sued by several of their own customers for fraud, after their CEO's identity was stolen.

[Lathum]

great country we live in

[Young Drachma]

My mom's case went to preliminary hearing and it was all sorts of shenanigans by her former boss. They're in the midst of waiting to hear whether it'll go to trial or (more likely) her former employer will plea out and be done.

[cuervo72]

Good heavens, this is *still* going on?

You never want to hear from or about that person again

Best of luck with this.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Radii

Not the type of thread you want to be bumping, eh?

Well, today I learned of two checking accounts that were opened in my name and SSN during this same time frame last year, again from getting a call from a collection agency today. the good news this time is that nothing has been reported to a credit bereau yet, so the extra annoying hassle of having to get my credit report cleaned up, in addition to the fraudulent accounts, is a step that I shouldn't have to go through. I do get to go through another round of affidavits, police reports, banking security departments who may or may not believe me at all(some have been "nicer" than others over the last year or so).

And, a wonderful new twist has been added to the equation. Now that I've moved back home to help care for my ailing parents, whenever a collection agency decides to "track me down" they find my current address, and, you guessed it, my parents phone number. So they get the calls first, and get to go through all the worry of thinking their kid is in some sort of trouble. The last thing in the world my parents need is more calls from collection agencies(they have their own problems!)

The time it takes to deal with this isn't even the worst thing, or the "guilty until proven innocent" attitude that some creditors have when they deal with you. When the person committing ID theft is a former acquaintance that betrays your trust in such a way, you really just want to move on and get away. You never want to hear from or about that person again, because having someone you thought was a friend commit a felony against you really, really fucks with you. But with something like this on even a medium-level scale(I know about 8 different accounts so far, some ID thefts are much worse), it doesn't ever really go away, because you have no idea how much other information was stolen and how your name is being used out there.

Whoever did this to you is a disgusting pig. I hope they catch that fucking criminal and stuff them in jail for a long long time.

Sorry you have to keep going through this.

[Huckleberry]

My wife had a problem a few times with an old PO box. Obviously UT had sent her something there and so they got her SSN (UT used to use SSNs as your student ID numbers - don't know if they still do).

So she kept getting credit cards opened in her name with that PO Box as the mailing address. Multiple times we called the credit bureaus and told them not to accept applications with that name and that address. Then I called the local law and told them about it. They told me that since she now lived in a different area it was that new area's jurisdiction. So I called the new law. They said the theft happened in the old area so it's their jurisdiction.

I had a freaking PO Box that these people obviously still checked because that's where the new cards were mailed. I called the Postmaster General in the old area and explained the situation. He told me he couldn't do anything without a warrant from local law enforcement (although he let slip that the box was indeed still active and that they used it fairly frequently). But just like the credit card companies he wouldn't give me a name because of "security reasons." Neither he nor the credit card companies were pleased with my response that their security obviously sucks so what's one more slipup?

Nobody wanted to get off their ass and do anything.

Eventually I called the old area's law enforcement and told them that if they didn't do anything about it I was going to go sit by that PO Box and wait for the punks to check their mail and then there would be a confrontation. Finally the old area said they would discuss the situation with the postmaster general. I never heard from them again, but the last situation happened 4 or 5 years ago. I guess the credit bureaus finally put the fraud alert on my wife's name with that PO Box.

The biggest kicker in all this was that they were using my wife's maiden name with her SSN. She changed that pretty much as soon as we got married. So the name/SSN combo the thief was using made it pretty obvious that it wasn't my wife opening the accounts. Not that the first couple of credit card phone operators could figure that out.

[QuikSand]

What really sucks is that in so many cases, especially in those involving people you know/knew, the culprit is actually identified without any doubt, even by law enforcement, but there's still no real punishment involved. You read about the effect that this sort of thing has on the victims, and it's more than just financial loss or inconvenience -- it's really jarring and violating, and it lasts a long time. Really sucks that too many of these cases just get swept away.

[SnDvls]

Radii - you can have a flag put on all 3 credit reporting companies files that will not allow any new accounts or credit to be opened in your name with out a phone call 1st. While it is a problem if you are in immideate need of an answer for a car loan, in the long run it's well worth it and free. All you need to do is send a letter (I used certified so I had proof I sent it in) to them explaining that you are a victium of ID theft and give them your info (Name, DOB, SS#, police report could help too) and a phone number that must be called to verify your information before any account can be opened in your name.

It's worked for me that is for sure. Shoot me a PM if you want more info on it it what I had to do to get my name cleared up.

[SnDvls]

dola - should have added that this is exactaly what Lifelock does for a fee

[Morgado]

Damn, radii - sorry to hear that this is still ongoing. I guess one positive is that you're not friends anymore with whoever the hell is responsible for this. What a terrible person they must be. You can put that cretin into my big box of "people that society would be better off without."

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Morgado

Damn, radii - sorry to hear that this is still ongoing. I guess one positive is that you're not friends anymore with whoever the hell is responsible for this. What a terrible person they must be. You can put that cretin into my big box of "people that society would be better off without."

+1

[Lorena]

Damn Radii that's horrible! I hope the piece of shit that did this goes to jail for all the crap they're putting you through. Freaking scum.

We had identity theft close to home as well. The woman Ant's brother married is complete and utter scum, worse than you can possibly imagine. Shortly after my brother-in-law passed away, we found out she stole money from our daughter's account (about 400 bucks), opened some kind of insurance policy for my brother-in-law for cancer (wtf?!), and over a year ago, she opened a $20,000 credit card under my mother-in-law's name. She found out like DC's mom did with a phone call that stuff wasn't getting paid. Ugh, just thinking about this woman and all the crap she's done to our family makes me shake with anger. My mother-in-law actually saw this woman coming out of a store with shopping bags! Probably using one of the many credit cards she opened under her name. Ugh, I gotta stop cuz my insides are boiling right now.

Hope it works out for you Radii, DC's mom, and Huckleberry.. people like this deserve the worst.

[Morgado]

Originally Posted by Lorena

Damn Radii that's horrible! I hope the piece of shit that did this goes to jail for all the crap they're putting you through. Freaking scum.

I'm agree.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

For whatever it's worth, Lifelock has been sued by Experian for overstating their abilites, and they're also being sued by several of their own customers for fraud, after their CEO's identity was stolen.

This had been on my radar but looks too good to be true,and it sounds like it probably is. Its pretty awesome that the CEO's identity was stole, assuming that's true. The commercials where the guy just gives his SSN out and says "go ahead, try it" are pretty funny.

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Radii - you can have a flag put on all 3 credit reporting companies files that will not allow any new accounts or credit to be opened in your name with out a phone call 1st.

I've done this, fraud alerts on all three. I need to renew it soon I think. There's a long term(I think it lasts for 6 years) alert that can be used but I've had multiple security officials(police investigator that I did my first police report with, and one of the security people at one of the banks involved) recommend against using the long term one unless I felt I absolutely had to. Basically what I was told was that many creditors will see that on your report and just decide that you aren't worth the impending hassle to deal with and will deny your request for credit up front, and of course its totally within their rights to do so. The shorter term ones do the same things and can be renewed as many times as you want.

Another interesting, but extremely aggressive, thing that's out there is a complete credit freeze: Some states allow freezing of credit reports (Page 1 of 2)

That's a step I'm a bit afraid of too, but I know its there and am keeping an eye on the possibility.

Not related to trying to prevent credit usage, I am also a fan of Equifax's score watch product: Equifax Score Watch: Monitor FICO Credit Score to Improve Credit



The stuff showing up in the past few months have been lingering accounts that don't get into "trouble" as easily, that don't normally get reported to credit agencies unless there is serious neglect, utilities, cell phones, and apparently now checking accounts. *Hopefully* I've done enough to prevent new things from being opened, and hopefully these old accounts will all eventually turn up and get taken care of. I'm not counting on it, but I'm hopeful!

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

(UT used to use SSNs as your student ID numbers - don't know if they still do).

Working in healthcare technology I see the setup of most of the insurance companies in the US. Its pretty stunning that a not-insignificant number of insurance companies still use SSN as the identifying number for healthcare. Its so easy to get for many people

Then I called the local law and told them about it. They told me that since she now lived in a different area it was that new area's jurisdiction. So I called the new law. They said the theft happened in the old area so it's their jurisdiction.

Another HUGE problem. From the research I've done it seems like this was a big problem 5-8 years ago but is getting better. Law enforcement in many places still has no idea how to handle ID Theft. Laws apparently differ drastically, higher up in the thread I remember Dark Cloud saying its a small crime with a small fine associated with it. In Georgia its a felony, but apparently hard as hell to get a conviction no matter how obvious the evidence.

But just like the credit card companies he wouldn't give me a name because of "security reasons." Neither he nor the credit card companies were pleased with my response that their security obviously sucks so what's one more slipup?

I've noticed very different responses from different places. One credit card company basically gave me enough info to confirm who it was(the person who did it was telling me a number of lies while I was still tracking everything down). This one CC Company sent me one of the credit card statements with a list of purchases, and the location and types of purchases blew out all the lies I was being told and made everything very clear. Others were reluctant to give me anything at all, even though the accounts were in my name and SSN.

I never heard from them again, but the last situation happened 4 or 5 years ago. I guess the credit bureaus finally put the fraud alert on my wife's name with that PO Box.

Hopefully it never comes back up again either!

[Noop]

Wow. What a shitty human being.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by Noop

Wow. What a shitty human being.

[Eaglesfan27]

+2. I can't believe those kind of people can brush aside the pain they cause so callously.

[digamma]

Really sorry to hear you are still going through this radii. Really shameful stuff.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Radii

Another interesting, but extremely aggressive, thing that's out there is a complete credit freeze: Some states allow freezing of credit reports (Page 1 of 2)

Clark Howard recommends this in cases like yours. It is extreme but will prevent 90% of this stuff.

[Subby]

So is oliegirl getting banned? If not I would be more careful than ever about sharing personal details about yourself on this board.