Isiah Are you kidding me?

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2339941

Francis dealt to Knicks for Penny, ArizaBy Chris Sheridan
ESPN Insider


Steve Francis is headed to the New York Knicks, who acquired the three-time All-Star from the Orlando Magic on Wednesday for Penny Hardaway and Trevor Ariza.


The deal will pair Francis with Stephon Marbury as the highest-paid backcourt duo in the NBA. The Knicks were still talking with several other clubs as team president Isiah Thomas worked at remaking a roster that has stumbled to the league's second-worst record, 15-37.

For the Magic, the trade will provide salary cap relief in 2007 (once Grant Hill's $16.9 million comes off the cap) when they can drop further beneath the cap than any of the league's 30 teams. That will be particularly attractive that summer when a bumper crop of free agents -- including Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups, Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter and Mike Bibby -- will be on the market, giving Orlando several options in figuring out exactly how to rebuild around 20-year-old power forward Dwight Howard.



Francis is owed $49 million over the next three seasons, while Hardaway's $15.75 million contract comes off the cap at the end of this season.

Ariza, who fell out of favor with Knicks coach Larry Brown, was averaging only 4.6 points in 36 games for New York. He was a second-round pick by the Knicks (43rd overall) in 2004 after spending just one season at Southern Cal.

Francis, who turned 29 on Tuesday, had been on the trading block since refusing to re-enter a game against Seattle on Jan. 11. The Magic suspended him and sent him home before he was reinstated following a meeting with coach Brian Hill and team executives. He was averaging a career-low 16.2 points this season, a drop of more than five points from last season.

The arrival of Francis could mean the impending departure of Jamal Crawford or Quentin Richardson from New York, where Thomas is willing to try almost anything to reverse the fortunes of a team that has failed to meet even the lowest of expectations. Already with a league-high payroll of more than $120, the Knicks will now be above $130 million next season. But while other owners and general managers have been shocked by the Knicks' free-spending ways (they took on a $34 million obligation when they traded Antonio Davis for Jalen Rose two weeks ago), Thomas has been given the go-ahead by owner James Dolan of Cablevision to spend whatever it takes in an effort at making Madison Square Garden the basketball mecca it once was.

The Knicks began the day 10 games behind Philadelphia for the Eastern Conference's eighth and final playoff spot, and only a miraculous turnaround could get them into the postseason this year. Still, it was a virtual certainty that New York would make a deal of some kind, and Crawford even polled the team's beat writers after Wednesday morning's shootaround to ask them where they believed he would be headed (Insider was the only one who told him Denver).

The Francis trade, first reported by ESPN.com, came on a day when the Knicks awoke to rumors of a possible trade with Minnesota for Kevin Garnett, a rumor that made its way around the league late Tuesday night -- possibly as a piece of disinformation that was disseminated in order to force the Magic's hand. Garnett's future in Minnesota seems secure through the end of this season, but all bets are off once the summer arrives -- especially if Garnett tells ownership he'd like to be traded.

Hardaway was also shopped to the Portland Trail Blazers, who had been unwilling to part with Darius Miles in a deal that also would have brought Theo Ratliff to New York.

Hardaway, a 12-year veteran, will be reunited with the team he broke into the NBA with in 1993 when the Magic acquired Hardaway and three first-round draft picks from Golden State for Chris Webber. Hardaway left Orlando after six seasons to sign as a free agent with the Phoenix Suns, who traded him to New York 4½ years later in the deal that brought Marbury to the Knicks.

Hardaway played in only four games for New York this season and had been away from the team for several weeks, ostensibly to rehab his arthritic knees. It was not known if he planned to play for Orlando this season, nor was it certain whether Francis was to be available for the Knicks on Wednesday night for their home game against the Miami Heat. Francis was expected to at least be in the building, however, as the trade happened while the Magic were in the New York area for a road game against the New Jersey Nets.

"This is a trade that we all feel makes us a better basketball team for both now and in the future," Thomas said in a news release announcing the deal. "In Steve, we add an All-Star caliber player to our team without giving up core assets that are key to our future."

Francis had career averages of 19.7 points, 6.1 rebounds and 6.5 assists in 452 career games for the Rockets and Magic entering the 2005-06 season. He was the 2000 NBA Co-Rookie of the Year and was selected to start for the Western Conference All-Stars from 2002-2004.

"Acquiring a player of Steve's level and talent is very exciting for this team," Brown said. "In him, we have added a veteran that could help us in many areas, and assist with our young players' development."



The Knicks might as well keep Isiah as GM because no one in his right mind would try to untangle this salary cap mess. Where the hell is Scott Layden at?

[miami_fan]

This also gives them 2 score first point guards who don't like to defend and at least three players who need to pound the air out of the ball to be effective.

[Swaggs]

I don't follow (or know much about) the NBA, but I love reading the Sports Guy rip on Isiah. Apparenlty Isiah threatened him on a radio show several weeks ago.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I wonder how long it would take to fix the salary hell they are in now.

[ISiddiqui]

Didn't Hell Atlantic do a deal similar to this with the ESPN NBA trade machine?!

[Anthony]

at least i was able to get back Dwayne Wade and Shaq for Penny and some other scrubs.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Dean Houston 4 Knicks GM!!1!

[Dean Houston]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Dean Houston 4 Knicks GM!!1!

I don't find basketball all that interesting. I've always been about the team, and hoops are all about showboating and individual performance. I do my showboating by pointing to my championship rings.

[stevew]

The salary hell is irrelevant, as the knicks make so much money that they can afford to lose money. But the real problem is that he makes these huge trades and the players he keeps getting back are all fundamentally flawed. Francis and Marbury in the same backcourt should be hilarious to watch.

[Anthony]

hey, dammit, SkyDog better change the title underneath Dean Houston. this is completely disrespectful. i'll accept an apology and a title change to "Champion" or "Greatest FOF Player Of All The Universe and Beyond".

[Daimyo]

Isiah probably figured they were just a scoring PG or SF away from contention... he is the Matt Millen of basketball.

[Neuqua]

When I read about this, I could not help but shake my head and laugh (I'm a Bulls fan.)

Did Isiah really hate the Knicks while growing up and this is all a part of his master plan to bring his most hated organization down to it's knees?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by stevew

The salary hell is irrelevant, as the knicks make so much money that they can afford to lose money. But the real problem is that he makes these huge trades and the players he keeps getting back are all fundamentally flawed. Francis and Marbury in the same backcourt should be hilarious to watch.

I think the salary hell will be relevant once Isaiah (or his successor, more likely) realizes that the current method of trading for more me-first stars with insane contracts just isn't going to work. Shedding that payroll and rebuilding with a different core of players will prove to be very difficult, IMO.

[Easy Mac]

It makes sense. What team would want 21 million unproductive dollars off the cap when they could exchange that for 15 mil for the next 3. I was slightly surprised that ESPN's trade machine let me make this trade. I wonder if it would get shot down on TPB.

[sovereignstar]

The trade machine only checks to see if the trade complies with the CBA. It doesn't evaluate talent or anything of that nature.

[Izulde]

I suddenly have the urge to do a new TPB dynasty with the Knicks

[miami_fan]

So Knick fans rather have this than actually blowing up the team, and rebuilding it properly? Of course with a new GM

[oykib]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

So Knick fans rather have this than actually blowing up the team, and rebuilding it properly? Of course with a new GM

Of course not. I, for one, have been about rebuilding ever since Patrick Ewing's last season. But then they made that Jackass trade because he wasn't going to be happy unless they gave him an extension.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by stevew

The salary hell is irrelevant, as the knicks make so much money that they can afford to lose money.

It's not that they can't pay the salaries but their cap situation is so screwed up for so long that the only way they will ever dig out is to basically let the team rot as is for five years and totally start over - either that or wait until Thomas catches on with a new team and wait for him to trade for all the crap with that team.

In the NBA the cap is irrelevant if you have the $$ to pay huge salaries and are willing to pay the hefty luxury tax AND if you have talent you wish to continue to pay. Look at what Detroit did - get way under the cap and then bring the pieces in. Now that they have the best starting five in the league they can dole out max contracts to them for as long as they like. The Knicks on the other hand have a bunch over overpaid players that nobody else in the league will take and the minute they're about to make any headway at all (ie Penny's contract) Thomas trades it in for more magic beans. As hard as it is to say comparing Matt Millen to Thomas is unfair to Millen and so far he's been terrible as a GM. Thomas is the worst executive in the history of pro sports - everything he's touched off the court has been a disaster. Toronto, the CBA and now New York.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

The trade machine only checks to see if the trade complies with the CBA. It doesn't evaluate talent or anything of that nature.

Yeah, I think this tells you everything you need to know on that front:

This Trade Succeeded! Go back to adjust your trade or start over.
Miami Heat

Incoming Players
	Rafer Alston Salary: $3,850,000 Years Remaining: 3 PTS: 11.5 REB: 4.1 AST: 6.5 PER: 14.38

Outgoing Players: Dwyane Wade
Houston Rockets

Incoming Players
	Dwyane Wade Salary: $3,031,920 Years Remaining: 1 PTS: 27.4 REB: 5.9 AST: 6.8 PER: 28.58

Outgoing Players: Rafer Alston





SI

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

It's not that they can't pay the salaries but their cap situation is so screwed up for so long that the only way they will ever dig out is to basically let the team rot as is for five years and totally start over - either that or wait until Thomas catches on with a new team and wait for him to trade for all the crap with that team.

In the NBA the cap is irrelevant if you have the $$ to pay huge salaries and are willing to pay the hefty luxury tax AND if you have talent you wish to continue to pay. Look at what Detroit did - get way under the cap and then bring the pieces in. Now that they have the best starting five in the league they can dole out max contracts to them for as long as they like. The Knicks on the other hand have a bunch over overpaid players that nobody else in the league will take and the minute they're about to make any headway at all (ie Penny's contract) Thomas trades it in for more magic beans. As hard as it is to say comparing Matt Millen to Thomas is unfair to Millen and so far he's been terrible as a GM. Thomas is the worst executive in the history of pro sports - everything he's touched off the court has been a disaster. Toronto, the CBA and now New York.

I really don't think letting Penny go to FA is making headway though. Francis is a cancer, and such, but he is a talented player maybe he grows up, and returns to form when he was actually good. If Penny leaves, you get absolutely nothing back for him. Of course, adding Francis to their pile of crap roster won't help. Francis and Marbury together will, of course, be a disaster.

Some of the deals Isiah has made have been decent, when he's gotten first round picks back for expiring contracts. He's done a decent job drafting as well, but he could really benefit from having the Knicks own pick these years. At least in this trade he didnt give up any first rounders.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by stevew

I really don't think letting Penny go to FA is making headway though. Francis is a cancer, and such, but he is a talented player maybe he grows up, and returns to form when he was actually good. If Penny leaves, you get absolutely nothing back for him. Of course, adding Francis to their pile of crap roster won't help. Francis and Marbury together will, of course, be a disaster.

Some of the deals Isiah has made have been decent, when he's gotten first round picks back for expiring contracts. He's done a decent job drafting as well, but he could really benefit from having the Knicks own pick these years. At least in this trade he didnt give up any first rounders.

Penny hasn't been a factor in the league for years. Getting his contract off the books was worth more to the team than having him on the roster. Had they gotten someone they actually will be able to build around (doubtful because the only way anyone would take Penny is in a salary dump) it would have been one thing but to trade that money off the books for a clone of exactly what they don't need was just stupid. There's no chance of Francis not being a cancer when a) he couldn't do it in Orlando with no other superstars around him and b) he's paired with Starbury. The Knicks are a Ron Artest away from being the best drama on TV - and the worst them in the NBA.

I would like to know what you consider a decent deal that Thomas made. I can't think of one that he's made while at the helm. He hasn't done anything drafting either. Who's the best guy he drafted? Mike Sweetney? Where's he at now? This year's class might be decent - I like both Frye and Lee and I even like Nate Robinson so I will give him credit for that much. But its a sad thing when the silver lining in a trade is "well at least we didn't trade away another first rounder"

[JeeberD]

Why ya gotta be dissin' Skip, SI?

[JeffR]

The Magic waived Bo Outlaw to make room for Penny Hardaway on the roster.

I don't care if it's just a cap move, that still has to rank pretty high on the list of sentences I never wanted to read. Bo always looked like the kind of guy who couldn't believe people were willing to pay him money to play basketball; Penny like the kind who can't believe people expect him to play basketball to earn his money.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by JeffR

The Magic waived Bo Outlaw to make room for Penny Hardaway on the roster.

I don't care if it's just a cap move, that still has to rank pretty high on the list of sentences I never wanted to read. Bo always looked like the kind of guy who couldn't believe people were willing to pay him money to play basketball; Penny like the kind who can't believe people expect him to play basketball to earn his money.

I thought Penny had unoffically 'retired.' Do they have to put him on the roster? Isn't there some sort of injured reserve or inactive list they could put him on?

I don't know much about the NBA.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I thought Penny had unoffically 'retired.' Do they have to put him on the roster? Isn't there some sort of injured reserve or inactive list they could put him on?

I don't know much about the NBA.

I'm sure I remember reading Penny bitching about not getting any playtime at all this year in New York. He's not injured, just old and sucky.

His career has been a shame, really. I first got in to basketball right back when he teamed up with Shaq in Orlando. They weren't my favourite team but I liked watching them play and I figured Penny was headed for the big time once Shaq left. Instead, Horace Grant steps it up and Penny showed us all that he wasn't ever going to live up to the hype.

[miami_fan]

I would not expect Penny to play any significant minutes in Orlando either. They really like Nelson and they have Arroyo backing him up at the one. He could play some at the two guard. I don't think that his body can hold up to significant minutes.

Somebody mentioned it earlier but it needs to be brought up again. Isiah keeps bringing in flawed pieces to the puzzle that is the Knicks. Each move he has made does not match what the team needs at that time. Why bring in James and then bring in Curry? Why draft Lee and then trade for Rose? Oh yeah and that is AFTER you already traded for Quentin Richardson. Now you bring in Francis to play ahead of Nate Robinson. I am beginning to wonder if this is the same guy who played on those championship Pistons teams.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am beginning to wonder if this is the same guy who played on those championship Pistons teams.

it's the same guy. his prowess as a player and ability in assembling a team don't have anything to do with one another.

[Groundhog]

Seriously, go to NBA.com and look at that Knicks roster. Ugly as sin. I can't recall an uglier roster by any team that isn't under the cap and looking to rebuild.

If I could choose any players from that roster to have on my NBA team (incl. current contracts), I would pick their rookies and that's it.

[bosshogg23]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Seriously, go to NBA.com and look at that Knicks roster. Ugly as sin. I can't recall an uglier roster by any team that isn't under the cap and looking to rebuild.

If I could choose any players from that roster to have on my NBA team (incl. current contracts), I would pick their rookies and that's it.

The funny thing with the NY Knicks roster is that alot of these players were considered "versatile" players. In reality it turned out to be players who had no position at all. Crawford, Francis, J. Rose, Taylor and Penny(pre-trade). No position, alot of money, a severe lack of defense. Wow....

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Groundhog be easy on Penny, after that injury he wasnt the same player. Now whether that was due to a lax rehibilitation or just an extreme career altering injury is anyone's guess.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by bosshogg23

The funny thing with the NY Knicks roster is that alot of these players were considered "versatile" players. In reality it turned out to be players who had no position at all. Crawford, Francis, J. Rose, Taylor and Penny(pre-trade). No position, alot of money, a severe lack of defense. Wow....

Bingo. "Versatile" is the new "potential". Guys like Crawford, Darius Miles, et al. are all guys who are good at a few things but great at nothing. Occassionaly they'll have their big game, but for half the season they'll have you tearing out your hair.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by TheOhioStateUniversity

Groundhog be easy on Penny, after that injury he wasnt the same player. Now whether that was due to a lax rehibilitation or just an extreme career altering injury is anyone's guess.

I haven't checked, but Penny was healthy the season after Shaq left wasn't he? That was the season Penny took a few steps backwards.

It's a funny thing with these tall PGs; they always end up just sliding to SG/SF. Penny Hardaway, Steve Smith, Jalen Rose, that guy on the Sixers bench who's name escapes me.

[Warhammer]

Penny's problem was two fold. First, he had the injury, which he never came back from at anywhere near what he was before. Second, he told the team he wouldn't play point. That was absolutely insane, since if he was a point, he would create match up nightmares for just about any team. He was never a good enough shooter to justify being a SG.

[ThunderingHERD]

Larry Brown is obviously thrilled.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Who's the best guy he drafted?

Tmac


I don't particularly think that Rose for Davis and a late first round pick is a bad deal. They actually plan to use Rose(I think) plus he can head out next year in a similar deal.

I think he's an awful GM, but is more of a autistic one that a total retard.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2339941Ariza, who fell out of favor with Knicks coach Larry Brown, was averaging only 4.6 points in 36 games for New York. He was a second-round pick by the Knicks (43rd overall) in 2004 after spending just one season at Southern Cal.

Good freakin' Lord. Sheridan and/or his copy editor(s) should be shitcanned for flubbing this one.

Not only do you call USC by the name "Southern Cal", which most USC fans either don't like or downright hate, but Ariza actually went to UCLA!!!

[Schmidty]

I miss Isiah. I wish he was still a Piston. Of course, I mean I wish he was a color commentator for Piston UPN broadcasts. He'd be interesting.

[KeyserSoze]

When he played in Detroit, Isiah hated the Knicks.

He still hates the Knicks....

[rkmsuf]

the only explanation is that the knicks are trying to lose for an extended period of time

[hoosiergoody]

just as long as the "brains" at IU don't think of replacing Davis with him... when folks want "one of our own," I am CERTAIN that this guy isn't THE guy they are thinking of!!!

[sovereignstar]

So the deadline is fast approaching. Any rumors? Any way that the Knicks could bring Cuttino Mobley aboard?

[Anthony]

Jamal Crawford is likely on his way out. he polled reporters and they mentioned he was likely to go to Denver. if i had to guess i'm thinking Crawford for Kenyon Martin and his constantly injured body just might happen.

[chris3627]

"In him, we have added a veteran that could help us in many areas, and assist with our young players' development."

Didn't Shaq just say this weekend they should trade Francis cause D Howard would never develop properly if he isn't getting the ball? and from the same article....

[quote]
where Thomas is willing to try almost anything to reverse the fortunes of a team that has failed to meet even the lowest of expectations
[quote]

is he even trying? it's a joke with him cause you can find 50 people on this board right now who could do a better job than he has. I read earlier today where his grand plan is to try to accumulate these "assets" to get Garnett over the summer. Why would Minn take any of these players? I don't think they are as dumb as Thomas.

How long till Starbury and Disenfranchised are fighting to bring the ball up so they can stand outside the center circle and dribble it till there are 2 seconds left on the shot clock, when one of the them has to launch a 25 footer? The Knicks now need to add some combo of Ruben Patterson, Ron Artest, Baron Davis or Danny Fortson and then Isiah can walk away and say "this team is now complete" while Larry Brown goes off searching for a noose.

[ThunderingHERD]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/060224

Simmons: So you like what Isiah has done?

Layden: Hell, yeah. Take the Francis trade, if it happens: Logically, it makes no sense because Francis and Marbury are the same player -- expensive, shoot-first point guards with huge entourages and attitude problems who have never won anything. Even if you're getting Francis for nothing, it still makes no sense on paper.

For example, let's say you spent $3,000 on a living room sofa two years ago that you didn't really like. To make the sofa stand out a little less, you bought a leather chair for $2,200 that doesn't match --.

Simmons: Marbury is the sofa and Jamal Crawford is the chair in this case?

Layden: Precisely. And the room still looks bad. So now, you're on Craigslist and you see that someone is selling another $3,000 sofa for $900 that's almost exactly like the sofa you have. And there's no way you would ever want two big, ugly sofas in the same room. It would just look ridiculous. But your mind-set is, "Hey, how can I turn down a $3,000 sofa for $900?" So you buy the sofa and stick it in the room, which is now cluttered with stuff since you also spent another $10,000 on some crummy art, a coffee table with support problems, two giant bookcases that have to be turned sideways, some wobbly end tables and a smashed sculpture that was patched back together with duct tape. But since it's too late to go back, you spend another $5,000 on an interior decorator to make the room work. Well, you know what would happen? He wouldn't be able to make it work. You bought too much crap.

See, this is why Isiah is a genius: He's assembling the basketball version of that nightmare living room, and he has the fans convinced that either the expensive interior decorator -- in this case, Larry Brown -- will be able to make everything work, or he can somehow swap some of that furniture to one of his neighbors for a first-class piece of art. And he's spending an ungodly amount of money! And you never hear rumors that he might get fired! I think it's a tribute to him and his staff. He's the best-ever at being an atrocious GM. He really is.

[Gary Gorski]

BRILLIANT!

[SunDevil]

Penny waived by the magic today.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

BRILLIANT!

Gary just wanted to add that I will be buying your TPB game for the simple fact that I think I can be a better GM than Isiah.

Do not know if you have the sales data, but it would be interesting to see what your sales are like after every Isiah trade or signing. He might be owed a thank you card.

[stevew]

That is probably the funniest Simmons column I've ever read.

[sterlingice]

Agreed. His downtrodden Boston schtick has since gotten tired but that was some quality stuff about the NBA, mainly because there wasn't anything about Boston (except tangentially). Not only that but no stupid references to pop culture garbage. When I look at ESPN, I don't care what crap he saw on tv last night or what celeb gossip he saw on the internet or stuff that's all one big inside joke to him that no one else cares about or his "posse" who I don't know, I want sports. For chrissakes, he had to create a glossary to help people keep up with all his personal references. That column was almost purely sports and a really fun read.

SI