FOFC Movie Club, Jan. Discussion: Chinatown

[cthomer5000]

Alright boyz, here we go... the innaugural discussion thread for the FOFC Movie Club.

The January selection was Roman Polanski's Chinatown (IMDB link).

In order to try to get some real discussion going about the movie, I thought about it and came up with a few questions to try spur things along. I absolutely encourage to bring up anything else they'd like to discuss as well, and also would like to hear people's general thoughts on how much they liked the film or specific elements of it.


Some points for discussion:

• Despite the fact the movie is called Chinatown, within the movie Chinatown is almost exclusively symbolic. In your opinion, what does it symbolize?

• What is your interpretataion of the the movies view towards goverment, authority, beauracracy, etc?

• There seems to be a recurring theme relating to vision or "seeing things" (and not just in the literal sense). What do you think fits into that theme and what does it ultimately say about any characters or the movie as a whole?

• General Thoughts: Did you like the movie? Like or dislike anything in particular? Performances, the script, direction, music, etc?

[cthomer5000]

So... am i alone on this one?

[duckman]

I'll post my thoughts either tonight or tomorrow. It's a little crazy right now.

[Anthony]

LOL. this is funny. it's like everyone told ct "hey, Johnny Cool is having a party at his house and you're invited" and ct was like "really, Johnny Cool invited....me??". so ct goes to Johnny's house in his "hippest clothes", ready for a nite of great conversation after rehearsing some funny little quips and witty anecdotes, rings the doorbell and no one answers. after about 15 minutes of standing outside ("maybe they can't hear the doorbell?" he says) everyone drives by, stops and laughs and points at ct.

awwwww....ct.

[cthomer5000]

I'm waiting for Ashton Kutcher to post and tell me that i've bene punked.

It really sucks because I ended up having to go out and buy the freakin' DVD. Don't let me down here guys!

[Radii]

I'll see if I can rescue this a little!

[*]Despite the fact the movie is called Chinatown, within the movie Chinatown is almost exclusively symbolic. In your opinion, what does it symbolize?

Well, whenever there were references to Chinatown(and they really seemed totally random to me) they were always references to danger, lawlessness and corruption. The cop(Escobar) and the ex-cop(Gittes) seemed to both have a reverence for each other simply by the fact that they survived working in Chinatown. Honestly(and some naivete on my part is going to come out here) I really didn't see a great connection here, or see why there was a strong enough tie to Chinatown to make this the title of the movie, except of course where it ended.

What is your interpretataion of the the movies view towards goverment, authority, beauracracy, etc?

There is a pretty clear line of corruption here, of people in positions of power in government(even over 'smaller' parts of government like the water services) easily becoming corrupt and using any and all power they have for personal gain. There's also a... mafia-esque... theme of these people in power using violence and murder without much trouble if anyone gets in the way of their personal gain. Gittes, as a private investigator, is going to have a natural distrust for people to begin with, but that distrust grows stronger and stronger as the movie goes on, with good reason as it turns out.

There seems to be a recurring theme relating to vision or "seeing things" (and not just in the literal sense). What do you think fits into that theme and what does it ultimately say about any characters or the movie as a whole?

I was never good at reading into books that i read in high school at this level either, always got bad grades in English as a result, but, uhhh, there are some literal examples of vision like finding the guy's bifocals in the salt water pool in the back yard, and in general I would point out Gittes' perception in figuring out the mystery, both the personal one w/ the Mulwray/Cross families and the water scheme in the government. I can't really offer a ton here.

General Thoughts: Did you like the movie? Like or dislike anything in particular? Performances, the script, direction, music, etc?

I'm not very picky, I don't usually pick apart scenes for realism or authenticity in a movie, if it tells a good story, then I'm entertained and happy. I end up liking a lot more movies than most people here because of that, but yeah, I liked this movie, it was entertaining and it told a good story. It certainly has a timeless quality, even though it was made 30 years ago I didn't feel like I was watching a 'classic' movie just to say I watched it, I was actually watching a good movie. Honestly I don't really see the huge connection to Chinatown other than the random chance that the last scene took place there and a few random comments by Gittes and Escobar about Chinatown, those references just seemed out of place and forced into the movie, so I guess there's something that I just don't 'get' about it. There's probably some big piece of symbolism or something that I just totally missed here.

As someone who doesn't watch a lot of old movies, it was interesting to see the old Jack Nicholson. There was one scene in the movie when Nicholson's charater slaps Evelyn Mulwary around when he learns of her sister/daughter when he yells at her "I want the truth!" and I couldn't help but picture her yelling back at him "You want the truth!? You can't handle the truth!" .. but anyway, yeah, good movie.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I'm waiting for Ashton Kutcher to post and tell me that i've bene punked.

It really sucks because I ended up having to go out and buy the freakin' DVD. Don't let me down here guys!

I'm just waiting for Netflix to send me the movie. It was shipped today so I should have it on Wed. or Thu.

[thesloppy]

Sorry ct, I saw the thread earlier, but I'm in the exact same position as Bearcat, as luck would have it this has been Netflix's slowest turnaround and I probably won't have the movie in my grubby little hands until tomorrow, and may not have the time to watch it for a day or two after that.

But once I watch it I'll TOTALLY write up a bitchin' three-word review.

[Bad-example]

Just a thought, but this project might have more legs...and participants...if the movie selections were limited to movies currently playing or soon to play on premium cable.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Just a thought, but this project might have more legs...and participants...if the movie selections were limited to movies currently playing or soon to play on premium cable.

On that note, Chinatown will be on HBO2 January 25, 9:30am PST.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

On that note, Chinatown will be on HBO2 January 25, 9:30am PST.

Thanks. I will watch it on the 25th and post a few thoughts soon after.

[Karlifornia]

I rented Chinatown yesterday, and I will post my thoughts on Thursday...I meant to get it earlier, bt my wallet AND car were stolen within three days of each other, so I've been sort of shorthanded.....I can't wait to watch it, though....

[korme]

Next time I go to Blockbuster (soon) I will rent this movie.

[ThunderingHERD]

Saw it when I was like 15 and don't remember much except not being very impressed, given all the hype. Will try to see it soon and weigh in from a more mature perspective.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

• Despite the fact the movie is called Chinatown, within the movie Chinatown is almost exclusively symbolic. In your opinion, what does it symbolize?

This is referenced a number of times throughout the movie, and in referring to a couple of characters, both Jake Gittes and the detective who he used to work with (in Chinatown). I don’t think there’s one right answer here, but it seems to reference some sort of big mistake, or danger, or corruption, or all of the above. The one quote I think makes it clear is when he’s talking to Ms. Mowry, and she’s asking him what happened in Chinatown and he says something along the lines of “I tried to prevent someone I cared about from being hurt, and that’s exactly what ended up happening.”



Basically I think it boils down to Jake not being quite as slick as he thinks he is. He’s told earlier in the movie that “you think you know what’s going on, but you don’t” and he laughs saying that his old boss told him that in Chinatown. I think it drives home the point that he made a mistake then, and is headed for one now. We see him make a few errors in judgment later that ultimately end up being tragic.



I think the movie ages extremely well and there are solid performances all around. I also think the “You know what happens to nosey fellas?” scene is a movie classic.

[cthomer5000]

Bueller? Bueller? Ferris Bueller?

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Next time I go to Blockbuster (soon) I will rent this movie.

Let me know if you were able to get it. We checked several Blockbusters in our area and none of them had it. I'm curious to see if it's all Blockbusters or just the ones here.

[cthomer5000]

My Blockbuster didn't have it either, FWIW. They used to have it on VHS, I know that for a fact, but they don't have it on DVD.

[Bubba Wheels]

The sequel is called, I believe, The Two Jakes. Never have seen it.

[Karlifornia]

Well, guys. Blockbuster sucks. Find a less chain-style video store. Every somewhat major city should have at least one non-Blockbuster video store that carries, if not a better selection, a different one.

[Flasch186]

missed out, went on vaca. sorry

[oliegirl]

We watched this, but I was pretty unimpressed by it. It was interesting but I didn't think it was as great and wonderful as everyone (critics and film list people) make it out to be. Nicholson is amazing (as he is in almost everything he does) but the story was just eh and I thought overall it was just an eh movie.

[duckman]

One of the problems with the movie is that the story didn't maintain the tension. It seemed to cycle through instead of building until the very end.

Despite that, I thought the camera work was top notch and Jack Nicholson was simply riveting.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Chinatown will be on HBO2 January 25, 9:30am PST.

Just a heads up for those that were unable or unwilling to rent the dvd. It is actually playing at 12:30 pm here, so check your listings.

[Qwikshot]

Just a heads up, I saw Chinatown for sale at Walmart for 7.50.

[Bad-example]

Doh! I ended up driving my dad around for a large part of the day and was unable to get back in time to watch. It was supposed to be a quick trip to the store but turned into an a major excursion.

[cthomer5000]

worst. club. ever.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

worst. club. ever.

LOL....i am enjoying your embarassment over getting so excited over this club. i was entertained.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

LOL....i am enjoying your embarassment over getting so excited over this club. i was entertained.

What the hell do I have to be embarassed about?

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

worst. club. ever.

I think it's worth one more try - but with maybe a more recent movie that people will have a better chance of finding at Blockbuster, or that NetFlix will have a better chance of having more copies of.

FWIW, we use the Blockbuster mail servce, $14.99 a month for 2 movies at a time, unlimited rentals each month...AND you get 2 coupons for free rentals in store each month, and they can be used for movies or games. By the time you use the coupons, the membership is only costing you about $3 or $4 a month. They are running a free trial right now for those that are interested.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I think it's worth one more try - but with maybe a more recent movie that people will have a better chance of finding at Blockbuster, or that NetFlix will have a better chance of having more copies of.

I think for most of us that were interested though, this kind of defeats the entire purpose of the club. I think we were looking more for off-the-beaten-path types of movies that a lot of people don't watch.

Ultimately I don't care. Discussing movies is fun, but if no one else wants to, i'm not going to take it personally or anything.

[thesloppy]

This is the best club ever goddamnit.

I finally received and watched Chinatown...and then I got sick and forgot about movie club while I was recycling my meals.

I've seen bits and pieces of the movie for the last twenty years, but hadn't given it serious attention in the ten years since I'd seen it originally, and although I remembered an outline of the plot I'd forgotten all of the details that make Chinatown classic, and it was refereshing to give it a thorough watching. SOOPER AWESOME FOFC MOVIE CLUB worked for me, and it can work for you too.

To me the things that stuck out the most were the cast, the dialog, and the sets. As mentioned by others before me, Nicholson nails this part completely and it's not too surprising to hear that the part was written specifically for him. I have never, ever understood if I'm actually supposed to be attracted to Faye Duniway. I'm not, but I like her in this role, as she pulls off that odd, affected accent typical of early Hollywood noir that Chinatown is either mimicking or parodying. I was really struck by the sets, and really all of the production values...the setting was hardly epic in scale, but every tiny detail, both inside and out, led me to believe I was in '30s Los Angeles. Polanski was great in front of the camera too, as the 'midget' with the knife who cuts Nicholson and keeps calling him 'kitty cat'.

Despite the fact the movie is called Chinatown, within the movie Chinatown is almost exclusively symbolic. In your opinion, what does it symbolize?

I'm not much for decoding, or even recognizing symbolism, but I agree with Radii that Chinatown seems to be representative of corruption and lawlessness, and in a sense the failue of the Gittes character to persevere over that corruption.

What is your interpretataion of the the movies view towards goverment, authority, beauracracy, etc?

Now this I can analyze, as Chinatown was hardly subtle with it's message: money and power corrupt, that corruption is deep and absolute, and any single man or woman who attempts to stand up and challenge that power will be chewed up and spit out. Presumably that's what happened to Gittes in Chinatown, and that's what happens to him when faced with the equally foreign and corrupt surroundings of the rich and powerful.

There seems to be a recurring theme relating to vision or "seeing things" (and not just in the literal sense). What do you think fits into that theme and what does it ultimately say about any characters or the movie as a whole?

Meh? Got me.

General Thoughts: Did you like the movie? Like or dislike anything in particular? Performances, the script, direction, music, etc?

Yup, I thought it was great. I thought it was very well done, it seemed like Polanski directed with a relatively light touch and let the sets and the cast do all of the heavy-lifting and I thought it really paid off. I can understand how people could find the plot boring, but it maintained enough tension for me, and even though I knew the 'big twist' from previous viewings I had forgotten all of the details behind the water caper and it kept me interested throughout.