Bus crash kills 6 traveling with small college baseball team

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metr...2buscrash.html

A charter bus, reportedly carrying members of a baseball team from Ohio, crashed onto I-75 from an overpass at Northside Drive early Friday morning, killing six people and closing the southbound lanes of the interstate.

Witnesses said the bus, reportedly bound for Florida, got off the freeway at the Northside HOV exit, appeared to slide or lose control, crossed Northside at an angle and plunged through the bridge barrier onto 75. Some of the luggage scattered on the road was labeled Bluffton University Baseball.

Atlanta police spokesman Joe Cobb, who said six people were killed, said nine were seriously injured and 20 were "walking wounded." There were 35 people on the bus. The injured were taken to Grady Memorial Hospital.

Cobb said the interstate would be closed "probably all day."

It was the second fatal wreck interstate in a matter of hours. A metro Atlanta police officer was killed on I-75/85 just south of Fulton Streetwhen his Cadillac Escalade hit a Clayton County Ambulance head-on. Police said he was driving the wrong way on the road.

On Northside Drive, above the wreck, luggage and baseball equipment was scattered on the road, apparently dislodged from the bus when it hit the bridge's 2-foot-high retaining wall and crashed through a 10-foot-high fence atop the wall.

The plunging bus clipped two trucks that were southbound on 75. A Chevrolet sport utility vehicle and a pickup truck were hit but neither driver was injured.

Danny Lloyd of Frostburg, Md., was driving the pickup truck.

He said he thought it was a "big slab of concrete" falling from the bridge.

"I just closed my eyes and stepped on the gas," said Lloyd, who was traveling from Cincinnati to Florida.

Lloyd slid by the bus, getting hit on the roof. His front bumper was torn off.

Northbound traffic was moving past the accident scene. Police were directing drivers in the southbound lanes to turn around and go north on the southbound lanes to the Howell Mill exit. They were moving out cars first, to make room for several tractor-trailers to turn around.

According to its Web site, Bluffton University is affiliated with Mennonite Church USA, and has "a strong spiritual tradition." The school's 234-acre campus is located in the northwest Ohio village of Bluffton.

The baseball team's schedule had the team playing in the Gene Cusic Classic in Fort Myers, Fla., March 5-9.

[korme]

I know Chris Bauman, who luckily walked away with just a gash on his leg. Graduated from Milford with him.

What a terrible tragedy.

[Karlifornia]

Sucky. At least 29 people are still alive.

[wade moore]

I'm surprised there's not more conversation on this.

I saw the video of this including a simulation of what would have happened. This looked like an absolutely horrific crash and all things considered, 29 people alive seems pretty surprising. It will be interesting to slowly hear about what went wrong.

My thoughts and prayers are with this team, their families, etc.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm surprised there's not more conversation on this.

Me too actually.

Such an awful thing and yet I feel like I've seen so much ... I don't know, "comforting" things in the aftermath.

The survivors have been amazing, their emotion & the sincerity of their feelings & concern about their teammates is touching. The response of AirTran (and later Delta) is making sure that the families & those affected were able to get from Ohio to Atlanta at no cost (and at the cost of the airlines) was a rare case of corporate humanity. The response from people in the area, bringing food, clothes, anything that they could think of that might help even in the smallest way was remarkable to me.

I think one of the reasons this has resonated is how easily it could have been something that happened to a lot of people. My neice is traveling by bus for a high school band trip to & from Orlando this weekend. Just last night at dinner we ate surrounded by players/coaches/families from both Southern Cal and Tennessee (baseball & basketball games in Athens yesterday), in just six months or so here I've already lost count of how many teams we've run into around town & those are just the ones we could identify. Meanwhile the state high school basketball tournament is underway with at least 80 teams traveling to regional sites around the state by bus, any of which could have been in the same or similar situation.

[QuikSand]

On a news report today about the accident, they mentioned that this particular exchange (a left-side "exit" from the HOV lane that ramped right up into an overpass) has seen 80+ major accidents in the last ten years. It appears that the bus driver in this case, unfamiliar with the area or this odd constuct, drove right up this exir tramp thinking it was a continuing highway, and was still at full speed when he was supposed to stop to turn left or right on the actual overpass.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

On a news report today about the accident, they mentioned that this particular exchange (a left-side "exit" from the HOV lane that ramped right up into an overpass) has seen 80+ major accidents in the last ten years.

Here's video (albeit daylight video) of the exit ramp, shot from a driver's pov.
You tell me whether a driver should realize they're on an exit.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/met...shhovview.html

Personally, I can believe that someone would exit unintentionally but the suggestion (which has been made by some locally, not sure whether it's being played that way elsewhere) that someone gets all the way to the end of the ramp without realizing they're off the interstate is pretty absurd.

[GoldenEagle]

They had the stop sign marked pretty good, but how many times do you stop on the interstate? It looks it could be pretty confusing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

On a news report today about the accident, they mentioned that this particular exchange (a left-side "exit" from the HOV lane that ramped right up into an overpass) has seen 80+ major accidents in the last ten years. It appears that the bus driver in this case, unfamiliar with the area or this odd constuct, drove right up this exir tramp thinking it was a continuing highway, and was still at full speed when he was supposed to stop to turn left or right on the actual overpass.

I can see someone accidentally ending up in the wrong lane, leaving the highway when they didn't want to, and having to go back around and delay themselves a few minutes. But for a professional driver not to realize he's no longer on the highway when his lane is rising at a pretty steep elevation, while the rest of the highway isn't, is just inexcusable. He had one job, to pay attention and transport everyone safely, and he just royally screwed up.

From what I've read, the accidents that have happened on this stretch involve people finding themselves in the wrong lane, or about to enter the wrong lane, and then trying to get back into the main lanes. The officials I heard speak about this said that they couldn't remember an accident at this particular point - i.e. someone driving up that incline at full speed, apparently unaware that they were were leaving the highway.

[GrantDawg]

That video is not really fair. Try it in the dark when you are unfamilar with the area. I'm sure the driver could have been distracted, or even half-asleep which make it an even easier miss.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That video is not really fair. Try it in the dark when you are unfamilar with the area. I'm sure the driver could have been distracted, or even half-asleep which make it an even easier miss.

He had only been driving for about an hour & those on board who were awake say he wasn't on the phone or CB, nothing so far to indicate any distractions.

My guess (until it's proven otherwise by an autopsy) is that he suffered some sort of physical incident about the time he unintentionally exited - heart attack, stroke, seizure, etc. -- and that led to the crash.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

They had the stop sign marked pretty good, but how many times do you stop on the interstate? It looks it could be pretty confusing.

But that's just it GE, if you're coming to a stop sign after driving up an elevation like that, that ought to be a pretty good indication you aren't on the interstate anymore.

[molson]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That video is not really fair. Try it in the dark when you are unfamilar with the area. I'm sure the driver could have been distracted, or even half-asleep which make it an even easier miss.

Maybe it's confusing for you or me, but it shouldn't be for a pro. That's why they presumably need certifications, near-perfect driving records, ect. (Though as John said, a medical scenario is always a possibility).

And this I'm not sure of - but do buses normally drive in the fast lane? The roads aren't going to be empty in metro Atlanta at 5:00 AM - so presumably a bus has to be going well over the speed limit to be in that lane.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

And this I'm not sure of - but do buses normally drive in the fast lane? The roads aren't going to be empty in metro Atlanta at 5:00 AM - so presumably a bus has to be going well over the speed limit to be in that lane.

It's not really a "fast lane" per se, just an HOV (High Occupancy Vehicle) Lane. Speed limit in it is the same as all the other lanes, it's just usually not as congested so speeds are often higher than the other lanes are able to manage due to congestion.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He had only been driving for about an hour & those on board who were awake say he wasn't on the phone or CB, nothing so far to indicate any distractions.

My guess (until it's proven otherwise by an autopsy) is that he suffered some sort of physical incident about the time he unintentionally exited - heart attack, stroke, seizure, etc. -- and that led to the crash.

I'm wondering about the distraction of having his wife with him. Were they chatting away or something?

Had it been something physical, I suspect one of the survivors would have known something about it.

[spleen1015]

This has to be a situation where the driver wasn't paying attention. The fact that it is an exit is pretty evident and that stop sign is clearly marked and should be noticed by someone driving like they should.

[st.cronin]

Are there street lights there? I know I have serious problems driving at night on roads that are not lit, and my night vision is not as bad as some people's.

[QuikSand]

It's pretty easy for you or me to look at the signage and say "well, that's really obvious." And obviously, for 99.9% of the people who see it, even for the first time, it's not difficult to figure out what it is.

For highway installations, though, the error rate doesn't have to be very high for the setup to be a catastrophic failure. I don't have any expertise about such things, but to me 8 major accidents a year sounds awfully high. If, in fact, left-side exit ramps have a demonstrably higher rate of accidents than comparable installations in similar situations... that's more persuasive to me than my own uninformed impressions about what is adequate marking.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Are there street lights there? I know I have serious problems driving at night on roads that are not lit, and my night vision is not as bad as some people's.

It's one of the best lit sections of road in Atlanta IIRC.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't have any expertise about such things, but to me 8 major accidents a year sounds awfully high.

I've wondered about that a bit, but to be honest my own impression is that you probably couldn't find too many stretches of a mile or more in Atlanta that haven't had 8 major accidents in a year's time.

[NYFAN]

As someone who takes charter buses quite frequently (probably 10+ times a year) to travel to sporting events, I will say this. Most drivers are excellent. However, there are certainly a wide array of drivers in terms of ability. Most tend to drive at what I would consider a comfortable speed, and are very good drivers, but you usually get one or two over a season who are a little more aggressive, or appear to be uncomfortable.

I cannot recall a bus driver making a mistake that put us in serious risk, but I can definitely say that we have had bus drivers where I paid a little extra attention because they seemed to struggle reading signs, comprehending and driving - not the most comforting feeling.

All in all, this situation is pretty terrifying given the amount of bus travel I do, and the nature of the accident. We go down to the Atlanta area every year, sometimes twice, and I shudder at the thought that this could have been my team - it seems like a complete fluke.

I think what mystifies me the most is that there was no sign at all that he tried to stop the bus. You would think that even if he made that assumption, that 1/2 way through the intersection he would have started to break. It would not surprise me if this was partially the result of a medical situation with the driver as someone else mentioned.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Are there street lights there? I know I have serious problems driving at night on roads that are not lit, and my night vision is not as bad as some people's.

If he had problems driving at night he should pick another profession don't you think?

[molson]

Again, the "80 accident" number that's been thrown arround I think refers to accidents involving that lane in general. But what I've heard, there hasn't been a incident where someone drives up this incline and then crashes because they didn't realize they were leaving the highway.

If it's not a medical condition, it would have been vehicular homicide.

[Wolfpack]

I think I see what the problem is. It's the fact that the HOV exit signs all have the HOV diamond on them. If the driver isn't totally attentive, it looks like he should be following what the signs seem to say: that you should exit this way to stay in the HOV lane. I know that when Charlotte rebuilt the 77/85 interchange a couple of years ago, they actually had the southbound 77 HOV lane constructed such that it split from the main traffic flow to fly over the traffic merging from 85 before rejoining the main trunk on the other side of the interchange. Also, note the sign overhead has a banner underneath that says "Buses/Carpools only". He's driving a bus, so perhaps he did really think that was where he was supposed to go. Now, as to why he didn't realize his error once committed, it's a bit harder to say. You'd think the yellow signs warning of a stop sign coming would have tipped him, but perhaps he was distracted or thought something else was going to happen. But, I can see how he could have ended up in the exit lane if the lighting wasn't good and he wasn't fully focused at that time of morning.

[molson]

Originally Posted by NYFAN

As someone who takes charter buses quite frequently (probably 10+ times a year) to travel to sporting events, I will say this. Most drivers are excellent. However, there are certainly a wide array of drivers in terms of ability. Most tend to drive at what I would consider a comfortable speed, and are very good drivers, but you usually get one or two over a season who are a little more aggressive, or appear to be uncomfortable.

Worst bus driver I ever had - On a Greyhound bus from NYC-Montreal, he started saying that he was only authorized to drive 8 hours or whatever, and then we he reached his deadline, he was going to stop wherever we were and just leave (this was in rurual upstate NY). Then he started yelling at everyone. Then when some people spoke up, he kicked them off the bus, and left them there (in small random towns near the border). To this day I don't know why I didn't call 911 or something, that guy was insane.

[Ryan S]

Looking at the junction, I am staggered at how poorly it is laid out. You exit from the fast lane side of the carriage way, onto a slip road which suddenly ends on a bridge, with no traffic lights?

It seems obvious to me that this is a dangerous junction.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by molson

Worst bus driver I ever had - On a Greyhound bus from NYC-Montreal, he started saying that he was only authorized to drive 8 hours or whatever, and then we he reached his deadline, he was going to stop wherever we were and just leave (this was in rurual upstate NY). Then he started yelling at everyone. Then when some people spoke up, he kicked them off the bus, and left them there (in small random towns near the border). To this day I don't know why I didn't call 911 or something, that guy was insane.

Holeee...with someone like that driving, I think I might have tried to get myself kicked off the bus...wow.