Invisibility possible in future?

[Riggins44]

hxxp://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060731/sc_nm/science_invisible_dc

LONDON (Reuters) - It's unlikely to occur by swallowing a pill or donning a special cloak, but invisibility could be possible in the not too distant future, according to research published on Monday.
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Harry Potter accomplished it with his magic cloak. H.G. Wells' Invisible Man swallowed a substance that made him transparent.

But Dr Ulf Leonhardt, a theoretical physicist at St Andrews University in Scotland, believes the most plausible example is the Invisible Woman, one of the Marvel Comics superheroes in the "Fantastic Four."

"She guides light around her using a force field in this cartoon. This is what could be done in practice," Leonhardt told Reuters in an interview. "That comes closest to what engineers will probably be able to do in the future."

Invisibility is an optical illusion that the object or person is not there. Leonhardt uses the example of water circling around a stone. The water flows in, swirls around the stone and then leaves as if nothing was there.

"If you replace the water with light then you would not see that there was something present because the light is guided around the person or object. You would see the light coming from the scenery behind as if there was nothing in front," he said.

In the research published in the New Journal of Physics, Leonhardt described the physics of theoretical devices that could create invisibility. It is a follow-up paper to an earlier study published in the journal Science.

"What the Invisible Woman does is curve space around herself to bend light. What these devices would do is to mimic that curved space," he said.

Although the devices are still theoretical, Leonhardt said scientists are making advances in metamaterials -- artificial materials with unusual properties that could be used to make invisibility devices.

"There are advances being made in metamaterials that mean the first devices will probably be used for bending radar waves or the electromagnetic waves used by mobile phones," he said.

The devices could be used as protection mechanisms so the radiation emitted from mobile phones does not penetrate electronic equipment. It is guided around it.

"It is very likely that the demonstration for radar would come first and very soon. To go into the visual will take some time but it is also not so far off," Leonhardt said.

If this ever happens it's going to create over crowding in women's bathrooms.

[Fonzie]

The Klingons and Romulans are way ahead of us here.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Riggins44

hxxp://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060731/sc_nm/science_invisible_dc



If this ever happens it's going to create over crowding in women's bathrooms.

No it won't. It's practically guaranteed that the government of whichever country in which such a device is invented and perfected would seize it on national security grounds.

[Riggins44]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

No it won't. It's practically guaranteed that the government of whichever country in which such a device is invented and perfected would seize it on national security grounds.

Yes, and the offices of said government will have an over crowding issue in their women's bathrooms.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

No it won't. It's practically guaranteed that the government of whichever country in which such a device is invented and perfected would seize it on national security grounds.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to discover that this has already happened.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It wouldn't surprise me at all to discover that this has already happened.

I'm very paranoid with stuff like this... I just think there's quite a bit of technology already out there in various governments/powers that isn't released publicly yet.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I'm very paranoid with stuff like this... I just think there's quite a bit of technology already out there in various governments/powers that isn't released publicly yet.

Maybe. But I don't think so, at least not for something with so much possible "popular imagination" appeal. If it's a question of the gov't seizing something on national security grounds, they have to find out about it somehow... which means others can just as well/easily, and there'd be something out there, news story, etc. If it's the gov't developing it... well, I just don't see top-level R&D guys getting paid enough to work for the gov't as opposed to commercially.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It wouldn't surprise me at all to discover that this has already happened.

Hey, cool, I found your picture online

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hey, cool, I found your picture online

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It wouldn't surprise me at all to discover that this has already happened.

This? I doubt strongly. Something along the lines? Definitely. It's based on the fabrics you wear and how they reflect light, so they've already got some rudimentary attempts at it in the field already. It's just stealth technology for people instead of planes. Much, much, much more difficult stealth technology at the upper end, but just more complex camouflage at the low end.

I highly doubt we'll get close to the point where someone can be completely "invisible" any time soon, especially in a battlefield situation where different optical things - like at the low-end heat sensors - could neutralize most of the effect. But we're undoubtedly somewhere along that continuum.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

This? I doubt strongly. Something along the lines? Definitely. It's based on the fabrics you wear and how they reflect light, so they've already got some rudimentary attempts at it in the field already. It's just stealth technology for people instead of planes. Much, much, much more difficult stealth technology at the upper end, but just more complex camouflage at the low end.

I highly doubt we'll get close to the point where someone can be completely "invisible" any time soon, especially in a battlefield situation where different optical things - like at the low-end heat sensors - could neutralize most of the effect. But we're undoubtedly somewhere along that continuum.

That's exactly my thought. "Stealth" technology is only called stealth because taxpayers would be outraged if they were funding something called "invisibility" technology.

[Glengoyne]

I saw a program on weapon systems in development, and there was a "shield" that was mobile, and used fibre optics to essentially display the environment behind the shield to those in front of it. It wasn't perfect, especially when they moved it, but people could operate behind it without being evident. It worked far better than I expected it to.

I think it's much closer to practical use by law enforcement than the millitary, but they were working on a suit as well.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I think it's much closer to practical use by law enforcement than the millitary, but they were working on a suit as well.

The predator is eager to see if these babies are water-proof.

[like a dog]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I'm very paranoid with stuff like this... I just think there's quite a bit of technology already out there in various governments/powers that isn't released publicly yet.

This sort of paranoia is completely irrational. The world's most brilliant scientists do not work for national governments. Most all of them work for academic and/or private research institutions and are part of a very public (if technical) discourse about the fronteirs of their fields. If an invisibility technology existed, Weinberg and Witten would know the physics that made it possible. In fact, the recent history of science has shown that the development of future technologies by national governments is usually precipitated by a suggestion from a published scientist and even then the actual development must be carried out by leading research scientists and not military contractors. For example, think of the development of nuclear fission bomb. Einstein relunctantly first suggested the possibility to FDR, correctly surmising that a German physicist (Werner Heisenberg of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle) would think of a fission bomb. To develop the bomb, FDR had to gather America's most brilliant physicists (Oppenheimer, Von Neuman, Feynman); there were no "secret" military physicists who could understand and harness nuclear fission.

[KevinNU7]

I remember seeing a show about military camoflauge that involved light bending. It was not perfected for movement but if the person was still it worked very well.

This was on last summer so who knows what they have now.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

This? I doubt strongly. Something along the lines? Definitely. It's based on the fabrics you wear and how they reflect light, so they've already got some rudimentary attempts at it in the field already. It's just stealth technology for people instead of planes. Much, much, much more difficult stealth technology at the upper end, but just more complex camouflage at the low end.

I highly doubt we'll get close to the point where someone can be completely "invisible" any time soon, especially in a battlefield situation where different optical things - like at the low-end heat sensors - could neutralize most of the effect. But we're undoubtedly somewhere along that continuum.

Slightly off-tangent but I saw a cool show a year or so ago where the 'challenge' was to make something (it was a car or tank or something similar) dissappear in woodland, they used mirrors mounted upon it to mask it and when it was stationary it worked fantastically well ...

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by like a dog

This sort of paranoia is completely irrational. The world's most brilliant scientists do not work for national governments. Most all of them work for academic and/or private research institutions and are part of a very public (if technical) discourse about the fronteirs of their fields. If an invisibility technology existed, Weinberg and Witten would know the physics that made it possible. In fact, the recent history of science has shown that the development of future technologies by national governments is usually precipitated by a suggestion from a published scientist and even then the actual development must be carried out by leading research scientists and not military contractors. For example, think of the development of nuclear fission bomb. Einstein relunctantly first suggested the possibility to FDR, correctly surmising that a German physicist (Werner Heisenberg of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle) would think of a fission bomb. To develop the bomb, FDR had to gather America's most brilliant physicists (Oppenheimer, Von Neuman, Feynman); there were no "secret" military physicists who could understand and harness nuclear fission.

That's an interesting point. Generally speaking, genius' of any type don't tend to enjoy government work. But in that example, the public had no idea what was going on for years until we actually used the technology.

[MikeVic]

Maybe the government cloned a bunch of the smartest people needed for something like this, and they do R&D in a building that uses the invisibility technology for stationary objects.

[rkmsuf]

Can you do it when you are invisible?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Can you do it when you are invisible?

In short, I'd think so.

I think you'd have to create some sort of invisible latex condom... or if not a condom, some sort of material that a man/woman would want inside of them. Otherwise, there would be a floating member that isn't exposed to the invisibility technology....

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

In short, I'd think so.

I think you'd have to create some sort of invisible latex condom... or if not a condom, some sort of material that a man/woman would want inside of them. Otherwise, there would be a floating member that isn't exposed to the invisibility technology....

why can't my condom covered weiner be invisible? you mean I have to walk around invis-naked?

there goes any hope of december northeast football shenanigans.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

why can't my condom covered weiner be invisible? you mean I have to walk around invis-naked?

there goes any hope of december northeast football shenanigans.

If the rest of you is invisible because of something you're wearing that bends light or whatever... the second you pull out Mr.Happy, it no longer is covered by that invisibility suit.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

If the rest of you is invisible because of something you're wearing that bends light or whatever... the second you pull out Mr.Happy, it no longer is covered by that invisibility suit.

Well that sucks...except if you are a flasher and then it rawks.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

If the rest of you is invisible because of something you're wearing that bends light or whatever... the second you pull out Mr.Happy, it no longer is covered by that invisibility suit.

Wouldn't that be fab.....Say, you're sitting on a bus and you look over and see just a penis floating the seat across from you.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Wouldn't that be fab.....Say, you're sitting on a bus and you look over and see just a penis floating the seat across from you.

That would be so weird.

[rkmsuf]

We could put up wanted posters all over school: Have you seen this prick? Report immediately to Beula Balbricker. Do not attempt to apprehend this prick, as it is armed and dangerous. It was last seen hanging out in the girls' locker room at Angel Beach High School.

[KevinNU7]

In order for the penis theory to hold true a case would have to made that a person's face would have to be completely covered too, this would include their eyes or else you would see two floating eyes. So how exactly would someone where the suit and still be able to see where they are going?

[gottimd]

I woke up this morning with a bad hangover
And my penis was missing again.
This happens all the time.
It's detachable.
[background singing begins: "detachable penis" over and over]
This comes in handy a lot of the time.
I can leave it home, when I think it's gonna get me in trouble,
or I can rent it out, when I don't need it.
But now and then I go to a party, get drunk,
and the next morning I can't for the life of me
remember what I did with it.
First I looked around my apartment, and I couldn't find it.
So I called up the place where the party was,
they hadn't seen it either.
I asked them to check the medicine cabinet
'cause for some reason I leave it there sometimes
But not this time.
So I told them if it pops up to let me know.
I called a few people who were at the party,
but they were no help either.
I was starting to get desperate.
I really don't like being without my penis for too long.
It makes me feel like less of a man,
and I really hate having to sit down every time I take a leak.
After a few hours of searching the house,
and calling everyone I could think of,
I was starting to get very depressed,
so I went to the Kiev, and ate breakfast.
Then, as I walked down Second Avenue towards St. Mark's Place,
where all those people sell used books and other junk on the street,
I saw my penis lying on a blanket
next to a broken toaster oven.
Some guy was selling it.
I had to buy it off him.
He wanted twenty-two bucks, but I talked him down to seventeen.
I took it home, washed it off,
and put it back on. I was happy again. Complete.
People sometimes tell me I should get it permanently attached,
but I don't know.
Even though sometimes it's a pain in the ass,
I like having a detachable penis.
[background voices continue to sing "detachable penis" for
a while, then out]

[like a dog]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

That's an interesting point. Generally speaking, genius' of any type don't tend to enjoy government work. But in that example, the public had no idea what was going on for years until we actually used the technology.

Wrong. The public didn't realize understand how to enrich uranium or to engineer an atomic bomb but, if they had the neccesary technical ability, they could read scientific journal articles about nuclear fission and the tremendous energy that it releases dating back to 1938. The specific application of the technology was shrouded in secrecy for years, but the science behind the technology was common knowledge to the scientific community well before Little Boy fell on Hiroshima.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

In order for the penis theory to hold true a case would have to made that a person's face would have to be completely covered too, this would include their eyes or else you would see two floating eyes. So how exactly would someone where the suit and still be able to see where they are going?

This is true. What if there's some gauzy, see-through invisibility material for the face?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

This is true. What if there's some gauzy, see-through invisibility material for the face?

like an eye condom?

[Toddzilla]

I think we should ask Jeebs, he seems to have perfected it.

[rkmsuf]

If you could do it invisibly there would be a lot more scoring going on. A Golden Era if you will.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by like a dog

Wrong. The public didn't realize understand how to enrich uranium or to engineer an atomic bomb but, if they had the neccesary technical ability, they could read scientific journal articles about nuclear fission and the tremendous energy that it releases dating back to 1938. The specific application of the technology was shrouded in secrecy for years, but the science behind the technology was common knowledge to the scientific community well before Little Boy fell on Hiroshima.

Great, but theoretical versus reality makes all the difference. Scientists think they know how to make a wormhole, but it doesn't mean dooky until someone makes it. It's the secrecy around making something a reality that scares people, not the theory itself.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

If you could do it invisibly there would be a lot more scoring going on. A Golden Era if you will.

It might be the only way my girlfriend will let me put it in her butt.

[Runtheball]

This 'light-bending' discussion reminds me of the "cone-of-silence" which was tested by a super-secret government organization in the late 60's. Although the technology had it's champions, there was general agreement that it was ineffective and a waste of taxpayer money.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Runtheball

This 'light-bending' discussion reminds me of the "cone-of-silence" which was tested by a super-secret government organization in the late 60's. Although the technology had it's champions, there was general agreement that it was ineffective and a waste of taxpayer money.

Maxwell Smart and the Chief were all over this technology before it hit the news

SI

[vex]

The technology to make items appear invisible only continues to get better

A team of US and British scientists have successfully tested a device that is able to cloak a small copper cylinder from microwaves during testing. The cloak of invisibility only works in two dimensions and only on microwaves. The research conducted by Professor Sir John Pendry of Imperial College of London while working at Duke University involved deflecting the microwaves around the copper cylinder while being able to restore them once they reached the other side of the object. The little amount of distortion made it look like there was nothing there at all. The research team also used microwaves to try and detect the cloaked copper cylinder with little success.

Pendry's team published a theory around five months ago that stated his team would be able to design a device that would be able to cloak items to make them appear to be invisible. Even with apparent success, the team still has much work to do. They will now begin to try to develop a three-dimensional cloak.

Even though the research is greatly improving, scientists are quick to note that consumers shouldn't get their hopes up of possibly being able to use the technology in their own homes any time soon. The official press release even mentions the technical difficulties and unlikelihood of an object being able to vanish before a person's eyes like in the Harry Potter books.

This is not the same as the optical camoflague technique demonstrated by Russian scientists earlier this year. In fact, the technique from several months ago relies on cameras to "relay" the image behind the wearer. While novel, the technology does not really represent a breakthrough in the same way Pendry's team has demonstrated.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4626&ref=y

[Fonzie]

This would seem to be the final nail in the coffin for ladies' public restrooms.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

It wouldn't surprise me at all to discover that this has already happened.

I use it to cheat at WW games

[JeffW]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Wouldn't that be fab.....Say, you're sitting on a bus and you look over and see just a penis floating the seat across from you.

I think that's the subject of a Gogol short story.

[Galaxy]

Interesting article I found today:

Invisibility Cloak on the Horizon, Scientists Say - Â* MSN Tech & Gadgets - News and Features

Invisibility Cloak on the Horizon, Scientists Say
By Steven Musil, CNET news.com

Scientists say they are a step closer to developing materials that will render people and other objects invisible.

Researchers say they can redirect light around 3-D objects using metamaterials--artificially engineered structures created at a nano scale that contain optical properties not found in nature, according to an Associated Press report.

People see objects as a result of the light reflecting or scattering off them. This new mixture of materials has "negative refractive" properties that keep light from being absorbed or reflected by the object, allowing only the light from behind the object to be seen. Essentially, the material bends visible light in a way that eliminates the creation of reflections or shadows in much the way water flows around a stone.

The findings, to be released later this week in Nature and Science, were made by scientists at the University of California, Berkeley, led by Xiang Zhang. The research, which was funded in part by the U.S. Army Research Office and the National Science Foundation's Nano-Scale Science and Engineering Center, could have broad applications, including for the military.

But the materials work in limited wavelengths, so they won't be used to hide buildings from satellites, said Jason Valentine, who is a co-author of one of the papers.

"We are not actually cloaking anything," Valentine told Reuters. While the Harry Potter series of books and films has made the idea of a personal "invisibility cloak" popular, he says, "I don't think we have to worry about invisible people walking around any time soon. To be honest, we are just at the beginning of doing anything like that."