More OOTP5 Improvement

Ben E Lou · 02-09-2003, 05:03 PM

This is getting fun. I'm now 3-for-3. Check it out.

Markus is apparently trying to turn Ol' SkyDog into a fanboy.

MizzouRah · 02-09-2003, 06:46 PM

From now on, we will go through you when we have ootp ideas!

Skydog or Luckydog?

Todd

Anrhydeddu · 02-09-2003, 06:56 PM

What's disappointing is that you actually use the DH lineups.

Bonegavel · 02-09-2003, 07:32 PM

Too bad this sort of thing doesn't happen with Front Office Football.

SkyDog, you apparently know more about baseball than the guy programming a game about the sport. I am still blown away by your rotation thing and the fact that this wasn't included until you mentioned it (for the second time, if IIRC).

Blackadar · 02-09-2003, 07:47 PM

Good idea, SkyDog.

MizzouRah · 02-09-2003, 08:39 PM

It's great we hear feedback right away from Markus on isses people bring up. That's rare nowdays.

Todd

Swaggs · 02-09-2003, 08:46 PM

Maybe you should suggest inflation, SkyDog.

lynchjm24 · 02-09-2003, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swaggs
Maybe you should suggest inflation, SkyDog.

If you are talking about inflation in OOTP - I think it's best if they avoid it. It would be very tough to replicate - and even in real life there isn't constant inflation - MLB is going through some serioius deflation right now.

FBPro · 02-09-2003, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swaggs
Maybe you should suggest inflation, SkyDog.

Ugh, this is one of the features about FOF I wish I could turn off. The salaries become meaningless after awhile, paying 25 million(or whatever a year) for a backup QB.....stay away from it.

kcchief19 · 02-09-2003, 10:33 PM

I still think Sky Dog has photos of Markus dressed as Captain Stubing next to him as Issac the Bartender in his dress whites.

I'm not trying to be an OOTP basher, just a realist -- the programmer for OOTP is a German who didn't start following the game until later in life -- and it shows. There are a lot of "common sense" things that just aren't in OOTP that get overlook with the eye-candy and the depth.

Despite that, OOTP is right now the premiere baseball sim in the business -- which to me means that if you took a great programmer who ate, slept and crapped baseball, you could blow OOTP out of the water. Shaun Sullivan seems like he's that kind of guy. I'm going to be interested in how PureSim turns out.

Markus Heinsohn · 02-10-2003, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kcchief19
I still think Sky Dog has photos of Markus dressed as Captain Stubing next to him as Issac the Bartender in his dress whites.

I'm not trying to be an OOTP basher, just a realist -- the programmer for OOTP is a German who didn't start following the game until later in life -- and it shows. There are a lot of "common sense" things that just aren't in OOTP that get overlook with the eye-candy and the depth.

Despite that, OOTP is right now the premiere baseball sim in the business -- which to me means that if you took a great programmer who ate, slept and crapped baseball, you could blow OOTP out of the water. Shaun Sullivan seems like he's that kind of guy. I'm going to be interested in how PureSim turns out.

You're right, I have not started following baseball until I was 15, but that was 10 years ago

I feel I have learned a lot since OOTP 2, when I got more into real sabermetrics.

So, what "common sense" things are you talking about? I'll be able to tell you if any got into OOTP 5 yet...

The problem is that you cannot please everybody, but for whatever reason I try

The game is so big (about 500,000 lines of code) and complex right now, that it is difficult to not forget the obvious things sometime. I.e. the PH charts in the depth charts have been gone in V3 and V4, only because I forgot them to put in since recoding the screen in V3. Shit happens

IMO OOTP 5 needs some more work in the in-game AI (I am working on it at the moment), but we're getting there. But, like we say in Germany, I have seen horses throw up in front of a drugstore in other, supposedly more realistic games... no game will ever be perfect.

Just my .2

BishopMVP · 02-10-2003, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Markus Heinsohn
But, like we say in Germany, I have seen horses throw up in front of a drugstore in other, supposedly more realistic games...

Is that really a German saying?

Ksyrup · 02-10-2003, 12:35 PM

If I had a dollar for every game that used the ole' "horse throwing up in front of a drugstore" gag...

Senator · 02-10-2003, 12:47 PM

Being German has nothing to do with the game. If someone is capable of challenging the OOTP standard, then do it, otherwise stop bringing up this "we are Americans so we know baseball" mentality. That is same thing Americans get from the world regarding soccer, and I think it is very silly. A nation does not OWN a sport.
Markus is a very good programmer who has made a game thas has given me hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Let's leave out the other BS.

Daimyo · 02-10-2003, 12:47 PM

Skydog, can you PLEASE ask for individual player steal tendency settings and individual pitcher hook settings?

Maple Leafs · 02-10-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
Skydog, can you PLEASE ask for individual player steal tendency settings and individual pitcher hook settings?

And could you go and bump the intentional walk thread? And the "set as default for all depth charts/lineups" suggestion that some good looking guy made? Thanks.

FBPro · 02-10-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
Skydog, can you PLEASE ask for individual player steal tendency settings and individual pitcher hook settings?

During the chat yesterday this was announced as being part of v5.

FBPro · 02-10-2003, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Senator
Being German has nothing to do with the game. If someone is capable of challenging the OOTP standard, then do it, otherwise stop bringing up this "we are Americans so we know baseball" mentality. That is same thing Americans get from the world regarding soccer, and I think it is very silly. A nation does not OWN a sport.
Markus is a very good programmer who has made a game thas has given me hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Let's leave out the other BS.

AMEN!!

ice4277 · 02-10-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Senator
Being German has nothing to do with the game. If someone is capable of challenging the OOTP standard, then do it, otherwise stop bringing up this "we are Americans so we know baseball" mentality. That is same thing Americans get from the world regarding soccer, and I think it is very silly. A nation does not OWN a sport.
Markus is a very good programmer who has made a game thas has given me hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Let's leave out the other BS.

I agree. OOTP has been the second-most enjoyable text sim I've ever played, and not once did I think "Wow, this would be so much better if the designer was from Boston or Cleveland." Think how many crap baseball games have been designed by Americans, for that matter.

FBPro · 02-10-2003, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ice4277
I agree. OOTP has been the second-most enjoyable text sim I've ever played, and not once did I think "Wow, this would be so much better if the designer was from Boston or Cleveland." Think how many crap baseball games have been designed by Americans, for that matter.

Good point, hehe crap baseball games...gee should we name them?

Ksyrup · 02-10-2003, 02:22 PM

I don't think that this is so much an American vs. [pick your country] issue, as much as it is (at least potentially) a "coming to baseball late in life" issue. Being from Germany just served as the reason why Marcus most likely wasn't exposed to baseball at as young an age as a number of Americans were. That's the only connection to native country here.

It's got nothing to do with the fact that an American can program a baseball game better than a non-American, but rather, the fact that coming from a country in which baseball is given almost no coverage lessens the chance that anybody from that country would have as good a grasp on the game as a fan from America would at any given age. Look at soccer. There's no reason why an American can't create a CM-quality soccer game, but the relative importance of soccer to the people of the US vs. UK lessens the chance of that happening here.

As for OOTP, I think most of the "foreigner" comments are directed at the scouting descriptions. Honestly, at this point, given the apparent improvements to OOTP, that may be one of the weakest parts of the game. It's not a huge deal, but for the "immersion" factor, having scouting reports that read like someone who's been in baseball for 50 years vs. what they read like now, would help a great deal.

korme · 02-10-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maple Leafs
And could you go and bump the intentional walk thread? And the "set as default for all depth charts/lineups" suggestion that some good looking guy made? Thanks.

No no, actually, I believe it was you who suggested that.

02-09-2003, 07:32 PM	#4
Bonegavel Awaiting Further Instructions... Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Macungie, PA	Too bad this sort of thing doesn't happen with Front Office Football. SkyDog, you apparently know more about baseball than the guy programming a game about the sport. I am still blown away by your rotation thing and the fact that this wasn't included until you mentioned it (for the second time, if IIRC). __________________

02-09-2003, 08:46 PM	#7
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Maybe you should suggest inflation, SkyDog. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

02-10-2003, 12:35 PM	#13
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	If I had a dollar for every game that used the ole' "horse throwing up in front of a drugstore" gag... __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

02-10-2003, 12:47 PM	#14
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	Being German has nothing to do with the game. If someone is capable of challenging the OOTP standard, then do it, otherwise stop bringing up this "we are Americans so we know baseball" mentality. That is same thing Americans get from the world regarding soccer, and I think it is very silly. A nation does not OWN a sport. Markus is a very good programmer who has made a game thas has given me hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Let's leave out the other BS. __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

02-10-2003, 02:22 PM	#21
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I don't think that this is so much an American vs. [pick your country] issue, as much as it is (at least potentially) a "coming to baseball late in life" issue. Being from Germany just served as the reason why Marcus most likely wasn't exposed to baseball at as young an age as a number of Americans were. That's the only connection to native country here. It's got nothing to do with the fact that an American can program a baseball game better than a non-American, but rather, the fact that coming from a country in which baseball is given almost no coverage lessens the chance that anybody from that country would have as good a grasp on the game as a fan from America would at any given age. Look at soccer. There's no reason why an American can't create a CM-quality soccer game, but the relative importance of soccer to the people of the US vs. UK lessens the chance of that happening here. As for OOTP, I think most of the "foreigner" comments are directed at the scouting descriptions. Honestly, at this point, given the apparent improvements to OOTP, that may be one of the weakest parts of the game. It's not a huge deal, but for the "immersion" factor, having scouting reports that read like someone who's been in baseball for 50 years vs. what they read like now, would help a great deal. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

02-09-2003, 06:46 PM	#2
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	From now on, we will go through you when we have ootp ideas! Skydog or Luckydog? Todd

02-09-2003, 06:56 PM	#3
Anrhydeddu Resident Curmudgeon Join Date: Oct 2002	What's disappointing is that you actually use the DH lineups.

02-09-2003, 07:47 PM	#5
Blackadar Retired Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fantasyland	Good idea, SkyDog.

02-09-2003, 08:39 PM	#6
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	It's great we hear feedback right away from Markus on isses people bring up. That's rare nowdays. Todd

02-09-2003, 10:33 PM	#10
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	I still think Sky Dog has photos of Markus dressed as Captain Stubing next to him as Issac the Bartender in his dress whites. I'm not trying to be an OOTP basher, just a realist -- the programmer for OOTP is a German who didn't start following the game until later in life -- and it shows. There are a lot of "common sense" things that just aren't in OOTP that get overlook with the eye-candy and the depth. Despite that, OOTP is right now the premiere baseball sim in the business -- which to me means that if you took a great programmer who ate, slept and crapped baseball, you could blow OOTP out of the water. Shaun Sullivan seems like he's that kind of guy. I'm going to be interested in how PureSim turns out.

02-10-2003, 12:47 PM	#15
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	Skydog, can you PLEASE ask for individual player steal tendency settings and individual pitcher hook settings?

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