marijuana- should it legal????

tucker342 · 02-06-2003, 10:54 PM

What's everyones opinion on the subject

Easy Mac · 02-06-2003, 10:56 PM

you mean i've been breaking the law?

sweet! Dude! sweet! Dude!

bbor · 02-06-2003, 11:01 PM

Only if they tax it....so long debt

Barkeep49 · 02-06-2003, 11:04 PM

A gateway drug despite the rhetoric otherwise but the cost of enforcement is just too high.

Draft Dodger · 02-06-2003, 11:08 PM

I do not think it should be legal

thesurreallife · 02-06-2003, 11:17 PM

Only if I'm arrested

astralhaze · 02-06-2003, 11:44 PM

Seems to be working in Holland. And it sure works for me....

McSweeny · 02-06-2003, 11:48 PM

you mean it's not legal? sure seems like it

vex · 02-07-2003, 12:16 AM

I agree, it might as well be legal. However, I voted no.

Lathum · 02-07-2003, 12:28 AM

Why not police it like tobacco and alcohol?

JeeberD · 02-07-2003, 12:32 AM

I'm on the border here. I've had several friends start smoking and then start doing badly at school, stop going to work, etc. But then again, the same thing can happen with alcohol. I guess I wouldn't be upset if it was legalized. That would create a lot of money for the govt that could be used for other things. But I really don't have any use for the stuff. All the buzz I need comes from a sixer of Shiner Bock.

dawgfan · 02-07-2003, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Barkeep49
A gateway drug despite the rhetoric otherwise but the cost of enforcement is just too high.

There are no credible studies showing use of marijuana causes users to try harder drugs. Think about it - a significant portion of the U.S. population has tried marijuana, while a very small percentage uses cocaine, heroin, etc.

Proponents of the "gateway" theory like to point out that most people that have used "hard" drugs started using marijuana first. All that shows is a correlation, not causation. The far more relevant stat is how many users of marijuana also use hard drugs, and the answer there is a very small percentage - some studies show as little as less than 1%. This hardly seems to be evidence of marijuana acting as a "gateway".

What is actually happening here is that those people that are prone to using and abusing hard drugs are very likely going to start their illicit drug use with the most common and easiest to locate drug, which is marijuana. Once they reach a comfort level with acquiring and using an illegal drug, they then move on the the harder stuff that intrigues them.

For most users of marijuana, harder drugs don't hold any appeal and they either continue using only marijuana or quit altogether.

I'm not a huge fan of marijuana - it just tends to make me sleepy and out of it, and I generally prefer beer or wine. There are occasions where it's nice, like if you really want to focus on a cool piece of music you like and you want to get lost in it, but for the most part I pass. That said, I don't see much difference in impact between it and alcohol, and I don't see where the health risks are any worse than with tobacco. I find it odd the distinctions this country makes between acceptable drugs and unacceptable, and think we'd save a lot of money in jail time, enforcement and prosecution by just legalizing marijuana, not to mention the potential boon of tax money the sale of it would generate. Make it subject to a large sin tax like alcohol and tobacco, earmark a certain percentage for drug education and for rehab, and quit overcrowding our prisions and court systems with dope dealers.

What is criminally ridiculous is this country's prohibition on growing hemp. It's perhaps the most versatile and useful plant in nature, and yet because it's related to cannibis no one is allowed to grow it in this country. Never mind that the THC content in hemp is so low that you'd get sick smoking it before you ever got high. What a tremendous job the pulp and paper industry and chemical industry lobbyists have done in keeping this growing ban in place.

dawgfan · 02-07-2003, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JeeberD
I'm on the border here. I've had several friends start smoking and then start doing badly at school, stop going to work, etc. But then again, the same thing can happen with alcohol. I guess I wouldn't be upset if it was legalized. That would create a lot of money for the govt that could be used for other things. But I really don't have any use for the stuff. All the buzz I need comes from a sixer of Shiner Bock.

Dola, just to counter your example I have a number of friends that are very successful professionals that also are semi-regular users of marijuana and have been for years - both successful professionals or students and regular marijuana users. Whether a person becomes a lazy, aimless stoner when using marijuana has far more to do with their personality and situation than any effects from the drug itself.

Barkeep49 · 02-07-2003, 01:59 AM

Dawg I would refer you to the study recently published in the Journal of the American Medical Assocation that starts to paint a firmer picture about the idea of it as a gateway drug.

Read about it here

Alf · 02-07-2003, 02:06 AM

marijuana and Easy Rider : a must !

dawgfan · 02-07-2003, 02:07 AM

Did you read the article yourself? There's nothing in there that shows causation, simply more evidence of corellation. The researcher quoted in the article admits as much:

Quote:

"It is often implicitly assumed that using cannabis changes your brain or makes you crave other drugs," said lead researcher Michael Lynskey, "but there are a number of other potential mechanisms, including access to drugs, willingness to break the law and likelihood of engaging in risk-taking behavior."

Lynskey and colleagues acknowledged the study has several limitations, including relying on participants' reporting of their own experiences.

In an accompanying editorial, Denise Kandel of Columbia University's psychiatry department said the study does not explain "whether or not a true causal link exists" between marijuana and hard drugs.

"An argument can be made that even identical twins do not share the same environment during adolescence," she said.

I reiterate - there are no credible studies showing use of marijuana causes users to move on to harder drugs.

Since you seem to believe that marijuana is a "gateway" drug, then explain to me why so very few people who use marijuana go on to use harder drugs.

dawgfan · 02-07-2003, 02:12 AM

Dola - this article is a fantasic example of how the media commonly distorts scientific studies and paints false or misleading impressions of the results and what they signify.

By reading the headline and the lead paragraph, you'd think this study had shown definite proof that marijuana use causes users to move on to harder drugs. Yet, if you read the whole article you realize that no such conclusion can be drawn from the study, and the researcher quoted in fact mentions many other possibilities of what the causes of the findings might be.

Very poor journalism on the part of CNN.

ACStrider · 02-07-2003, 02:27 AM

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone mind you...just would like to know...I'm against legalizing marijuana. I've heard arguments from both sides and I think that both make legitimate points. There is one factor that I want considered before I will consider thier opinion valid. For the person for legalizing marijuana, have you ever used marijuana? If the answer is "yes", I think the argument is tainted. If the answer is "no", I'm willing to listen. Anyone willing to sound off? I'd like to hear.

cthomer5000 · 02-07-2003, 05:04 AM

Can anyone make a convincing argument that alocohol should remain legal, but pot stay illegal?

Ben E Lou · 02-07-2003, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ACStrider
I'm not pointing fingers at anyone mind you...just would like to know...I'm against legalizing marijuana. I've heard arguments from both sides and I think that both make legitimate points. There is one factor that I want considered before I will consider thier opinion valid. For the person for legalizing marijuana, have you ever used marijuana? If the answer is "yes", I think the argument is tainted. If the answer is "no", I'm willing to listen. Anyone willing to sound off? I'd like to hear.

Strider:

I'm close. I've never used the stuff, and doubt I ever would if it were legal, but I am close to the point of believing that legalizing all drugs would be the best thing for our society. I already firmly believe that doing so would be more consistent with the principles of liberty than our current laws are. The only thing that holds me back from thinking it is the best thing for society is the "trickle-down" effect on our nation's young people. What I mean by that is that cerrtainly there would be an "age of legality" for drugs. However, between fake ID's and adults who are willing to provide, drugs would flow easily to the young, who are clearly not ready to make those sort of decisions with wisdom. I also still wrestle with is the "coming out" effect that would happen immediately after legalization--meaning the initial celebration-with-reckless-abandon that would surely happen. I think we'd see a short-term spiking of drug use/abuse, and then a settling in (and of course a drastic reduction in crime). My concern is for those caught up in the short-term spiking. It is early, so I'm not sure all of that was 100% lucid, but there it is.

--Ben

Fritz · 02-07-2003, 05:23 AM

you will be able to find a post almost exactly like this anytime this subject comes up anywhere.

Quote:

Originally posted by dawgfan
There are no credible studies showing use of marijuana causes users to try harder drugs. Think about it - a significant portion of the U.S. population has tried marijuana, while a very small percentage uses cocaine, heroin, etc.

Proponents of the "gateway" theory like to point out that most people that have used "hard" drugs started using marijuana first. All that shows is a correlation, not causation. The far more relevant stat is how many users of marijuana also use hard drugs, and the answer there is a very small percentage - some studies show as little as less than 1%. This hardly seems to be evidence of marijuana acting as a "gateway".

What is actually happening here is that those people that are prone to using and abusing hard drugs are very likely going to start their illicit drug use with the most common and easiest to locate drug, which is marijuana. Once they reach a comfort level with acquiring and using an illegal drug, they then move on the the harder stuff that intrigues them.

For most users of marijuana, harder drugs don't hold any appeal and they either continue using only marijuana or quit altogether.

I'm not a huge fan of marijuana - it just tends to make me sleepy and out of it, and I generally prefer beer or wine. There are occasions where it's nice, like if you really want to focus on a cool piece of music you like and you want to get lost in it, but for the most part I pass. That said, I don't see much difference in impact between it and alcohol, and I don't see where the health risks are any worse than with tobacco. I find it odd the distinctions this country makes between acceptable drugs and unacceptable, and think we'd save a lot of money in jail time, enforcement and prosecution by just legalizing marijuana, not to mention the potential boon of tax money the sale of it would generate. Make it subject to a large sin tax like alcohol and tobacco, earmark a certain percentage for drug education and for rehab, and quit overcrowding our prisions and court systems with dope dealers.

What is criminally ridiculous is this country's prohibition on growing hemp. It's perhaps the most versatile and useful plant in nature, and yet because it's related to cannibis no one is allowed to grow it in this country. Never mind that the THC content in hemp is so low that you'd get sick smoking it before you ever got high. What a tremendous job the pulp and paper industry and chemical industry lobbyists have done in keeping this growing ban in place.

ACStrider · 02-07-2003, 05:42 AM

Skydog--

Thanks for the input...yeah that's actually a reason I've been mulling over. I think before I can seriously consider the possibility of legalizing marijuana, I need to, ironically, hear opposition from those who are against smoking cigarettes. The amount of toxins in marijuana is drastically higher then that which is in tobacco and cigarettes, but it seems that the greatest proponents for marijuana legalization are from those who oppose tobacco corporations. It just seems hypocritical to me. If that hurdle gets crossed, I could legitimately consider pot legalization.

Fritz --

Your parallel to alcohol is humerous but legitimate in its own right. It does seem like a double standard to be against marijuana because of the intoxicating effects but still be for alcohol being legal. Good point.

Braggadocioussss · 02-07-2003, 06:24 AM

All of you people wanting it to be legal wouldn't think so highly about it after some stoned-out-of-his-mind pothead slams into your 8 year old son with his car. Oh, but it's not a gateway drug, so we should legalize it. I can see that logic. Gimme a fucking break.

Pot affects people 50 times worse than alocohol. If you say any differently you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Either that or you are completely blinded by your addiction.

Bee · 02-07-2003, 06:27 AM

I say legalize it and treat it like alcohol. I don't use it and I wouldn't if it were legal.

ACStrider · 02-07-2003, 06:55 AM

Like I said, I'm against legalizing it. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not completely informed on the issue (particularly the effects in comparison to other substances). My postion right now would be to recognize it as having narcotic effects and limiting it for medicinal purposes for terminally ill people. My biggest reluctance for completely legalizing it is for issues that SkyDog listed. It seems that it may also be even more problematic once you open the door. You think it is difficult to handle marijuana useage now, imagine trying to limit it to people only over a certain age. I guess when you start talking along these lines, incidents that Bragg brings up tend to fade into the background rather easily. I've never used marijuana, never plan on using it, and until I'm convinced otherwise, I'll be against any measure that proposes legalizing it.

Fritz · 02-07-2003, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ACStrider

Fritz --

Your parallel to alcohol is humerous but legitimate in its own right. It does seem like a double standard to be against marijuana because of the intoxicating effects but still be for alcohol being legal. Good point.

Huh? I didn't post anything like that.

ACStrider · 02-07-2003, 07:20 AM

Oops...my bad Fritz...I was scrolling up and remembered that someone made that parallel.

It's CTHomer500 that I was refering to.

Fritz · 02-07-2003, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Can anyone make a convincing argument that alocohol should remain legal, but pot stay illegal?

Have you ever had a pot and tonic? The little leaves all float at the top and get stuck between your teeth.

Bee · 02-07-2003, 07:32 AM

And don't forget about the munchies.

BFleming · 02-07-2003, 07:39 AM

Personally, I agree with whoever said legalize it, then tax the hell out of it...I still would never do it, nor have I ever used any form of tobbacco, but as long as the two are taxed similarly, the nation could stand to make a significant amount of profit...However, any mistakes, such as disproportionate pricing will lead to your average joe continuing to seek alternative outlets to buy his pot...it would certainly lead to the need for much more effort on the enforcement side, and would have to be done quite carefully, but I believe there is potential...now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to watching Half Baked...lol

GrantDawg · 02-07-2003, 07:57 AM

I say legalize it. It is not any worse than alcohol (and Brag, I can find 400,000 examples just like yours just by changing pothead to alcoholic. Alcohol has done more damage to lives than pot ever has), it is non-addictive and if you take the illegality out of the equation it would be no more a gateway drug than alcohol.

Ben E Lou · 02-07-2003, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrantDawg
I say legalize it. It is not any worse than alcohol (and Brag, I can find 400,000 examples just like yours just by changing pothead to alcoholic. Alcohol has done more damage to lives than pot ever has), it is non-addictive and if you take the illegality out of the equation it would be no more a gateway drug than alcohol.

Hehe...the two Southern Bible-thumpers seriously considering legalizing pot. They'd try to run Grantdawg and me right out of our jobs if they only knew.

Fritz · 02-07-2003, 08:15 AM

I am very near to Skydog on this issue. However, socialist programs like govt. funding for healthcare are incompatible with liberty.

If you set aside the paternal aspect of controlled substance legislation there is still the taxpayer burden associated with health (and other) effects. For this reason I am receptive to making tobacco a controlled substance.

Here are my concerns with legalization of marijuana:

People wrongly equate "legal" with OK, healthy, moral, ethical, and the like. Legalizing pot would be seen as an endorsement from the govt. I worry that any restriction of its use would be challenged as an affront to freedom.

It has become damn near impossible for parents to lay down "family rules" that exceed the law. I am concerned for the youth who would not use it that might once legalized.

GrantDawg · 02-07-2003, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
Hehe...the two Southern Bible-thumpers seriously considering legalizing pot. They'd try to run Grantdawg and me right out of our jobs if they only knew.

No kidding. I was thinking the same thing. I think you and I agree on a more libertarian approach to government though. This is one issue that I think more freedom might do less damage than the restriction.

Draft Dodger · 02-07-2003, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Can anyone make a convincing argument that alocohol should remain legal, but pot stay illegal?

I don't think I can. But I CAN say that if alcohol had been illegal from day one, then we would be much better off.

cincyreds · 02-07-2003, 08:38 AM

The Afoci · 02-07-2003, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Can anyone make a convincing argument that alocohol should remain legal, but pot stay illegal?

All i can say is drinking makes me do much worse stuff and impares me far more(usually) than weed does. I smoke before i drink because of that mainly.

MizzouRah · 02-07-2003, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Can anyone make a convincing argument that alocohol should remain legal, but pot stay illegal?

Nope.

In fact, the government makes money off of pot everyday.

Quote:

All of you people wanting it to be legal wouldn't think so highly about it after some stoned-out-of-his-mind pothead slams into your 8 year old son with his car.

Alcohol has 10x the accidents, spousal abuse, addictions, road rage, etc... Arguments can be made anyday on both sides, but I say legalize it.

Todd

Airhog · 02-07-2003, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Braggadocioussss
All of you people wanting it to be legal wouldn't think so highly about it after some stoned-out-of-his-mind pothead slams into your 8 year old son with his car. Oh, but it's not a gateway drug, so we should legalize it. I can see that logic. Gimme a fucking break.

Pot affects people 50 times worse than alocohol. If you say any differently you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Either that or you are completely blinded by your addiction.

Do we allow people under the influence of alcohol do drive?

Honolulu Blue · 02-07-2003, 09:38 AM

Good points made in this thread, as usual.

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but part of the reason why marijuana is a "gateway" drug is because the "gatekeepers" are so, um, unscrupulous. Because you can't buy it at the corner store, you're forced to deal with people who are unsavory and often would be more than happy to sell more profitable, more addictive drugs.

I have little use for artificial happiness stimulators (this includes alcohol and caffiene, BTW), but I don't judge people who do. I generally feel that government should stay out of the business of telling people what they can and cannot do.

Airhog · 02-07-2003, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz

It has become damn near impossible for parents to lay down "family rules" that exceed the law. I am concerned for the youth who would not use it that might once legalized.

There are laws in place regarding Alcohol that prohibits the sale of it too minors, hence it is illegal for minors to drink. I think we can make the assumption that if it was legalized, things like driving under the Influence and sale to minors would not be legal

Airhog · 02-07-2003, 09:50 AM

People say how the government would make a killing off taxing pot sales. Probably so, but think about all those big businesses that would lose money.

1. Private corporations that own jails, prisons, drug boot camps, etc.

These people make a nice living off pot-heads and mandantory sentancing.

2. Companies that produce products that could be improved by making paper.

Could we grow enough hemp to provide paper for the paper industry? Probably not, but it would cut into sales. Hemp is a much more durable thread than cotton or any other type of thread. You make a shirt out of hemp, and you can hand it down to your grandkids to wear.

Then you would have to figure all of the companies that profit from the war on drugs. All those people would be against legalizing pot.

Even though there is overwhelming proof that hemp would be a benefit too our society. It is a great resource of biomass, and is better than any other crop. It's seeds contain oils and protein found in fish and could be used to feed poor countries.

It is really sad that cannabis was intially made illegal by Dupont and some large timber companies in the east. It shows that throughout the USA's history, big companies have the power to enfore their own will upon the people.

ShovelMonkey · 02-07-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Braggadocioussss
Pot affects people 50 times worse than alocohol. If you say any differently you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Either that or you are completely blinded by your addiction.

Fifty times worse than alchohol? You give me a break. If you have proof of this I'd like to see it.

I can function when I partake in a few left handed cigarettes. When I drink, however, I can't. I've paid the price for drinking and driving(I didn't get a DUI, but I did total my car and clip someone else. Not sure how I got away with it but I did learn my lesson.)

I've also driven stoned, and while this was also a result of my foolish youth and not something I'd recommend, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as driving drunk out of my mind.

I believe pot should be legal. As someone else said, if it was legal it would also be illegal to drive under it's influence. There would also be laws attempting to protect minors. I say attempting, because how many of us here have been guilty of underage drinking?

It should also be legal because the government simply does not have to right to tell us what is bad for us and what isn't. In my mind it's having the same effect that the prohibition had. That being none what so ever to stop usage, and a whole lot of crime being created.

ISiddiqui · 02-07-2003, 10:06 AM

YES,

but then again I'm a libertarian and believe ALL drugs should be legalized

.

Draft Dodger · 02-07-2003, 10:08 AM

to each his own, I guess.

I could never even do simple things like order a pizza stoned. I won't drive after more than 1 drink now, but in my youth I (allegedly) drove more than a few times drunk, and more than a few times stoned. I never had any business being behind the wheel on ANY of those occasions (allegedly) - I was too impaired with either booze or pot.

and I don't buy the tax thing - the illegal pot business isn't going to go just go away.

sabotai · 02-07-2003, 10:12 AM

I've been high. I've been drunk. And NO WAY is being high 50x worse than being drunk. And for the sound of it, Braggg, you haven't been high, so how can you tell us that we are the ones that don't know what we're talking about?

People who are drunk can barely even walk, let alone do anything else. I've yet to see someone high who could barely stand up. Yet I've seen plenty of people who were drunk who could barely stand.

Exactly how do you know that being high is being worse than being drunk?

And blinded by our addiction? Please. I'm willing to bet that most of the people on here, like me, haven't touched it in years.

Iceberg · 02-07-2003, 10:13 AM

Im 18, a senior in high school. I dont smoke weed but my friends who do say that as the law stands now it is much easier to aquire weed than alcohol. Also if legalized there wouldnt be so many kids dealing it. Kids dealing drugs usually only leads to more trouble.

Fritz · 02-07-2003, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Airhog
There are laws in place regarding Alcohol that prohibits the sale of it too minors, hence it is illegal for minors to drink. I think we can make the assumption that if it was legalized, things like driving under the Influence and sale to minors would not be legal

I think it is safe to say to many, perhaps most, Americans take the drinking laws seriously only to avoid penalty.

Many parents who have a favorable view of drinking do not have an unfavorable view of their underage child "having a sip" or "having a beer with dad."

Another thought: There is no second-hand effect with booze. Dad can have a beer and not get his 5 year old son drunk.

----------
Question: I know you can drink at a volume where the effects are negligible. Can you do this with pot?

sabotai · 02-07-2003, 10:27 AM

Fritz, yeah. There have been times where I've taken a few drags off a joint, and never really felt anything.

Ben E Lou · 02-07-2003, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
Question: I know you can drink at a volume where the effects are negligible. Can you do this with pot?

Interesting question there. The obvious difference would be the question: "why would you?" I've never been mind-altered to any degree whatsoever by alcohol, because I use it in serious moderation--a glass of wine with dinner from time-to-time. I can't imagine anyone using pot to a degree less than that which causes mind alteration. Why would you?

View Poll Results: Should marijuana be legalized
Yes	66	58.93%
No	40	35.71%
I'm to high to care	6	5.36%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

02-06-2003, 11:01 PM	#3
bbor Pro Starter Join Date: May 2001 Location: toronto	Only if they tax it....so long debt __________________ Pumpy Tudors Now that I've cracked and made that admission, I wonder if I'm only a couple of steps away from wanting to tongue-kiss Jaromir Jagr and give Bobby Clarke a blowjob.

02-06-2003, 11:08 PM	#5
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	I do not think it should be legal __________________ Mile High Hockey

02-06-2003, 11:44 PM	#7
astralhaze College Prospect Join Date: Dec 2002	Seems to be working in Holland. And it sure works for me.... __________________ I can understand Brutus at every meaning, but that parahraphy threw me for a loop.

02-07-2003, 12:32 AM	#11
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	I'm on the border here. I've had several friends start smoking and then start doing badly at school, stop going to work, etc. But then again, the same thing can happen with alcohol. I guess I wouldn't be upset if it was legalized. That would create a lot of money for the govt that could be used for other things. But I really don't have any use for the stuff. All the buzz I need comes from a sixer of Shiner Bock. __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

02-06-2003, 10:56 PM	#2
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	you mean i've been breaking the law? sweet! Dude! sweet! Dude!

02-06-2003, 11:04 PM	#4
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	A gateway drug despite the rhetoric otherwise but the cost of enforcement is just too high.

02-06-2003, 11:17 PM	#6
thesurreallife n00b Join Date: Feb 2003	Only if I'm arrested

02-06-2003, 11:48 PM	#8
McSweeny College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somerville, MA	you mean it's not legal? sure seems like it

02-07-2003, 12:16 AM	#9
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	I agree, it might as well be legal. However, I voted no.

02-07-2003, 12:28 AM	#10
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Why not police it like tobacco and alcohol?

02-07-2003, 01:59 AM	#14
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Dawg I would refer you to the study recently published in the Journal of the American Medical Assocation that starts to paint a firmer picture about the idea of it as a gateway drug. Read about it here Last edited by Barkeep49 : 02-07-2003 at 02:00 AM.

02-07-2003, 02:06 AM	#15
Alf Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Rennes, France	marijuana and Easy Rider : a must ! __________________ FOFL - GML - IHOF - FranceStats

02-07-2003, 02:12 AM	#17
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	Dola - this article is a fantasic example of how the media commonly distorts scientific studies and paints false or misleading impressions of the results and what they signify. By reading the headline and the lead paragraph, you'd think this study had shown definite proof that marijuana use causes users to move on to harder drugs. Yet, if you read the whole article you realize that no such conclusion can be drawn from the study, and the researcher quoted in fact mentions many other possibilities of what the causes of the findings might be. Very poor journalism on the part of CNN.

02-07-2003, 02:27 AM	#18
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	I'm not pointing fingers at anyone mind you...just would like to know...I'm against legalizing marijuana. I've heard arguments from both sides and I think that both make legitimate points. There is one factor that I want considered before I will consider thier opinion valid. For the person for legalizing marijuana, have you ever used marijuana? If the answer is "yes", I think the argument is tainted. If the answer is "no", I'm willing to listen. Anyone willing to sound off? I'd like to hear. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

02-07-2003, 05:42 AM	#22
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	Skydog-- Thanks for the input...yeah that's actually a reason I've been mulling over. I think before I can seriously consider the possibility of legalizing marijuana, I need to, ironically, hear opposition from those who are against smoking cigarettes. The amount of toxins in marijuana is drastically higher then that which is in tobacco and cigarettes, but it seems that the greatest proponents for marijuana legalization are from those who oppose tobacco corporations. It just seems hypocritical to me. If that hurdle gets crossed, I could legitimately consider pot legalization. Fritz -- Your parallel to alcohol is humerous but legitimate in its own right. It does seem like a double standard to be against marijuana because of the intoxicating effects but still be for alcohol being legal. Good point. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

02-07-2003, 06:24 AM	#23
Braggadocioussss In The Penalty Box Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ	All of you people wanting it to be legal wouldn't think so highly about it after some stoned-out-of-his-mind pothead slams into your 8 year old son with his car. Oh, but it's not a gateway drug, so we should legalize it. I can see that logic. Gimme a fucking break. Pot affects people 50 times worse than alocohol. If you say any differently you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Either that or you are completely blinded by your addiction.

02-07-2003, 06:27 AM	#24
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I say legalize it and treat it like alcohol. I don't use it and I wouldn't if it were legal.

02-07-2003, 06:55 AM	#25
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	Like I said, I'm against legalizing it. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not completely informed on the issue (particularly the effects in comparison to other substances). My postion right now would be to recognize it as having narcotic effects and limiting it for medicinal purposes for terminally ill people. My biggest reluctance for completely legalizing it is for issues that SkyDog listed. It seems that it may also be even more problematic once you open the door. You think it is difficult to handle marijuana useage now, imagine trying to limit it to people only over a certain age. I guess when you start talking along these lines, incidents that Bragg brings up tend to fade into the background rather easily. I've never used marijuana, never plan on using it, and until I'm convinced otherwise, I'll be against any measure that proposes legalizing it. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

02-07-2003, 07:20 AM	#27
ACStrider High School JV Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Austin, TX	Oops...my bad Fritz...I was scrolling up and remembered that someone made that parallel. It's CTHomer500 that I was refering to. __________________ "I'm evil." "Oh you are not!" "Oh I am too." -- Brak

02-07-2003, 07:32 AM	#29
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	And don't forget about the munchies.

02-07-2003, 07:39 AM	#30
BFleming H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jersey	Personally, I agree with whoever said legalize it, then tax the hell out of it...I still would never do it, nor have I ever used any form of tobbacco, but as long as the two are taxed similarly, the nation could stand to make a significant amount of profit...However, any mistakes, such as disproportionate pricing will lead to your average joe continuing to seek alternative outlets to buy his pot...it would certainly lead to the need for much more effort on the enforcement side, and would have to be done quite carefully, but I believe there is potential...now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to watching Half Baked...lol

02-07-2003, 07:57 AM	#31
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	I say legalize it. It is not any worse than alcohol (and Brag, I can find 400,000 examples just like yours just by changing pothead to alcoholic. Alcohol has done more damage to lives than pot ever has), it is non-addictive and if you take the illegality out of the equation it would be no more a gateway drug than alcohol.

02-07-2003, 08:15 AM	#33
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I am very near to Skydog on this issue. However, socialist programs like govt. funding for healthcare are incompatible with liberty. If you set aside the paternal aspect of controlled substance legislation there is still the taxpayer burden associated with health (and other) effects. For this reason I am receptive to making tobacco a controlled substance. Here are my concerns with legalization of marijuana: People wrongly equate "legal" with OK, healthy, moral, ethical, and the like. Legalizing pot would be seen as an endorsement from the govt. I worry that any restriction of its use would be challenged as an affront to freedom. It has become damn near impossible for parents to lay down "family rules" that exceed the law. I am concerned for the youth who would not use it that might once legalized. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster Last edited by Fritz : 02-07-2003 at 08:17 AM.

02-07-2003, 08:38 AM	#36
cincyreds High School Varsity Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mississippi	No! __________________ The Dallas Cowboys!! America's Team will rise again.

02-07-2003, 09:38 AM	#40
Honolulu Blue Dynasty Boy Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Michigan	Good points made in this thread, as usual. Not sure if it's been mentioned, but part of the reason why marijuana is a "gateway" drug is because the "gatekeepers" are so, um, unscrupulous. Because you can't buy it at the corner store, you're forced to deal with people who are unsavory and often would be more than happy to sell more profitable, more addictive drugs. I have little use for artificial happiness stimulators (this includes alcohol and caffiene, BTW), but I don't judge people who do. I generally feel that government should stay out of the business of telling people what they can and cannot do.

02-07-2003, 09:50 AM	#42
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	People say how the government would make a killing off taxing pot sales. Probably so, but think about all those big businesses that would lose money. 1. Private corporations that own jails, prisons, drug boot camps, etc. These people make a nice living off pot-heads and mandantory sentancing. 2. Companies that produce products that could be improved by making paper. Could we grow enough hemp to provide paper for the paper industry? Probably not, but it would cut into sales. Hemp is a much more durable thread than cotton or any other type of thread. You make a shirt out of hemp, and you can hand it down to your grandkids to wear. Then you would have to figure all of the companies that profit from the war on drugs. All those people would be against legalizing pot. Even though there is overwhelming proof that hemp would be a benefit too our society. It is a great resource of biomass, and is better than any other crop. It's seeds contain oils and protein found in fish and could be used to feed poor countries. It is really sad that cannabis was intially made illegal by Dupont and some large timber companies in the east. It shows that throughout the USA's history, big companies have the power to enfore their own will upon the people. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

02-07-2003, 10:06 AM	#44
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	YES, but then again I'm a libertarian and believe ALL drugs should be legalized . __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

02-07-2003, 10:08 AM	#45
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	to each his own, I guess. I could never even do simple things like order a pizza stoned. I won't drive after more than 1 drink now, but in my youth I (allegedly) drove more than a few times drunk, and more than a few times stoned. I never had any business being behind the wheel on ANY of those occasions (allegedly) - I was too impaired with either booze or pot. and I don't buy the tax thing - the illegal pot business isn't going to go just go away. __________________ Mile High Hockey

02-07-2003, 10:12 AM	#46
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	I've been high. I've been drunk. And NO WAY is being high 50x worse than being drunk. And for the sound of it, Braggg, you haven't been high, so how can you tell us that we are the ones that don't know what we're talking about? People who are drunk can barely even walk, let alone do anything else. I've yet to see someone high who could barely stand up. Yet I've seen plenty of people who were drunk who could barely stand. Exactly how do you know that being high is being worse than being drunk? And blinded by our addiction? Please. I'm willing to bet that most of the people on here, like me, haven't touched it in years.

02-07-2003, 10:13 AM	#47
Iceberg H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kensington, MD	Im 18, a senior in high school. I dont smoke weed but my friends who do say that as the law stands now it is much easier to aquire weed than alcohol. Also if legalized there wouldnt be so many kids dealing it. Kids dealing drugs usually only leads to more trouble.

02-07-2003, 10:27 AM	#49
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Fritz, yeah. There have been times where I've taken a few drags off a joint, and never really felt anything.

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