Simply Amazing

[Braggadocioussss]

I was just cruising around the ESPN.com website and I decided to take a look at something. I feel this deserves it's own thread in reverence. Simply put, the greatest ever.

Click

[cthomer5000]

1995 looks to me like one of the most dominating perfomances by a player so significantly into his career. Mind-blowing.

[MizzouRah]

His only blemish was when he played for the 49ers.





Todd

[cthomer5000]

dola. If it weren't for that 1 carry for -10 yards in 1997, who knows how much more insane his stats would be.

[Senator]

He's no Terrell Owens.

[Braggadocioussss]

People talked about how Harrison had an amazing year this year. In 1995 Jerry Rice had over 100 more recieving yards, and 4 more touchdowns than Harrison did this year. All while catching over 20 passes less than Harrison.

*edit*

Anybody else remember how he tore up his knee in 1997? It was a young DT by the name of Warren Sapp that got beat on an end around, that reached out and yanked Rice down by his facemask on purpose.

[cthomer5000]

man, I can't say enough:

1543 touches
25 fumbles
9 lost

fumbled % .016 of the time he's handled the ball
lost a fubmle % .006 of the times he's handled the ball

[Maple Leafs]

I think Rice may be the only player in one of the major sports that is unarguably the best at his position. If anyone tried to argue Rice wasn't the best WR, you'd be stunned.

With every other athlete at other positions, you can have a healthy debate, but not Rice.

[bryce]

22 td's in 12 games... not much yardage, relatively speaking to some of his other prime years, but that's some serious td efficiency.

[sachmo71]

Jerry Rice is the best. You can argue, but it's hard.

[sabotai]

Jerry Rice is to Receviers as Wayne Gretzky is to Forwards.

[Fritz]

Rice is currently the best? Rice is historically the best?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by sabotai
Jerry Rice is to Receviers as Wayne Gretzky is to Forwards.

not quite -
although Gretzky is easily the greatest in my book, I don't think even he has the unanimous "greatest at that position" that Rice has. There are people who can make a case for Mario as the greatest center ever. I don't think there are people who can reasonably make a case for someone besides Rice at WR.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
I don't think there are people who can reasonably make a case for someone besides Rice at WR.

Don Hutson

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Fritz
Don Hutson

I said reasonably.

[cthomer5000]

You can make an argument for Hutson, due to his dominance in an era when those numbers were unheard of for a WR.

Still, i think Jerry Rice is cleary the best at his position of any football player ever. He's possibly the best overall player ever.

[Doug5984]

I think Jerry Rice should be considered one of the top players ever at any position just because he has been able to remain so good at age 40!...hardly any players last to their late 30s and this guy is 40 and puts up pro-bowl #s still.

[Daimyo]

If Jerry Rice couldn't ever win an MVP award with his dominance, will it ever be possible for a WR to win one?

[Joe Stallings]

What's funny - as a Redskins fan - is how

...well, everything is funny as a Redskins fan...

- is how Rice was supposedly going to Oakland, a shell of his former self, to finish out his career and catch a few passes in more of a "role player" assignment.

Man.

Two 1,000 yards seasons? I think the last Redskins to have back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons was Art Monk.

JMS

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Joe Stallings
Two 1,000 yards seasons? I think the last Redskins to have back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons was Art Monk.

and he ain't even a Hall of Famer.

[mckerney]

For now I'd say Rice is the best historically, but ther are a few guys in the league right now who have a chance to hold the title when all is said and done with their careers.

And if Charles Rodgers is as good as I think he'll be, he may be in that category too.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by mckerney
For now I'd say Rice is the best historically, but ther are a few guys in the league right now who have a chance to hold the title when all is said and done with their careers.

And if Charles Rodgers is as good as I think he'll be, he may be in that category too.

but even if he is as good as you think he can be, or as good as we thought J.J. Stokes would be ( ) ...

what are the odds he'll have the relative luck with injuries, and longevity to do what rice has done?

[Thadaleus]

Speaking of Jerry fumbling..
Didn't he fumble for absolutely no reason.. running for the endzone, with no one in front of him, seemingly getting the jump on the Giants in the 1987 playoffs?
If I recall correctly, as us Giants fans DO have short memories, that shifted the tide for the 49-3 blowout.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Thadaleus
Speaking of Jerry fumbling..
Didn't he fumble for absolutely no reason.. running for the endzone, with no one in front of him, seemingly getting the jump on the Giants in the 1987 playoffs?
If I recall correctly, as us Giants fans DO have short memories, that shifted the tide for the 49-3 blowout.

I'm not sure. But I also remember one of his fumbles was him just inexplicably bobbling the ball at the 1 or 2 yard line and then failing to get control of it before it rolled out the back of the endzone.... touchback!

It would be nice if we could further break down his fumbles into the ouch - what a hit! category and what the hell was that? category.

[kcchief19]

I have to admit that I'm not a big Jerry Rice fan. I agree that his stats are incredible and justify his reputation as the best ever at his position. But ...

Comparing Rice to anyone who played circa 1980 is useless. Rice could not have done what WRs did during the 60s, 70s and before. It was a different game.

You can also argue that he was the benefactor of incredible luck, having arguably two of the greatest QBs in history throwing him the ball in his prime. You could try to argue that Rice made Young look better than he was, but you can't argue that with Montana. Joe was already a legend while Jerry was trying to deke out DBs at Mississippi Valley State.

He also benefited from having his skills mesh perfectly with the West Coast Offense, which was designed to get the ball into the hands of speed receivers quickly. Jerry was in the right place at the right time.

I'm not discounting what they guy has done. But while he has put up great numbers in Oakland the last couple of years (in a West Coast style-offense, by the way), there is no way he goes for 1,800 yards and 17 TD in 1995 playing for the Raiders or somebody like the Chiefs. Likewise, I think there are a handful of players who could have come close to Rice's numbers if they were in the San Francisco system.

What I don't like about Rice is that to me, even from the very beginning, he seemed like a great guy to have around when the team is playing well, but if things are going south, he's a huge cancer. This has nothing to do with being competitive -- but I have no respect for people who can't lose with class. It's one thing to deal with it in the locker room. It's another to bitch when you're losing, have your wife call a radio station because you're not getting the ball or rip off a microphone at half time you said you were going to wear because you are getting your asshat handed to you.

[Braggadocioussss]

kcchief. Have you ever played football? I don't mean two hand touch messing around with the fellas. But a full season of organized competitive football.

*edit

I'm not trying to pick a fight here or anything. I'm just reffering to your comment about him ripping his microphone off. When your losing a game badly, especialy a big game, it's best that people don't hear what everybody says. Some things that get said on the sidelines are best left private. I don't think we as spectators have the right to pry into every little thing that happens to the players in the NFL. When I played if somebody asked to mic me I would have said no, just becuase of the nature of a football game.

[vtbub]

To play at a high level for so long is remarkable.

[mckerney]

Alright, it's time for me to come clean on my real views on Jerry Rice. I'm not going to sit here and say he's great. I'm not impressed. He sucks. His whole game, it's awful, his line applys enough protection where he can't help but get open and he just let's a great QB get him the ball. Let me tell you, if Jerry Rice had to make plays on his own, he'd be be living with Eric Crouch.

[Braggadocioussss]

Watch Super Bowl XXIII. That one game is a perfect example of how he was in his prime.

[Fritz]

Jerry Rice: Ecellent example of modern WR
Don Hutson: Redefined the pass catching end

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Fritz
Jerry Rice: Ecellent example of modern WR
Don Hutson: Redefined the pass catching end

you forgot

Fritz: really long-ass signature

[Qwikshot]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
you forgot

Fritz: really long-ass signature

I loved the Goonies...

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
not quite -
although Gretzky is easily the greatest in my book, I don't think even he has the unanimous "greatest at that position" that Rice has. There are people who can make a case for Mario as the greatest center ever. I don't think there are people who can reasonably make a case for someone besides Rice at WR.

Yeah, I thought about Gretzky, but I think you could make an argument for Lemieux or even Howe. You'd be wrong, but you could make the argument.

The only other possibility I can think of is Bobby Orr. I can't imagine anyone being considered better than he was, but then I never say Harvey play.

[kcchief19]

Originally posted by Braggadocioussss
I'm just reffering to your comment about him ripping his microphone off. When your losing a game badly, especialy a big game, it's best that people don't hear what everybody says.[/b]

I'm more than aware of what is said on a football sideline. If you don't want people to hear what you say, don't tell ABC that you'll wear the mic. If you tell somebody you will do something, do it. That's just a matter of your word meaning something.

He thought it would be cool to wear the mic and have them pick up his smart and witty comments on the way to victory. Once his team started getting his ass kicked, he ripped off the microphone. Based on the last comment we got from him before he did, it would appear that he did it so that he could rip his teammates and coaching staff, which just goes to underscore that Jerry is a great guy to have around when things are going well, but if the ball starts rolling downhill, Jerry won't do a thing to help.

[Jets80]

He's no Wayne Chrebet...but is "real" close.

[Alf]

And he was what : a 6th round pick.... Great value pick indeed by the 49ers

[Braggadocioussss]

Rice was the 16th overal pick in the 1985 Draft. But he wasn't the first reciever taken. Eddie Brown was taken before him. He went on to be the greatest reciever to ever play in the...Arena league.

[Fritz]

what is wrong with the arena league?

[Braggadocioussss]

Nothing whatsoever. I actualy got Chad May to sign an old Vikings football card of him a couple years back. I also talked to the Backup QB for a while after the game. Two days later he was released...I forget his name.

[Alf]

thanks Braga, I always thought Jerry Rice was taken low. Actually a 1.16 pick makes more sense.

[Bonegavel]

Football is a tough sport to point out individual accomplishment. There are obvious exceptions (Barry Sanders), but for the most part, it is a team sport.

A QB won't complete many passes if his line doesn't pass block or receivers don't catch. A reciever won't catch many balls if his QB can't throw the ball or if they are always matched with the top DB. A running back won't make very many yards if the line doesn't open up holes. A defense is strained if a punter can't pin the Offense inside their own 20 every punt, or kick-off coverage lets the opponent start at the 40+ yard line every kick. And, to glue it all together, a team is going nowhere without a good coaching staff.

I know there are exceptions, but for the most, the whole is greater/lesser than the sum of its parts (depending on all the above factors and more). How many players do you feel should have been great, but were surrounded with mediocre talent, or vice versa.

To say Jerry Rice was the greatest or the most over-hyped player ever, is very subjective. As it was pointed out, Marvin Harrison had a great year, but he couldn't help his team to the SuperBowl. Jerry, on the other hand, was in the superbowl more than once, with sexy results.

This whole season has made me rethink my view on text-simmed football. I used to be all about the stats. I never cared if I won the superbowl or even made it into the playoffs, I just wanted to have a player last 15+ years so I could rack up a bunch of stat-leaders. Now, I am playing with the end goal in mind: SuperBowl. The stats are still nice, but the goal of the football is to get to, and win, the superbowl. I know most people play this way already, I have simply jumped onboard.

[stkelly52]

Rice had some things going for him that boosted his stats that other WRs didnt' have that IMHO keep him from being a clearly the best WR in history.

He had two hall of fame QBs throwing the ball to him. He played on a team that lived by the pass, and he was the key reicever for Montana and Young to go to. If Rice had had an average QB throwing what kind of number would he have had? For that reason I consider Largent to have been just a good of a player as Rice. With Jim Zorn and Dave Kreig throwing the passes (not to mention Stan Gelbaugh and Sean Salsbury), and "Ground" Chuck Knox as coach he still put up great numbers.