GroupThink - Free Agent Pursuits

[QuikSand]

Post your thoughts here on free agent players we ought to pursue. We have a team of scouts who are detailed to work these angles... but all eyes and opinions are welcome.

- - -

The file is up and you can get it at the following address.

FOFC_GT.zip

[WebEwbank]

Indianapolis

Nick Svrcek, a short but powerful WLB, was a 6th rounder in 1987. He's played in 46 games, but only started 10. He looks like a potential starter to me: a big hitter, with endurance and spoecial teams skills, who probably got shuffled back in the pack because of his low draft status; Indy signed a free agent last year to start in front of him, but I would have played Nick, even though his ratings are a little lower. He may be a bargain.

Also Jack Woods, an RDE, has been inconsistent, with two good years and two bad ones. Could be a valuable situational pass-rusher; even though he has zero (0) play diagnosis skills, he has a reasonable amount of stops for a DE, as well as averaging about half a sack a game.

[WebEwbank]

Jax

Winfred Rayburn, 6-1, 312, an RDT, was a first-round pick out of Miami 6 years ago. He could be a gem. While he's only started five games, he has 21.5 career sacks, with run d and pass rush skills in the 80s. He won't be cheap, but he could anchor our interior for years.

Burgess a 9-year G, and Sutter, a 12-year SLB, could be potential short-term help. Sutter is a career-long starter, with over 800 tackles, while Burgess, also a 1st-rounder, has had a puzzling career: two years as a fulltime starter, in both of which he stuck, but despite very strong ratings, has not see the field much at all.

[Doug5984]

Since QB is one of the most important positions and we don't have anyone on our roster worthy of the starting spot I have started to scout the AFC & NFC North (My divisions)...I have all the AFC and MIN of the NFC here are my results so far.
I should finish up with the NFC pretty soon.

Rufus Whitfield - QB - CIN - 14 years experience - 76 Starts - 60% career completion % - 17,000 yards - 103 TDs, 79 INTs - Career QB Rating of 78.4. His ratings have declined and he is currently listed at fair, with a 35 (but our scout is very bad). He seems like he would be a solid pickup to come in and start for a year or maybe come in to just compete for the starting job.

Ruben Coleman - QB - CLE - 6 Years experience - 39 Starts - 60% career completion % - 8,250 yards - 39 TDs, 45 INTs - 72.5 Career QB Rating. He is a younger QB, has started the past 3 years for Cle, his last season he put up a QB rating of 83.3 he is another good QB who would be able to come onto our current roster and be the starter from day 1.

Gus Sham - QB - CLE - 4 years experience - 0 starts, has only thrown 19 NFL passes, he is not very good in ratings or stats. If we were to sign him it should only be to be the # 3 QB on our roster.

Carl Edwards - QB - BAL - 2 years experience - Has not taken an NFL snap. He has pretty good future ratings, and would be able to come in and be a good # 3 QB and be able to develop, but he is a restricted FA. Also, he is from my hometown.

Oliver DeMoen - QB - BAL - 4 years experience - 17 Starts - 61% completion % - 3,342 yards - 16 Tds, 14 INTs - QB rating of 77. He has ok ratings, would be able to come in and either compete for the starting job, or be the # 2 guy. I would not like to build a franchise around him, but maybe have him start a few games a year.

Wes Young - QB - PIT - 13 years experience - 141 starts - 57% Completion % - 29,127 yards - 140 TDs, 148 INTs, 73.1 career QB rating. He is a much more experienced QB than the other ones I have scouted, his ratings are pretty good (in the 40s) and he would be able to come in and be our starter. BUT it appears he has had some injury problems the last few years and he is getting up there in age, as a young team do we really want to bring in this guy?

Jay Roden - QB - PIT - 5 years experience - 6 starts - Not enough stats to judge on, QB rating of 57. He has decent ratings, he is another QB that I wouldn't mind having as our # 2 guy, but I would not want him to be the starter.

Fernando Heisser – QB – Min - 6 years experience – 53 starts – 58% completion % - 11,391 yards – 50 TDs, 81 INTs – 64.9 Career QB Rating. He is a young and very good QB. His stats are a little skewed because he was forced into the starting lineup his first year, and he threw 34 INTs that year, since then he has been much better. I would be very happy with him as our starting QB going into week 1.

Monty Houston – QB – MIN – 7 years experience – 3 Starts. He has very little stats, he is rated as being a QB in the low 40s, pretty good. His ratings indicate he is very good at short to medium passing, also at avoiding INTs, but he is not very good at throwing the deep pass. He might be a good choice if we are going to run a ball control offense. I think he could make a good QB for us.

Stanley Lyons – QB – MIN (all 3 are FAs) – 8 years experience – 4 starts. He is rated as the best QB on MIN’s roster, but I would rate him as the # 3 guy. He is still a very good QB across the board. I would be happy if he was our starting QB. All 3 of MIN’s Qbs are FAs this year so I would expect them to try and resign at least one of them.

Edit: To finish up the NFC


Michael Grzeki – QB – CHI – 9 years experience – 77 starts – 64.8% completion % - 16,000 yards – 120 TDs, 42 INTs – 95.5 career QB rating. All I can really say about this guy is WOW. He is listed as a 96. And he has played like it. He is by far the best choice as a FA QB, the only problem is he might want a lot of money, and if CHI is smart they will Franchise him. That being said, he also has a turf toe injury that I would be alittle worried about but he is an amazing QB.

Christian Garrett – QB – CHI – 6 years experience – 0 starts, 17 career passes. He is a young QB, not that great. I wouldn’t mind signing him for minimum and have him come in and compete for a roster spot, he would be a good # 3 QB.

Dexter Terrell – QB – CHI – 5 years experience – has not yet thrown an NFL pass. I would not offer this guy a contract at all. He is not very good, and I think we would be better off bringing in an undrafted rookie FA.

Rico Foug – QB – DET – 6 years experience – has not yet thrown an NFL pass. He has decent future potential, but is 0 in both reading d and avoiding INTs. He could maybe make a good # 3 QB. I would not take a chance on letting him start for an extended period of time.

Jay McCord – QB – DET – 15 years experience – 69 starts – 58.2% completion % - 15,730 yards – 67 TDs, 80 INTs – 72.0 QB Rating. He is a very experienced QB, knows 17 formations, has decent ratings, I wouldn’t mind having him as the # 2 QB, possibly the # 1 guy.

GreenBay only has 1 FA QB, and he is a restricted FA, and not a very good one.


This is how I would rate the top 5 FA North QBs.
1. Michael Grzeki- CHI
2. Fernando Heisser- MIN
3. Ruben Coleman- CLE
4. Monty Houston- MIN
5. Wes Young- PIT

These are only the QBs from the north, so If the other divisions are even close to this I don't think we will have a problem finding a good QB to be our starter.

[QuikSand]

Given primelord's defensive leanings, we might do well to ursue a guy like 6th year WLB Gerald John, currently a FA, who has been the Titans' #3 or #4 LB the last couple of years. His strengths are in run defense and zone coverage, but he lacks the overall skills or gaudy stats to demand big money. I dont' know what he'll ask for, but my guess is he could be had for less then 3% of our salary cap, and should make a nice fit in our intended 4-3 zone-heavy scheme.

[Doug5984]

After a quick look over the CBs a few that caught my eye that would probably fit Primelord's zone scheme are:
Alfred Dennis- MIA. Good zone, horrible bump and run.
Alan Varner- GB. Good zone, and INT.
Jeremy Springer- ATL. Good zone, decent all around CB, and a cool name.
Jeremy Edgewood- SEA. Good zone, and run D. Not very good everything else.
Marlon Tubbs- CIN. Good all around CB, but not good Run D

[primelord]

Doug,

Deon Walls didn't catch your eye at CB???

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by primelord
Doug,

Deon Walls didn't catch your eye at CB???

yes he did, very much so....but 70 million over 5 years is a very large sum of money, and after a bidding war it could get up over 80 million.

Also I just finished scouting the AFC north for possible free agent targets, I went after solid guys with low asking #s...these are not all of the possible guys but these are a few of the ones that I liked:

Julio Gilooly- WR- BAL- 1 year .97 million (minimum). He is not that great of a rated WR, but he is a 6 year vet and has some talent, and the minimum I think it would be a good idea to bring him in, maybe offer him a 2 year minimum contract and he would be a nice # 3 or 4 WR until we get some real talent on our team.

Terrell Winters- DE- CIN- 3 year 9.63 million. 5 year vet, won rookie of the year. Has been a full 4 year starter, has put up 34 sacks. He is rated as a 46, and at the price he is asking for I would not mind having him on our roster.

RJ Strickwerda- DT- CIN- 2 year 3.71 million. 11 year vet, 1 time 1st team DT, 1 time 2nd team DT. 51 sacks 131 starts. Might have some injury problems- hasn’t started a full 16 games in 5 years. He is cheap and also rated a 46.

Marlon Tubbs- CB- CIN- 2 year 1.94 million (minimum). He is a 0 in run defense which is very bad, but he is a decent pass D with his strength in zone coverage. With him wanting a 2 year minimum deal I would like to see us sign this guy and after training camp we can release him if we need to.

Tracy Pederson- LT- CLE- 3 year 4.07 million. He is a 5 year vet, has started 26 games. Is rated a 36, but future 48. Downside- has a 4 in endurance. Asking price is pretty low, A possibility for a good back up OT.

Joey Carlson- FS- CLE- 3 year 5.34 million. He is a 7 year Vet who has not yet had a chance to start. He is very good in Zone & Bump and Run. Would be an adequate FS for 3 or so years and is only asking for a little money.

Carlton Perez- ILB- CLE- 2 year 4.14 million. He is a 7 year vet, has started 59 games. He is great at stopping the run, and at pass rush technique. He is not that great of a coverage LB, but relatively cheap and great at stopping the run.

Quentin Flynn- SS- PIT- 2 year 3.37 million. He is a 6 year vet, had only started 5 games. 74 in zone D, 56 in INT, very good all around SS asking for very little money. Could come in and be a very nice addition to our secondary for relatively cheap.


Edit: The NFC North Free Agent Possibilities

I just finished scouting the NFC North for some more possible free agents, MIN is stacked with very good free agents but most of them are asking for a lot of money:

Neil Enright- WR- CHI- 4 years 22.21 million. He is asking for quite a bit of money, and has never had more than 1,000 yards receiving. He is rated as a 46, if we are desperate for WRs he might not be a bad guy to go after.

Donnie McKenzie- SLB- DET- 4 years 26.67 million. Again, he is asking for a lot of money, but he appears to be a more than adequate LB, and would fit nicely into our system.

Rico Foug- QB- DET- 1 year .97 million (minimum). He is a not so great QB, but could be brought into training camp to compete for a roster spot, would probably sign a 2 year minimum contract.

Bobby Burroughs- LG- DET- 2 year 2.13 million (minimum). He has been a 3 year starter, with 5 years of expereience and he is only asking for the minimum, he would be a nice addition to add some depth to our line.

Grant Lowe- K- GB- 3 year 5.79 million. He is one of the best kickers in the league, and since our offense might not be so great we might want to pick up a good kicker.

Rod Springer- LG- GB- 2 year 1.8 million (minimum). He is an adequate LG asking for the minimum salary, not starter material but would be a nice backup.

Deon Vogel- FL- MIN- 4 years 51 million. He is a very expensive WR, but he is also one of the best, may not be worth the price asking, but a lack of WRs might force us to overpay a little.

Jeffery Ford- ILB- MIN- 3 years 19.4 million. He is an above average ILB, asking for quite a bit of money. Might be a good pickup, but a little overpriced.

Monty Houston- QB- MIN- 3 years, 8.5 million. He is a decent QB, would be able to come in and be a starter until we find a good long term replacement. He is very good at short passes and avoiding INTs, might fit well with our ball control offense.

J.B. Gaines- WR- MIN- 8.3 million 2 years. He is an old WR, 11 years experience, has good ratings. Would be a nice fit for 2 seasons while a younger WR gains experience. I would really like this guy for a 2 contract.

[Bee]

I'd like to see if we can find some inexpensive backup/starters on the offensive line. I'd like a starting center, a backup guard and backup tackle for cheap. Definitely want to bargain shop and see what we can find in the free agent market.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Bee
I'd like to see if we can find some inexpensive backup/starters on the offensive line. I'd like a starting center, a backup guard and backup tackle for cheap. Definitely want to bargain shop and see what we can find in the free agent market.

That's the spirit... I don't think we want to commit huge resources to the interior line, unless we come across a real "difference-maker." Finding passable, cheap guys at C and G is pretty easy in this game, generally speaking.

[Bee]

Originally posted by Doug5984
Tracy Pederson- LT- CLE- 3 year 4.07 million. He is a 5 year vet, has started 26 games. Is rated a 36, but future 48. Downside- has a 4 in endurance. Asking price is pretty low, A possibility for a good back up OT.

I like Pederson as a potential backup and wouldn't mind us going after him.


Bobby Burroughs- LG- DET- 2 year 2.13 million (minimum). He has been a 3 year starter, with 5 years of expereience and he is only asking for the minimum, he would be a nice addition to add some depth to our line.

Rod Springer- LG- GB- 2 year 1.8 million (minimum). He is an adequate LG asking for the minimum salary, not starter material but would be a nice backup.


I like RG Shaun Meekin much better than these guys, even though Meekin is much more a pass blocker than run blocker. Meekin will sign the 2year min sal like Burroughs and is overall a better player IMO. Check him out and see what you think.

Also, if you have time check out centers.

I like Tyrone Roush from Dallas a lot, but he may be out of our price range for a center. Clarence Cates from New England may be serviceable. Darren Westmoreland is also a possibility, but I like Cates a little better.

[strait8]

The first thing I always do is look for the best bargains in free agents. My criteria are as follows

Future Potential experience 0-7 years and salary under 2.58 million. This gives you guys who are not stars but ready to break out.

Doing a search with this I came up with quite a fewinitial players I like.
Because we want to be a running team:

Andre Penick New orleans Guard undrafted looks like a lot of upside

Take a look at left tackle Tracy pedersen a solid backup for10.06 no bonus

Quinn Cleveland lots of upside cheap and worth a look former 4th rounder

Quaterbacks Marlon Gerard good short passer some upside
I like Monty Houston better than Gerard better size something tells me he could be our starter.

On defence:

The steal of this group are two linebackers
Russel Von hagel Good run D good play diagnosis and good size for MLB
John Gerald could be a starter but also a solid backup

JR golder looks good at SS though he is not big in pass cover skills he's good against the run.

I find a lot of DT's bloom late so I like Wally Han and Benny White former 2nd rounders.

My next post will be on current value Bargain basement players

[sasquatch]

Of the FA QBs, I'm most intrigued by Cleveland's Reuben Coleman. He's relatively inexpensive for what we'd be getting, and could capably start from the beginning. He's better than any QB in the draft, except for maybe Earnest Dillon, but I don't think we're going to be in a position to draft him.

[strait8]

To find what I thimk are mature players, but not over the hill ,who won't break the bank, I use the following criteria.

Current Value 0-9 years salaries under2.58 million.

Reuben Coleman QB 39 games played, looks like a solid passer accurate who is available for 8'.5 over 3 years

Calvin gaines G 9 year vet who is a solid player with good KRB and and excellent 1.5% sacks allowed %. he's available for 3.3 million

Christian Howe Dt a former 1st rounder available for 6.6 mill /3 yrs.
Solid run stopper.
Henry Triiplett FS lloks like he could be a starter with the bonus that he would be good on the special teams

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by Bee
Also, if you have time check out centers.

Zach Nickerson- C- CIN- Will sign for a minimum contract, is rated as a 36, but he only has an 8 in Run Blocking. I would maybe sign him just to bring him into training camp and then decide later if we want to keep him.

Graham Heartman- C- PIT- 10.38 million, 3 years. He is rated as a 52, 42 in Run blocking and 64 in pass blocking. Would be a pretty good starter, but is asking for quite a bit of money for a player with his talent, is also a 13 year vet.

Artie Walek- C- DET- Will accept the minimum. 5 year vet, current rating of 28 future 52. Would be a decent center, more suited for a back up role.

Those are the only unrestricted free agent centers in the AFC & NFC north, not much picking from there...it seems to be a weak year for centers this year. Also, I agree Meekin is probably one of the best bets for a gaurd, very cheap and is rated as the best gaurd willing to take minimum money.

For centers in general I like Clarence Cates of New England, Les Ramirez of Dallas. Also out there is Stan Brees, he is a 13 year vet who is asking for a 2 year minimum salary, he is rated 71 in run blocking and 76 in blocking stregnth. The only downside with him is he is only an 8 in pass blocking- but if we are a run oriented offense he might not be a bad pick up.

[Bee]

Somewhat unusual that the center position is this weak. I'm inclined to go with a minsal guy to start this year and look for someone more long term next year.

[QuikSand]

I've been looking at free agent QBs also... Coleman is probably on the list to consider. He's pretty cheap, and doesn't look bad.

I'd like to find a guy with a slightly more refined skill set... I actually like Stanley Lyons, but his demands are ridiculously high. Much the same for his teammate, Fernando Heisser, another guy I like a good deal.

Among the other "affordable" options, I like another Syracuse guy, J.J. Wilkerson, a bit despite his lofty INT totals. Monty Houston isn't a complete package, but has played well in limited duty.

And I can't let "Marsh" Mello get by without comment. Another great name guy... he's astually a guy who merits a little attention. And James Iafrate is also worthy of a look.

There are a lot of ways to go here... the decision will be how many guys to pursue, and how aggressively?


My instinct would be to go after Coleman and probably one other among the cheap options (perhaps Shaun Craig or Monty Houston). We ought to be able to bag one or both of them, and then we'd have some more palatable options than our current crop.

With this many free agent guys on the table, I don't see any need to pursue any of our incumbent guys except for the youngster.

[QuikSand]

Does the system of "scouting" by division make sense? I ddn't have any objection at the time, but now, it seems silly that Doug is looking at the guys from the central divisions... when anyone with the files can do what comes much more naturally, and look at a given position, comparing all players.

Just an open question/thought...

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I've been looking at free agent QBs also... Coleman is probably on the list to consider. He's pretty cheap, and doesn't look bad.

I'd like to find a guy with a slightly more refined skill set... I actually like Stanley Lyons, but his demands are ridiculously high. Much the same for his teammate, Fernando Heisser, another guy I like a good deal.

Among the other "affordable" options, I like another Syracuse guy, J.J. Wilkerson, a bit despite his lofty INT totals. Monty Houston isn't a complete package, but has played well in limited duty.

And I can't let "Marsh" Mello get by without comment. Another great name guy... he's astually a guy who merits a little attention. And James Iafrate is also worthy of a look.

There are a lot of ways to go here... the decision will be how many guys to pursue, and how aggressively?


My instinct would be to go after Coleman and probably one other among the cheap options (perhaps Shaun Craig or Monty Houston). We ought to be able to bag one or both of them, and then we'd have some more palatable options than our current crop.

With this many free agent guys on the table, I don't see any need to pursue any of our incumbent guys except for the youngster.

I really like J.J. Wilkerson, he seems like he might one of our best options, seems to be more of a complete QB. I also like James Iafrate he seems like a guy very similar to Wilkerson. Coleman is also a good, young option we have at Qb, but my # 1 guy is Monty Houston- He is young, cheap, and a pretty good talent. The reason he really stands out from the pack to me is that he is very very good at the close passes, avoiding INTs, and third down passing. He reminds me a lot of Trent Dilfer and what he did with Baltimore the other year, he is the type of QB that won't lose games...he might not be able to win them on his own, but he won't lose a game by throwing 4+ INTs. This is how I would rate our options right now:
1. Monty Houston
2. J.J. Wilkerson
3. Ruebem Cole,am
4. James Iafrate
5. Curtis Assler

[strait8]

I personally like Coleman and Houston. I see no shining stars in the QB draft so I'm all for a guy who wont make too many mistakes.

if you look at Coleman he is a 6 year vet but he has only played for 3. he has a 60% passing average. His Int's are high but I think all young QB's have this in this game.

On Houston it's hard to get a read but my astrological chart and bar reading voodoo makeme think he is solid with a possibility of stardom if and its a big if he gets lots of playing time.

I find if you plug a guy like this in and you give most of the snaps by the end of the first seson he improved 25-30%

[sasquatch]

If we pursue two QBs, I think the two should be Coleman and Houston, as they are both semi-talented, but their skill sets don't really overlap. I don't know if 2 okay QBs = 1 Good QB, but together they might be able to work out.

[QuikSand]

I'm feeling liek reasonable offers to QBs Houston and Coleman would be close to a consensus move. That, along with the kid on our roster now, would give us three guys - we'd have the position filled, and we'd have *options* without investing too heavily.

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I'm feeling liek reasonable offers to QBs Houston and Coleman would be close to a consensus move. That, along with the kid on our roster now, would give us three guys - we'd have the position filled, and we'd have *options* without investing too heavily.

That sounds like a good idea. To fill our RBs I would keep Oksenberg, sign Don Lambeau of Seattle (he is just the best FA RB willing to take the league minimum), and I would also suggest resigning Winfred Raymond to give us our 3 RBs...and we could also look at drafting a better backup in the draft.

Edit: For TE I really like TE Arnold Stern, DET. He is a good blocking TE, and is asking for only 3.6 million over 2 years, seems like a good fit for us until we find a good long term solution. Another TE to be take up a roster spot is Carlton Meier, PIT. He is another very good blocking TE, he is also a decent reciever, and he is willing to take league minimum. The 3rd guy could be just about any FA TE that is willing to play for the league minimum.

[wade moore]

OC THOUGHTS

QB:

Coleman (CLE)- He reads defenses well, has an accurate arm, but at the same time he isn't bad on the INTs.

Houston - I'm not as sold on this guy as Doug. I do not like his accuracy at all, it abismal. He might not get interceptions, but will he get completions?

Barker (TEN) - There is of course a part of me that would love to have this guy. The reigning Super Bowl MVP, and 255 career TDs. He is of course at the weigning stages of his career and quite expensive

Pritchett (KCY) - I'm not sure why no one has mentioned this guy. For only about 500k more in cap hit than Coleman, we get a guy who is definately proven. he had a 28/9 TD/INT last year and has a lifetime 89.5 rating. he is right at 2:1 ratio for TD:INT of his career, thrown for over 3,000 yards in his last 4 years, and is completing passes at a rate of 60%. He is not quite as young as the other guys, but seems to bring more to the table.

Recommended Pursuits:
1. Pritchett (KCY)
2. Houston (CLE)

RB/FB:

RB McKnight (FA) - This guy may be worth a 1 year contract. He has averaged 3.8 yards in limited action and has great elusiveness. He is mediocre beyond that, but relatively cheap.

RB Wolf (ARI) - If you hadn't noticed, I emphasize performance a bit more than bars. Wolf has averaged 4.5 ypc in his first 4 years, with over 100 carries each year. He topped 1,000 yards the last two years. His Hole Recognition, Elusiveness, and Breakaway speed make for a great combination. He's only a 2.5-3.5 mil hit on the cap, and a proven back already in his 5th year in the league. My only concern is I'm not sure how to use him -- he has no power inside and no speed to the outside? But somebody is doing something right with him.

RB Lambeu (SEA) - Decent breakaway speed and a good receiver, not much to look at but he is a minsal player.

RB Bayless (SEA) - Our other minsal candidate. Although less breakaway speed, he seems to be the better runner than Lambeu, and almost equal receiver. I would take him over Lambeu.

FB Sharber (DET) - This guy is cheap (minsal) and has solid blocking capabilities. I like to go heavy with the lead blocking, and Sharber is a 64 in Run Blocking and 45 in Pass (with a possibly weak interior line, this could be important). His blocking strength concerns me a bit, and he's not going to run much -- but that's not something that I look for a FB to do

FB Grant (ARI) - Very similar to Sharber, but a little older and with better blocking strength. He is a weaker Pass blocker.

Hopkins (SEA) - A bit more than minsal, so I'm not sure if he's a guy we should look at. However, his 56 receptions last year caught my eye, along with solid ratings in the blocking department. This guy can block and catch out of the back field, although he can't run very well.

Duncan (STL) - *drool* I would LOVE to have this guy. Pricey for a FB ( 2.4 cap hit), but he is a prototype FB. 88/76 in Run/Pass block, 98 Power Inside running, and a 68 Hole Recognition. On top of that his block strength is quite strong and he doesn't fumble. The only negative I see to this guy is his Third Down Running is absolutely 0.

Lepsis (SDO) - A bit like Duncan, but with less power and more Blocking Strength. Similar Price, I like Duncan and this guy about equaly.

Recommended Pursuits:
RB Wolf (ARI)
Duncan (STL) or Lepsis (SDO)
Sharber (DET)
Bayless (SEA) - If we need a minsal guy

WR/TE:

Gilooly (BAL) - A minsal guy with some decent talent, Really able to get downfield and willing to take hits in the middle. Probably worth picking up for some depth, he has already had one stint with our squad a few years ago.

SE Wallis (FA) - a minsal guy I would really like us to look at. He is solid with big plays and courage, again giving us a solid 3/4 guy who can make some plays. He may have a lot of drops.

SE Barnes (JAX) - An original draft pick of ours, this seems like the type of possession reciever we could really use. At a relatively good price (2.3 mil per) he has great route running and 3rd down catching. He shouldn't drop the ball too much either.

SE Rose (OAK) - At only 1.85 per, this guy seems like a bargain. He can get downfield, and has scored 11 and 10 TDs the last two seasons. Averaging over 15 yards per catch in those two seasons.

FL Johnson (GBY) - A bit pricey at 8 mil over two years, he is a legitimate down the field threat.

FL Green (SEA) - This guy is a legitamite threat. His cap hit is 6 mil per year, but he can do it all. With a guy like this on the offense, we could open it up more.

TE Brennan (DAL) - a minsal guy with good blocking numbers. I would like to have this guy on the squad, even if he is not the starter.

TE Graham (FA) - another minsal guy, he is a little bit of a better receiver than Brennan, but weaker as a blocker.

TE Stern (DET) - A Great blocker, he is also a solid 3rd down receiver and good route runner. A bit pricey at almost 2 mil per.

Recommended Pursuits:

FL Green (SEA)
SE Rose (OAK)
SE Wallis (FA)
FL Johnson (GBY)
TE Graham (FA)




Unfortunately I don't have time to look at the Line, but Bee seems to have hit that realy well.

[cthomer5000]

I'll should be able to get my take on the Eastern divisions up tonight.

[wade moore]

Quik,

I see your point about the divisions.. I'm not sure what the best way is... to be honest, I thought the divisional scoutsw ould help us more in "mock drafting", scouting other teams, etc.. and in the future.. they can watch the divisions throughout the year and see who performs well, who is on the verge of breaking out, etc... I don't know what the ideal way to set it up is.. if we do it by position, do we step on the toes of the position coaches?

[Bee]

Just a suggestion on the scouting.

I think we have 3 scouts + a scouting director?

If so, one could be assigned to free agents on defense, one to free agents on offense and one to the rookie draft.

The scouting director could fill in at all areas as needed and offer a "final" evaluation?

------

Or,

scout 1 - offensive skill positions
scout 2 - offensive and defensive linemen
scout 3 - LB's and DB's
scouting director - oversees this and scouts the draft?

[wade moore]

Bee,

That sounds like a fantastic idea.. cthomer?

[primelord]

Here are my thoughts on the free agent LB's out there.

ILB:

Lonnie Bell - Oakland 5 yrs. 38.1 mil - He seems like an exact fit for our defensive system. He is awesome at stopping the run and is solid in zone coverage.

Jeffry Ford - Minnesota 3 yrs. 19.3 mil - He isn't the run stopper that Bell is, but he is solid against the run and seems to be just as good in zone coverage. He is also a much better pass rusher although that isn't as important in our system.

OLB:

Adam Sutter - Jacksonville 2 yrs 15 mil - He is asking for more than we are probably willing to spend, but he is skilled in the areas we need and his stats show he can provide the type of coverage we are lookign for.

Damon Farley - New Jersey 2 yrs 13.2 mil - He has similar skills to Sutter and is a little cheaper, but he has been injured in each of the last 4 seasons inclusing only playing 4 games last year. He is also getting pretty up there in age. Still looks like he could produce if he stays healthy though.

Gerald John - Tennessee 2 yrs 4.3 mil - I think Quik was right we should really think about going after this guy. He seems to fit our system very well and is priced nice. A low risk high reward type of guy.

Rufus Horn - Kansas City 2 yrs 4.2 mil - He looks like a poor mans Gerald John, but still has put up solid numbers as a 5 year starter and is another bargin buy.

Overall thoughts:

It might make sense to go invest some decent money in a guy like MLB Lonnie Bell and then put the cheaper system guys like John and Horn on eitehr side of him.

[QuikSand]

Any thoughts on DT Winfred Rayburn? He looks like a real standout at DT, and shoudl be very good against both the run and the pass. I cannot find anyone commenting on him - but this is the sort of guy who would really help our defense, I'd think.

Loks like he wants a deal for something like $12m a year, though - big investment.

[primelord]

I was waiting on Booj to make comments on the DLineman, but yes Rayburn looks awesome. He would be ideal for our defense. I wonder why he hasn;t been starting in Jacksonville. 9 sacks in limited duty looks nice.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by wade moore
Bee,

That sounds like a fantastic idea.. cthomer?

the big problem is people getting stuck with shitty positions.

maybe the division plan will work for in-season scouting (us watching the progress of other teams, and players in the last year of contracts).

But perhaps we should go to a position-by-position form for the off-season?

[primelord]

On another note. Guys like Deon Walls and even our own Armostrong would be very nice to have, but if we are looking to spend big money on defense a guy like Rayburn would be a much better choice. We can get by with cheaper corners, but if the defensive line fails to create pressure we are in for some trouble.

So on that note if somehow Brackens were to fall to us at #4 in the draft and we sign Davison, Rayburn and maybe a cheaper option like D.J. Kempthorn we will be VERY close to the dominant defensive line I am looking for.

[Easy Mac]

Free Agent WR's:

1. Donnell McKnight, SE - The only SE worth pursuing for a decent price, his overall rating is 42/42. He looks to be a solid backup, and could be our kick return guy. He is good at route running and has courage. He has been in the league 9 years, and didn't drop a lot of balls last year.
Cost: $3.38 million over 2 years.

2. Ed Dewalt, FL - He's only in his 3rd year, so he is young. Looks to have a fair amount of potential and should play cheap. He looks to be a pretty good big play receiver.
Cost: $690,000 for 1 year.

There are not many good free agent WR's, so I think we should wait until after the draft and pick up a free agent WR then.

For TE's:
Either Kenyon Galloway or Skip Hutchinson as they are both priced about the same, but Galloway looks to be a steal for his price. I think we could get Dusty Graham as a backup, he's cheap and a decent player. And then again sign a scrub after the draft.

[Easy Mac]

I'm working on the breakdown of the WR's draft, should be done tonight, so don't go on w/o me.

[wade moore]

Easy,

Any specific opinions on the guys I recommended? I'm curious to see where we differed...

[QuikSand]

Oay, I have made a "first draft" of FA moves... these are allentered into my computer. I'll post it here, and try to get back some feedback. The only "big money" free agents that I included on our pursuit lists are WR Green and LB Bell - and we may need to discuss upping our offers if we're serious about getting those guys.

Here's my first cut - any analysis, additions, or subtractions are welcome:

(please forgive the chatty tone)

- - -

Before first week:

New deals for RFA players:
QB Danny Rhodes – 3 yrs
DE C.J. Davison – 4 yrs
LT Hardy Woolridge – 5 yrs
LG C.J. McAfee – 2 yrs
C Claude McGough – 3 yrs
LG Nicky Rober – 3 yrs (he’s accepting a simple reduction – no extra harm is we release him later)

We’ll wait on new offers to RB Oksenberg and CB Armstrong – both of whom might depend on their affordability.

Players released:

NT Jamal Alston
DT Jack Winslett
LB Roman Pote

That gets us to look at our current lot of players, and see who we’ll make offers to:

SS Donnie Bridgeman – 4 yrs, $30m
RT Blaine Johnson – 3 yrs, $5.57m
FS Clay Upshaw – 2 yrs, $1.94m

That looks like the end of our own players. We might consider WR Montgomery for a deal later, but only if things don’t go well in the FA market for us.

So, we hit the open market for free agents. Based on feedback from the various threads, here are our initial offers:

QB Monty Houston – 3 yrs, $8.80m
QB Reuben Coleman – 3 yrs, $8.80m
QB Roger Pritchett – 3 yrs, $8.80m
(my thinking is that we put out the offer to these three guys, and sign two of them)

RB Scottie Bayless – 2 yrs, $2.0m
FB Kelly Duncan – 3 yrs, $7.20m

WR Everett Rose – 2 yrs, $3.71m
WR Clifton Wallis – 2 yrs, $2.20m
WR Arnie Green – 3 yrs, $18m

TE Dusty Graham – 1 yr, $690k

LG Andre Penick – 3 yrs, $5.34m
RG Shaun Meekin – 2 yrs, $2.40m

DE Donald Wooden – 3 yrs, $8m
DT Christian Howe – 3 yrs, $7.2m
DT Mark Mahoney – 3 yrs, $7.2m
DT R.J. Strikwerda – 3 yrs, $5.48m

ILB Lonnie Bell – 5 yrs, $42m
OLB Gerald John – 3yrs, $6.9m
OLB Rufus Horn – 2yrs, $4.26m
OLB Ray Grier – 2yrs, $4.4m

CB Alan Varner – 2 yrs, $5.56m
CB Preston LaRiche – 2 yrs, 5.90m
CB Alfred Dennis – 2 yrs, $5.32m

SS Quentin Flynn – 3yrs, $5.36m
FS Walter Wetherbee – 4yrs, $16.8m
FS Joey Carlson – 3 yrs, $5.34m
FS Karl Linegar – 2 yrs, $2.29m

[Easy Mac]

The main thing I took into account (sorry don't have the game open right now, and on my way out for a few) was price, and how they rated, and if they fit with what I thought the team could do, and where we may go in the draft.

I basically disregarded any player with over $2 million asking price. I just don't find the need at this moment to spend on an older WR, as I've found they get pretty brittle as they get older in the game. I would rather get guys who can make a short catch and maybe break it, but who plays for cheap. I don't anticipate getting a franchise QB quite yet, b/c frankly in this game you don't need one to win.

And if we are going WR in this draft, which I hope we do, I think we can get one of the top 2, and then a pretty good one after the draft. I don't feel the need to spend $$$ on the position, when we can build it through the draft.

[QuikSand]

Mac, I have no problems pulling my initial bid for WR Green. His name was the only one that came up in the discussion so far, and I agree he looks like a decent player. But it's a wide open question whether he's worth that kind of investment, especially if we are planning to invest heavily in our running game and make that our real offensive focus.

[Bee]

I'd like to add a couple linemen to our free agency offers.

G Calvin Gaines
C Clarence Cates

I'd love to go after C Tyrone Roush if we have the money, but if not then Cates should be an adequate starter at center for now.

If Wade is planning on running up the middle a lot, then it might be worth spending the money on Roush.

edit: If we go after Roush, I say still put a bid in on Cates but if Roush signs drop the offer if Cates hasn't signed yet.

[primelord]

Quik we should look at DT D.J. Kempthorn he is cheap and I think a better fit than Mahoney or Strikwerda. Especially if we manage to land Bell.

Also have we decided to not to pursue DT Rayburn?

[Easy Mac]

QS

Its up to you guys, it all depends on how you guys plan to build the team. We seem to have a very good RB, and I would rather get a valuable WR in the draft. But if we go another direction in the draft (i.e. Defense), then I think Green would be a valuable commodity. It depends on how people would prefer to spend money. I'm not keen on breaking the bank for a FA wideout, especially if we are going to build up the running game.

If we're going in the direction of running the ball, I think we need to focus on the O-line and a blocking TE/FB in the FA process.

[primelord]

I really like the guys in the secondary we have made offers to. If we can land Wetherbee and resign Bridgeman we will be set at safety.

[QuikSand]

I think FS Wetherbee is my favorite player who is in the FA pool - he'd be an outstanding complement to Bridgeman. I love that pair.

As or DT Kempthorn, it's my own bias showing, I suppose. I always gravitate toward DTs who are pimarily run stoppers, and look to get pass rush from the outside. Kenpthorn looks pretty good, I'll agree - it might make sense to add him to the list of pursuits, rather than replacing other guys. It wouldn't hurt to have 3 solid DTs we could rotate in. But that investment, I think, probably eliminates the (financial) ability to really go after DT Rayburn for the really big money.

As for now, I have added offers to G Gaines, C Cates, and DT Kempthorn to my list from above.

[Bee]

LT Tracy Pederson was also on my wish list.

That should finish out the o-line, with maybe a URFA or two to take into training camp and see if we can get a breakout player.

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I think FS Wetherbee is my favorite player who is in the FA pool - he'd be an outstanding complement to Bridgeman. I love that pair.

As or DT Kempthorn, it's my own bias showing, I suppose. I always gravitate toward DTs who are pimarily run stoppers, and look to get pass rush from the outside. Kenpthorn looks pretty good, I'll agree - it might make sense to add him to the list of pursuits, rather than replacing other guys. It wouldn't hurt to have 3 solid DTs we could rotate in. But that investment, I think, probably eliminates the (financial) ability to really go after DT Rayburn for the really big money.

As for now, I have added offers to G Gaines, C Cates, and DT Kempthorn to my list from above.

I just looked at Wetherbee, and wow he looks like he would be a great player for our team, and hes not to expensive. I also think we should go after Kempthorn, I remember Primelord saying that a vital part of our D was to get pressure on the QB only using the 4 lineman, and this the that kind of player, he would be a great passing down D-lineman, or he could start full tiem if we needed him to.

Another player I havn't seen mentioned yet is WR Ed DeWalt, he is not a very good WR but is decent and will accept the minimum salary so more or less he could just be a camp body, but i really think we should go into the draft with atleast 4 WRs already on the roster...just incase one of the 2 doesn't slip to us.

[QuikSand]

I have added offers to WR DeWalt and T Pederson.

Remember, we are almost certainly not going to get all the players we pursue... so I don't mind overshooting the mark a little bit in some places. That said, I also don't knwo how much it's worth investing in minsal veterans as our deep bench... I'd be just as happy grabbing a sizable hanfdul of URFA players, and seeing what they can do.

[Bee]

Will we run through until week 10 in free agency and then re-evaluate?

[strait8]

I don't see the point of spending 42 mill at MLB when this very adequate guy is available

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by strait8
I don't see the point of spending 42 mill at MLB when this very adequate guy is available

I think I asked this same question earlier, but upon further review, Von Hagel does not fit our defensive system at all...he is a 2 in zone coverage, and that is his primary position- a zone coverage MLB.