"Leader of the Free World"

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I was just listening to the radio where it was questioned as to whether Newt Gingrich could be the "Leader of the Free World." I have heard this term before, but I was just wondering what people in other countries think regarding the reference to the U.S. President as The Leader of the Free World. I know we have a few guys that post here from places that many Americans consider insignificant, so what is the attitude elsewhere regarding such a term?

Actually, I was thinking about the term earlier in the week, and I thought how much better things might be if our Presidents were more concerned with being the leader of the nation that elected them instead of the "Free world."

[Izulde]

I'm not from another country, but to me it's a propaganda tool and shouldn't be regarded as anything but that.

Sadly, the sheep herd that is the American public no doubt do buy into it.

[amdaily]

Oh man, this is such a bad topic for a drunken ramble!

Honestly, I see both sides. On the one hand, we have fallen so far since G.W. 1 was elected that we can hardly consider ourselves a model example for the rest of the world. Many small, insignificant countries have bested us in literacy, infant mortality, etc. With our debt and lack of morality, America is far from being that mythical city on a hill.

Yet, we have the power, both militarily and economic, to be a force for good in the world. As bad as our problems may seem, we have the ability to change the fortune and future for millions in Africa, Asia, and middle east with the most little of effort. Perhaps we are going about it all wrong at the moment – a different topic for discussion – but given these resources, do we have a moral obligation to use them?

I think yes. Should we start by rebuilding infrastructure here, of course, but a country as powerful as this should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time, so to speak.

But is the title fitting? To that I say no, it never was. During the cold war, we never ignored the enslaved - we provided aid and assistance to the unfree. Perhaps this is just semantics, but maybe we should call it “Leader of the World.” My only hope is that we elect someone more capable than GWB or Newt to carry the title.

[Fidatelo]

The rest of the world just sees it as chest-thumping, self-agrandizing, egotistical verbal diarrhea.

Is it accurate though? Possibly. It's just one of those things where you shouldn't need to say it about yourself.

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

The rest of the world just sees it as chest-thumping, self-agrandizing, egotistical verbal diarrhea.

Is it accurate though? Possibly. It's just one of those things where you shouldn't need to say it about yourself.

Cause the rest of the world sucks. We pump BILLIONS into preventing the spread of AIDS in Africa and no one gives a shit about it. A little thanks would nice.

I'd love to see that $16 billion spent reducing our trade deficit, but we use it to save lives and all we get is grief an hostility in return.

[Drake]

Fantastic city-on-a-hill reference, amdaily.

[JPhillips]

It's an outdated term that we should really let go. It was absolutely true that we were the leader of the free world in the struggle against communism, but now the world is much more complicated. It's just silly to use the term when we can't even get all the countries in NATO to agree with us.

It was a great slogan for a past era, but it just sounds hollow today.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by amdaily

Cause the rest of the world sucks. We pump BILLIONS into preventing the spread of AIDS in Africa and no one gives a shit about it. A little thanks would nice.

I'd love to see that $16 billion spent reducing our trade deficit, but we use it to save lives and all we get is grief an hostility in return.

American humanitarian relief performance is actually a terrible example if you want to prove that the US is a global democratic leader. Scandinavian governments, for example, donate a much higher proportion of their countries' GDPs on relief aid than the US. More importantly, American aid often comes with strings attached. To go back to the African AIDS example, the US demands the promotion of abstinence-only programs at the expense of programs that teach condom usage, and denying aid to prostitutes and other key vectors of infection, to name a few. It sure seems that the US does play politics with its aid, even willing to sacrifice the prudence of science and sound epidemiology just to promote the ideological agenda of the powers that be (of which the promotion of democracy appears to play a very minor part) .

I'm sure that there are several legitimate examples where you can say that the US government can claim "leadership of the free world". AIDS relief ain't one of them...

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's an outdated term that we should really let go. It was absolutely true that we were the leader of the free world in the struggle against communism, but now the world is much more complicated. It's just silly to use the term when we can't even get all the countries in NATO to agree with us.

It was a great slogan for a past era, but it just sounds hollow today.

Struggle against communism?

Oh please, it was never about ideology.

[Groundhog]

Foreign folks like me just grin at terms like that, but no more or less than when we see an NFL/NBA/whatever team crowned World Champions... I'd classify it above "offensive", and much closer to "pompous".

[Vinatieri for Prez]

It's right up there with calling the Cardinals and the Heat "world champions." It's lame to begin with but slightly defensible if it's a sport the U.S. dominates in. Since the U.S. lost at the World Baseball Championships last year, rarely wins a gold medal in baseball and has a hard enough time just medaling in the basketball (whether its worlds or Olympics), the use of the phrase is pretty self-aggrandizing. "Leader of the Free World" sits about the same. You can only call yourself "leader" if people follow you. I think we have seen recently that that is no longer the case.

[Franklinnoble]

To quote Denis Leary: "We've got the bombs. Russia... Germany... Romania... they can have all the democracy they want. They can have a big democracy cakewalk right through the middle of Tiananmen Square and it won't make a lick of difference because we've got the bombs..."

[Vinatieri for Prez]

The question is about "leader of the free world," not "leader of the bully of the world;" or "leader of the screw 'em country of the world;" or "leader of the country with the most bombs." To be leader of anything, people must follow.

[KeyserSoze]

As Foreigner I've to say that the image of US as a "bully" country is very widespread (for real or imaginary reasons).

The governments that had been more loyal to the Bush administration (at least in Europe) are down or will be soon (Spain, Italy and UK). The rest of Europe has a mildly negative view of US. Russia is parting ways with the NATO and US. And for the rest of the world, the situation is far worse. South America has a very bad image of US in general terms, as it had in the Muslim world. China had his own political agenda. Pakistan, Arabia are, at least, strange allies. Turkey could be considered better, but there a lot of unrest inside the country about their alliances.

So, strictly in foreign affairs matter, US needs a low profile president, with high skills in diplomacy and who can trust, and be trusted by the UN. Another bully president will just get a worse international image of the US.

I'm not judging the policy of president Bush, and I'm not saying who will be better of worse president. I'm just giving a view of the reactions around the world of the actual policy.

But I like the "Gettysburg" of Newt Gringich.

[Coder]

It's ok, it's just another one of those things we like to laugh about here .

I love the US.. I've lived in the US.. but much of what's being "proclaimed" domestically is just propaganda.

The main thing that struck me as a foreigner living in the United States was who much of the media was focused on domestic issues as compared to foreign.

Heck, sometimes it felt as if a cow being hit by a car in a neighbouring county had more newsvalue than a major catastrophe hitting Europe. While you might shrug and say - so? - I'm used to seeing international news just as important as domestic.

So.. in summary, when the term "Leader of the Free World" is being tossed about, I laugh a bit and shrug it off.. I'm not taking it seriously, because I know that he just means the US.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

American humanitarian relief performance is actually a terrible example if you want to prove that the US is a global democratic leader. Scandinavian governments, for example, donate a much higher proportion of their countries' GDPs on relief aid than the US. More importantly, American aid often comes with strings attached. To go back to the African AIDS example, the US demands the promotion of abstinence-only programs at the expense of programs that teach condom usage, and denying aid to prostitutes and other key vectors of infection, to name a few. It sure seems that the US does play politics with its aid, even willing to sacrifice the prudence of science and sound epidemiology just to promote the ideological agenda of the powers that be (of which the promotion of democracy appears to play a very minor part) .

I'm sure that there are several legitimate examples where you can say that the US government can claim "leadership of the free world". AIDS relief ain't one of them...

This is a false statement. My sister was in the PeaceCorps for many years and they taught condom use and educated everyone in the population who would listen

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

To quote Denis Leary: "We've got the bombs. Russia... Germany... Romania... they can have all the democracy they want. They can have a big democracy cakewalk right through the middle of Tiananmen Square and it won't make a lick of difference because we've got the bombs..."

Man, it's been a while since I've heard The Asshole Song
(but I did see Demolition Man the other night...)

SI

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Man, it's been a while since I've heard The Asshole Song
(but I did see Demolition Man the other night...)

SI

Thanks, now you've got me thinking about Taco Bell.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by amdaily

Cause the rest of the world sucks. We pump BILLIONS into preventing the spread of AIDS in Africa and no one gives a shit about it. A little thanks would nice.

I'd love to see that $16 billion spent reducing our trade deficit, but we use it to save lives and all we get is grief an hostility in return.

Political Science by Randy Newman


No one likes us, I don't know why.
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try.
And all around us, even our old friends put us down,
Let's drop the big one, see what happens...

We give them money, but are they grateful?
No they're spiteful and their hateful,
They don't respect us, so let's suprise them,
We'll drop the big one, pulverize them.

Asia's crowded, Europe's too old,
Africa is far too hot, and Canada's too cold,
And South America stole our name,
Let's drop the big one, there'll be no one left to blame us,

We'll save Austrailia, Don't want to hurt no kangaroo,
We'll build an all American amusement park there, they got surfing too

Boom! goes London, Boom! Pa-reee,
More room for you, and more room for me,
And every city, the whole world 'round,
Will just be another American town.
Oh how peaceful it will be, We'll set everybody free,
There'll be a Japanese Kimono for you, and Itallian shoes for me.

They all hate us anyhow, so let's drop the big one now,
Let's drop the big one now.


Written 35 years ago... The more things change..

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Man, it's been a while since I've heard The Asshole Song
(but I did see Demolition Man the other night...)

SI

Every time I see that movie, I wonder what ever happened to Wesley Snipes. I think that "Too Wong Foo" movie killed his and Patrick Swayze's career.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Every time I see that movie, I wonder what ever happened to Wesley Snipes. I think that "Too Wong Foo" movie killed his and Patrick Swayze's career.

Dude, Blade rules!!

Since Demolition Man...

1. Gallowwalker (2007) (post-production) .... Aman
2. The Shooter (2007) (completed)
3. Hard Luck (2006) (V) .... Lucky
4. The Detonator (2006) (V) .... Sonni Griffith
5. Chaos (2006/I) .... Lorenz/Jason York
   ... aka Hit & Blast (Malaysia: English title)
6. The Marksman (2005) (V) .... Painter
7. 7 Seconds (2005) (V) .... Jack Tuliver
8. Blade: Trinity (2004) .... Blade
9. Unstoppable (2004) .... Dean Cage
   ... aka 9 Lives (Europe: English title: DVD title)
10. "The Bernie Mac Show" .... Duke (1 episode, 2003)
    - Bernie Mac Rope-a-Dope (2003) TV Episode .... Duke
11. Undisputed (2002) .... Monroe Hutchens
    ... aka Undisputed - Sieg ohne Ruhm (Germany)
12. Blade II (2002) .... Blade
    ... aka Blade II (Germany)
13. ZigZag (2002) .... Fletcher
14. Liberty Stands Still (2002) .... Joe
    ... aka Liberty stands still - Im Visier des Mörders (Germany: DVD title)
15. Disappearing Acts (2000) (TV) .... Franklin Swift
16. The Art of War (2000) .... Neil Shaw
    ... aka Art de la guerre, L' (Canada: French title)
17. Play It to the Bone (1999) .... Ringside Fan
    ... aka Play It (USA: promotional title)
18. Futuresport (1998) (TV) .... Obike Fixx
19. Blade (1998) .... Blade/Eric Brooks/'The Daywalker'
20. Down in the Delta (1998) .... Will Sinclair
21. U.S. Marshals (1998) .... Mark J. Sheridan/Warren/Roberts
22. One Night Stand (1997) .... Max Carlyle
23. Murder at 1600 (1997) .... Det. Harlan Regis
24. The Fan (1996) .... Bobby Rayburn
25. America's Dream (1996) (TV) .... George Du Vaul (segment "The Boy Who Painted Christ Black")
26. Waiting to Exhale (1995) (uncredited) .... James Wheeler
27. Money Train (1995) .... John
28. To Wong Foo Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar (1995) .... Noxeema Jackson
29. "Happily Ever After: Fairy Tales for Every Child" (1995) TV Series (unknown episodes)
30. Drop Zone (1994) .... Pete Nessip
31. Sugar Hill (1994) .... Roemello Skuggs
    ... aka Harlem

So you got the Blade movies, and Money Train. And The Fan, Murder at 1600, and U.S. Marshalls were good rentals.

Not much considering all the movies but not that bad

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

It's an outdated term that we should really let go. It was absolutely true that we were the leader of the free world in the struggle against communism, but now the world is much more complicated. It's just silly to use the term when we can't even get all the countries in NATO to agree with us.

It was a great slogan for a past era, but it just sounds hollow today.

Not every nation in Nato is a free democracy either, so why would the approval of nations that aren't free matter when it comes to this term.

[JPhillips]

What NATO countries aren't a part of the "free world"?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I'm not from another country, but to me it's a propaganda tool and shouldn't be regarded as anything but that.

Sadly, the sheep herd that is the American public no doubt do buy into it.

Except for the fact that it is true. I tend to run into educated people from many different countries in my day-to-day job and have also travelled abroad a fair amount since 9/11. While President Bush appears to be the least popular president from a foreign perspective, possibly in US history, almost everyone thinks that the US is still a "good" country.

Edit: this is based on people who also live in democratic countries

[TroyF]

I've thought of 200 responses to this. These all range from the "duh, we are the leaders of the free world, like it or not" and explaining why to laughing at the "us dumb americans are all sheep and anyone who thinks that we are the best are a bunch of drunken Southerners who watch NASCAR all day"

At the end of the day. . . this isn't even an issue. Really, if someone is going to think less of the US because of that single statement, let em.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

The governments that had been more loyal to the Bush administration (at least in Europe) are down or will be soon (Spain, Italy and UK).

I can't imagine we will see a time in the near or distant future when the UK is not closely allied with the USA. The two main parties are both very pro USA and have voted the same way on most of the major US related issues (war etc).

Far more Brits feel an afinity towards the USA than our European neighbours.

[Crapshoot]

I'm Indian, and that's possibly the country that has the most positive outlook towards the US (I think the Pew Research confirmed it as such), but even there, there's a vocal group that finds lines like this to be absurd. Its a communist era relic, and doesn't mean much now.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Really, if someone is going to think less of the US because of that single statement, let em.

I don't think it's ever a case of that single statement. It's the whole "we are the best and we'll throw it in your face constantly" attitude that rubs others the wrong way.

Like I said before, the statements may be true, but they can be nonetheless irritating. Think about the star athlete that is super talented, but constantly saying "who's your daddy?" to everyone all the time.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

Dude, Blade rules!!

Since Demolition Man...

1. Gallowwalker (2007) (post-production) .... Aman
2. The Shooter (2007) (completed)
3. Hard Luck (2006) (V) .... Lucky
4. The Detonator (2006) (V) .... Sonni Griffith
5. Chaos (2006/I) .... Lorenz/Jason York
   ... aka Hit & Blast (Malaysia: English title)
6. The Marksman (2005) (V) .... Painter
7. 7 Seconds (2005) (V) .... Jack Tuliver
8. Blade: Trinity (2004) .... Blade
9. Unstoppable (2004) .... Dean Cage
   ... aka 9 Lives (Europe: English title: DVD title)
10. "The Bernie Mac Show" .... Duke (1 episode, 2003)
    - Bernie Mac Rope-a-Dope (2003) TV Episode .... Duke
11. Undisputed (2002) .... Monroe Hutchens
    ... aka Undisputed - Sieg ohne Ruhm (Germany)
12. Blade II (2002) .... Blade
    ... aka Blade II (Germany)
13. ZigZag (2002) .... Fletcher
14. Liberty Stands Still (2002) .... Joe
    ... aka Liberty stands still - Im Visier des Mörders (Germany: DVD title)
15. Disappearing Acts (2000) (TV) .... Franklin Swift
16. The Art of War (2000) .... Neil Shaw
    ... aka Art de la guerre, L' (Canada: French title)
17. Play It to the Bone (1999) .... Ringside Fan
    ... aka Play It (USA: promotional title)
18. Futuresport (1998) (TV) .... Obike Fixx
19. Blade (1998) .... Blade/Eric Brooks/'The Daywalker'
20. Down in the Delta (1998) .... Will Sinclair
21. U.S. Marshals (1998) .... Mark J. Sheridan/Warren/Roberts
22. One Night Stand (1997) .... Max Carlyle
23. Murder at 1600 (1997) .... Det. Harlan Regis
24. The Fan (1996) .... Bobby Rayburn
25. America's Dream (1996) (TV) .... George Du Vaul (segment "The Boy Who Painted Christ Black")
26. Waiting to Exhale (1995) (uncredited) .... James Wheeler
27. Money Train (1995) .... John
28. To Wong Foo Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar (1995) .... Noxeema Jackson
29. "Happily Ever After: Fairy Tales for Every Child" (1995) TV Series (unknown episodes)
30. Drop Zone (1994) .... Pete Nessip
31. Sugar Hill (1994) .... Roemello Skuggs
    ... aka Harlem

So you got the Blade movies, and Money Train. And The Fan, Murder at 1600, and U.S. Marshalls were good rentals.

Not much considering all the movies but not that bad

That sort of affirms my point. I saw Money Train (bad) and U.S. Marshalls (mediocre), but the last one of his I saw was The Art Of War in 2000 (which was horrible).

I saw the first Blade movie, but none of the rest. Did they even see theatrical release? From what I can tell, Snipes hasn't had a major role in a hit movie in about ten years. So if Wong Foo didn't mark the end of his career, it certainly was about where he jumped the shark as a leading man.

The case for that movie killing Patrick Swayze is even stronger:

1. Jump! (2007) .... Richard Pressburger
2. The Fox and the Hound 2 (2006) (V) .... Cash
3. Keeping Mum (2005) .... Lance
4. Icon (2005) (TV) .... Jason Monk
   ... aka Frederick Forsyth's Icon (USA: complete title)
5. King Solomon's Mines (2004) (TV) .... Allan Quatermain
6. George and the Dragon (2004) .... Garth
   ... aka Dragon Sword (USA: TV title)
7. Dirty Dancing: Havana Nights (2004) .... Dance Class Instructor
   ... aka Dirty Dancing 2 (Australia) (Singapore: English title)
8. "Whoopi" .... Tony (1 episode, 2004)
   - The Last Dance (2004) TV Episode .... Tony
9. 11:14 (2003) .... Frank
10. One Last Dance (2003) .... Travis MacPhearson
11. Waking Up in Reno (2002) .... Roy Kirkendall
12. Green Dragon (2001) .... Gunnery Sergeant Jim Lance
13. Donnie Darko (2001) .... Jim Cunningham
    ... aka Donnie Darko: The Director's Cut (USA: director's cut)
14. Forever Lulu (2000) .... Ben Clifton
    ... aka Along for the Ride (USA: video title)
15. Letters from a Killer (1998) .... Race Darnell
16. Black Dog (1998) .... Jack Crews
    ... aka Black Dog (France)
17. Three Wishes (1995) .... Jack McCloud
18. To Wong Foo Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar (1995) .... Vida Boheme

Seriously... that's pathetic. The Dirty Dancing sequel didn't do much for him... maybe he needs a follow-up to Red Dawn.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yes, the 2 Blade sequels went to theaters and did better than the first worldwide:


Blade 70m US; 131m Worldwide
Blade 2 82m US; 154m Worldwide
Blade Trinity 53m US; 132m Worldwide

Average budget was about 55m per.

How could you have possibly missed Jessica Biel in Trinity?

Nobody keeps my man Wesley Snipes down (except the IRS). Remember, "always bet on black!"

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Yes, the 2 Blade sequels went to theaters and did better than the first worldwide:


Blade 70m US; 131m Worldwide
Blade 2 82m US; 154m Worldwide
Blade Trinity 53m US; 132m Worldwide

Average budget was about 55m per.

How could you have possibly missed Jessica Biel in Trinity?

Nobody keeps my man Wesley Snipes down (except the IRS). Remember, "always bet on black!"

Honestly, I thought the first Blade was so bad, I never took much notice of the rest of the series.

[Leonidas]

Leader of the Free World is a Cold War term that should have gone out of vogue when the Berlin Wall fell. It has no real application today.

[Dutch]

Wait, we're getting sidetracked. The bigger question here is what radio station wanted to know if Newt Gingrich should be the Leader of the Free World????