The 2 greatest innovations in text sims

Dekanth · 12-26-2005, 10:04 PM

1) Conference Movement in FBCB. Granted, conference changes are unique to collegiate sports in the United States, but this option in FBCB gives you additional goals to strive for, allows you to take a very bad team and rise through the ranks without having to change teams, in a (virtual) realistic way. Whether you like the way it was implemented or not, it is unique to the genre (outside of CM/FM, which is vital to the sport). No other college game (or pro, could be a fun option) has attempted to duplicate this.

2) Expansion in FOF. I still miss this this and hope that one day it returns to the FOF series. Who didn't quick sim to the first round of expansion and take over an expansion team.

A distant third would be the almost unlimited customization of the OOTP series. It is crazy how varied you can make a league in its size, rules, length of season, stats, etc... Just wished more of the functions worked as advertised.

What do you guys think are some great text sim innovations?

Eaglesfan27 · 12-26-2005, 10:08 PM

The 2-D display first done in CM/FM.

I (still) dream of an American Football game doing this.

Anthony · 12-26-2005, 10:22 PM

i agree with all of these. maybe add in the deep media aspect of the FM series, as well as the sophisticated personality models of the players of FM.

vex · 12-26-2005, 10:51 PM

Multiplayer.

21C · 12-26-2005, 10:54 PM

I'm saying this one because I'm old . . . but I think the addition of a career option. I remember text sims where you only simmed a season based on last season's stats or a programmer's ratings of players.

The ability to sim into the future and create your own universe is the single biggest thing ever for me - but something we take for granted these days.

ThunderingHERD · 12-26-2005, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dekanth

1) Conference Movement in FBCB. Granted, conference changes are unique to collegiate sports in the United States, but this option in FBCB gives you additional goals to strive for, allows you to take a very bad team and rise through the ranks without having to change teams, in a (virtual) realistic way. Whether you like the way it was implemented or not, it is unique to the genre (outside of CM/FM, which is vital to the sport). No other college game (or pro, could be a fun option) has attempted to duplicate this.

I hated the way this worked in FBCB. Conferences were unrecognizable after only a few years. Also, hasn't the NCAA Football series had this for at least a few years?

RPI-Fan · 12-26-2005, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

I hated the way this worked in FBCB. Conferences were unrecognizable after only a few years. Also, hasn't the NCAA Football series had this for at least a few years?

The normal conference movement is a bit over-the-top (pretty much like soccer leagues in Europe). However, it was soon patched with a "Limited" option, where only the very best teams at a given level move up, and this seems to produce really interesting scenarios.

Buccaneer · 12-27-2005, 09:40 AM

I agree with #1. It has added a whole new dimension to my on-going FBCB career. But I would say the real innovation that FBCB brought was the immense "one-more-turn" feel for text sims.

And I would agree with #2 with the clarification of being able to load in the Lahman database. No other innovations besides these 2 have ever added so much fun these past 2-3 years.

twothree · 12-27-2005, 10:25 AM

1) I agree with 21C. Career options, including player development.

2) The ability to customize the number of teams, divisions, aligmnments, schedules, and playoff structure is easily my number two. Sadly, many text sims still don't let you do this (CM/FM and FOF as examples). Though, I remember FPS: Football, being a blast to play because of this.

Icy · 12-27-2005, 10:58 AM

Player personalities in CM/FM and after than in all the SI games like EHM and the future OOTP. That is what makes you to feel that you're a real coach/gm in a real world, instead of just playing with stats and spreadsheets. I miss something like that in all the other sport sims. TPB added some of that and it's a welcome addition, but still too basic compared with FM. I'm glad that GDS is slowly trying to add that to their games.

Agree also as 2nd for career mode and player development, without it i wouldn't play sport sims as i have zero interest on replaying past seasons. That is the only reason i didn't buy the boxing sim from ootpdevelopments, i would die for a boxing sim with career mode.

Honolulu Blue · 12-27-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21C

The ability to sim into the future and create your own universe is the single biggest thing ever for me - but something we take for granted these days.

I guess I'm showing my age (again), because I agree with this.

My second would be what's known as "scouts' eyes", seeing ratings not as they are, but only through the eyes of an imperfect scout. I know FOF Classic had it, and I'm not sure any older career text sims had it.

st.cronin · 12-27-2005, 11:34 AM

If you want to go beyond the computer age, I would suggest that strat-o-matic's left/right splits was a massive innovation - there is no doubt that it influenced the sport itself.

LloydLungs · 12-27-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21C

I'm saying this one because I'm old . . . but I think the addition of a career option. I remember text sims where you only simmed a season based on last season's stats or a programmer's ratings of players.

The ability to sim into the future and create your own universe is the single biggest thing ever for me - but something we take for granted these days.

Yep. In 1990, if you'd handed me any game from today's era -- even Baseball Mogul -- there would not have been enough kleenex... I remind myself of this every time I find myself getting irritated with an annoying bug. Back then I was playing Haffner College Basketball and inventing a ridiculously rudimentary method of career play to go with it, wherein my team would sort of advance through the years and graduate players, but every other D-1 team would stay static. It was true desperation. Never take career play for granted!

JeffR · 12-27-2005, 11:59 AM

Even getting a single season to play was a big step forward. Most of the first-generation text sports games were translations of board games and had no built-in scheduling or record-keeping; all you could do was play single games. I remember APBA in particular staying like that for a long time, well into the 90's.

sabotai · 12-27-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21C

I'm saying this one because I'm old . . . but I think the addition of a career option. I remember text sims where you only simmed a season based on last season's stats or a programmer's ratings of players.

The ability to sim into the future and create your own universe is the single biggest thing ever for me - but something we take for granted these days.

Before getting a PC in the ealry 90's, my sports playing was limited to Gensis and SNES. When I got FBPro, I was blown away by the concept of college drafts and career play. Until the disaster of FBPro 99 and the dismantling of the FPS line, my sports playing was FPS games exclusively. After that died, I was even more surprised by the total lack of career play in the PC versions of Madden.

Ben E Lou · 12-27-2005, 04:44 PM

21C hit the nail on the head. Career mode was a quantum leap forward, and it is wayyyy beyond anything else. I've got three that are hard to separate in terms of large increases in my enjoyment of text sims. I list them in no particular order:

1. Conference Movement in FBCB. The "Limited" option for this is truly a thing of beauty.

2. Expansion in FOF. I couldn't WAIT to get to 2017 and take over a brand new team in a nearly-completely-pure (ie no original players) universe. Good times.

3. Stats for every player ever in FOF2K4. I'll never forget the sheer bliss the first time I looked at the "Career Statistics" screen. Yowza!

Darkiller · 12-27-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21C

I'm saying this one because I'm old . . . but I think the addition of a career option. I remember text sims where you only simmed a season based on last season's stats or a programmer's ratings of players.

The ability to sim into the future and create your own universe is the single biggest thing ever for me - but something we take for granted these days.

We have a winner.
That one thing (deep career mode) is the single greatest achievement in text-based sports sims.

Buccaneer · 12-27-2005, 06:35 PM

I missed the old days as in I didn't start playing these games until career mode was well established. Kinda took it for granted for I can't imagine playing a text sim without it.

Eaglesfan27 · 12-27-2005, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I missed the old days as in I didn't start playing these games until career mode was well established. Kinda took it for granted for I can't imagine playing a text sim without it.

Ditto. That is why I didn't even think of listing that as an innovative feature.

Marc Vaughan · 12-28-2005, 06:47 AM

For me my favourite addition was when player attributes stopped randomising at the end of each season - the first ever soccer sim randomised all player attributes at the end of a season, this made building a team impossible as your best player might be absolute crap the next year.

Quote:

My second would be what's known as "scouts' eyes", seeing ratings not as they are, but only through the eyes of an imperfect scout. I know FOF Classic had it, and I'm not sure any older career text sims had it.

I really like this feature - one day I've a feeling something similar might sneak into FM

Mac Howard · 12-28-2005, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

For me my favourite addition was when player attributes stopped randomising at the end of each season - the first ever soccer sim randomised all player attributes at the end of a season,

No it didn't

Maple Leafs · 12-28-2005, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dekanth

2) Expansion in FOF. I still miss this this and hope that one day it returns to the FOF series. Who didn't quick sim to the first round of expansion and take over an expansion team.

I really think FOF should make it easier to start as an expansion team. Ideally you could pick on team to eliminate and then start with a full expansion draft, etc. If that's too much to ask, it would still be nice to be able to pick a team and move them right at the start of the game. Sure, you can always change a team's name and even edit their city name, but if you want to actually run a career where, say, the NFL has moved to Toronto there's a huge amount of work involved in getting a franchise moved.

(Not to mention that FOF seems to include every US town with a population over 100, but nothing from Mexico or Canada despite those being two decent expansion candidates in the next few years.)

Marc Vaughan · 12-28-2005, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

No it didn't

Heh

There'll always be some debate debate over which text sim was first (sad to say but I don't think I played one of yours for quite a while Mac, sorry) .... anyway for me the first will always be the non-computer based game I created using dice, rules addapted from D&D and a subbuteo pitch

12-26-2005, 10:22 PM	#3
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	i agree with all of these. maybe add in the deep media aspect of the FM series, as well as the sophisticated personality models of the players of FM. Last edited by Anthony : 12-26-2005 at 10:23 PM.

12-27-2005, 10:58 AM	#10
Icy Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toledo - Spain	Player personalities in CM/FM and after than in all the SI games like EHM and the future OOTP. That is what makes you to feel that you're a real coach/gm in a real world, instead of just playing with stats and spreadsheets. I miss something like that in all the other sport sims. TPB added some of that and it's a welcome addition, but still too basic compared with FM. I'm glad that GDS is slowly trying to add that to their games. Agree also as 2nd for career mode and player development, without it i wouldn't play sport sims as i have zero interest on replaying past seasons. That is the only reason i didn't buy the boxing sim from ootpdevelopments, i would die for a boxing sim with career mode. Last edited by Icy : 12-27-2005 at 11:06 AM.

12-27-2005, 11:34 AM	#12
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	If you want to go beyond the computer age, I would suggest that strat-o-matic's left/right splits was a massive innovation - there is no doubt that it influenced the sport itself. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

12-27-2005, 04:44 PM	#16
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	21C hit the nail on the head. Career mode was a quantum leap forward, and it is wayyyy beyond anything else. I've got three that are hard to separate in terms of large increases in my enjoyment of text sims. I list them in no particular order: 1. Conference Movement in FBCB. The "Limited" option for this is truly a thing of beauty. 2. Expansion in FOF. I couldn't WAIT to get to 2017 and take over a brand new team in a nearly-completely-pure (ie no original players) universe. Good times. 3. Stats for every player ever in FOF2K4. I'll never forget the sheer bliss the first time I looked at the "Career Statistics" screen. Yowza! __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

12-26-2005, 10:08 PM	#2
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	The 2-D display first done in CM/FM. I (still) dream of an American Football game doing this. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen. Last edited by Eaglesfan27 : 12-26-2005 at 10:09 PM.

12-26-2005, 10:51 PM	#4
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	Multiplayer.

12-26-2005, 10:54 PM	#5
21C College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Newcastle, Australia	I'm saying this one because I'm old . . . but I think the addition of a career option. I remember text sims where you only simmed a season based on last season's stats or a programmer's ratings of players. The ability to sim into the future and create your own universe is the single biggest thing ever for me - but something we take for granted these days.

12-27-2005, 09:40 AM	#8
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I agree with #1. It has added a whole new dimension to my on-going FBCB career. But I would say the real innovation that FBCB brought was the immense "one-more-turn" feel for text sims. And I would agree with #2 with the clarification of being able to load in the Lahman database. No other innovations besides these 2 have ever added so much fun these past 2-3 years.

12-27-2005, 10:25 AM	#9
twothree College Prospect Join Date: May 2005	1) I agree with 21C. Career options, including player development. 2) The ability to customize the number of teams, divisions, aligmnments, schedules, and playoff structure is easily my number two. Sadly, many text sims still don't let you do this (CM/FM and FOF as examples). Though, I remember FPS: Football, being a blast to play because of this.

12-27-2005, 11:59 AM	#14
JeffR High School JV Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada	Even getting a single season to play was a big step forward. Most of the first-generation text sports games were translations of board games and had no built-in scheduling or record-keeping; all you could do was play single games. I remember APBA in particular staying like that for a long time, well into the 90's.

12-27-2005, 06:35 PM	#18
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I missed the old days as in I didn't start playing these games until career mode was well established. Kinda took it for granted for I can't imagine playing a text sim without it.

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