GroupThink - Current players

[QuikSand]

Post here with your thoughts on our current players - who's worth a new deal? Who can be some of our foundation players?

(I believe we're following a rule that any player we decide to keep must have a new contract in place - so their demands will be important, even those who are already under an existing contract)

- - -

The file is up and you can get it at the following address.

FOFC_GT.zip

[QuikSand]

As the team's GM, I have taken the liberty of speaking with agents for many of our existing players. (translated - I have simmed ahead slightly, but within the context of our rules - I have just looked at the initial demands for our players, so we can have a basis for our discussion at this point)

Here is a brief synopsis:

POS NAME                  Yrs  Total     Bonus        1990         1991



QB Ed Parisi               2   $3.1 M     970K        1.45         1.64

QB Danny Rhodes            3   $2.1 M     none        1.21         1.34



RB Brent Oksenberg         6  $67.5 M    10.1M        8.55         9.94

RB Shawn Singletary        2   $8.6 M     2.9M        4.24         4.38

RB Winfred Raymond         2   $2.2 M     none        0.97         1.19



TE Jesse White             2   $3.9 M     970K        1.79         2.12



WR Robert Montgomery       2   $3.8 M     970K        1.84         1.91



LT Hardy Woolridge         5  $13.7 M     2.1M        4.38         4.75

LG CJ McAfee               2   $1.5 M     none        0.77         0.83

LG Nicky Rober             3   $2.5 M     none        1.36         1.50

C  Claude McGough          3   $2.1 M     none        1.11         1.24

RG Roderick Wilson         2   $3.7 M     970K        1.85         1.85

RG DJ Burnett              2   $8.1 M     3.9M        3.99         4.09

RT Casey Ledyard           4  $25.3 M     5.9M        4.88         5.73

RT Blaine Johnson          3   $5.6 M     1.5M        1.85         1.85

RT Jake Cerda              3  $15.2 M     5.9M        4.92         5.07



P  Jumbo McIntyre          4   $9.4 M     2.0M        1.79         2.12

K  Brant Carr              3   $3.6 M     none        1.19         1.19



DE Ed Minahan              3  $12.2 M     2.9M        3.41         4.01

DT Ryan Waeltz             2   $4.9 M     970K        2.23         2.67

DT Jamal Alston            3  $11.2 M     2.5M        4.38         3.68

DT Preston James           1   $2.1 M     480K        2.08         ----

DE CJ Davison              4  $18.2 M     3.4M        5.63         6.29



LB Jermaine Fox            2   $5.2 M     2.0M        2.57         2.65

LB Philip Sanford          1   $2.2 M     480K        2.18         ----

LB Antonio Curtis          3  $15.2 M     2.9M        4.18         4.99

LB Al Monaghan             3   $7.7 M     2.9M        2.48         2.55



CB Brent Buchanan          3  $12.8 M     2.9M        3.55         4.19

CB Alonzo Armstrong        5  $72.3 M    12.2M       10.06        11.97



SS Donnie Bridgeman        3  $23.1 M     7.3M        6.59         7.62

FS Bryan Bell              2   $3.8 M     970K        1.74         2.06

FS Clay Upshaw             2   $1.9 M     none        0.97         0.97

[Bee]

When I get home this evening, I'll download the file and give my opinion of our offensive line. Good to see us finally moving ahead a little.

[QuikSand]

Bee, I think you'll find that te OL is one of our best-stocked areas, at least in terms of what's already on our plate. LT Woolridge looks excellent, and there are several others who might be worth pursuing. The salaries will probably dictate reasonableness, but you'll have more to look at that most any position coach.

[Bee]

Based on salaries only, it looks like we may have a few solid players across the board.

The receiving looks like a major area that will need addressed though. I think Wade mentioned a run oriented offense, which I will try to keep in mind while looking over the offensive line.

Edit: Before we do too much evaluation of current talent, will we be hiring a new scout? I haven't looked yet, but my understanding is our scout isn't very good.

[Doug5984]

I would really like for us to be able to keep Brent 'Ox' Oksenberg, but 67 million over 6 years is a lot of money. CB Alonzo Armstrong is also very good but he is asking for 72 million over 5 years. I would also resign our punter, he is very good and not asking for much money, and we will more than likely be punting a lot this year. RT Casey Ledyard is also a good talent, and he isn't asking for too much money so I think we should resign him also. QB Danny Rhodes is asking for close to minnimum so I think we should give it to him, in a year or 2 he might make a very good backup, I am just very scared of his 0 in avoid interceptions and his 1 in sensing the rush- those 2 seem like a deadly combination for a INT happy QB.

[Easy Mac]

So these are the guys you want to keep, b/c there are only 10 players under contract, correct? Or do I not have the correct file?

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by Easy Mac
So these are the guys you want to keep, b/c there are only 10 players under contract, correct? Or do I not have the correct file?

I think that is correct, yes. one of the house rules though is for us to keep anyone currently on the roster wehae to give them a new contract.

[Easy Mac]

As WR coach, I'd rather have Howard at SE if it is more feasible financially. He is about hte same in avoid drops, and better in route running and 3rd down catches. He seems to be a good possession receiver.

However, if Montgomery is a good over the middle guy, so he may be able to take the pounding better inside. But he isn't as good at running routes, so that may get us in trouble on the short balls. BUt if it is better financially, then stick with Monty.

And at FL, since I don't know their price, if you had to go with one stick with Clancy, he can get down field better.

[primelord]

I am not sure which thread to put this in so this seems as good as any of them. Here is a quick run down of the defensive philosophy I am planning on putting in place.

We are going to run what will resemble a Cover 2. Unfortunately not all aspects of a Cover 2 can be replicated in FOF, but we are going to try our best. So scouts and defensive coaches keep this plan in mind when evaluating players.

Game Plan - Not suprisingly we will be running out of the 2 deep zone most of the time. I would like to play bump and run from time to time, but more times than not we will drop into zone. We may play a little more man defense in the first few years until we really get the players we need to make this defense work, but that is the goal.

Defensive Line - The men up front are the most important part of this defense. I don't want to blitz a ton so the front 4 have to get pressure on the QB or the opposition can just sit back and find holes in the zone. When we are in man we will play mostly bump and run to try and give the DLine a little more time to get to the QB. Dlineman must be able to rush the passer and they must be able to stop the run. With the safeties dropping back into deep coverage their won;t be a ton of help from the SS to stuff the run.

Linebackers - Our LB's aren't going to be blitzing much so their focus should be on their zone coverage skills and their ability to stop the run. Again it's very important they can al play the run because by the time the back hits the safety he will have already gained some significant yards.

Defensive Backs - In this system we aren't going to rely on our CB's quite as heavily as most systems. A good portion of the time they will be covering the flats so they don't always have to be able to shut a WR down. They have to have good zone coverage skills and be able to play the run. They should also be good bump and run defenders for when we do play man. Some of the cost of the DLine can hopefully be made up here where we can get away with not top tier CB's. Of course a shutdown CB doesn't hurt either.

Our safties are much more important part of the secondary. They have to have excellent zone coverage skills as their will be many times where they are the only ones down filed with the WR's. They don;t have to be great run defenders although that doesn;t hurt. But they have to be ball hawkers. Excellent coverage ability and INT's is a must.

So thats the defense in a nutshell. I am going to probably blitz the CB's slightly more than normal since their coverage assignments are generally just the flats and other short routes. So again keep these ideas in mind when looking at our players.

[strait8]

I wanted to join in. How and where do you down load the file?
Thanks for your help

[Doug5984]

All you do is download the file (it is in the first Group Think thread the one that is 5 pages long, its on the bottom of the 4th page.) Then you extract it into your universe file but when you do this you will lose all your saved games, so you should make a back-up.

[Mike47]

Hey everyone,

I am going to being doing a "quick analysis/bio" of each positional group on our team curently. I will be starting with the QBs first. Once I find another break in homework I'll tackle the RBs.

I am not sure which type of offense we will be running as of yet so these bios will not include how "well" the player fits our system.

QB CHARLES JAMES - This TCU alumn started 8 games last year for Houston and did not through a single TD pass. This guy is a bum, has been his whole career, but with solid potential could be kept around as plan B...or C. He's recognized by fans, but then again so was Scott Mitchell and Ryan Leaf and...
--UNSIGNED--

QB ED PARISI - This guy may be a gem in the rough. He hasn't had much experience but has performed great when given the chance. His career numbers, though minimal, are staggering, his attitude is second to none and his teammates seem to adore him. Not much more you can ask for out of a QB, especially when they're from the depths of the '85 draft (6th round).
--UNSIGNED--

QB DANNY RHODES - A second round pick out of Arizona State a year ago, Danny has yet to see NFL action. A hometown kid out of Alvin, TX; he's the only Houston QB currently under contract. He has the potential to be a solid NFL QB, but may be better suited watching from the sidelines for at least another year.
--1.59M--

QB CORNELIUS STOTTS - A former first rounder pick by New York, Stotts career has been shaky at best. He became New York's starter in his 4th season and in three years threw 40 TDs and 51 INTs. He missed only one start in those three years but finished with QB ratings of 79.1, 69.9 and 65.5 respectively. Although Stott has "1st round bust" written all over him, he reminds me a lot of Kerry Collins (in real life). He started 7 games for Houston last year, throwing 6 TDs and only one pick, finishing with a QB rating of 78.9. Could he finally be finding his groove? He's a fan favorite and, if he doesn't ask for an arm and a leg, may be worth keeping around...just in case.
--UNSIGNED--

Guys, we have the worst pass coheision in the league. It wouldn't hurt us any to resign some familiar faces.

Thanks for reading!

[QuikSand]

Easy Mac - on my first look over the WR group, only Montgomery was at all reasonably priced - the others were all seeking more money. I didn't see anyone in that group who was really worth a serious investment - I'd rather try to build up from youth, and maybe grab a veteran free agent or two if they are fairly cheap (often the case in FOF4, with middling-level guys). We'll have more building to do there than at most positions, I think.

Depending on our ofensive philosophy, WR might be a wise position for a fairly high draft pick... maybe our first or very possibly a second rounder. Once we get a look at the draft class, we can start scouting the rookie group - and get a feel for whom we like there.

[QuikSand]

**House Rule Reminder**

Just incase you missed it (understandable with the lengthy setup thread) - here's how we are looking at our current roater of players.

Anyone we want to keep must get a new contract. Anyone else currently on contract must be released or traded away.

So, we cannot just sit tight with RB Oksenberg, for example - we need to offer him a new deal, or else let him go. Same goes with anyone else currently signed. So, rather than focusing on the value of their current contract, check out the "demands" I have listed above - that's what each player is asking for.

Hope that helps.

[DolaBump]

Okay, as secondary coach I should probably actually take a look at those guys instead of worrying so much about silly little things like coaches and scouts -- I'll leave that to the Big Q.

First off, I've always felt that the most important guy in a cover 2 is the SS and we've got a good one in Donnie Bridgeman. He's already a top SS in the league and his strengths are Zone D, Run D and as a punishing hitter (always nice in a SS). I'm basically looking for John Lynch here, and I think this guy's close. Not to mention he's been with the team for 9 years. He wants $7 mil a year (including bonus), and he's be the highest paid safety in the league, but with a $129 mil cap and the importance of the SS in a cover 2, I think he's worth it.

Also, one thing I like to see in a Cover 2 is the inclusion of corners in the blitz packages, particularly the nickelback. Basically I like the idea of leaving it open to bring any player from any position on a blitz, but only using it to keep the offense off balance while usually dropping into Zone coverage.

That said, we've got a tough decision to make at corner. Alonzo Armstrong is an excellent Corner, but he wants a top 5 salary. He's an all-around cover guy, very good at interceptions, he's got 4 each of the past two years. I think he's probably worth it, especially as young as he is (26), but along with Bridgeman we're talking 10% of our cap tied up in two players in the secondary.

[QuikSand]

For what it's worth... here are my first cut comments on each position group. I created this before having any knowledge of the players' actual demands, so some of the observations will have been obviated. But if this contributes to the discussion, great.

- - -

Roster review
Through the eyes of our nitwitted current scout Johnny Kim, incidentally

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  



James, Charles          10  QB   7    36                40                ---     

Parisi, Ed              5   QB   6    29                46                ---     

Stotts, Cornelius       14  QB   8    20                23                ---     

Rhodes, Danny           15  QB   2    17                52                2 yrs.  

Ed Parisi was the better of our two QBs last year – James threw 7 picks and no TDs on the season, ouch. With a reasonable offer, I think Parisi is worth pursuing, though he’s a 6th year player and will be unrestricted. Young Danny Rhodes shows some promise, but I wonder about him. The abysmal rating in avoiding interceptions makes him, in my eyes, a guy who will never really be reliable. This is clearly a need position.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

Oksenberg, Brent        49  RB   4    63                72                2 yrs.  

Singletary, Shawn       37  RB   7    36                36                ---     

Henry, Damon            31  RB   7    34                41                ---     

Raymond, Winfred        28  RB   7    32                38                ---     

Salinas, Joseph         46  FB   10   33                36                ---     

Clancy, Renaldo         45  FB   4    30                44                ---     

RB Oksenberg ought to be solid, and he doesn’t have the stats to suggest a big money demand, either. He looks like a guy to try to lock up with a long term deal, and make him a staple of the offense. I expect that Shawn Singletary will be too expensive to pursue. The FBs are nothing special.

Oksenberg should be a foundation player for this franchise.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  



White, Jesse            85  TE   7    40                42                ---     

Schroeder, Deron        88  TE   10   36                37                ---     

Evans, Jorge            83  TE   6    27                42                ---     

Jesse White has been pretty productive, and might merit some attention – but he’ll be unrestricted, and might be a tough buy.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  



Burgess, Bernard        86  FL   12   34                34                ---     

Clancy, Everett         81  FL   8    32                35                ---     

Howard, D.J.            82  SE   9    35                35                ---     

Montgomery, Robert      80  SE   9    34                34                ---     

I don’t see much of anything here to like – looks like our offense is going to struggle through the air as we get started.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

Wooldridge, Hardy       63  LT   2    32                73                5 yrs.  

McAfee, C.J.            67  LG   3    28                45                1 yr.   

Rober, Nicky            73  LG   3    21                54                3 yrs.  

McGough, Claude         52  C    2    17                58                2 yrs.  

Burnett, D.J.           68  RG   14   47                47                ---     

Wilson, Roderick        77  RG   15   47                47                ---     

Ledyard, Casey          64  RT   7    55                56                ---     

Johnston, Blaine        69  RT   13   54                54                ---     

Cerda, Jake             78  RT   12   47                47                ---     

Hardy Woolridge didn’t get much playing time last season, but we ought to make every effort to retain him, and get him going right away. He’s slightly pass-skewed, but he’s a potential star – another foundation player, I think. Burnett and Wilson are long-timers, and their play has been decent. That might make the youngsters waiting in line decent values for a re-signing. RT Casey Ledyardt looks pretty solid, but he might cost a good bit, after three years as a pretty productive starter. Not a star, but worth a close look at his demands.

We’ve got a pretty good point to work from here – the OL should be a relative strength.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

McIntyre, Jumbo         1   P    6    73                75                ---     

Carr, Brant             6   K    8    51                51                ---     

McIntyre is excellent, but punting isn’t exactly our top priority right now (though we may be doing quite a lot). Carr is solid, but same concern applies – with a couple of cap-strapped years ahead, how much do we want tied up in these spots? A groupthink dilemma awaits, I suspect.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  



Minahan, Ed             97  LDE  8    40                42                ---     

Waeltz, Ryan            91  LDT  5    37                50                ---     

Alston, Jamal           76  NT   6    43                49                1 yr.   

James, Preston          98  RDT  6    36                43                ---     

Winslett, Jack          79  RDT  3    23                36                1 yr.   

Davison, C.J.           71  RDE  3    41                69                4 yrs.  

Gann, Dean              93  RDE  10   39                42                ---     

Bates, Aaron            94  RDE  11   13                16                ---     

DE C.J. Davison is the guy to get excited about here, and he should be fairly cheap to sign longer term, since he has only 3 starts. (Why is Aaron Bates starting? Anybody?) Past Davison, there are a few guys to watch, but probably worth pursuing only if the price is really right.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  



Pote, Roman             59  SLB  2    19                43                1 yr.   

Simonain, Zack          51  SILB 12   36                36                ---     

Fox, Jermaine           53  MLB  10   35                35                ---     

Sanford, Phillip        92  WILB 8    36                36                ---     

Curtis, Antonio         56  WLB  6    41                41                ---     

Monaghan, Al            96  WLB  10   37                37                ---     

Fulton, Mo              55  WLB  12   36                36                ---     

A mixed bag here – much will come down to primelord and his LB philosophy, I suspect. We’ve got a couple guys in Fox and Curtis who are pretty solid against the run – that’s one way to go (and they might be fairly cheap, too). But nobody jumps out as a big money player here. Another need area.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

Buchanan, Brent         25  LCB  9    39                39                ---     

McLellan, Joel          43  LCB  10   38                38                ---     

Wiggins, Cedric         41  LCB  6    37                37                ---     

Armstrong, Alonzo       44  RCB  4    60                65                ---     

Sadowski, Dan           26  RCB  6    38                38                ---     

Bridgeman, Donnie       48  SS   9    68                68                ---     

Poston, Donovan         40  SS   16   36                36                ---     

Bell, Bryan             34  FS   8    39                39                ---     

Upshaw, Clay            21  FS   6    30                45                ---     

CB Alonzo Armstrong might be the best player currently on the defensive roster, and since he’s restricted, we ought to be able to negotiate a passable price. If we value CBs highly, then this is a guy to try to lock up, I think. Veteran safety Donnie Bridgeman might cost us a lot for the safety position, but he brings a lot to the table – some lofty tackle totals to go with good all-around skills, and veteran experience. Solid, I think.

[Mike47]

Good outline Quicksand. I guess I wont bother with the rest of the positional bios (unless you guys enjoyed reading them lol).

I wrote the QB bio with the knowledge that our scout was a "nitwitt" but never, in my wildest imagination, did I expect him to be as horrid as he actually is (I looked after I wrote the QB bio). Replacing this guy should be our first priority IMO.

[Bee]

Before making any final decisions about the players, I'd like to see us get a decent scout in place. I'd just rather us be as accurately informed as possible before making final decisions.

Perhaps QS can move forward with hiring a scout and coach. It is his job and I trust him, the GM, to make the decision without our input. JMO.

[primelord]

Originally posted by Bee
Before making any final decisions about the players, I'd like to see us get a decent scout in place. I'd just rather us be as accurately informed as possible before making final decisions.

Perhaps QS can move forward with hiring a scout and coach. It is his job and I trust him, the GM, to make the decision without our input. JMO.

One thing to keep in mind is the draft is randomly generated every year after the coach hiring phase. So once we hire a new staff the game file will have to be redistributed out to everyone so everyone can see the draft players.

We can fudge it some by just having everyone that has the file hire the coach and scout so they can see what the difference is. But later tonight I would need to hire the coach and scout and then put the file up for download again.

[Bee]

Well, again just my opinion, but I'd like to see QS go ahead and make the call on the scout and coach, and let us move ahead and redistribute the file.

That way the scouts could get started looking at the draft rookies and we have more info on what's available in free agency vs the draft vs our team, we have a better take on the players all around and we are in position to really discuss the decisions.

[primelord]

Originally posted by Bee
Well, again just my opinion, but I'd like to see QS go ahead and make the call on the scout and coach, and let us move ahead and redistribute the file.

That way the scouts could get started looking at the draft rookies and we have more info on what's available in free agency vs the draft vs our team, we have a better take on the players all around and we are in position to really discuss the decisions.

Don't get me wrong. I think that is a good idea. I was just saying we need to keep in mind that the file has to be redistributed out once the coach and scout have been hired.

[primelord]

Allright now that we have a new scout I will give my thoughts on our current defensive players.

 Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  



Minahan, Ed             97  LDE  8    40                42                ---     

Waeltz, Ryan            91  LDT  5    37                50                ---     

Alston, Jamal           76  NT   6    43                49                1 yr.   

James, Preston          98  RDT  6    36                43                ---     

Winslett, Jack          79  RDT  3    23                36                1 yr.   

Davison, C.J.           71  RDE  3    41                69                4 yrs.  

Gann, Dean              93  RDE  10   39                42                ---     

Bates, Aaron            94  RDE  11   13                16                ---

I agree with Quik's assesment that Davison is the only one really worth getting excited about. Good run defense and a pretty good pass rusher. He should fit nicely in our system.

Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  



Pote, Roman             59  SLB  2    19                43                1 yr.   

Simonain, Zack          51  SILB 12   36                36                ---     

Fox, Jermaine           53  MLB  10   35                35                ---     

Sanford, Phillip        92  WILB 8    36                36                ---     

Curtis, Antonio         56  WLB  6    41                41                ---     

Monaghan, Al            96  WLB  10   37                37                ---     

Fulton, Mo              55  WLB  12   36                36                ---

I am not particularly thrilled with any of these guys. We seem to have a ton of one dimensional LB's on this squad. Fulton is the only one who has any zone coverage skills. I'd worry about putting guys out there with no zone coverage skills since they will be solely responsible for pass coverage over the middle.

With that being said if we are forced to some of the guys with very run stopping ability wouldn;t be all that bad I guess. The TE is just always going to be open in their area.

  Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

Buchanan, Brent         25  LCB  9    39                39                ---     

McLellan, Joel          43  LCB  10   38                38                ---     

Wiggins, Cedric         41  LCB  6    37                37                ---     

Armstrong, Alonzo       44  RCB  4    60                65                ---     

Sadowski, Dan           26  RCB  6    38                38                ---     

Bridgeman, Donnie       48  SS   9    68                68                ---     

Poston, Donovan         40  SS   16   36                36                ---     

Bell, Bryan             34  FS   8    39                39                ---     

Upshaw, Clay            21  FS   6    30                45                ---

I thought DolaBump's assesment was right on. We obviously won't have any problem holding on to Armostrong since he is restricted and Bridgeman has a Very High loyalty rating so we should easily have the inside track on him too. They both fit our system very well. Although they both lost a little something under our new scout.

[DolaBump]

The thing I like best about Davison is his price -- a relatively modest $5.6 mil. He's not much of a pass rusher, though. His size allows us to move him to the other side, though, if necessary.

In the secondary, Clay Upshaw is a bargain backup, though he's not much of a cover guy -- he's been in the league for 6 years, but only played for two of those seasons. If we're strapped, he's not a bad option. The rest are asking a bit much, but we'll have to see how things play out.

[Bee]

 

Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

Wooldridge, Hardy       63  LT   2    30                65                5 yrs.

I think we definitely should resign Wooldridge. He has solid potential and He's idolized by the fans (which I think by house rules we have to offer him a contract).

  

Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

McAfee, C.J.            67  LG   3    26                41                1 yr.   

Rober, Nicky            73  LG   3    19                46                3 yrs.

McAfee may be worth keeping as a backup, but Rober can go as far as I'm concerned. Neither guy is a legitimate starter, but McAfee could fill the role if we are desperate.

  

Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

McGough, Claude         52  C    2    16                50                2 yrs. 

McGough may be worth keeping as a backup center, but we'll need to get someone in that can start at center.

 

Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

Burnett, D.J.           68  RG   14   47                47                ---     

Wilson, Roderick        77  RG   15   45                45                ---   

Both of these guys are in their twilight years and if we decide to go with a youth movement, I say let them go and bring in a couple young guys via free agency to start at LG and RG. If we sign one of them, let's go after Wilson since he has the lesser contract demands.

  

Player                #   Pos  Exp  Current Estimate  Future Estimate Cntrct  

Ledyard, Casey          64  RT   7    54                54                ---     

Johnston, Blaine        69  RT   13   50                50                ---     

Cerda, Jake             78  RT   12   43                43                ---     

Although Johnston is getting up their in age, I'd like to bring him back. He's the leader of the offensive line and will bring stability. He's also very affordable. Ledyard and Cerda are both asking for too much money IMO. I suggest we hit the free agency market and find a backup tackle.

[strait8]

Thanks for all your help.

The first thing I always do is look for the best bargains in free agents. My criteria are as follows

Future Potential experience 0-7 years and salary under 2.58 million. This gives you guys who are not stars but ready to break out.

Doing a search with this I came up with quite a fewinitial players I like.
Because we want to be a running team:

Andre Penick New orleans Guard undrafted looks like a lot of upside

Take a look at left tackle Tracy pedersen a solid backup for10.06 no bonus

Quinn Cleveland lots of upside cheap and worth a look former 4th rounder

Quaterbacks Marlon Gerard good short passer some upside
I like Monty Houston better than Gerard better size something tells me he could be our starter.

On defence:

The steal of this group are two linebackers
Russel Von hagel Good run D good play diagnosis and good size for MLB
John Gerald could be a starter but also a solid backup

JR golder looks good at SS though he is not big in pass cover skills he's good against the run.

I find a lot of DT's bloom late so I like Wally Han and Benny White former 2nd rounders.

My next post will be on current value Bargain basement players

[Bee]

I like both Pederson at tackle and Penick at guard.

The only problem I have with Penick is he wants a signing bonus and a little more than the minsal. I'm not sure if the front office wants to commit to that or go with a guy like Shaun Meekin for the 2 year minsal. I wouldn't mind signing both Meekin and Penick if possible and then letting both the old RG's (Burnett and Wilson) go. Any thoughts about that?

[strait8]

I'd sign Pennick, meakin and Calvin Gaines. Our guards are not as good and should be axed.

[strait8]

These guard are rated 10th and lower overall. I wouldn't bid for them till week three of the FA period.

[QuikSand]

Okay, before we get sidetracked looking at free agents (this is the current players thread, after all) wher are we with out current list of guys? Here's my best synthesis so far:

- Let's spend big money on RB Oksenberg, SS Bridgeman, LT Woolridge and DE Davison. That locks up something like $25 million, but gives us a nice group of foundation players to build around. Expensive, but very solid.

- Looks like we should keep the young and decent QB Danny Rhodes, and then delve into the FA market for our needs at QB, rather than invest in our current guy

- Our other skill positions - WR, RB, and TE - don't look like great candidates for retaining our players due to fairly low skills and high costs

- At the OL, we have some dissention at RT - but the OL coach wants to keep the cheap Johnston. As for interior guys - maybe not (though re-signing old man Wilson is possible.

- On DL, consensus is that we have the emerging star in Davison, and nobody else worth keeping

- Similarly, not much to work with at LB

- At DB, Alonzo Armstrong is a guy to follow, as a RFA. If he gets reasonable, we shoudl sign him, otherwise we may need to let him go. Tough call - his asking price is pretty high, and won't drop all that much.


That doesn't include many "filler" players, really. We'll be building mostly from outside the team, in that case.

Anyone have thoughts on:

TE Jesse White
WR Robert Montgomery
FS Clay Upshaw

[Doug5984]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Anyone have thoughts on:

TE Jesse White
WR Robert Montgomery
FS Clay Upshaw

FS Clay Upshaw- I would keep him, he is willing to take a 2 year minimum deal. If we sign him and decide to cut him later it is a no loss deal, I would go for it.

WR Robert Montgomery- He is not very good, and I wouldn't really want to pay him much over the minimum, so I would let him go. Although we might want to keep him just so we can have a little cohesion in our WR corps.

TE Jesse White- I would let him go, we can find a better replacement for cheaper in FA or the Draft.

Also, I noticed quite a few players on our roster are willing to sign for a minimum salary with no signing bonous, I would give all these players a 2 year minimum deal (3 if they ask for it)...This will help us keep a little cohesion on the team, and if we decide later to cut them it is a no loss situation.

[strait8]

I agree with your assesment of current players totally

[Bee]

Calvin Gaines looks like a legit guard to me as well.

Looks like the interior o-line will be completely revamped if the boss ok's it.

[Bee]

QB Stotts -

I believe he's a fan favorite so do we need to offer him a contract as per the house rule?

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Bee
I believe he's a fan favorite so do we need to offer him a contract as per the house rule?

I think the spirit of these rules is more or less prospective - I don't think it's fair to us to be hamstrung by things we couldn't control. So my inclination is to grant the team a free pass this year on that particular rule - but after that, it is in our hands, and we'll have to follow suit.

Seem reasonable?

[Booj]

Here is my opinion as D-Line coach...

Ed Minahan, LDE Solid player, but not worth keeping at his asking price. Someone else can easily replace him for cheaper.


Ryan Waeltz, LDT Poor endurance worries me, but 5.5 sacks off the bench seems like he is a guy we could use to put pressure on the QB, as per our game plan.

Jamal Alston, NT Not worth keeping around in our 4-3.

Jack Winslett, RDT Not worth a look

Preston James, RDT An alright player, but poor pass rush skills turns me off on him and our D.

C.J. Davison, RDE A guy like this makes my job so much easier . A keeper

Dean Gann/Aaron Bates, RDE No thanks.. we can get a solid backup for Davison elsewhere.

[DolaBump]

Assessment by position group:

QB -- I'm with the consensus, resign Rhodes, let the rest go.

RB -- I'm not entirely sold on Oksenberg, but I'm not going to oppose signing him, he looks like he'll be good. While the rest are subpar, Winfred Raymond could be a decent back-up as a min-sal guy. Renaldo Clancy is another candidate as a min-sal backup (at FB), he's been on on the team 3 years and is an RFA.

WR/TE -- Montgomery is the only guy I'd consider bringing back, but we can probably find better in FA for about the same price. We can find guys with ewual or better ability for essentially the same price as Jesse White (TE), but he's been with us all 7 years f his career, not to mention being our receivers leader. I'm leaning against resigning him unless he comes down on his price.

O-Line --
Bee's all over this and I agree with him, though I think we should definitely keep Mccough, who's a young guy willing to take a pay cut w/no bonus (not sure HOW to deal with that within House Rules).

K/P -- McIntyre wants to be the top paid punter in the league though he's not top 5 (despite his All-Pro honors). Wait and see with him, as well as Steve Davison.

D-Line -- Again, Booj has this pretty well covered, and since Davison is an RFA, we don't have to worry about being outbid. I also like resigning Waeltz. Since we need to get pressure with the front four, we have to consider rotating our guys and he's a nice pass-rushing DT asking for a modest bonus.

LB -- I like Simonain as a pass-rush specialist, but he's asking a bit much for that, plus we have to switch his position. Monaghan is another guy we could get by with, though he's been abused in the passing game. I think we may just want to clear everyone out here.

DB -- Ah, my guys. See above for a more detailed analysis. Basically, we need to keep Bridgeman and I would love to keep Armstrong, who's already better than every FA corner except Walls (who's first name says it all, despite the spelling), and he's borderline top ten already. He's asking for an average of $14 mil a year -- if we can get him down to $8 mil that firs year and an average of about $10-11, I'd really like to hang on to him. Otherwise, Clay Upshaw is the only guy I'd keep, strictly as a back-up and for cohesions sake (plus he's cheap). There are some FS in FA though who are a bit better for the same money, so we can let him go if one of those guys stands out.

[wade moore]

I know I'm late to the party, but unfortunately this time of the morning is the time I have to look at the files.. Here's my position on our offensive players after seeing the opinions of my coaches and scouts.

QB:

As stated by many, Rhodes seems to be the only one worth signing. He looks to be ready for a decent career, and is asking for quite a low salary. His avoid sacks does not bother me that much, as we hope to stack the line pretty well, particuraly on the outside. The avoid interceptions though, as QS mentioned, makes me think he should never be our #1 guy and we should sign a "solid" (read: not a superstar) QB in FA along with possibly taking a flyer on a guy in the mid-rounds (perhaps the one QS mentioned, but I have not had time to look at that yet) Forget the rest.

RB/FB:

Shawn Singletary - Why has everyone written this guy off? Looking at his numbers (I think an important factor), He averaged 5.2 yards per carry on more carries than Oksenberg (4.4 ypc) last year. He has had a 1,000 yard season and his cap hit would only be around 4 mil, rather than the 8-10 mil for Oksenberg. It would be nice to have Singletary around for inside running while the young back develops to his potential

Brent Oksenberg - I, of course, would love to have him. I would like to see what he could do with a full season of starting, but I am also not quite as sold on this kid, like DB. I would love to see the money put out for him. With a solid line (this line we have now he got 4.4 yards behind) and a good backup, he could be a superstar

Other RBs - useless

FBs - I see no reason to keep either of these guys. I look for a FB with solid, solid Run Blocking capabilities, and these guys are OK at best. I'm sure we can find better in FA.

WR/TE:

WRs - Not a single one of these guys has caught more than 30 balls in last season, and not more than 55 in a single season -- that REALLY concerns me. There is a reason they haven't, they are no good. Montgomery, at his price, might be worth keeping around for a 3rd WR and cohesion, as he costs under 2 mil a season, but I'd prefer to look for someone with a little more explosiveness.

TE - I really like Jesse White. He was our leading receiver the last two years and has averaged 50% in Key Run Blocking over his career. His demands are somewhat high for a TE, but I think he could really fit well into our offense. His catching percentage was higher than any of our WRs. The other TEs I could care less about.

OL:

Woolridge - Gotta keep him, no question

Rest - I concur with my OL coach, Bee. McGough would not be a bad sign as a backup if we want to keep some consistency, Johnston on the Right side would be another good buy that we could look around for someone else, but he could start if need be

Now onto the FA thread..

[Bee]

Originally posted by QuikSand
I think the spirit of these rules is more or less prospective - I don't think it's fair to us to be hamstrung by things we couldn't control. So my inclination is to grant the team a free pass this year on that particular rule - but after that, it is in our hands, and we'll have to follow suit.

Seem reasonable?

That's fine with me. I just wanted to bring it up, so we don't cheat the fans.

[wade moore]

Just curious.. what is our pace for the offseason going to look at? Any idea when we'll actually starting doing these contracts and/or FA contracts?

[DolaBump]

To be honest, with so much $$ tied up in Oksenberg, my thought was not to commit 10% of our cap to our RBs (as I simultaneously suggest committing more than that to two guys in our secondary ). Looking at hium again, his only real drawback is his fumbles (7,8 and 8 starting 16,4 and 7 games respectively the past 3 seasons). He's a guy who it would be nice to have, but if we make Oksenberg a priority I think we should see how things look before going after Singletary (though he could end up as one of those guys who has a fantastic year next year with someone else).

[Bee]

RB isn't my position, but I'll throw out my opinion. I don't think Oksenberg is worth that kind of cap space. I'd rather us go after one of the RB's in the draft in the 2nd round. There are 3 or 4 who have very solid current ratings and would not be a significant downgrade from Oksenberg IMO. A couple should be available in round 2 (or even possibly later) which would save us a huge amount of cap space to go after other free agents.

[wade moore]

DB,

I definately see that point, but just as with the D, i want Running to be a core of our offense, so I don't mind tying a fair amount of cash to that position. A part of me would almost rather Singletary and some of the other FAs that all of that money in Oksenberg. I just seem to follow numbers more, and Singletary has great numbers.

[wade moore]

As I just stated, I'm kind of leaning towards the same thing as Bee the more I read it. We can get something in FA or Draft, whereas Singletary has proven himself to be able to get great ypc and is much cheaper. QS, any thoughts? I would assume if we go RB in the second round, we won't go WR in the first..

[Bee]

When I looked last night at the RB's in the draft, there were 3 or 4 that stood out to me. It wouldn't surprise me to see at least 1 drop to the 3rd or possibly even the 4th round (based on what I've seen in previous drafts with similar type RB's). If you sort them by current ratings, the top 3 or 4 RB's all look solid. The first guy will probably go in round 1, but some of the others may drop into the later rounds.

I'd definitely pick up one of those guys in the later rounds if they drop, at the least they would be a solid backup in case of injury. The other thing to keep in mind is we might be able to trade down in round 1 and pick up an extra pick or two.

[primelord]

If we are thinking about investing some serious money in Armstrong then maybe we should be looking at FA CB Walls. They are asking for about the same amount at the moment. Walls price will probably be driven up some and Armstrong's will certainly go down, but either way they will both probably be pricey so if we are going to make the investment Walls is easily worth it.

[wade moore]

I unfortunately have not gotten the chance to look at the draft yet, but I have seen a couple of comments about the RB Class being good. I'm interested to see how QS feels about not keeping this guy for that kind of money. I feel comfortable with it, particuraly if the RB Class in the draft is that solid. If we could get a guy about equal, then we should go for it since he would be cheaper and I think with what I see Singletary (if we had him) would get the starting position anyways.

[Bee]

Just to clarify my opinion on the RB draft.

I don't think it's a great draft for RB (no one stands out at all), but there are a few "good" RB's. So it's more deep than good (if that makes sense).

[wade moore]

It does.. like i said, i need to look at it.. but Oksenberg is not a "great" back.. that's why i'm concerned about wrapping so much money into him...


ps, i hope everyone is enjoying the bee and wade show this morning

[Bee]

Nothing like working with aerial photos of 6 counties to give you time to post online.

zoom in, read the board for 5 minutes.

zoom out, read the board for 10 minutes.

repeat.