Poker: Collusion

[sabotai]

Has anyone else here been a victim of player collusion in a tournament? I just played a Sit N Go on PokerStars, and one of the players kept folding hands to his friend who was very short stacked. What's worse, the guy even admitted to it in chat! Basically the short stacked guy said "Help me out here" and the other said "I'm trying." They must have said similar things several times when it was down to 4.

So of course, this guy keeps his short stacked friend in the game and I get AA and go out 4th on a bad beat. Nice way to finish out my Sunday night.

(And yes, I emailed PokerStars and reported them.)

[cartman]

If they have it in chat, then those guys are pretty much screwed. All you can do is report it to support.

[kcchief19]

I've never run into anything that blatant. I've seen some very suspicious behavior that I have wondered if it was collusion, such as players making unusual losing all-in bets either early or late in the tournament to double someone up and improve their chip position. But nothing that I could link to collusion other than it smelled fishy.

[Barkeep49]

Wow, that's pretty incredible. I hope you've reported them and demanded your entry fee back.

[lytic]

Wow, I've been lucky enough to not have that happen to me so far.

[kingnebwsu]

I would seriously demand my money back...they'll give it to you, as shit like that can make a person quit a site permanently. I know I'd be royally pissed...btw, we having a FOFC event next Sunday?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by kingnebwsu

I would seriously demand my money back...they'll give it to you, as shit like that can make a person quit a site permanently. I know I'd be royally pissed...btw, we having a FOFC event next Sunday?

Why you wanna try and make a deal COLLUDER?

[Subby]

Last night I started three 25+2 turbos up at roughly the same time. On one table I had pocket kings and kind of lost track of it - saw I got raised and pushed. But...whoops...my 3rd tourney had started and popped up over my pocket kings window. So I actually pushed with 92s and lost to...ummm...QQ. So, I am sure it looked like chip dumping to others at the table. Or chimp dumping. Or I suck.

[MJ4H]

I've actually had worse. I had all the other players left in a SNG start talking about how I was folding every hand. They said they thought it was unfair and they began talking about how they would fold every hand to each other and try to beat me in every pot, even talking about what everyone else had right in chat ("don't call me, I've got him beaten" or "I've got a big draw, don't raise" after I had already called). I just calmly reported it and a site manager was at the table in a few minutes telling them to cut it out. I wasn't very happy with that solution, but it did stop.

I think a lot of players just don't understand that they are breaking one of the most fundamental rules of the game.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I had all the other players left in a SNG start talking about how I was folding every hand. They said they thought it was unfair

Unfair that you were folding? That's a new one to me.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Unfair that you were folding? That's a new one to me.

Believe me when I tell you it was a foreign concept to these guys.

[kcchief19]

On the lighter side of the sport, I was called an "Internet hothead" last night because some clown went all-in with A-high, no flush and no draw and I called him with two pairs kings and jacks. We'd played a few hands at this point and I knew the raiser had no clue what he was doing, so I was 99% sure I had the best hand.

The guy had me covered though and stayed in a few more hands until I raised him preflop with pocket kings then put him all-in after the flop came Q high. He called with Q6o and was done for the night and immediately went into the tirade about how Party Poker has a program that keeps you from winning if you've been on a roll and what an awful beat he just suffered.

Nothing really to do with collusion, but I thought it was darn funny.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

On the lighter side of the sport, I was called an "Internet hothead" last night because some clown went all-in with A-high, no flush and no draw and I called him with two pairs kings and jacks. We'd played a few hands at this point and I knew the raiser had no clue what he was doing, so I was 99% sure I had the best hand.

The guy had me covered though and stayed in a few more hands until I raised him preflop with pocket kings then put him all-in after the flop came Q high. He called with Q6o and was done for the night and immediately went into the tirade about how Party Poker has a program that keeps you from winning if you've been on a roll and what an awful beat he just suffered.

Nothing really to do with collusion, but I thought it was darn funny.

I love these guys.

I should take no satisfaction in beating them, but I must confess, I do.

[kcchief19]

Nothing is better than when somebody gets clobbered in a hand and starts going on about the site being rigged or complaining about all the "poker bots" at the table.

I stumbled on this recently when somebody went off about the "evidence" that online poker is rigged. The comments are hilarious. Here are a couple of my favorites:

hxxp://www.homepokergames.com/party.php

I complained sometime back about the Party poker site being fixed. I stand by it. I purchased poker tracker and installed it on my machine. Quite by accident, I was able to read in nearly all my past sessions: 6,000 to be precise. The results: The site is clearly rigged. Party poker handicaps the hands at the lower levels and aggression is rewarded (which also build bigger pts = bigger rakes = moremoney for party poker). Poker tracker provides user stats on other players. Guess what: there is a nearly 100% correlation between win rate and aggression (using the default measure provided with tracker). Now, you might argue, aggression is rewarded in Texas holdem. Well, if the starting hands dealt to the aggressive players are any indication, it certainly is rewarded.106 hands played over 125 minutes, 6 sessions: 2 winning hands. Taken in tandem with the 6,093 hands prevously played: over 85% of all the sessions were losing sessions. Intersting notes: I deposited $250 and played it down to 0. I figured something was definitely wrong so I started playing other places. No problem winning at Poker room, or in the simulator I was using. Just Party poker.Last month, I FOUND $20 in my party poker account. No bonus, just showed up. So I figured what the hell and started playing it. Playing .5/1.00 I amassed $147.00 in a litle over 2 days. Then I started losing..... and losing.... and losing....I don't like being screwed. So I bought Poker Tracker, put another $250 into Party Poker. And guess what, the losing continues.Simply stated: the worst fish, on the worst night of his life has to win something or he just gets bored and leaves.Average starting hand: 120. 6,000 hands. IT IS FIXED.

i am professional gam,bler played on party poker for 8 months it is most corrupt poker site ever seen bots on every table stay out fo side rooms especially $15'30 if there are 10 at table guaranteed 6 at party poker bots i kid you nto i documented over 400 cases finally had enough i was major player on there site so much as they refunded me over 3,000 jsut from me complaing of very strange hands per example one player hitting 4 4 of a kind in a row when i was at 30/60 table my advice is to stay way clear of party poker unless you jsut are casual gambler like $1/2 but anyhtng mroe and you can't win take it from me who bets over 2 million a yr you can email me i will be happy to tell your more mr rober ferguson is poker investigations knows me well take care im still looking for honest poker site cant find one also gaming poker and tiger poker also rigged.

Something else I forgot to mention, if you do a search on the players at the table with you on party poker, you will see that there is a very large majority of the people playing on 4 tables at the same time. This I find very strange, it is hard enough to play 1 table and keep track of other peoples play, etc, but 4 tables ? And its not just a few people its a large majority, and they are winners at most of these tables. Not only can they play 4 tables at the same time, they can also carry on extensive chats in the rooms, these people must be modern miracles of science, or are they PP Robots ? Do yourself a tremendous favor and don't play at these sites, I have actually felt rapped a

[Butter]

You'd think for 2 million a year that guy could get someone to type an intelligible message for him.

I recently lost my "free" $100 at Party Poker, and I can safely say without a doubt it's because I suck.

[albionmoonlight]

If I didn't lose all of the time at the live game that I play, I would blame my losing on the computer, too. Turns out that I am just a defective player.

Anyway, I don't play poker to make money (though it is a nice side effect). I play to enjoy myself.

I am still ahead online, but that is only through getting extremely lucky and getting a very generous knockout bonus from cartman in an FOFC tournament.

[Lathum]

Saboti, what was the outcome?

As alot of you knowe I used to play on pokerstars about 30-35 hours a week. I always did well. I started playing in alot of the $25 turbo sit and goes. I noticed alot of times there same 2-4 players in a few games, after a while it seemed obvious they were colluding and I reported it. Pokerstars basicly told me they couldn't prove it, etc... so I closed my account and now play at absolute, the software isn't as good at stars but the tournies have alot less people so it is easier to win and takes less time, they also have a nice bonus structure.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Saboti, what was the outcome?

As alot of you knowe I used to play on pokerstars about 30-35 hours a week. I always did well. I started playing in alot of the $25 turbo sit and goes. I noticed alot of times there same 2-4 players in a few games, after a while it seemed obvious they were colluding and I reported it. Pokerstars basicly told me they couldn't prove it, etc...

First response was the "we can't prove it" variety. But, the response did not say anything about the chat log and in my original email, I didn't say they talked about it (I assumed they would check the chat log as well). So I responded saying that they were talking and asking for help in the chat. No response to that yet but I doubt anything will come of it now.

EDIT: I used to play on Absolute but I canceled my account there the night they had a telemarketer call my house.

[Lathum]

Wow, what did the telemarketer say?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Wow, what did the telemarketer say?

Baiscally tried to get me to deposit more money. I think at the time I had taken all of my money (I didn't like the software so I stopped playing there)...or I might not have even deposited any yet. Either way, he tried to get me to deposit money into my account. I said no and deleted my account.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Baiscally tried to get me to deposit more money. I think at the time I had taken all of my money (I didn't like the software so I stopped playing there)...or I might not have even deposited any yet. Either way, he tried to get me to deposit money into my account. I said no and deleted my account.

lol, thats crazy. How long ago was this?

[Mr. Sparkle]

A few weeks back I had a strange thing occur while on PokerStars. One of the players at my sit n go would tell everyone in the game his cards via the chat, good hand or not. Obviously no one could tell when he folded if he was being honest, but when he won, the hand he showed was the one he said he had. I reported him because it was annoying but also because it did bring the integrity of the tourney into question, and after the tournament they emailed me back saying they had suspended his chat. The kicker is, they didn't do it because he was telling everyone his cards, but because when he got knocked out he went on a swearing rampage. I couldn't have given a shit about the swearing, but I guess the end result was the same.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Lathum

lol, thats crazy. How long ago was this?

About a year ago I think. Maybe not even that long.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by sabotai

About a year ago I think. Maybe not even that long.

i would go apeshit

[Barkeep49]

Sparkle: That sounds less like collusion and more like stupidity since everyone got the same info. What a strange thing to do.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

A few weeks back I had a strange thing occur while on PokerStars. One of the players at my sit n go would tell everyone in the game his cards via the chat, good hand or not. Obviously no one could tell when he folded if he was being honest, but when he won, the hand he showed was the one he said he had. I reported him because it was annoying

Why can't I find players like this? The game's a lot easier when you know someone's hole cards.

[Airhog]

Telling people what cards you have is a poker way of life. Of course, most of the time the person telling is lying

[kcchief19]

Can't you get throw out of a casino for doing announcing your cards while the hand is in plan? Even if you fold, it could influence the betting of others know what cards are or are not available. Isn't there also "technically" a rule about lying about your cards? Everyonce in a while you'll see someone on TV lie about what they had and the analysts go nuts.

[MJ4H]

Yes there are rules that disallow discussing the specific cards you have in multi-way pots. In some places the rule is relaxed for heads-up situations.

[sabotai]

Update. Got a response from support again. He said he saw the comments made but can't find any specific cases of him dumping. In other words, he said he was trying, and either was lying or just didn't get any/enough chances to do it.