Man Killed Teen for Walking on Lawn

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

BATAVIA, Ohio (AP) - A man who neighbors say was devoted to his meticulously kept lawn was charged with murder in the shooting of a 15-year-old boy who apparently walked across his yard.

Charles Martin called 911 on Sunday afternoon, saying calmly: ``I just killed a kid.''

Police, who released the call's contents, said Martin also told the dispatcher: ``I've been harassed by him and his parents for five years. Today just blew it up.''

Larry Mugrage, whose family lived next door, was shot in the chest with a shotgun. The high school freshman was pronounced dead at a hospital.

Martin, 66, allegedly told police he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn. He remained jailed without bond Monday. His jailers said no attorney was listed for him.

Neighbors said Martin lived alone quietly, often sitting in front of his one-story home with its neat lawn, well-trimmed shrubbery and flag pole with U.S. and Navy flags flying.

Joanne Ritchie, 46, said Mugrage was known as ``a good kid,'' but she always also considered Martin to be friendly.

Union Township is near Batavia, about 20 miles east of Cincinnati.

[Ksyrup]

"The snot-nosed kid next door walked on my lawn once. Once."

[Bearcat729]

What isn't mentioned is that supposedly the man shot the kid once then walked over to him and shot the kid again just to make sure he was dead.

[DaddyTorgo]

there was a shithead one street over who used to threaten us if we walked on his lawn. problem is he lived on a corner and his yard was curved in front, perfect to cut across. he'd come out yelling at us in the morning as we all met up to go off to HS and stuff. ass

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

there was a shithead one street over who used to threaten us if we walked on his lawn. problem is he lived on a corner and his yard was curved in front, perfect to cut across. he'd come out yelling at us in the morning as we all met up to go off to HS and stuff. ass

You're right, you guys were being asses. Is it too much to expect people to respect other people's property?

[Karlifornia]

Well, he won't have to worry about lawn care in the pokey...

[Ksyrup]

People should pour a bags of fertilizer all over the lawn and send him pictures of the burned-out wreck his lawn has turned into while he rots in jail.

[illinifan999]

Our neighbor mows her lawn 3x a day, 3x a week. I think if someone walked on her grass, she'd have a swat team ready to take them out.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

What isn't mentioned is that supposedly the man shot the kid once then walked over to him and shot the kid again just to make sure he was dead.

No one can accuse him of not following through.

Martin, 66, allegedly told police he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn.

You fuck with the bull you get the horns.

[hoosiergoody]

big news here in Cincytown- apparently the guy had called before to the police but nothing was done. Perfect scenario for an old-west hangin'. I do feel bad for the man that did the shooting... guess that that is what this world is coming to- road rage has turned to lawn-rage... seriously considering buying a plot of land on the moon... neighbors would be few and far between. Would also need solar power to run my computer for games

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here's an article with a lot more detail.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/usguns/Sto...736424,00.html
Gunned down: the teenager who dared to walk across his neighbour's prized lawn

· 66-year-old blasted boy twice with shotgun
· Killing highlights dilemma over firearms death toll

Julian Borger Washington
Wednesday March 22, 2006



"I just killed a kid," Charles Martin told the emergency services operator. "I shot him with a goddamn 410 shotgun twice."
He had gunned down Larry Mugrage, his neighbours' 15-year-old son. The teenager's crime: walking across Mr Martin's lawn on his way home. Mr Martin opened fire from his house and then, according to the police, walked up to the wounded boy and pulled the trigger again at close range, killing him.
Even in a country with a long history of gun violence, the killing of Larry Mugrage in a quiet Cincinnati suburb on Monday stands out as particularly senseless. Mr Martin seems to have been liked well enough in the neat bungalow-lined streets of Union Township, but he appears to have been obsessed with the territorial integrity of his patchy lawn.
Neighbours said he would work himself into a rage if they mowed a foot over the invisible dividing line separating their gardens. "He was really warped on that stuff," one local resident said.
Even after killing a young boy, who was apparently running home to fetch a video game, Mr Martin, 66, seemed indignant. "I've been being harassed by him and his parents for five years. Today just blew it up," he told the operator. "Kid's just been giving me a bunch of shit, making the other kids harass me and my place, tearing things up."
"Okay, so what'd you do?" the police dispatcher asked.
"I shot him with a goddamn 410 shotgun twice."
"You shot him with a shotgun? Where is he?"
"He's laying in his yard," Mr Martin said in a tone of calm satisfaction, as if he had just disposed of a dangerous animal.
Larry Mugrage, a popular hard-working and clever schoolboy, added his name to a high and persistent death toll. A child is killed by a gun every three hours in America. According to the latest statistics, nearly 1,000 children under 19 are shot dead every year. Another 800 use guns to commit suicide, and more than 160 die in firearm accidents.
Forty per cent of American households own guns, but those guns are 22 times more likely to be involved in an accidental shooting, or 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide, than in self-defence. On average, more than 80 Americans are killed by gunfire every day.
But the US gun control debate has faded from the political scene. The Democrats, desperate to win support in conservative states where gun ownership rights are sacrosanct, have muted their enthusiasm for regulation. The party's last presidential candidate, John Kerry, made sure he was pictured shooting ducks at the height of the campaign in Ohio, a swing state.
"The gun control debate on the national stage is non-existent for the time being," said Jens Ludwig, an expert on the issue at Georgetown University. "There are growing rumblings in Democratic circles that gun control is hurting them in the southern and western states they are trying to win."
Instead, the cause has been left largely to pressure groups which have been repeatedly bulldozed by the powerful National Rifle Association (NRA). A nationwide ban on assault weapons such as semi-automatic rifles expired in 2004, and other restrictions have been rolled back state by state.
Mr Martin had every right to his .410 (11mm) bore shotgun. Ohio does not require anyone buying any firearm to have a permit. Nor does the state require gunowners to have a licence, although some inner city municipalities have stricter rules. Most state legislatures considering gun legislation are seeking to relax the remaining controls. Last year, Florida introduced a law giving its citizens the right to "stand their ground" and open fire, even in a public place, if they feel threatened, and the gun lobby is trying to pass a bill in the state that would allow workers to bring guns into their workplace with or without their employer's consent.
Under pressure from the NRA, the Republican-run House of Representatives is investigating the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives for "abuse" of its power for cracking down on rural "gun shows" where controls on sales are generally looser.
Larry Mugrage will be mourned in Union Township as another victim of inexplicable rage, but the means used to kill him are unlikely to raise many eyebrows. Controls on shotgun ownership have never really been on the table in the debate, and that has been over for more than a year on the national stage. Mr Martin would have been within his constitutional rights to guard his lawn with an AK-47.
The 911 call
Charles Martin called the emergency services operator after attacking Larry Mugrage. This is a transcript:
Martin I've been being harassed by him and his parents for five years. Today just blew it up. Kid's just been giving me a bunch of shit, making the other kids harass me and my place, tearing things up.
Operator OK, so what'd you do?
Martin I shot him with a goddamn 410 shotgun twice.
Operator You shot him with a shotgun? Where is he?
Martin He's laying in his yard.
Guns in America
32.6% of adults keep guns in or around their home , according to a 2002 survey. An estimated 40% own a gun
30,136 people were killed by firearms in the US in 2003; 730 of these were accidental 1.3m rifles were manufactured in the US in 2004; as well as an estimated 294,000 revolvers; 728,500 pistols; and 732,000 shotguns. Only 132,50o of these weapons were exported

[JeeberD]

Damn. Just...damn.

[scooper]

My wife and I have very good friends on this street. We believe them to be in the same block from the shots we've seen on the news. We've not spoken with them yet, but their neighborhood is the type where everybody knows everybody else. I'm sure this is tough for all of them.

[Dutch]

30,136 people were killed by firearms in the US in 2003; 730 of these were accidental 1.3m rifles were manufactured in the US in 2004; as well as an estimated 294,000 revolvers; 728,500 pistols; and 732,000 shotguns. Only 132,50o of these weapons were exported

Those are probably good numbers to use in a gun-control debate...or a "is it really a civil war in Iraq?" debate for that matter.

[rkmsuf]

watch your cornhole dude

[GrantDawg]

If you're that obsessed with keeping people off your grass, move out of a neighborhood. Drive a little farther to get to work for the piece of mind of not having neighbors.

[miked]

I think we need more guns to protect ourselves from the crazy people who can guns so easily.

[Wolfpack]

Nah. The Guardian's not biased. Not in the slightest. BTW, was that a regular article or an opinion piece? Couldn't tell if it was the former.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Nah. The Guardian's not biased. Not in the slightest. BTW, was that a regular article or an opinion piece? Couldn't tell if it was the former.

While the additional commentary is certainly biased, I think the facts alone pretty much stand on their own, no?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

If you're that obsessed with keeping people off your grass, move out of a neighborhood. Drive a little farther to get to work for the piece of mind of not having neighbors.

Why should he have to move because his neighbors don't respect his property?

[Honolulu_Blue]

http://news.communitypress.com/apps/...603220484/1078

Here's what I think is a "spin free" piece from a local Cinci newspaper. Then again, I have no idea if this paper is "biased" or not, so maybe this is an opinion piece too, because, you know, there are just so many valid takes on a story about a old guy who shoots a teenage kid TWICE with a shotgun for running across his yard.


Boy shot for allegedly walking on yard
BYBY EMILY CREDITT | COMMUNITY PRESS STAFF WRITER
UNION TWP. -- The "premeditated" murder of Larry Mugrage sent shock waves down Hawthorne Drive in Union Township where neighbors in the quiet neighborhood said they often saw the 15-year old, who always greeted people with a smile and a wave, playing outside.
After an earlier apparent dispute over Mugrage walking through his yard, Charles Martin, 66, 855 Hawthorne Drive, went outside with a .410-gauge shotgun and fired twice at 3:21 p.m. Sunday, March 19, before going inside to call 911.


Martin calmly told the operator, "I just killed a kid. ... I shot him with a (expletive) shotgun." He then told the police dispatcher he would unload the gun, lay it on the floor and wait outside for the police to arrive. "I'll be unarmed." Martin then hung up despite repeated requests by the dispatcher to stay on the line.
Union Township Police Department Lt. Scott Gaviglia said after police arrived, Mugrage was immediately transported to Mercy Hospital Anderson, where he died.
Brenda Knorr, who lives across the street from the house where the Glen Este High School freshman lived with his parents, said Larry always was outside playing basketball, socializing with neighborhood kids or tossing a ball with his father.
"He definitely liked to play outside. He was just a regular boy. He was a very friendly child, always smiling, very outgoing," she said.
Aaron Knorr, Brenda's husband, who was the first person on the scene following the shooting, said Larry would often play with the Knorrs' young son.
"Larry was super kind to our young son of 22 months. (He) would always offer him a ball and play gently with him whenever we would visit," said Aaron Knorr.
Many are still in shock over Sunday's events.
"Obviously, we are in shock. This is not supposed to happen and it shouldn't have happened to Larry," said Brenda Knorr.
Marilyn Ludlow, also a neighbor on Hawthorne, said people in the neighborhood knew Martin was meticulous about his yard and often saw him walking the street alone.
"It is just unbelievable," she said. "(Larry) was just a boy -- just a kid -- and kids aren't perfect. Martin was very persnickety about his yard. He was just strange."
Martin told the 911 operator he had been "harassed" by the neighborhood kids who tore up his yard for years.
He had not made a call to the Union Township Police Department since 2003, said Gaviglia.
"If Mr. Martin was having a problem, he never contacted us," he said.
The Clermont County Crisis Team was dispatched to Glen Este High School, where Larry was a freshman in the School for American Studies, said John Abbeglen, West Clermont Local School District assistant superintendent of administration and personnel.
"The crisis team was called in and did interventions and were available to talk to kids," said Abbeglen. Crisis team members also followed Larry's class schedule to be available in class if needed.
Clermont County Municipal Court Judge James Shriver presided over Martin's arraignment Monday, March 20, where Assistant Clermont County Prosecutor Mark Tekulve asked that Martin be held without bond, calling the shooting a "premeditated act."
Martin is being held without bond in the Clermont County Jail.
Gaviglia said Martin is expected to be indicted by the Clermont County Grand Jury Wednesday, March 22, and will have a preliminary hearing before Clermont County Municipal Court Judge Thomas Herman at 1 p.m. Thursday, March 23.
However, Clermont County Prosecutor Donald White said if Martin is indicted Wednesday, the preliminary hearing will be unnecessary and will be canceled.
White said Tuesday, March 22, the grand jury members would be asked to indict Martin on one count of aggravated murder. The "aggravated" was added because police and prosecutors believe Martin premeditated the shooting, White said.
If convicted, the judge has three options to consider when sentencing: 23 years to life, 33 years to life or life without parole, White said. By law, the judge has sentencing latitude depending on the circumstances and nature of the crime. The three years is added because the murder was committed with a gun.
Also, this is not a death penalty case since under Ohio law, death is considered only when there is an accompanying crime, like kidnapping or robbery, White said.
Gaviglia said police ran the serial number of Martin's gun, but nothing came up in the rifle's history. It was unregistered, a common occurrence with rifles which are often purchased at flea markets or are quite old.
Neighbors, friends and family will remember the young boy who whose life touched those around them.
The street will seem empty without Larry, said Aaron Knorr.
"It won't be the same to not hear his voice or see him playing outside," he said. "He will certainly be missed."

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, I liked how they basically used the story as just another backdrop for a gun control debate!

[Samdari]

1-800-long-fence

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Why should he have to move because his neighbors don't respect his property?

When you live in tight neighborhoods, things like this will happen. There are people who will do things that you don't like or agree with. If you cannot cope, then move. I'm not saying that people shouldn't stay off his lawn, but the more people you put in tighter spaces, the less likely your going to have a neighboorhood full of people with samer beliefs/values as you do. You can choose to adapt, or you can move.

[cuervo72]

Also, this is not a death penalty case since under Ohio law, death is considered only when there is an accompanying crime, like kidnapping or robbery, White said.

This seems backwards to me...you can apply the death penalty in a case where the killing might have been unplanned (robbery gone "bad"), but you can plan a murder and not risk having it applied. Sure, makes sense.

[SFL Cat]

This guy should get the chair. Killing a kid for walking on your lawn is just insane *hopes this loser's lawyer doesn't see this post*

[Qwikshot]

From prior experience...my dad mowed a few inches on the neighbors lawn which had grown a little high...my father just moved it to get around a few border trees. The son came over and told my father not to do it again, because "it messes up the folicles"

Of course, whenever my parents throw an outdoor party their neighbor decides it's the right time to mow his lawn.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

When you live in tight neighborhoods, things like this will happen. There are people who will do things that you don't like or agree with. If you cannot cope, then move. I'm not saying that people shouldn't stay off his lawn, but the more people you put in tighter spaces, the less likely your going to have a neighboorhood full of people with samer beliefs/values as you do. You can choose to adapt, or you can move.

I think that's a realistic way to look at it. Just for the record, I don't really condone shooting a kid for walking across your yard. Getting him arrested for trespassing, yes.

Anyhow, just to play devil's advocate, the neighbors don't have to have the same beliefs/values you have. They just have to abide by the law. I'm not sure if it's a misdemeanor there, but if the owner or leasee doesn't want that kid walking across his yard, then the kid shouldn't walk across his yard. It's not a battle of beliefs or values; it's a battle of the law.

[Qwikshot]

dola

This guy will probably be determined to have dementia or some mental illness. Of course, there will be the usual discussion over gun laws, but like anything, this will fade with the next big story.

Hell in Philly, the Bloods have taken over in the suburbs, there have been a multitude of homicides with young people involved as the perps and victims...

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I think that's a realistic way to look at it. Just for the record, I don't really condone shooting a kid for walking across your yard. Getting him arrested for trespassing, yes.

Anyhow, just to play devil's advocate, the neighbors don't have to have the same beliefs/values you have. They just have to abide by the law. I'm not sure if it's a misdemeanor there, but if the owner or leasee doesn't want that kid walking across his yard, then the kid shouldn't walk across his yard. It's not a battle of beliefs or values; it's a battle of the law.

That's fine, and I understand what you're saying, but killing a person over your lawn? The guy needs to fry.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I think that's a realistic way to look at it. Just for the record, I don't really condone shooting a kid for walking across your yard. Getting him arrested for trespassing, yes.

Anyhow, just to play devil's advocate, the neighbors don't have to have the same beliefs/values you have. They just have to abide by the law. I'm not sure if it's a misdemeanor there, but if the owner or leasee doesn't want that kid walking across his yard, then the kid shouldn't walk across his yard. It's not a battle of beliefs or values; it's a battle of the law.

When I was a kid, the neighborhood always seemed to be a free zone for travel. Nobody's lawn was off limits unless they asked for it to be. I never dug up anyone's lawn, but I felt safe enough to walk in backyards playing games. Isn't that simply something you accept being in a neighborhood?

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

When I was a kid, the neighborhood always seemed to be a free zone for travel. Nobody's lawn was off limits unless they asked for it to be. I never dug up anyone's lawn, but I felt safe enough to walk in backyards playing games. Isn't that simply something you accept being in a neighborhood?

Yup. But as you said, his yard was made off-limits.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

When I was a kid, the neighborhood always seemed to be a free zone for travel. Nobody's lawn was off limits unless they asked for it to be. I never dug up anyone's lawn, but I felt safe enough to walk in backyards playing games. Isn't that simply something you accept being in a neighborhood?

That's the way I grew up, too. The people who didn't like it invariably put up fences. BTW, the rule was the front and side, but you stayed off the front as much as possible.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Yup. But as you said, his yard was made off-limits.

Generally those were the homes that had fences...of course, in this day and age, I suppose thanks to lawsuits, most people would want to keep people of their property.

Still, I only had one neighbor tell me to stay off their lawn and I complied, I didn't get murdered for it.

If you don't want people on your property you need to live away from people or place fences up to keep them out.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

Still, I only had one neighbor tell me to stay off their lawn and I complied, I didn't get murdered for it.

That's probably why you're still alive today.

[SFL Cat]

Where I grew up, the kids pretty much had free reign on most lawns. The few we didn't, we stayed away from.

I wonder if this guy ever even tried to talk to the parents of this kid if he was habitually cutting across his lawn? It amazes me how people will call the police, file lawsuits, etc. without ever actually trying to talk out the matter initially with the other party.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I think that's a realistic way to look at it. Just for the record, I don't really condone shooting a kid for walking across your yard. Getting him arrested for trespassing, yes.

Anyhow, just to play devil's advocate, the neighbors don't have to have the same beliefs/values you have. They just have to abide by the law. I'm not sure if it's a misdemeanor there, but if the owner or leasee doesn't want that kid walking across his yard, then the kid shouldn't walk across his yard. It's not a battle of beliefs or values; it's a battle of the law.

I agree it is a battle of the law, but if the police do not want to waste time hunting down people cutting across lawns, I can see why. This is not exactly the best use of law enforment resources. It is hard enough to get the police to come out on more serious issues, much less "cutting across lawns." This guy would most likely be first in line to protest any tax increase to hire more police so that might could handle minor squabbles.

Anyway, I think we all agree the kid shouldn't have cut across his yard, but there is no way you can justify shooting the kid.

[scooper]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

http://news.communitypress.com/apps/...603220484/1078

Here's what I think is a "spin free" piece from a local Cinci newspaper. Then again, I have no idea if this paper is "biased" or not, so maybe this is an opinion piece too, because, you know, there are just so many valid takes on a story about a old guy who shoots a teenage kid TWICE with a shotgun for running across his yard.


Boy shot for allegedly walking on yard
BYBY EMILY CREDITT | COMMUNITY PRESS STAFF WRITER
UNION TWP. -- The "premeditated" murder of Larry Mugrage sent shock waves down Hawthorne Drive in Union Township where neighbors in the quiet neighborhood said they often saw the 15-year old, who always greeted people with a smile and a wave, playing outside.
After an earlier apparent dispute over Mugrage walking through his yard, Charles Martin, 66, 855 Hawthorne Drive, went outside with a .410-gauge shotgun and fired twice at 3:21 p.m. Sunday, March 19, before going inside to call 911.


Martin calmly told the operator, "I just killed a kid. ... I shot him with a (expletive) shotgun." He then told the police dispatcher he would unload the gun, lay it on the floor and wait outside for the police to arrive. "I'll be unarmed." Martin then hung up despite repeated requests by the dispatcher to stay on the line.
Union Township Police Department Lt. Scott Gaviglia said after police arrived, Mugrage was immediately transported to Mercy Hospital Anderson, where he died.
Brenda Knorr, who lives across the street from the house where the Glen Este High School freshman lived with his parents, said Larry always was outside playing basketball, socializing with neighborhood kids or tossing a ball with his father.
"He definitely liked to play outside. He was just a regular boy. He was a very friendly child, always smiling, very outgoing," she said.
Aaron Knorr, Brenda's husband, who was the first person on the scene following the shooting, said Larry would often play with the Knorrs' young son.
"Larry was super kind to our young son of 22 months. (He) would always offer him a ball and play gently with him whenever we would visit," said Aaron Knorr.
Many are still in shock over Sunday's events.
"Obviously, we are in shock. This is not supposed to happen and it shouldn't have happened to Larry," said Brenda Knorr.
Marilyn Ludlow, also a neighbor on Hawthorne, said people in the neighborhood knew Martin was meticulous about his yard and often saw him walking the street alone.
"It is just unbelievable," she said. "(Larry) was just a boy -- just a kid -- and kids aren't perfect. Martin was very persnickety about his yard. He was just strange."
Martin told the 911 operator he had been "harassed" by the neighborhood kids who tore up his yard for years.
He had not made a call to the Union Township Police Department since 2003, said Gaviglia.
"If Mr. Martin was having a problem, he never contacted us," he said.
The Clermont County Crisis Team was dispatched to Glen Este High School, where Larry was a freshman in the School for American Studies, said John Abbeglen, West Clermont Local School District assistant superintendent of administration and personnel.
"The crisis team was called in and did interventions and were available to talk to kids," said Abbeglen. Crisis team members also followed Larry's class schedule to be available in class if needed.
Clermont County Municipal Court Judge James Shriver presided over Martin's arraignment Monday, March 20, where Assistant Clermont County Prosecutor Mark Tekulve asked that Martin be held without bond, calling the shooting a "premeditated act."
Martin is being held without bond in the Clermont County Jail.
Gaviglia said Martin is expected to be indicted by the Clermont County Grand Jury Wednesday, March 22, and will have a preliminary hearing before Clermont County Municipal Court Judge Thomas Herman at 1 p.m. Thursday, March 23.
However, Clermont County Prosecutor Donald White said if Martin is indicted Wednesday, the preliminary hearing will be unnecessary and will be canceled.
White said Tuesday, March 22, the grand jury members would be asked to indict Martin on one count of aggravated murder. The "aggravated" was added because police and prosecutors believe Martin premeditated the shooting, White said.
If convicted, the judge has three options to consider when sentencing: 23 years to life, 33 years to life or life without parole, White said. By law, the judge has sentencing latitude depending on the circumstances and nature of the crime. The three years is added because the murder was committed with a gun.
Also, this is not a death penalty case since under Ohio law, death is considered only when there is an accompanying crime, like kidnapping or robbery, White said.
Gaviglia said police ran the serial number of Martin's gun, but nothing came up in the rifle's history. It was unregistered, a common occurrence with rifles which are often purchased at flea markets or are quite old.
Neighbors, friends and family will remember the young boy who whose life touched those around them.
The street will seem empty without Larry, said Aaron Knorr.
"It won't be the same to not hear his voice or see him playing outside," he said. "He will certainly be missed."

The Knorrs are my friends.

FYI, the lots in this neighborhood are not extremely tight. There's enough room that they run four wheel ATVs amongst their yard and their next door neighbors. I'm not sure this changes any debate, but these people are not sitting right on top of each other.

This is very sad.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

That's probably why you're still alive today.

Actually I was killed, but my brain was processed into a computer program...I am in the process of taking over all networks like a virus.

All your base belong to us.


Actually, I think that you are in a neighborhood with kids, it should be understood that you are going to experience this. I think that when you /do/ create a stir (not as extreme as this) then you make yourself open for rebellion. That is what kids and teenagers do...

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

There's probably more to this story although hes completely crazy for shooting the kid, they were probably trying to provoke the man for a long time. You have to be careful when messing with those OCD types.

[KWhit]

It appears that this guy is someone who believes all of life's problems can be solved with a gun.

That's just horrible. I'm generally opposed to the death penalty, but I'd certainly consider it for this guy.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

While the additional commentary is certainly biased, I think the facts alone pretty much stand on their own, no?

I do agree about the facts, but a news article shouldn't be a platform for airing one's feelings about gun control. As evidenced elsewhere in the thread, others managed to write about the story without bringing such an angle to it. It's what just irritates me to no end about any media outlet in this day and age (left or right). I suppose I'm shouting into the wind on this topic in generally, though....

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Where I grew up, the kids pretty much had free reign on most lawns. The few we didn't, we stayed away from.

I wonder if this guy ever even tried to talk to the parents of this kid if he was habitually cutting across his lawn? It amazes me how people will call the police, file lawsuits, etc. without ever actually trying to talk out the matter initially with the other party.

Not knowing anyone involved, you never know that he tried to, and the parents, same as the kid, didn't see it as a big deal. Again, not condoning what this nutjob did, but if may have tried to deal with it in a more appropriate manner, with zero cooperation/results.

From personal experience...our back yard hits a dead end street (we are one of two double lots which our property hits both our street and the deadend in the back). After we moved in 3 years ago, we'd see every so often a kid or 2 we didn't recognize at the back of the yard (I'm not talking next-door neighbor kids, or kids who lived on the dead end street. I have no problem with them, I was a kid once, I know how that goes). These were older kids, 14-16 I'd guess. Eventually it became that they would walk completely through our yard, past the side of our house, onto our driveway, to get to our street to continue to where they were going. They lived, I am guessing, one street below the dead end...so cutting through someone else's yard to get there...

Eventually, it happened that I was outside mowing the lawn, etc when they tried to do it! Stopped the mower, and nicely but forcefully asked they not use the yard to cut through, of course which got me 'The other people used to let us' or 'F*&$ you!'. After a few of these, I had a parent of one of the kids walk up in the same situation, while I am cutting the lawn (parent probably used the same short cut through someone else's yard as well). The parent wanted to know why I was "threatening" their kid, causing a problem for them, blah blah blah.

Eventually, after our daughter was born we fenced the yard, and have had no problems. But the point is, some parents, like the idiots near me, think their kids have a right to do whatever they want, wherever they want...zero consequences.

Can't know this kids parents were the same way...but unfortunately, there are parents like that.

[Drake]

Hell, I live on 60 acres with very few neighbors close by -- and you can bet that if I find some yahoo in my back yard, I don't reach for the shotgun, but I for damned sure know where it is.

Then again, that could be because anybody in my yard is either an armed hunter or somebody looking for a quiet place to open up a meth lab.

But as most rural folks will tell you, if you get a big enough/mean enough dog, you don't really need a shotgun to chase off the strangers.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

From prior experience...my dad mowed a few inches on the neighbors lawn which had grown a little high...my father just moved it to get around a few border trees. The son came over and told my father not to do it again, because "it messes up the folicles"

Of course, whenever my parents throw an outdoor party their neighbor decides it's the right time to mow his lawn.

I pray that our soon to be new neighbors are nice reasonable people... (they seemed nice with my brief meeting of them.)

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Drake

Hell, I live on 60 acres with very few neighbors close by -- and you can bet that if I find some yahoo in my back yard, I don't reach for the shotgun, but I for damned sure know where it is.

Then again, that could be because anybody in my yard is either an armed hunter or somebody looking for a quiet place to open up a meth lab.

But as most rural folks will tell you, if you get a big enough/mean enough dog, you don't really need a shotgun to chase off the strangers.

This is true. I used to keep my Dog fenced in the back yard, but he has become a tunneler...not a digger. This dog weighs close to 90 pounds, and he will tunnel beneath a six inch deep one foot wide concrete mow-strip to freedom. He can do it in an eight hour day. Now he just gets to run around, and scare the hell out of anyone who doesn't know he is a big pussycat.

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I pray that our soon to be new neighbors are nice reasonable people... (they seemed nice with my brief meeting of them.)

Hopefully they will turn out fine.

Having psycho neighbors really makes life unpleasant. My neighbors are great people (their kids can cut through my yard--they would stop if I asked them to.) But I've had deranged neighbors in the past (the guy wound up in jail eventually for drugs), and every minute I was on edge, wondering if he was going to flip out over something seemingly trivial.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Drake

But as most rural folks will tell you, if you get a big enough/mean enough dog, you don't really need a shotgun to chase off the strangers.

Then again, it's hard to poison a good shotgun

[Raiders Army]

But a shotgun won't turn your yard into a poop minefield.

[scooper]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

But a shotgun won't turn your yard into a poop minefield.

It will if you point it at the right people.