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#1 | ||
Go Reds
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio
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Online Leaguers -- OOTP5 HTML OUTPUT
Check the thread out: http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...threadid=22881
Then, check out the greatest thing ever: http://217.160.88.85/OOTP/ootp5/html/ |
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#2 |
College Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SE
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Very, very nice....
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GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025 |
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#3 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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The first player I clicked on had homerun totals that looked like this over 7 years.
16 14 15 16 14 13 16 I'd love to find a real player who over 7 full seasons had homerun totals this consistant. Looks to me this game, although it gets prettier - doesn't get closer to actually simulating baseball. |
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#4 |
Quarterback
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London, England
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It looks nice, but I have a big concern.
I have used the FOBL HTML for comparison. Standings Page in OOTP 5 - 19kb Standings in OOTP 4 - 7kb Team page OOTP 5 - 19kb Team page OOTP 4 - 10kb Player page OOTP 5 - 24kb Player page OOTP 4 - 4kb Top 100 prospects OOTP 5 - 40kb Top 100 prospects OOTP 4 - 13kb I would try to cut down the size of those webpages, or at least give users an option so that they don't find themselves using far more bandwidth than they anticipated. |
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#5 |
Resident Curmudgeon
Join Date: Oct 2002
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jimlynch: Check Tony Perez's HR totals from 1971-1979.
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#6 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Get the thermometer cause I got baseball fever !!!!!!!!!!
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#7 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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Quote:
25 21 27 28 20 19 19 14 13 25 (sandwiched by years of 40 and 9) Pretty consistent - but nowhere near as consistent as an OOTP player. I understand why you like the game, and that many others like the game - hell I *like* the game, but it's not baseball being played in the game engine - it's just generating statistics that make sense at a high level. Last edited by lynchjm24 : 02-02-2003 at 08:25 PM. |
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#8 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Somerville, MA
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i didn't realize that you had such an insight into the OOTP engine
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#9 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
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Hey Lynch thanks for ruining our fantasy.
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#10 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
I definitely agree. It's just the degree of customization, online leagues and reporting (and now with many improvements in those areas) that I truly like to see in a text-based sim. |
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#11 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Astoria, NY, USA
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lynch:
unless you plan on playing the game as realistic as possible (and let's get serious, even people after the most realsitic experience will do something that deviates off the path) then i wouldn't knock the stats the game generates. Sosa hit over 50 HR's the last several seasons in real life - who'd expect that? human players tend to think the end justifies the means sometimes. most of the moves we make as virtual GM's are to win a Worls Series. most of the moves reali life GM's makes are to generate more profits...and if it results in a World Series then so be it. |
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#12 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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Quote:
I have no idea what your point is. My point is that OOTP is a very pretty game that works very well that can be a lot of fun. It just isn't really a very realistic simulation of an actual game of baseball. I don't need much of an insight into the engine when I see the results player by player and it consistently creates players the likes of which have never existed in the game of baseball. |
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#13 |
FOFC's Elected Representative
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The stars at night; are big and bright
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impressive
__________________
"i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand |
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#14 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Satellite of Love
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Those are some damn fine HTML outputs.
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#15 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Somerville, MA
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well don't you think that a sim that can sim hundreds of seasons on a single computer will come up with more than just a few results that have never been seen before in baseball?
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#16 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kansas City, MO
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With all the hyperlinks and data they have added, you're not going to get those pages down much. An option to eliminate graphics would help a little, but not much. The pages are just simply longer.
The stuff looks great. I hope that spent as much time on the single player aspects. It's going to be hard, but I'll be wait and see on this game. They needed to completely overhaul the single-player engine to make this a great sim. So far, I'm seeing lots of online league eye candy. And I know I've mentioned this a million times, but not everyone has at least a 17-inch monitor with fancy-ass 3D cards. It's a freakin' TEXT SIM. There is no need to build their games and even their HTML pages for 1024 screen size. I found the TDCB purely unplayable due to the graphics requirements on my 15-inch monitor. |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Here
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Here is a statline from a player I somehow found (random clicking)
Bernard Cordeiro Year 2048 G 159 AB 659 H 209 2B 25 3B 5 HR 79 [/b]RBI 178[/b] R 136 BB 35 K 104 SB 1 CS 2 AVG .317 OBP .352 SLG .730 OPS 1.081 Teams DAL,L1 All I got to say is WOW, look at those home runs, I know Bonds hit 73, but damn. He averages 1 every 3 games for his career! I'd have to say that the game looks impressive, but hopefully there is compelling gameplay so I play it more than 2 times. Please, work on solo play for us loners who don't care about pretty HTML outputs. |
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Here
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Thank you kcchief for saying everything I beleive. Just give an accurate engine and a notepad, I don't need scrolling text and pictures.
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#19 | |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Round Rock TX
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Quote:
and don't forget the direct3d graphics they added that precluded play on windows NT |
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#20 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hartford
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Quote:
Sure, like ERA leaders with 50 strikeouts and batting champions with 150 strikeouts. It comes up with statistical history that pretty much flies in the face of all the research that has been done on the subject, but why don't we just ignore that because the HTML pages are nice. |
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#21 |
.400 Software Studios
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Please keep in mind that the intent here was to demonstrate the new HTML reports, not the engine output. The game is still in beta, after all.
![]() Re: 15 inch monitors and DirectX, I feel your pain. Unfortunately, its difficult (nigh impossible?) to keep adding featues and refinements without implementing some DirectX API calls and (to a lesser extent) going with a 1024x768 or higher resolution, particularly in a sports sim where information density is emphasized and screen space is at a premium. BTW, Direct3D and DirectDraw is not used *just* for 3D graphics. Its also used for plain 'ol 2D screen surfaces, and is much more efficient and a lot faster at drawing graphics. If you have played TDCB and OOTP4, you'll probalby notice that navigating from screen to screen in OOTP4 is so much faster. A lot of that has to do with the fact that Markus is using DirectX for drawing his screen surfaces. kcchief19, I noticed you said "its a freakin' TEXT SIM" ![]() > "Turn left" > You turned left. kinds of games. Or the old DOS sports game like Miller Associates / APBA. Is Championship Manager a text sim? What about a game like Risk, or hex-based war games? Are there other text sim games for the computer (nowadays) outside the world of sports? I'm also interested to hear what peoples' opinions are. Myself, I think the definition of a text sim is somewhat murky. JMS JMS |
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#22 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Willow Glen, CA
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Hey, that looks great...I'm looking forward to OOTP 5.
You guys might've noticed this already, but each team in the league pitching report has a '?' under innings pitched.
__________________
Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com. |
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#23 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SE
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Quote:
This is probably due to the column size display that is allow in the current version, I'm sure the innings pitched will be visible later. |
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#24 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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That output to me shows some SERIOUS problems are still out there in the engine. The HTML output, online leagues, customization, and a bunch of other things that are window dressing all appear to have taken precedent over creating a game engine that realistically simulates baseball. There are fundamental flaws that need to be fixed before this thing comes out of beta. I just posted the following over at the OOTP boards:
Quote:
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#25 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
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I wouldn't judge a game's engine based on output from a beta version (or alpha?) that was meant to demonstrate the html output.
I remember seeing some "unrealistic" things on screenshots from FOF4, as well as versions of other games. Once the game is released (and I REALLY hope there is a demo released at the same time!) then we can rip apart the game engine. ![]() |
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#26 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
Normally I'd agree with you there. However, these are problems that existed in OOTP3 and OOTP4 that I've never brought up to Markus before. Someone recently said that OOTP games feel like they were not created by someone who truly knows the ins and outs of the game, and that was a real "aha" moment for me. That statement really resonated with me and explained my feelings about the OOTP series. Since I read that comment, I think it is important that hardcore baseball fans make sure that Markus is aware of the flaws in the system. Prior to a couple of weeks ago, I just assumed he didn't care about the engine as much as the peripheral stuff. Now I am operating that it isn't so much that he doesn't care, but that he may not be aware of some of the problems.
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#27 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Good news. I just received the following PM from Steve over at the 400 Studios Board, and he gave me permission to post it over here:
Quote:
__________________
The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#28 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
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Quote:
I think bringing up the problems is a good idea, I just don't think judging the game before it's complete is fair. My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular, but more of a general statement. If there are problems, I think it's great that they are brought up (we did the same with the FOF4 screenshots). But judging the quality of the gaming engine when it's not finished doesn't make sense to me. I hope what I'm trying to say makes sense. ![]() |
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#29 | ||
High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: My Computer
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SkyDog, Markus has replied to your thread:
Quote:
Quote:
So hopefully the latest beta builds have fixed this (I've been fighting the flu all weekend, so I haven't had a chance to take a look yet), and we should hopefully have some better results at the end of the week. I'd like to thank you guys again for your insights, your comments and criticisms (at least the constructive ones ![]() Thanks Scott Last edited by ScottVib : 02-03-2003 at 07:34 AM. |
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#30 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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excellent.
__________________
The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#31 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
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__________________
The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#32 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: My Computer
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you forgot the smilie in the quote
![]() I know you guys are generally very constructive and there are a lot of good ideas in this forum (hence the reason I visit). Thanks again guys! |
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#33 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Great feedback!
I'm glad Markus is fixing these things as they are being pointed out. Todd |
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#34 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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dola,
Scott, is there anyway Markus can sort the transactions by team? Meaning when you look at the transactions page, can I would like to see a team name followed by their transactions. It looks to mixed up right now, for me at least. St. Louis 04/12/03 cut Kodos 05/20/03 signed Skydog to a 1yr/300,000 contract Toronto 04/03/03 signed Bee to a 2yr/350,000 contract Something like this... Todd |
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#35 | |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Greensboro, NC
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Quote:
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__________________
The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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#36 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
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At least I got the 2 year deal.
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#37 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Here
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Skydog, I can't beleive you stiffed the Braves, you know they like to sign old guys who can still hit every now and again to play first base... :cough:Franco:cough:
Bee, I think thats Canadian dollars. Don't get excited |
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#38 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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You scrubs kill me!
![]() Bee, that was taken from the ootp5 Japanese beta... think Yen! Todd |
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#39 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
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Ouch. Guess I'll need to call the wife and tell her not to quit her job.
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#40 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: My Computer
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Quote:
Not sure... personally I like the league transaction report sorted by date, so I can see what's happened league wide in the time since I last checked the report. Having to scroll each team and then check the date to see if there is something new there is a bit more cumbersome, to me... (much as having to look at the individual team transaction reports seperately to get the parsed view of the transactions is probably cumbersome to you) I can mention it too him though... you might want to post your idea on the .400 Studios board to see how much support it gains.. Last edited by ScottVib : 02-03-2003 at 11:48 AM. |
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#41 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Somerville, MA
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maybe an option between displaying the transactions by team or by date? that would probably work nicely
and, i think it's great that markus is paying attention to the nuts and bolts of the game. let's hope that this time around, the stats make some sense and the game kicks ass |
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#42 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Understood Scott, maybe a compromise then. Sort by date, but list all the transactions for a team under the team heading.
03/15/03 St. Louis signed catcher Easy Mac to a 1yr/400,000 contract released 1b McSweeny Todd |
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#43 |
Go Reds
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio
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I love OOTP, and the dedication that Markus, Steve, Joe, and Scott have to the game..
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#44 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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bump for ScottVib...
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#45 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: My Computer
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I saw your thread on the .400 Studios board, what you propose would be a compromise that I could personally deal with. However, I am not sure if it will make it in or not (its not my call). That will likely depend on how many people want it and how easy it is to do. It would stretch the length of that report a bit since we would add an extra row for each team that makes a move on a particular day, but may be something that would enhance the experience for some users.
Last edited by ScottVib : 02-03-2003 at 03:07 PM. |
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#46 |
Go Reds
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio
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my loins are quivering in anticipation
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#47 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Here
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Quote:
Not sure how to reply, but I'll take a shot. I don't think my dick quivers. The only thing I know that quivers down there is Fritz's pussy. Have you been using Fritz's pussy again? |
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#48 |
Go Reds
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio
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...y-..ye..s..
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#49 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Quote:
Thanks, no biggie if Markus doesn't have the time or even want to do this. It's purely cosmetic. Maybe I can get Skydog to ask this question? ![]() You guys do a great job of communicating and that's why I've bought ootp since v2. Todd |
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#50 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Somerville, MA
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figures... i kept telling myself i'd wait to see how OOTP5 would turn out before i plunked down some cash to buy it... damn... now i'll all pumped to play it so i'll probably be buying it within the first week
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