Is This a Little...easy? (WSM)

[Abe Sargent]

So, I started playing a dynasty in Worldwide Socceer manager - Lastest edition, latest patch.

I like a bit of a challenge and I like the ability to bring in plays from lots of places. I decided to play in Belgium as Cercle Brugge (not Clubbe Brugge, but Cercle).

Okay, first year, predicted to relegate at 18th, finish 15th. Second year, predicted to relegate at 17th, finish 13th. Last year, predicted to finish 15th, finished 11th.

These are not major accomplishments. Sure, we've done better than others expected, but not massively so.

During this time, I have applied for every national side that opened up. Israel twice, Canada twice, Spain, Italy, Ukraine, Serbia, and more that I can;t remember at the time. No national side has ever sniffed my jocks.

I also applied for the occasional bigger club once or twice. Bolton, Nurnberg, and some Dutch club who's name I can;t recall.

I;m not getting these jobs anytime soon, I know that.

Never made it to the round of 16 in the Belgian Cup, never coached a national side, did not take any experience in my background. I chose Brunei and USA as my dual nationalities. I now know French, English and Malay.

So, the French job just opened up. Despite them currrently being number one in their WC qualifer group, the head coach wanted to retire. Like normal, I apply, on a lark.

They've just offered me the job.

So, what, exactly, are they seeing in my coach in order to offer me one of the most pretigious jobs in international coaching? The French job has got to be one of the top 10 jobs (Brazil, Argentina, England, Italy, Spain, Germany and France would be my top 7, with probably Netherlands in the top 10 as well).

Why France and no one else? I have no nationalty that they would desire, I have no cup experience of any sort, never placed above 11th in the oh so mighty Belgian league, never coached a national side, and have no experience listed in the game prior to being hired at Cercle Brugge.

What;s going on here?

[Abe Sargent]

Went and looked at my coach profile. I have a national rep (Belgium's not that big after all) with a rookie manager description still. I have had 108 non-friendly matches, and in those, I am a combined 32 wins, 26 draws, and 50 losses. I have a -36 goal difference. I have a very cautious playing style with my own tactical formation (3-1-4-2), so they aren't matching the tactics to the players or anything.

[Neon_Chaos]

That's because they're just looking for a simple scapegoat to blame when France loses.

[Crapshoot]

FYI,
I always think job seeking is one of the easiest parts of FM - they don't want user to get frustrated, and thus have teams with openings "relax" standards. Heck, teams almost refuse to try and poach top talent from other teams (hell, players and coaches). I think I've seen the "glory" jobs (Real Madrid, Man U, Milan etc etc) come up often in football, and almost always , the replacement is some mid-level guy from a mediocre team, or a guy who was recently fired.

[Abe Sargent]

Would you even take a job that's that out of sync with real life?

[Desnudo]

It depends if you are playing for realism (role playing) or fun. I play for fun, so of course.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Would you even take a job that's that out of sync with real life?

Probably not, at that point. Although, I also wouldn't have applied for it.

[Abe Sargent]

I guess I have two issues here:

1). This is a game that prides itself on very realistic simulations of the football world. This is not even close to realistic. It's jarring.

2). This is so far away from realistic that it defies explanation. Suppose its three years in teh future past this date in the game. Suppose I win a Belgian Cup, get in the Euro competition one year and defy the odds and win the Belgian league tropy in another year. At that point, it would STILL defy the odds for France to offer me their national side, but at least it would sound realistic. Young up and coming coach takes a relegation side and in six years wins a Belgian Cup, gets fourth, say and then first? Not bad, but its on a smaller scale than I think a large nation like France would want. This is freakin' Belgium we're talking about, after all. At least there would be something to go on, some track record. And suppose that I created a player with a very high reputation from his playing years. I could see a major national side offering their job to a player with a high rep who in three years of coaching always coached his side to a higher than predicted spot in a moderately difficult top league. It'd defy the odds, but at least you could conceive of it.

This seems so far outside of accepted reality that I have to scratch my head in wonder.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I guess I have two issues here:

1). This is a game that prides itself on very realistic simulations of the football world. This is not even close to realistic. It's jarring.

Actually, the folks at SI have never really claimed that. They have actually, on numerous occasions, pointed out the fact that if it truly were a realistic simulation, you would NEVER get a job in the game. Have you ever played the game professionally? Have you ever coached the game above a kid's-league level? What qualifications did you have to get the job at Cercle Brugge in the first place?

I look at it as a fun game that lets you explore what it might be like to manage a professional football team. Some suspension of belief is necessary just to start the game. Relax and enjoy it. And as Passacaglia said, if you didn't want the job you shouldn't have applied for it in the first place

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by scooter

Actually, the folks at SI have never really claimed that. They have actually, on numerous occasions, pointed out the fact that if it truly were a realistic simulation, you would NEVER get a job in the game. Have you ever played the game professionally? Have you ever coached the game above a kid's-league level? What qualifications did you have to get the job at Cercle Brugge in the first place?

I look at it as a fun game that lets you explore what it might be like to manage a professional football team. Some suspension of belief is necessary just to start the game. Relax and enjoy it. And as Passacaglia said, if you didn't want the job you shouldn't have applied for it in the first place

I agree. While it's been a long time since I played a FM game, each career I had, I would take some Second Division club in England and work my way through the league. Eventually, usually after 5-7 years or so, I would make it to the Premiere League and even found my way into Europe on occasion.

It was great fun to build my little team into an international football powerhouse, competeing for some of the best talent in the world. Was it realistic? I can't imagine. When was the last time a team went from England's second division to playing in the Champion's League in 7 year span?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by scooter

Actually, the folks at SI have never really claimed that. They have actually, on numerous occasions, pointed out the fact that if it truly were a realistic simulation, you would NEVER get a job in the game.

Now THATS a move I'd like to see a developer take. Call it the most realistic simulation of its kind, so when you play the game, you're unable to take over any jobs since IRL you're just some shmuck.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I see where you guys are coming from when you explain that the game isn't 100% realistic, but even in the game's "fantasy" world, why would France offer him the job? Bolton and Nurnberg turned him down, as did other national sides like Israel and Canada that aren't contenders for anything. The only job he can get is from the French national team? It is a little strange.

Now, if he could pretty much get any job out there, it probably would be so alarming. He's been turned down everywhere else -- probably laughed at by those teams in the process -- and yet France is willing to bring him on.

I don't think it's a showstopper or anything like that, but it's a valid concern, isn't it?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by scooter

Actually, the folks at SI have never really claimed that. They have actually, on numerous occasions, pointed out the fact that if it truly were a realistic simulation, you would NEVER get a job in the game. Have you ever played the game professionally? Have you ever coached the game above a kid's-league level? What qualifications did you have to get the job at Cercle Brugge in the first place?

I look at it as a fun game that lets you explore what it might be like to manage a professional football team. Some suspension of belief is necessary just to start the game. Relax and enjoy it. And as Passacaglia said, if you didn't want the job you shouldn't have applied for it in the first place

I haven't played the 07 demo lately, but in that, couldn't you set your reputation before you start? I think that helps answer some of those questions.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I haven't played the 07 demo lately, but in that, couldn't you set your reputation before you start? I think that helps answer some of those questions.

You can. There are about 4-5 choices; one of which is Automatic. But in his opening post, he says he didn't take any experience in his background (I think that is what he is refering to).

I don't have an answer. At first I thought maybe it was the fact that your manager could speak french. But then you probably would have gotten the Canada job. I guess in the end, I like Neon's answer the best.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by scooter

Actually, the folks at SI have never really claimed that. They have actually, on numerous occasions, pointed out the fact that if it truly were a realistic simulation, you would NEVER get a job in the game. Have you ever played the game professionally? Have you ever coached the game above a kid's-league level? What qualifications did you have to get the job at Cercle Brugge in the first place?

I look at it as a fun game that lets you explore what it might be like to manage a professional football team. Some suspension of belief is necessary just to start the game. Relax and enjoy it. And as Passacaglia said, if you didn't want the job you shouldn't have applied for it in the first place

I said the game prides itself on realism, not the developers, but I can see how you'd make the mistake. I always assumed there was some nepotism or whatnot. Maybe a bribe? Or, maybe I was a popular American Football coach who moved over after a successful TCY or FOF career

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I agree. While it's been a long time since I played a FM game, each career I had, I would take some Second Division club in England and work my way through the league. Eventually, usually after 5-7 years or so, I would make it to the Premiere League and even found my way into Europe on occasion.

It was great fun to build my little team into an international football powerhouse, competeing for some of the best talent in the world. Was it realistic? I can't imagine. When was the last time a team went from England's second division to playing in the Champion's League in 7 year span?

I never have done that. I have gone from 3rd to 1st in four or five years (now a days it would be 2nd to Championship), but I've never made that next bump. I have made a lower level top flight team into a European team, like Metalurg Zp or Bolton or Kaiserslautern. But they were in a top flight already.

Everything I've done has been realistic. Every national managership I was able to take always made sense. When I got the American job I had spent five years in England and I was American with a FA Cup Semi Final while I was still in the second division (today's 1st). That's a solid resume. When I got Ukraine manager, I was Ghanian, but I was coaching in Ukraine, at the aforementioned Metalurg ZP and I had gotten second in teh league and had won two Ukraine Cups. That was beleivable.

This is not.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I see where you guys are coming from when you explain that the game isn't 100% realistic, but even in the game's "fantasy" world, why would France offer him the job? Bolton and Nurnberg turned him down, as did other national sides like Israel and Canada that aren't contenders for anything. The only job he can get is from the French national team? It is a little strange.

Now, if he could pretty much get any job out there, it probably would be so alarming. He's been turned down everywhere else -- probably laughed at by those teams in the process -- and yet France is willing to bring him on.

I don't think it's a showstopper or anything like that, but it's a valid concern, isn't it?

Totally agree.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

When I got Ukraine manager, I was Ghanian, but I was coaching in Ukraine, at the aforementioned Metalurg ZP and I had gotten second in teh league and had won two Ukraine Cups.

How did you like the Ukraine leagues? Last years version I was burned out on the usual suspects and had a couple of long careers in Austria, Norway and Poland which were fun for a change of pace (especially the Polish league).

Back to England with this years version so far (got Notts Co promoted to league 1 so far), but I know I'll want to try somewhere else eventually. What smaller country leagues do people like?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by path12

How did you like the Ukraine leagues? Last years version I was burned out on the usual suspects and had a couple of long careers in Austria, Norway and Poland which were fun for a change of pace (especially the Polish league).

Back to England with this years version so far (got Notts Co promoted to league 1 so far), but I know I'll want to try somewhere else eventually. What smaller country leagues do people like?

I thought it was fun. I have it active again in case I want to hop from Belgium to somewhere else.

[DanGarion]

Dude you are talking about France...

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html

[dacman]

It's a bug really. It's too easy to get managerial spots on national teams in FM07. It's been that way since the release. Hell, I on version 7.00 I got offered the England job with "unknown" reputation. They tried to address it in the patches, but apparently still haven't gotten it very close to realistic (it's better but not fixed). I would suggest a house rule.

[Abe Sargent]

Yeah, but if its a bug for national teams, why didn;t Canada or Isreal or Serbia take my application and make me an offer. Why France?

[dacman]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Yeah, but if its a bug for national teams, why didn;t Canada or Isreal or Serbia take my application and make me an offer. Why France?

Language probably -- french is routinely spoken in Belgium so your digital self probably speaks it to some degree now.

[Izulde]

Hell, maybe I should get 07, cuz I can never get a national side in 06.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by path12

How did you like the Ukraine leagues? Last years version I was burned out on the usual suspects and had a couple of long careers in Austria, Norway and Poland which were fun for a change of pace (especially the Polish league).

Back to England with this years version so far (got Notts Co promoted to league 1 so far), but I know I'll want to try somewhere else eventually. What smaller country leagues do people like?

I really enjoyed my Northern Ireland career in FM 2006. I took over Queen's University Belfast and had absolutely no money and no hope but I managed to win one of the 4 domestic cup competitions once and almost got promoted to the Northern Irish Premier League before 2007 came out. Now I am Rushden and Diamonds in the English Conference National.

[Big Fo]

Yeah, for some reason it's a lot easier to get a job with one of the bigger countries than it is to advance your club career. Doesn't matter too much to me, I've never liked international management that much. Half the fun of the game for me is working the transfer market.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

I really enjoyed my Northern Ireland career in FM 2006. I took over Queen's University Belfast and had absolutely no money and no hope but I managed to win one of the 4 domestic cup competitions once and almost got promoted to the Northern Irish Premier League before 2007 came out. Now I am Rushden and Diamonds in the English Conference National.

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

I like playing Llama FM, so one of the things I'll do is play a bottom level Brazilian team or some other South American country (with all SA active). The other surprisingly fun thing I did was play Scandinavia with a Norwegian league team. It wasn't crazy money, but you still had to be shrewd to stay in the black.

Norway was really a fun league to play. I haven't tried Ireland, it seemed too close to England. I've always wondered about playing either Mexico or a South American league (Argentina or Brazil). Maybe I'll give that a try, though I'm also kicking around (heh) the idea of one of the Asian leagues.

I've also never managed a national team. Apparently it's easy to get a job with one!

[Marc Vaughan]

By any chance did you set your manager nationality to French or something along those lines?

[SirFozzie]

From the first post:

chose Brunei and USA as my dual nationalities.

So that's not it.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Is the owner Jerry Jones?

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

From the first post:

chose Brunei and USA as my dual nationalities.

So that's not it.

Sorry skim read the thread and missed that ... only other thing I can think of off-hand is did you set a 'starting reputation' of world class when you began the game? - that would make you an ex-superstar player and more attractive to nations generally (I'm guessing not, but as I mentioned its the only other thing which I can think of).

[stevew]

That's bizarre. Welcome to Old Trafford.

[Neon_Chaos]

Welcome to Football.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

Sorry skim read the thread and missed that ... only other thing I can think of off-hand is did you set a 'starting reputation' of world class when you began the game? - that would make you an ex-superstar player and more attractive to nations generally (I'm guessing not, but as I mentioned its the only other thing which I can think of).

Nope, set myself at the lowest level.