05-16-2007, 11:37 PM | #1 | ||
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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College Baseball (Noob Q's)
Ok, so I'm bordering very closely to becoming a serious college baseball fan. I'd never really even watched a game, but in the last few weeks have attended several Wichita State games, and have caught the bug. I think I'm becoming a college baseball fan. It's just been a blast, I've always had a love/hate relationship with the MLB, and haven't seriously watched it in probably 12-13 years, but I do keep up with the scores. It's of course a whole different experience going to a ball game live, and I've caught the bug. Unfortunately the season is ending, and I realize this is a very different game than the pros.
I guess I'm just here looking for some basic knowledge about college baseball vs. the pro's. Pitchers, is the tendency when they're young to over or under pitch them? What I've seen so far they seem to pull them pretty quickly, but I wasn't for sure how that worked. Are they more likely to get injured because of bad mechanics when they're younger, or does their youth give them added protection against injuries? How often do they pitch? You usually have several days off during the week, so do they still maintain like a 5 man rotation, or do they go down to a 3? Any good books on the college baseball experience? Maybe a biography or any story in general, hell even a novel. I've not had any luck finding anything. Is it pitcher or batter dominated? Or is there just a HUGE level of difference (Which I assume). From the games I've seen they've been pretty much pitcher dominated, but I also think that Wichita State has a phenomenal pitching staff(Schaffer, Banwart, Musgrave, etc..) and the hitters..not so great. I know I see lots of high scoring affairs also though, so is it just the difference between the good and bad pitchers is so high? Do pitchers tend to reach a higher level sooner than batters or later? I'm also interested in how exactly the College Tournament and World Series works. It seems like the conference tournaments or mostly double elimination right? Then the regionals for the tourney aren't decided beforehand right? How are they decided, purely by an "RPI"-like stat? Or does a committee decide based on standings plus drawing power, etc... I'm not sure how that whole process works, but I imagine I'll be following it finally this year. Anyway, that was a load of questions but any help would be appreciated. I'm relatively a baseball newbie in general, as I've always only sparingly followed it but have really got into it this year. Heh, I've already found out info on a Summer College team that's going to be playing right nearby, and am planning to get to all those games I can. |
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05-16-2007, 11:43 PM | #2 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Oh yeah, furthermore..what's the retention rate for kids in college baseball?
Do they great prospects skip college all together for minor league deals ala the NBA or are you better off going to school to play? Do lots of kids leave early? |
05-16-2007, 11:44 PM | #3 |
Dark Cloud
Join Date: Apr 2001
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My understanding is, the best players often skip college baseball, because once you commit to a college, you have to spend three years there.
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05-17-2007, 05:54 AM | #4 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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I'm not an expert on the subject but I can answer a few of these I believe.
3 man rotations are the norm for most teams, at least as far as the weekend series (usually conference games) are concerned. Mid-week games, usually non-conference matchups, are handled differently depending upon the team. Some seem to have at least a semi-regular 4th starter while others employ a by-committee strategy, putting guys on pitch counts & knowing ahead of time that they're going to use several pitchers that day & it doesn't seem to matter who starts (GT gave their struggling former closer his first career start last week for example). As for the post-season, conference tournaments tend to be double-elimination affairs, often not including every team in the conference (ACC & SEC have gone to 8 teams for example, division winners or top 2, plus the next 6/4 best conference records regardless of division). The NCAA then selects a total of 64 teams for play across 16 regionals, with hosts determined by a bid process. Often the hosts are among the top 16 seeds but not always, as you'll see seeded teams playing on the road occasionally. Once they're down to 16 from double-elmination play, it's then on to Super Regionals, best of 3 series played at 8 sites. The eight winners there advance to the College World Series in Omaha for double elimination play in two brackets that produces the eventual pair that will play in the best-of-three championship series.
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05-17-2007, 06:57 AM | #5 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cary, NC, USA
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In terms of the great prospects - typically, if a player is selected in the first round, they'll almost always go to the minors. Selected in the 2nd-3rd, there's a 50/50 shot, below that it's a tossup. GT usually has maybe 14-15 players committed, and will lose 3-4 to the minor leagues, but they're a perennial top 10 team. Wichita State is, I believe, in a similar scenario; but a middle-of-the-road team will typically lose less players, because they won't be attracting the top round draft picks.
In terms of pitch counts and the like - bear in mind that age-wise, these guys are minor-leaguers and at times major-leaguers. Particularly by the time a pitcher is a Junior, you can use him the same way you'd use any MLB rookie in terms of body development. |
05-18-2007, 10:52 AM | #6 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Thanks a bunch for the help guys, cleared up a lot of things. Is the bid for a regional a last minute deal? Does it happen officially after the conference tournaments, or is it decided slightly beforehand? I ask because looking around at different sites I see it almost written in as Wichita State hosting one of those regionals.
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05-18-2007, 10:59 AM | #7 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Federal Way, WA
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Quote:
You have to play 3 years or until your 21st birthday. If you've played only 2, but your 21st birthday is right before the draft, you can be drafted. |
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05-18-2007, 04:11 PM | #8 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
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A lot of prospects go the JUCO route, since you can take off whenever.
College baseball is a great sport sine they deadened the bats. The highest level is the equivalent of AA ball, skill-wise, and is still old school pitching, speed and defense. A lot of baseball purists would enjoy it, I think. |
05-18-2007, 04:38 PM | #9 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
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Quote:
Except for that damn PING sound... |
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05-18-2007, 04:58 PM | #10 |
College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Federal Way, WA
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05-19-2007, 11:07 AM | #11 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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What is with the use of aluminum in college as well? Is it a money factor or is there something else? What exactly are the big differences, from what I can tell the main one being that ball flies off the bat much quicker than with wood. What else are the major differences?
I'm liking the ping sound as well. Any good forums or sites for college baseball news? I've only ran across a few and they appear to all be pay and not cheap. |
05-20-2007, 07:47 PM | #12 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chicago
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Aluminum is almost always lighter in terms of the length to weight. (inches to oz) Most wood bats are -0 or -1, meaning the length is 33 inches to the weight being 32 or 33 oz. Aluminum bats at the collegiate level are -3, 33 inches, 30 oz, etc. Also you can hit balls off the end and on the handle and still hit them pretty decent with aluminum bats. With a wood bat, it would just break them and the ball wont travel that far..
Financially I think aluminum makes more sense. I play college ball, and we are using bats the whole time we are at school. Meaning we get there in the fall and we constantly hit until this time. If we used wood, we would go through a lot more bats, while with aluminum normally players will go through (if they play everyday, and depending on how picky they are) 2-4 bats all year. With wood bats, the number of bats for each player would go way up, and the price for a good wooden bat is not cheap. |
05-25-2007, 06:36 PM | #13 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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with the changes coming next year to college baseball you'll be seeing more weekday games vs. a weekend series and most teams will need 4-5 starters as well. The NCAA is making a change to next season by shorting the "season" by a month but still having to play the same number of games. So a two game series on Tues-Wed will be common followed by a 3 game series on Fri, Sat, Sun.
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05-25-2007, 06:43 PM | #14 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Chicago
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Also big changes in regards to transfers... You don't get your "one free transfer." This will make coaches from down south have to scout a kid from Indiana per se more than once before they offer a little money. Also there will be a limit on number of players making sure the bigger programs dont offer roster spots and scholarships that they inevitably will get rid of, leaving kids out to dry.
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05-25-2007, 06:49 PM | #15 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
this won't stop it from happening...ASU have like 35 offers out for next year with almost 12-20 of them probally taken in the MLB draft. You won't see this change until MLB only drafts 2-year college players. it's the nature of the beast. |
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05-25-2007, 08:05 PM | #16 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Federal Way, WA
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Quote:
Thats Turtle Thomas's MO, he offers even if they look to be a lock to be drafted high enough to sign with MLB. It gets him a few really good prospects every year, but it can make it difficult to build a complete team when you aren't sure which of the players will sign and which won't. |
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05-25-2007, 09:08 PM | #17 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Quote:
Are they pushing back the start date or shortening the end? I was kind of shocked to see it starts in February, that makes for some rough baseball in a lot of places. |
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05-27-2007, 04:08 PM | #18 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Regional hosts announced today
Arizona State Arkansas Coastal Carolina Florida State Long Beach State Missouri North Carolina Ole Miss Rice San Diego South Carolina Texas Texas A&M Vanderbilt Virginia Wichita State Very excited to see Wichita State on there, and I'm sure a lot of people are surprised. I didn't think we'd up getting one, but this is great. I'm just waiting to order my tickets now. |
05-27-2007, 04:33 PM | #19 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
actually it's ASU's MO too that's why they have a top 15 class year in and year out. But it's nice to have Turtle on staff to help too |
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05-27-2007, 04:35 PM | #20 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
not sure which. I'd imagine shortening it on the end so that most schools finish while still in school, but I don't know for sure...I'm sure ncaa.org or some of the better college baseball sites know more/better than I |
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05-27-2007, 05:10 PM | #21 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Got some linkage for this? After going through a bunch of articles that talked mostly about the new transfer & scholarship rules, I finally found a reference on the ncaa.com blog that said the board of directors approved (in April) the recommendations of the "Baseball Academic Enhancement Working Group". And finally I found their recommendations in full. http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/gove...nhancement.htm If you scroll down to the section about additional penalties, it does talk about forcing a 10% season reduction in games & limiting the season to 119 days for schools that fail to meet academic improvement benchmarks. If that was implemented today (instead of the actual 09-10 implementation date), it would have affected 47 schools. I'm not saying you're wrong about what you said, I just can't find anything anywhere that has the details.
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05-27-2007, 05:26 PM | #22 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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05-27-2007, 05:53 PM | #23 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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One odd thing about college baseball is that relatively few players are on full scholarship. In basketball and football, a guy is either a walk-on or a scholarship athlete; in baseball and hockey, most guys are somewhere in between.
I think schools only get about 12 scholarships total for baseball, which gets divided up amongst the players. |
05-27-2007, 06:36 PM | #24 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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05-27-2007, 06:38 PM | #25 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
they are expanding this a bit too. 23 players per team with a 33% scholarship with a max of 8 walk-ons per team too. |
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05-27-2007, 07:30 PM | #26 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Thanks. Now I understand why I couldn't find it, these were changes actually made almost a year & a half ago that take effect this coming fall. I kept looking for something that happened in connection with the recent batch of changes. My bad.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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05-27-2007, 09:23 PM | #27 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
that's okay I didn't know when the changes happened either I was actually suprised by it. It appears that it all was part of the change that happened a year or two ago for the North & East schools to be able to play more home games early in the year. This is really going to hurt schools that don't have a lot of teams around them to play midweek games though. |
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05-28-2007, 11:58 AM | #28 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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And the field of 64 is announced.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2884784 All the hosts were #1 seeds which I believe I read is the first time that's happened since this setup started. Now I've got to find a way to get off work to get to all the games. |
05-28-2007, 01:20 PM | #29 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
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Quote:
I'm jealous of you. I wish I was up there. My beloved UNO Privateers are playing your Shockers in the first round (hey Pumpy, you out there?!? We made it, dude!!!!!). It's been a long, hard road for us. We were 20-39 two years ago and a complete mess. THEN Katrina hit and we were exiled to New Mexico. We've come a long, long way in a short time. This season has been one of the most special experiences of my sports fandom life. Enjoy the regional, it's going to be a blast for you guys. I'm crossing my fingers that we'll be good enough to host one before too long. |
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05-28-2007, 01:43 PM | #30 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hog Country
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We are going to try to get to a regional game in Fayetteville this weekend. Will probably be tough since we have trouble finding tickets to regular season games most of the time. I believe Arkansas led the nation in attendance this year? If not, it's close.
Tough draw though, Albany, Oklahoma State and Creighton. Excited to get a #7 national seed so we can host a super-regional if we make it through this mess. |
05-28-2007, 01:57 PM | #31 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Quote:
That's cool, that's a good story, unfortunately I hope it doesn't have a happy ending. Any info on UNO? Who are the kids to watch? I know Oral Roberts was a Super Regional team last year, and they look like they could be a very tough team as well. It should be fun. As for Arkansas, yeah that's a VERY tough regional. Oklahoma State as your #3 is pretty brutal. Creighton is an incredibly dangerous team as well. Also fun to watch, and you can watch Venditte pitch with either hand. Real tough draw for Arkansas. |
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05-28-2007, 02:24 PM | #32 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Austin, Texas
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OSU is overrated. The Big 12, like in most sports, has one good team and a bunch of mediocre crap. They do have 3 tough hitters in the middle of their lineup and their head coach is the best pitching coach in baseball, but they are nothing special overall. Creighton is tough.
Texas got the easiest road to Omaha they've had since they "had" to play Penn St. in the supers years ago. They better make it there. |
05-28-2007, 02:26 PM | #33 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hog Country
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Well yeah if I'm not mistaken Arkansas pitched a no-hitter at OSU this season. It seems like that happened. If not, we at least beat them easily. Still, that's a bigger name than I'd like to see filling that spot.
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05-28-2007, 02:47 PM | #34 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
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Quote:
I don't think there are any easy outs in the Wichita regional. Looking at the pairings it looks to me like UNO was the top-rated #4 seed, since they were sent geographically out of their way to play the lowest-rated #1 seed. The Privateers do not have a dominant starting pitcher. We do, however, have a staff of seven or eight "pretty good" pitchers, more than a lot of college teams have, which enabled us to win a very difficult Sun Belt tournament. The Shockers will score some runs on us, though, I'm sure. We never shut teams down. However, we are the 4th-ranked home run hitting team in the country. We can be shut down by great pitching, as anyone can, but anything less than that and we can mash. Our biggest weakness is the left side of the infield defensively. Anything hit to 3rd or short is an adventure, and that has cost us several wins this year. The two big guns offensively are Johnny Giavotella (voted best sophomore second baseman in the country by Baseball America I think?? not sure) and TJ Baxter, third baseman. Oral Roberts and Arizona are both very tough as well. Solid regional. What is Wichita's park like dimensions-wise? We may struggle a bit more in a larger park. I'm hoping against hope this will be televised back down here but am not optimistic. If you hear about any TV coverage anywhere, let me know. |
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05-28-2007, 03:00 PM | #35 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Quote:
I don't think they played this year actually. I didn't think OSU was rated highly anyway, so I'm not sure if they're overrated. Are they great? Nah, but they're not slouches. Wright, Mach, and Brown are pretty nasty. I wouldn't pick them over Arkansas or Creighton however. An Arkansas/Creighton match-up would be fun to watch. Yeah Texas got a great one, they shouldn't have much of a problem. |
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05-28-2007, 03:13 PM | #36 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Quote:
Great, thanks for the info. Sounds like they'll match up well against us. I think you'll be ok with pretty good pitching as I've been really dissapointed with our offensive production lately. They're struggling, but we have some outstanding pitching, and Aaron Shafer is finally back from injury, and did an outstanding job in his first start back in the MVC tourney. I'm anxious to see him pitch a little more freely now that he's had some time. We have a tough staff. Looking through one of my programs here and pulled the dimensions on the stadium looks like.... 330 (Left Field) 375 (Left Center) 390 (Center Field) 375 (Right Center) 330 (Right Field) Not really sure how this compares with other college parks. |
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05-28-2007, 03:34 PM | #37 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Little Rock, AR
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Memphis got in!!
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05-28-2007, 03:35 PM | #38 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
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Quote:
Sounds like about average down the lines and in the alleys, but a short center field. I know UNO's park has the same dimensions except for a 405 center field. Who do you think gets the opening game start for the Shockers? Shafer? No matter how much WSU is scuffling offensively you can usually count on a few runs from our infield miscues, if nothing else. I think you will see Justin Garcia on Friday for us. Pretty good stuff but prone to getting lit up now and then. |
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05-28-2007, 03:44 PM | #39 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Quote:
I would guess Travis Banwart will be starting it out. He's the #1 pitcher and has been the whole season even though Shafer has overshadowed him. Reports are he'll get picked pretty high in the draft this year and he throws about a 94 mph fastball. I've heard he had control issues in the past, but he seems solid since I've been following him. |
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05-28-2007, 03:52 PM | #40 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
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Quote:
Whew, I was just looking at WSU's stats. Y'all have a ridiculous pitching staff. Four starters or parttime starters with ERAs under 3, in a relatively small yard. We'll have our work cut out for us, although soft tossers have tended to give us the most trouble. |
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05-28-2007, 04:26 PM | #41 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hog Country
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Quote:
Must've been last season. Seems like this season, though. |
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05-28-2007, 04:39 PM | #42 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hog Country
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Dola:
yep it was last season. 3 pitcher-combined-no-hitter. http://www.hogwired.com/ViewArticle....&ATCLID=236533 |
05-29-2007, 08:14 AM | #43 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Texas got screwed in the regional selection. UC-Irvine is the best #2 seed in the tournament and should have been a #1 seed. They are also a bad matchup for Texas.
Oh well, fight through it. There have been years where we benefited from the NCAA's idiotic underrating of West Coast teams and overrating of East Coast teams in baseball. This year we were bit in the ass.
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05-29-2007, 11:17 AM | #44 |
High School Varsity
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Location: Houston, TX
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Baseball America has a good podcast available at their site and at iTunes. I think they broadcast twice a week, with one being specifically for the NCAA.
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05-29-2007, 12:16 PM | #45 | |
Bounty Hunter
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Quote:
Go Privateers!
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05-29-2007, 12:44 PM | #46 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
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Quote:
The Zephyrs split the championship in 2001, I believe. I think that they just cancelled the AAA World Series after 9/11. They won outright in 1998, although even that went mostly unnoticed locally. I'm certainly not counting on a UNO championship or winning this regional, but in a year where neither LSU or Tulane made a regional (first time in 25+ years for that) we're getting a lot of local media attention that would normally be going elsewhere. Ironically, back when UNO was a national baseball powerhouse, we hosted Wichita State in a regional back in 1982. Yeah, I'm definitely hoping this is the start of a rebirth. |
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05-29-2007, 12:56 PM | #47 | |
Bounty Hunter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Anyway, back to college baseball, I haven't even looked at the 64-team field yet. I knew that LSU had a terrible season by LSU standards, but I hadn't realized that Tulane had a bad year also. I'm glad that UNO is getting some attention down there, because they've always seemed to be a media afterthought. LSU got all the basketball attention, while LSU and Tulane always split the baseball attention. It's good to see UNO on top of the local college sports scene for once. Of course, with our luck, those damn Cajuns in Lafayette will probably make it to the College World Series, and the media will forget all about UNO again.
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05-29-2007, 02:08 PM | #48 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
I thought the same thing..they have a hell of a bracket to get through. this year it's really set up to have a west school vs. east school in the final game with how the brackets are set up. |
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05-29-2007, 03:09 PM | #49 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
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Quote:
Well, the New Orleans media ignores them even more than they ignore us. I think the Cajuns have more than a fighting chance to get through the Texas A&M regional, but they would have to get through Rice in the supers. Rice is just a better version of ULL and should take care of business if it comes to that. |
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05-29-2007, 06:59 PM | #50 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
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Quote:
I've been listening to their college podcast the last month or so, and have been really impressed. I'm even considering subscribing the website next year, anyone do so? Looks like they have some real good info on there. Lloyd- Yeah our pitching has been fantastic. I think our #3 and #4 guys could be #1 or #2's on most teams. If we had consistent run support we'd really be a force. Oral Roberts has just owned us though, and it's just tough all around. I think all 4 teams have a shot in this region. |
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