Dead or Alive 4 Thoughts

[Izulde]

This is X-posted at the OOTP boards in OT, just for advance notice in case anyone decides to bitch. I just wanted to share my impressions with both groups of people on my main message boards.

Got the last XBox 360 in town tonight. Thankfully it was a Platinum or I still wouldn't have a 360.

Also picked up DoA 4 and here are my initial impressions on it after unlocking Lei Fang, Ayane, and Brad Wong's endings and messing around a little with Bayman:

-I'm disappointed that Helena doesn't have a Story Mode. While I'm sure she's an unlockable character for every other mode, she was my favourite character in the series, though I can see why from a storyline standpoint that they didn't include her.

-Jann Lee is still overpowered like he was in DoA 2 and 3. I hate fighting him, though it's helluva fun to fight *as* him.

-Christie got a huge power boost and is now one of the strongest characters in the game. She wasn't nearly this powerful in DoA 3. I do like her first costume though.

-Ayane, who used to be one of the top characters in the game, took a drastic cut in power. She's no longer near the powerhouse that she was in the earlier iterations of the DoA series, which I'm actually glad to see. Her Story Mode wasn't a cakewalk this time around like it has been before and one match in particular was extremely challenging, as in it took me into the double-digit tries to beat it. That being said, she's still a strong character overall and a perfect choice for a beginner.

-Brad Wong sucked in DoA 3, and he isn't much better in DoA 4. He *is* improved though, and in the right hands, his Drunken Style is a surprisingly deadly art form. In the tinkering around I did in Survival Mode, he was the one I did the best with. Though I'll have to go through some of the other characters in the game first, right now I'd put him at the low end in power.

-The old man, Gen Fu, is gone from Story Mode, which strangely disappoints me. My buddy and I who play fighting games a lot affectionally called him "Old Slow Dude" and mocked each other when one of us beat the other with him or lost to the CPU version of him. His apprentice, Eliot, is in here as his replacement, and he looks like a faster, more powerful version of Gen Fu from first impressions. I'd rather have Gen Fu back though, cuz the kid seems to be a little lacking in personality, even if he's a much more powerful version of Old Slow Dude and is probably midpack in terms of these fighters, certainly above Brad Wong for the average player I'd say.

-Bayman to me has always been one of the most underrated fighters in the game. Most of the people I know tend to overlook him as not that good, but in my opinion, he was actually damn good. He seems to be a little bit stronger in 4 than he was in 3. Enough to challenge Jann Lee and Christie as my current powerhouses? No, but enough to be in the second tier.

-Bass is significantly faster in this version than he was in 3. This takes him from being one of the worst fighters in the game to something approaching respectability. Granted, he's still not as fast as the rest of the roster, but the gap has narrowed considerably, making for much, much better gameplay balance.

-Tina also seems to have benefitted from a power boost, though it's nowhere near as drastic as what they gave to Christie. Even with the upgrade though, I'd still consider Tina one of the weaker fighters. She's not really much faster than Papa Bass and she's nowhere near as powerful as he is. But hey, at least one of the wrestling father-daughter duo moves up in the rankings.

-Lei Fang has never been one of the best fighters, but she's always been a personal favourite of mine because she's quicker than most people want to give her credit for. She's always been a minor character in the DoA series storyline and that doesn't change here, nor does her ranking as one of the lowest fighters. Her ending is also my favourite of the three I've unlocked so far.

First Post Jestor Dead or Alive 4 Power Rankings:

Powerhouses:
Jann Lee
Christie

Good But Not Great:
Bayman
Ayane

Middle of the Pack:
Bass
Eliot

Below Average:
Brad Wong

Suckitude:
Tina
Lei Fang

Note: The rankings are subject to change as I play the game more and take a closer look, both at the characters I've played and those I haven't yet got around to. These are just cursory first impressions.

[Karlifornia]

This makes me wonder if I should direct this thread to the console games forum, or if I should lobby for the console games forum to be eliminated.


As far as this game goes, I know naahhhhthing

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by RadioFriendlyUnitShifter

This makes me wonder if I should direct this thread to the console games forum, or if I should lobby for the console games forum to be eliminated.


As far as this game goes, I know naahhhhthing

I'd vote for the latter. After all, you have first impressions threads on PC games in General Discussions and the forum you're indicating is allegedly for both PC *and* console games.... so why not just get rid of it since everyone is just posting them here anyway?

That being said, here's the next update for this thread

Played through Kasumi and Jann Lee's endings and have a few more comments to make.

-Kasumi: Holy hell! I rated her as middle of the pack in DoA 2 and 3 but did she ever get a huge upgrade in one area in this game: Speed. She's the fastest fighter in the whole game and we're talking so fast she makes Ayane and the other ninjas look slow as old school Bass in comparison. Also only the one fighter that can give Jan Lee fits. I mean hot damn! Her ending's hot too and I do mean hot. On the other hand, speed is only her asset. Neutralize her speed and she's toast, unlike some of the others who still have other options even if their speed is shut down. So because she's one-dimensional, I'll put her in Good, But Not Great. She's finally equal to Ayane. This also makes sense from a storyline perspective that she's amped up by the way, but I won't get into that just now.

-Jann Lee, as I noted in the first post, is still overpowered. In fact, the only problem I had at all during his Story Mode was with Kasumi as her speed was able to occasionally blaze past his excellent all-around superiority. But yeah, one person out of the entire roster can give him fits? Pfft, he's so one of the Powerhouses still and I don't see that changing.

-I'm still wondering how the hell Zack won the DoA 3 tournament according to the storyline. Yeah, they needed to put that in for the DoA:EBV storyline to happen, but shit... Zack was one of the weaker fighters in DoA 3, and he looks equally weak here. Because I don't like him, I'm going to put him in the bottom rung for now, but he's liable to move up.

Jestor's Post 2 Dead or Alive 4 Power Rankings:

Powerhouses:
Jann Lee
Christie

Good But Not Great:
Bayman
Ayane
Kasume

Middle of the Pack:
Bass
Eliot

Below Average:
Brad Wong

Suckitude:
Tina
Lei Fang
Zack

[Izulde]

After getting through Tina, Christie, and Kokoro's endings, there's been a slight shakeup from my original ratings

-It appears I've underestimated Tina's speed and power both. I breezed right through her Story Mode with little difficulty. Granted her level of opponents that I faced wasn't the strongest, but still, she gets a huge upgrade from Suckitude up to at least Middle of the Pack. Granted, she may fall and she may move up, but I don't think she'll fall back to Suckitude. She's become that much better in my eyes.

-Christie still qualifies as a Powerhouse, She's quick, powerful, and has excellent range, but the difference between her and Jann Lee seems wider than I thought it was. Also in need of further study.

-Kokoro is one of the new additions to the roster and I have to say she's better than what I thought she'd be. When I was up against her, I wasn't too impressed with her, but then playing her in Story Mode, I noticed she was more powerful and had better range than I'd first realized. For the moment, she's Middle of the Pack.

-Zack is permanently stuck in Suckitude. He stinks and stinks so bad I wish he'd gotten kicked off the roster. He's always sucked and I hate him. Though his increased lameness fits in extremely well with the storyline.

-Lei Fang is also solidly in Suckitude. She's one of my favourite characters yeah, but she's just really weak compared to the rest of the roster.

-Bayman seems a lot lower-powered than I'd originally anticipated. In fact, he seems so underpowered that I'm dropping him to Below Average for now and he may even drop into Suckitude.

-Eliot also drops to Below Average. He's still better than Gen Fu was in earlier iterations, but the more I see of him, the more I view him as a pushover.

Powerhouses:
Jann Lee
Christie

Good but not Great:
Ayane
Kasumi

Middle of the Pack:
Bass
Kokoro
Tina

Below Average:
Brad Wong
Bayman
Eliot

Suckitude:
Lei Fang
Zack

[Eaglesfan27]

I don't really enjoy fighting games too much (because I usually get beat easily in them) but you are piqueing my interest. I almost asked for this for my birthday.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I don't really enjoy fighting games too much (because I usually get beat easily in them) but you are piqueing my interest. I almost asked for this for my birthday.

Glad to hear it. I confess the Soul Caliber series as being my favourite, but Dead or Alive series is right behind and some days overtakes SC, both because of better graphics and because I'm better at it.

I'll have another update either today or tomorrow, as I've gone through some more endings and had the usual marathon match session against a buddy of mine tonight.

[Eaglesfan27]

On Gamespot, they mentioned a glitch in which some copies of the game erase your save data. A patch is supposed to be forthcoming, but I just thought I'd warn you. Here is a link to the article:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_bl...ic_id=24198870

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

On Gamespot, they mentioned a glitch in which some copies of the game erase your save data. A patch is supposed to be forthcoming, but I just thought I'd warn you. Here is a link to the article:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_bl...ic_id=24198870

Ouch. Thanks for the info. Thus far I haven't had any problems. *knocks on wood*

[Izulde]

Bass, Bayman, Hayate, and La Mariposa's endings all unlocked in Story Mode, plus my buddy and I had our usual marathon match session tonight (I won 35-12 in our first half, then he accidentally exited and we started over, during which second half I won 34-13 before heading open).

Hence, quite a few observations to make.

-Bass's speed upgrade from DoA 3 is definitely confirmed and is as strong as I initially reported. So therefore, it looks like he's staying Middle of the Pack because the gap is still too great between him and the rest of the roster speedwise for him to jump to the next level.

-Bayman I'm a little torn on. In Story Mode, he showed enough power and toughness that I almost moved him back up to Middle of the Pack, but during the marathon session, his slowness was greatly exposed and he frequently got his ass handed to him. So I'll leave him where he is.

-The first few times people play with Hayate, he looks really good. That was my impression of him in Story Mode and that was my buddy's impression in the marathon, but then, after you play him longer, you start to realize that he was constructed as an all-around character, but in this case, all-around means not that good at anything. He's got the slowest speed of all the ninja characters and is also slower than a lot of the non-ninjas as well. He's got pretty good range, but mediocre power and he's just overall blah. So blah in fact, that he actually sucks relative to everyone else.

-La Mariposa is fast, blazing fast. She's got power too. In terms of speed, she ranks up there with Ayane and Kasumi and she's got good range and surpisingly good toughness. In fact, I consider her the third Powerhouse. She's just that good. Both my buddy and I were at least good with her, and our longest win streaks against each other came from her.

-Ayane, Kasumi and Tina, La Mariposa are two sets closely related to each other in story and in design. Ayane and Kasumi are meant to be faster, whereas La Mariposa and Tina are supposed to be more powerful, but all four are designed to be equivalent to each other. It's a beautiful attempt at game balance and for the most part, I'd say it works, but there's definite degrees.

-Tina is an example of the degree. As she was played in the marathon session, I couldn't help but think she wasn't as good as my second estimation of her was. She didn't seem as fast this time for some reason, although she was still passable.

-Ayane checks out as I orignally slated her. Underpowered compared to 3, but still one of the better fighters.

-Kasumi is still the fastest character in the game, even though Ayane and La Mariposa aren't far behind her. Unfortunately she isn't powerful enough or adaptable enough to break the Jann Lee-Christie-La Mariposa circuit.

-Jann Lee didn't look as strong as he originally did in the marathon session, but he was still clearly a cut above the second tier.

-Christie looked every bit as good as before and so she keeps her spot.

-Brad Wong got a few victories here and there, but he's clearly one of the weaker characters in the game. In fact, much to my regret, he drops to the lowest level. In the right hands, he can be good, but overall, he's just... bad.

-Lei Fang made a decent showing, enough that I feel justified in flipflopping her and Brad. She's got speed that's in the upper tiers of the roster, and appears to have a little more power than I'd anticipated.

-Zack sucks. Zack is still the worst fighter on the roster. He's got speed and agility, I'll admit, but his power is abysmally low.

-In the grand tradition of his mentor, Gen Fu, Eliot got a nickname from my buddy and I. We nicknamed him "Idiot Boy" and I actually ran off an impressive win streak with Idiot Boy, causing much humiliation for my friend. Despite the victory tally though, I haven't seen enough to convince me he should be moved one way or the other.

-Hayabusa is fast, how fast I'm still not sure, but I'd place him probably below La Mariposa. He probably belongs in the second tier, but I'm going to play it safe and put him mid-pack for now.

-Kokoro looked weaker in the marathon session than originally advertised, so I'll slide her down a notch. While she has a lot of similarities in fighting style to Jann Lee, or so it appears, he's a master and she's only an apprentice (though an apprentice geisha )

Powerhouses:
Jann Lee
Christie
La Mariposa

Good but Not Great:
Ayane
Kasumi

Middle of the Pack:
Bass
Tina
Hayabusa

Below Average:
Bayman
Eliot
Kokoro
Lei Fang

Suckitude:
Zack
Brad Wong
Hayate

15 of 16 starting characters rated thus far. Hitomi is the only one I haven't because although she's one of my favourite characters in the game, I haven't beaten her Story Mode and we didn't get around to playing her enough in the marathon session to get a good read on her.

[Izulde]

Just played through all the Story Modes, including the one unlockable one... and man, am I ever dropping my jaw in shock.

I don't know if there'll be a DoA 5 or not... If they do, they'll need to start a brand new story arc... but I just have to say... this was a fucking mindblowing and damn BEAUTIFUL way to end this story arc!

Wow, what an incredible presentation! And for those of you who get the game and get to this point (by beating the unlockable's Story Mode) keep watching through the credits because there's a crucial scene after the credits finish rolling.

Man, what an amazing ending... Just amazing. Of course, you need to have played 2 and 3 as well to fully appreciate the ending I think.

Just incredible. Wow.

[Izulde]

Into the unlockable characters now and extra costumes now... Only one character left unlock... My hand hurts now though after punching the television screen in anger, trying to unlock a costume for one of the unlockable characters in Time Trial mode.

Time Trial is a ****ing bitch by the way. You have to beat Alpha-152 TWICE.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Dead or Alive 3 was the first game I ever got for my XBox a few years ago. I've played SoulCalibur 2, also. I know this thread is about DOA4, but here's what I'm getting at: Somebody plays a fighting game for the story?

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Dead or Alive 3 was the first game I ever got for my XBox a few years ago. I've played SoulCalibur 2, also. I know this thread is about DOA4, but here's what I'm getting at: Somebody plays a fighting game for the story?

Nope. I'd buy and play DoA 4 even if it wasn't for the story. The smooth combat system, relative gameplay balance among characters (though there is a definite gradient of levels that I've been defining, the gap between them really isn't all that significant, which is a good thing), lush visuals, and great multi-tiered stages would have me buying it anyway.

However, since it's there, I'm going to include it as part of my critiques. I do like the story and I love how they wrapped up the events from 2 and 3 in the final of endings, and solved quite a few mysteries that have been bugging me all series long.

Oh and DoA: EBV is a fluff game to most, and most probably don't consider it part of the storyline, but in fact, it's the bridge between 3 and 4. As evidence that it's part of the continuity, the manual specifically references what happened in DoA:EBV in Zack's bio (Man do I hate that guy) and for those who have played DoA:EBV and have DoA 4, go into Theatre Mode and look at the title of La Mariposa's ending. You'll be pleasantly surprised. (Of course that little tidbit opened up more questions for me)