Atkin's discussion continued

[GrantDawg]

I can't remeber who it was that suggested using the Atkins baking powder as fried food breading (was it James?), but I told you I would try it. I did, and I loved it. I tried it with pork chops and it was tasty. Any other suggestions are appreciated. I'm 60 pounds down, 25 to go!

[Craptacular]

I'm currently staring at an Atkins Advantage Chocolate Peanut Butter bar, and am debating whether or not to try it. My wife bought it for me, but made the mistake of telling me she had a different flavor and couldn't finish it. Well, here goes nothing!

[Craptacular]

Well, when I opened the package, it smelled like a girl scout Chocolate Peanut Butter cookie, so that's a good start.

Perhaps I could turn this into a dynasty thread.

[Ksyrup]

I bought several items from netrition as a result of that discussion. So far, I have tried:

the tortillas - had them last night with fajitas and loved them

the Keto's "chocolatey" covered almonds - very good

the cool ranch chips - very good

the hot breakfast mix (apples and cinnamon) - not bad, not great, tasted like a pasty oatmeal, but at least it had taste

I also bought the cheesecake mix and pankcakes. I'll be trying them soon.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Craptacular
Perhaps I could turn this into a dynasty thread.

As long as the story ends with your description of the taste, and does not follow the bar's "journey" to its ultimate destination, I have no problem with that.

[Bee]

I like the Advantage bars except the fruit flavored ones. The ones with chocolate and stuff are pretty decent.

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
and does not follow the bar's "journey" to its ultimate destination

I just hope it's a slow one!

Well, I've taken 3 smallish bites, and so far, it's pretty bland, but not horrible.

FYI:
12 g fat (6g saturated)
<5mg cholest
21 g carbs, but 10g of fiber and 9g of glycerin, so you only need to "count" 2g
1 g sugars
19g protein

It uses Splenda, which has tasted fine in the few other products we've tried. However, it's the last ingredient listed, and the bar is definitely not very sweet.

[Bee]

They are definitely not for people who are looking for a milk chocolate taste. They aren't bad if you like dark chocolate though.

[Draft Dodger]

well, I'm sorry I missed that other thread - is it still around somewhere?

my wife and I are thinking about trying the Atkins once our son is done nursing in a couple of months.

anyone care to either a) point me towards it or b) give some thoughts on it?

[wade moore]

I don't have a ton of info on this.. but i thought that the atkins diet was very unhealthy as a long-term solution?

[stkelly52]

Just saw something on CNN the other day about the diet. THey said that it is dangerous if you don't follow Atkins instructions about taking the daily multivitamin. Aparently there are many who sort of skipped that part.

[Craptacular]

I think Atkins can be bad for your liver.

[rkmsuf]

Wouldn't common sense suggest that long term without vitamin supplements it is unhealthy. You are excluding major food groups.

[wade moore]

Even with vitamin supplements.. to me relying on vitamins heavily for a large chunk of your diet is just not natural... I'll have to look further, I know a friend of mine knew the exact details as to why it is not good for you... THere are certain elements in carbs that are very important to your body.. don't we have any doctors on here?! we have every other profession for god's sake ...

[rkmsuf]

I'm not sure how long it has been around. Due to the stunning weight loss in the short term it's wildly popular. I actually never met someone who has consistently applied this approach for say 3-5 years. I know there's a lot of controversy and Atkins was on the Today show very recently. I missed the interview but I think they were discussing this very topic.

[Bee]

There haven't been any conclusive studies "long-term". The American Heart Association did a study recently and found that the Atkins Diet was safe and effective over a 6 month period (actually was healthier than a low fat diet - lowering cholestrol and blood pressure levels).

I think a lot of experts have been assuming that it can't be healthy because it goes against a lot of preconceived notions about healthy eating that's been around for decades. But there seems to be a shift towards accepting it as more studies come out showing that Atkins might actually be right. My doctor recommended I do a modified Atkins diet because he wasn't comfortable with the how extreme the actual Atkins diet can be. I still lost a lot of weight (until the holidays when I went off ) and now I'm back to eating right I'm starting to drop weight again (although I'm close to where I want to be I'd still like to lose another 10 lbs or so).

[wade moore]

I suppose i'm saying.. "in theory" it is bad for you in the long run... not saying there were specific people who came down ill, etc... I guess i will just hush until i can do some actual research..

[wade moore]

Originally posted by Bee
There haven't been any conclusive studies "long-term". The American Heart Association did a study recently and found that the Atkins Diet was safe and effective over a 6 month period (actually was healthier than a low fat diet - lowering cholestrol and blood pressure levels).

I think a lot of experts have been assuming that it can't be healthy because it goes against a lot of preconceived notions about healthy eating that's been around for decades. But there seems to be a shift towards accepting it as more studies come out showing that Atkins might actually be right. My doctor recommended I do a modified Atkins diet because he wasn't comfortable with the how extreme the actual Atkins diet can be. I still lost a lot of weight (until the holidays when I went off ) and now I'm back to eating right I'm starting to drop weight again (although I'm close to where I want to be I'd still like to lose another 10 lbs or so).

Sorry for the Dola..

This is what I've always thought.. that a modified diet makes sense.. basically, cut out MOST carbs, but still intaking something.. I myself really have a blessed metabolism (although it slipped during college), however I could never go on this diet because you'd think I'm italian with how much bread and pasta I eat ...

I do not doubt the results, but it seems that maybe a "modified" version would be best.. maybe slower results, but a more balanced diet..

[stkelly52]

Originally posted by wade moore
Sorry for the Dola..

This is what I've always thought.. that a modified diet makes sense.. basically, cut out MOST carbs, but still intaking something.. I myself really have a blessed metabolism (although it slipped during college), however I could never go on this diet because you'd think I'm italian with how much bread and pasta I eat ...

I do not doubt the results, but it seems that maybe a "modified" version would be best.. maybe slower results, but a more balanced diet..

Actually atkins doesn't eliminate all carbs, just a lot of them. In the early stages it is almost all, but that is only supposed to last a week or two. In the maintenance stage it does allow for a good amount of carbs (coming through vegtibles and fruits generally). Also the diet allows you to take certain days off, so on christmas you can eat what ever you want (christmas day, not season)

[Craptacular]

Well, it took me a while to eat the whole bar, as I just kind of nibbled on it at work, but I'm done. It tasted OK, but I wasn't expecting a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup here. It's definitely not something I could just wolf down in a hurry, which, I suppose, is good. Honestly, it didn't really taste like any kind of chocolate, although I detected a hint of the peanut butter taste. Like I said before, it was pretty bland, not sweet at all.

My wife bought it for me because I'm trying to find some sort of breakfast food I can grab and go. I never give myself enough time in the morning to eat at home. I used to either throw a couple of Eggos in the toaster before I put my shoes on, and grab them on my way out, or take a granola bar or two with me. We tried the SlimFast bars before, but they load those things with sugars. Anyone have any good suggestions?? My wife has some oatmeal bars that I'll have to try, although I'm not a big fan of oatmeal to begin with.

[Craptacular]

Dola, just in case you're wondering Ksyrup, I haven't had to run to the commode yet.

[MylesKnight]

Well, I've been at the Atkins Diet for a little over a week now. I do as though I'm already beginning to shed a bit of the extra lbs., and I'm also pleasantly surprised to notice that I haven't really had any cravings for certain "no-no's" thus far.

Things have been going pretty well, and I've learned a lot about different types of foods and products and what they contain, as well as what certain nutrients and vitamins for the body are actually all about..

THANKS FOR MENTIONING THE ATKINS!! I APPRECIATE IT SINCERELY!!

[MylesKnight]

DOLA:

By the way, staying under 20 Carbs a day hasn't been as difficult as I thought it would be before I got started. Really, it just requires paying attention to what you're doing.

The Sugar-Free Jello for instance, has been a god-send for me in terms of a snack to have.

And, I've still been able to have solid, tasty meals just as I did in the past..

I'm also staying right around 2,000 Calories a day while doing all of this.... Excellent!!

If only we could fast-forward a couple of months..

[wbonnell]

It's all about BALANCE. I know that's cliche, but it's also very true. Anything taken to the extreme- drinking, playing video games, dieting, whatever- is unhealthy. Common sense dictates that you should not consume more carbs than your body can burn. If you don't have an active lifestyle, you should avoid excess carbs. Think about the average American- works at a desk; limited physical activity; eats fast food and drinks soda. Isn't that an obvious risk of obesity?

Personally, I work at a desk and my physical activity is limited (aside from walking my dog), but I managed to lose 30 lbs (I went from 6-4, 220 to 190) in 6 months by eliminating excess carbs. I don't count carbs. I don't subscribe to any diets. I have just eliminated (or limited) the mainstays of my diet: soda, orange juice, white bread and rolls, and junk food. In addition, I went from rarely eating vegetables to eating a tossed salad with every dinner. I love a good salad with grilled chicken strips and ranch dressing on top. Yum!

[Craptacular]

Originally posted by MylesKnight
The Sugar-Free Jello for instance, has been a god-send for me in terms of a snack to have.

Be careful about the label "sugar free". Admittedly, my wife knows a lot more about this than me, but she found that a lot of "sugar-free" foods have plenty of sugar in them, but they can still call it sugar free because of the type of sugars (non pure-cane sugar? I don't know) in the food. She has a whole list of "good and bad" sugars on our refrigerator. I would recommend doing a little research and finding out what sugars are OK and what are not. She bought a book called "Sugar Busters" or something like that, and it's been a good start.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by pjstp20
I have a degree in nutrition and all of my teachers were adament about how unhealthy the Atkins diet was. It does yield results but it is physiologically impossible to stay with. If dietary cholesterol is proven to affect blood cholesterol this diet would be extremly hazardous.

Long story short: this diet is made to make Dr. Atkins and his staff rich. It takes advantage of peoples naivete because they see that their losing weight but they don't know whats happening in their bodies in terms of health.

EXACTLY. And who do you think sells these "candy bars" and books? I will never subscribe to any diet that tells me to limit fruits, vegetables, and whole wheat intake- foods that Atkins can't produce (unless he invests in farming!) and market. Absurd!

[GrantDawg]

All of the health "warnings" are based on the induction period diet, but no one suggests you do the induction period diet long term. If you follow the Atkins lifestyle, you will eventually be eating 100 grams of carbs including fruit, vegetables, high-fiber breads, along with the meats and fats that you have already been eating. Eating this way would not require heavy multi-vitamins (though many vitamin sellers want you to believe everyone needs them), though while in the earlier phases you should take some type of one-a-day vitamin (but the exact same thing is true of any weight-loss diet).

The only Atkin bars that I eat regularly are the Chocolate Peanut Butter and the Almond Brownie. The brownie is ok, but I love the Choclate Peanut butter. I never liked candy bars that were real sweet, so these are right up my ally.

By the way, I eat one just about every day for breakfast. They are a good breakfast substitute. They usually satisfy my hunger even on work-out days.

[wbonnell]

Dola:

If you're overweight, look at your diet. Are you drinking soda or concentrated juices? If so, you're consuming unecessary carbs and calories. Are you physically active? If not, then don't consume more carbs than you can burn. Moreover, keep your caloric intake <= outtake. I can't understand why people need some quack like Robert Atkin's to tell them this.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by pjstp20
I have a degree in nutrition and all of my teachers were adament about how unhealthy the Atkins diet was. It does yield results but it is physiologically impossible to stay with. If dietary cholesterol is proven to affect blood cholesterol this diet would be extremly hazardous.

Long story short: this diet is made to make Dr. Atkins and his staff rich. It takes advantage of peoples naivete because they see that their losing weight but they don't know whats happening in their bodies in terms of health.

Yes, niaeve people like Duke University and John Hopkins Universty who have done the actual RESEARCH and have said that it is healthy and affective. I know people don't like to be proven wrong, but it is sad when "experts" don't even research and begin putting out false opinions.

[Bee]

Well, I'd suggest talking to your doctor before going on any diet. Talk it over with them and figure out what he thinks works best for you.

[Craptacular]

Basically, this is what I've been trying to do lately:

No (or very occasional) french fries. I used to eat these things at least once a day. Eat more salad (no dressing) instead.

Diet soda (although I'm still trying to limit myself to one a day), occasional OJ, otherwise just water.

Trying to cut down on white / corn-based flour products. I usually eat wheat bread when I have the choice anyway, but a lot of "wheat" breads are still loaded with other crap. We eat a lot of tacos / tortillas, so we're looking for some alternatives to yellow shells and white tortillas. We had some wheat tortillas which were very good, but I'm not sure how much better for us they were.

We're going to try some wheat and/or low-carb pancake mixes, etc.

If I manage to survive this stuff, I'll try to find something else to cut out.

[clintl]

I have suspicions that the Atkins Diet study ignored something that may be very important. The brain needs a certain amount of glucose to function properly, and it gets glucose from carbohydrates. So while the Atkins Diet may work for losing weight and be OK for the heart, it might not be very healthy for the whole body, and I don't think studies have gone far enough yet to establish that it truly is safe overall.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by wbonnell
EXACTLY. And who do you think sells these "candy bars" and books? I will never subscribe to any diet that tells me to limit fruits, vegetables, and whole wheat intake- foods that Atkins can't produce (unless he invests in farming!) and market. Absurd!

Have you read that "quacks" book? Have you done any research yourself? Did you know that the severe restrictions are only short-term? That the main restrictions long-term are in sugar and processed flour? How exactly is that bad for you? Wouldn't you benefit from actually reading up on what you are attacking?

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Bee
Well, I'd suggest talking to your doctor before going on any diet. Talk it over with them and figure out what he thinks works best for you.

Exactly. And you'll find more and more doctors are suggesting the Atkins plan. My doctor, my inlaws doctor, several of my friends doctors etc. They have all encouraged this plan and it has been worked well.

My father-in-law has lost down to his goal weight, and staying on the lifestyle plan has kept his blood work and blood pressure down for the last 2 1/2 years. I guess his doctor is just to "naive" to tell him to go back to the way he was eating (low fat), since he has been in so much better health.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by pjstp20
The secret to losing weight is simple, eat less, make your food choices nutrtionally dense, don't deprive yourself, but limit your unhealthy food choices, and exercise regularly. It's just common sense. The only reason that so many people have problems with it is because it takes a lot of self discipline.

The one thing all fad diets have in common is they make you eat less. That is why they work. But in order to have long term effects is to make changes in your eating habbits reasonable, which the Atkins diet is not.

Again, read what the long term of this diet is. It is about making better choice in your food, living a healthier lifestyle and actually enjoying your food at the same time.

[MylesKnight]

Thanks C-Tac.. Actually a colleague of mine mentioned the same type of thing a few days ago.

They actually printed out some information regarding this off the web and gave it to me. Needless to say, I was surprised to see how lackadasically the "Sugar Free" label is monitored by the FDA.

Personally, I don't "snack" too much anyhow, really for that portion of the diet I just needed to put away the Little Debbie Snack Cakes and instead try out some Sugar Free Jello or some Berries or something of that nature.

Funny, cause I haven't had jello since gosh I don't even remember, it's been that long. My little 4 Year Old loves the stuff though..

Originally posted by Craptacular
Be careful about the label "sugar free". Admittedly, my wife knows a lot more about this than me, but she found that a lot of "sugar-free" foods have plenty of sugar in them, but they can still call it sugar free because of the type of sugars (non pure-cane sugar? I don't know) in the food. She has a whole list of "good and bad" sugars on our refrigerator. I would recommend doing a little research and finding out what sugars are OK and what are not. She bought a book called "Sugar Busters" or something like that, and it's been a good start.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by pjstp20
I have looked over numerous studies in college and one thing I've learned is that you can make a study say anything you want. What is important to know is, not who did the study, but who funded it. If you look up who funded the studies you just referred to youd be suprised I think.

Neither of these studies were funded by anyone associated with Dr. Atkins. Duke University and John Hopkins University are two of the most prominent medical research facilities in the country. They are not "cow-towing" to a "fad" diet.

[Bee]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
Exactly. And you'll find more and more doctors are suggesting the Atkins plan. My doctor, my inlaws doctor, several of my friends doctors etc. They have all encouraged this plan and it has been worked well.

My father-in-law has lost down to his goal weight, and staying on the lifestyle plan has kept his blood work and blood pressure down for the last 2 1/2 years. I guess his doctor is just to "naive" to tell him to go back to the way he was eating (low fat), since he has been in so much better health.

Well, my doctor recommended a "modified Atkins diet". Basically, not doing the induction stage and still eating lots of fruits and vegetables (more vegetables, some fruit).

My wife asked her doctor about it since we need to eat the same meals, and her doctor said it was fine (she goes to a different doctor) especially the modified diet.

Both doctors did say to drink lots of water (which is important on any diet).

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by MylesKnight
Thanks C-Tac.. Actually a colleague of mine mentioned the same type of thing a few days ago.

They actually printed out some information regarding this off the web and gave it to me. Needless to say, I was surprised to see how lackadasically the "Sugar Free" label is monitored by the FDA.

Personally, I don't "snack" too much anyhow, really for that portion of the diet I just needed to put away the Little Debbie Snack Cakes and instead try out some Sugar Free Jello or some Berries or something of that nature.

Funny, cause I haven't had jello since gosh I don't even remember, it's been that long. My little 4 Year Old loves the stuff though..

The sugar-free Jello is fine, but you might want to limit your aspertame consumption. Up to you (I don't really go over-board either way). Sucralose is much better. Just buy home-made jello and substitute sucralose (or Splenda) instead of sugar.

[MylesKnight]

By the way, the old Diet Thread was one I began and is available on the old FOFC Board...

...Funny, the old Board is down at the moment. I hope it wasn't taken down for good, I still need to bring the rest of my domination of College Football (Yeah right!) Dynasty over..

Just look for the thread started under my name. It should still be on the first page, I believe.

[MylesKnight]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
The sugar-free Jello is fine, but you might want to limit your aspertame consumption. Up to you (I don't really go over-board either way). Sucralose is much better. Just buy home-made jello and substitute sucralose (or Splenda) instead of sugar.

Thanks Grant. Well I'm definitely not a jello freak, that's for sure, so I'm not too concerned about my comsumption level of the stuff.

It's okay, in very small moderations..

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by pjstp20
Then who funded it? These Universities don't put all this time and research into a study for free. Supplement companies are constantly funding studies to make their claims seem credible. The American wheat industry funded a study to say fiber prevents colon cancer. The beef industry is funding studies that say The CLA found in meat lowers cholesterol. All these studies are done by prominent Universities.

So never trust any studies. That way we can never know if anything works or is healthy.

[GrantDawg]

I couldn't find funding, but three were presented to the American Heart association and they used them to update their own guidelines on nutrition. But of course the American Heart Association is probably owned by Dr. Atkins too, right?

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
Have you read that "quacks" book? Have you done any research yourself? Did you know that the severe restrictions are only short-term? That the main restrictions long-term are in sugar and processed flour? How exactly is that bad for you? Wouldn't you benefit from actually reading up on what you are attacking?

As a matter of fact, I read "The New Diet Revolution" from cover to cover. I learned a lot about nutrition from that book, and it piqued my interest enough to conduct even more research. Atkins has some reasonable ideas, but conceptually, they are all obvious. What I took away from the book was that I need to curb excess carb consumption. Before that book, I typically only thought in terms of calories. That said. life is about moderation.

Atkins appears to be an opportunist (not necessarily anything wrong with that, per se). His "New Diet Revolution" is about $8. His cookbook is twice that. And he incessantly plugs his line of multi-vitamins and snack foods.

Is he a doctor or a salesman? Ugh...

[Daimyo]

The induction stage of the Atkins diet sounds like a euphamism for putting your body in starvation mode....

[Bee]

Most studies I've seen use control groups and a variety of test subjects. My wife actually has an extensive background in running studies, so I do have some basic knowledge on the subject through her.

I have no idea about the funding, but the assumption that the test subjects would have all been "morbidly overweight" is false. There isn't a respected researcher in the world that would be willing to put forth a study that obviously flawed. They would be crucified.

[Draft Dodger]

ok,
so question for those on the diet -
what are you drinking?

this seems to be the thing we're going to have the hardest time to figure out - doesn't seem like there's too much (besides water) that is ok to drink.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by pjstp20
Dola,

Im not saying the studies findings are bogus, and that universities are whoring there professors and labs to the highest bidder. In fact they are mostly pretty much acurate. you have to read the study, The subjects, the controls, the methods and compare that to your own situation. If you take morbidly overweight subjects you can feed them anything and they would show overall health improvments and weight loss, as long as they are eating less then they normally do. But is this comparable to the general public, no. You have to read beyond the hadline which may say: Atkins diet shows health improvements and weight loss.

How about:

Duke University's Eric Westman said he decided to test the practice of limiting carbohydrates and loading up on taboo fatty foods to see how it affects cardiovascular health.
After six months, the 120 obese volunteers monitored by Westman and his research team found Atkins dieters lost 13.8 percent of their girth, compared with 8.8 percent of the weight loss experienced by study subjects following a traditional low-fat diet (eating foods with less than 30 percent of their calories from fat). The blood-cholesterol rates dropped a little in both groups; there was a higher amount of good cholesterol, called HDL, found in the veins of Atkins subjects compared with the low-fat dieters. High LDL and low triglyceride levels can protect normal- and high-fat people from advanced heart disease.

Or:

A study by Robert Eckel, from the University of Colorado in Denver, found that a high-carb, low-fat diet helped people lose weight only if their bodies were engineered to burn the carbs rather than store them as fat. Consequently, obese people who had the inherited propensity for fat storage were not helped by the high-carb diet -- even though thinner folks in the study sometimes ate a high amount of carbs and kept off extra pounds without increasing their physical activity.
"To help from gaining weight you need to eat what you can burn," Eckel said.

Or:

Another study found that a high-protein diet did little to help people with a cardiovascular condition called hyperinsulinemia, which is a risk factor for obesity and diabetes. Women in the study, however, appeared to earn some benefits from regular high-protein menus, retaining more lean muscle mass compared with total body fat. Data from McGill University in Montreal also found certain fats seem to earn men greater weight loss compared with another group who ate a diet containing plenty of olive oil. The researchers said "medium chain triglycerides," found in coconut oil, palm kernel oil and butter, "in combination with plant sterols and flaxseed oil may help prevent cardiovascular disease by controlling lipid levels while also increasing energy expenditure."

Ps. The Duke study was partially funded by the Atkins research grant, but the other two were not.

[Daimyo]

Dola... I would be weary of taking diet advice (or any advice really) from anyone trying to sell you something.

[Bee]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
ok,
so question for those on the diet -
what are you drinking?

this seems to be the thing we're going to have the hardest time to figure out - doesn't seem like there's too much (besides water) that is ok to drink.

I drink caffeine free diet coke, sometimes iced tea, sometimes milk. Mostly I drink water, but that was the case before I started cutting down on the carbs.