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07-06-2005, 08:32 PM
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#1 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
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Tim Brown to retire (as a Raider)
...and if I have it my way, the only way he sees the Hall of Fame is by paying admission.
----------------------------------------------------- Associated Press ALAMEDA, Calif. -- Tim Brown will end his prolific NFL career with the Oakland Raiders after all.
The Raiders plan to hold a news conference later this month with owner Al Davis to recognize Brown, the former Heisman Trophy winner and longest-tenured player in franchise history. Brown was released last August when he refused to accept a greatly diminished role in coach Norv Turner's offense. He signed with Tampa Bay to play what turned out to be his last season with former Raiders coach Jon Gruden. Brown, who turns 39 on July 22, played the first 16 of his 17 seasons with the Raiders, and always hoped to be remembered as the organization's greatest receiver. He was the last former member of the Los Angeles Raiders and the person young players turned to for advice. The self-proclaimed "Mr. Raider" holds most of the club's receiving records, and his 240 games with the team are the most in franchise history. Brown was a first-round draft choice by the Raiders in 1988 out of Notre Dame. The Raiders are happy he's part of the team again, even if he's no longer on the field hauling in passes. "I'm glad to hear that," fullback Zack Crockett said. "When you hear Tim Brown's name, you hear nothing but Oakland Raider. You don't hear Tampa Bay. We followed in his footsteps with the Raiders. That's excellent for him. He's one of those guys who paved the way for everybody." With the Raiders, Brown had 1,070 catches for 14,734 yards and 99 touchdowns. Last year with the Buccaneers, he had just 24 catches for 200 yards and one touchdown. Brown is tied for third with Steve Largent on the career receiving touchdown list with 100 and second all-time behind Jerry Rice for career receiving yards with 14,934. His 1,094 career catches ranks third. In his final season with Oakland, he had 52 catches for 567 yards and two touchdowns. Brown also helped the Raiders reach their first Super Bowl in 19 years after the 2002 season. The team is planning to honor him before training camp opens at the end of this month in Napa. "We hoped he would wait until training camp to do something formal, but he has something pending that necessitates he make a formal announcement now," Taylor said. The story was first reported by NFL Network.
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07-06-2005, 08:42 PM
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#2 |
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Unregistered
Join Date: May 2004
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Anyone know how much he's getting paid for that one day?
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07-06-2005, 08:44 PM
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#3 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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I hate those stupid sign-and-retire deals.
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Mile High Hockey |
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07-06-2005, 08:47 PM
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#4 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Henderson, Nevada
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He should play 1 more year and get that 100th td reception, but who am I to say.
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Toujour Pret |
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07-06-2005, 09:11 PM
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#5 |
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College Prospect
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Phoenix
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And just think...that year in Tampa Bay cost him the chance to be a "Legend of the Game."
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The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they'll be when you kill them! Visit Stewart the Wonderbear and his amazing travels http://wonderbeartravel.blogspot.com |
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07-06-2005, 09:28 PM
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#6 | |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: My Computer
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Quote:
He has 100 for his career, just 99 as a Raider. (He caught one last year for Tampa Bay) |
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07-07-2005, 07:07 AM
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#7 | |
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Roster Filler
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cicero
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Quote:
Me too. What's the point. Noone is going to think of you as a Buc, we already know you are a Raider. And sorry, Corey, but he's going to the hall. Not that I disagree that he was never really that caliber of player, but he's going on his numbers, and you can't stop it.
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http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price! |
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07-07-2005, 07:59 AM
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#8 |
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This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
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The only way he would have gotten into the HoF is if he had signed with the Broncos way back when. Now, he's just a stinkin' Raider.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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07-07-2005, 08:15 AM
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#9 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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Quote:
2001: In 2001, became the Raiders all-time scoring leader in touchdowns reaching the 100 touchdown mark for his career, the first Raider to accomplish this feat...The 100 touchdowns ties him with Hall of Famer Franco Harris for 12th place in NFL history...Begins 2002 season having caught at least two passes in 140 straight games, second-longest streak among active NFL players...Last game without catch was on October 3, 1993 vs. Kansas City...Holds Raider career records in catches (937), receiving yards (13,237), total yards from scrimmage (17,752), punt returns (310), punt return yardage (3,217) and receiving touchdowns (95)...Currently the fifth all-time leading receiver in NFL history with 937 receptions...Ranks 5th all-time in NFL history with 13,237 receiving yards...Ranks seventh in NFL history with 17,863 total all-purpose yards... Became the all-time leader in Pro Bowl appearances as a Raider with ninth selection following another spectacular season...Started in all 16 league games at wide receiver, ranking first on the team and seventh in the AFC in receptions with 91...The 91 receptions are the second-most in his career (104 in 1997)...Finished first on the team and fifth in the AFC in receiving yards with 1,165, the ninth consecutive year he has surpassed 1,000 receiving yards, second-best in NFL history (11 - Jerry Rice 1986-96)...Tied with Jerry Rice for first on the team in receiving touchdowns with nine...Had a long reception of 46 yards while averaging 12.8 yards per catch...Returned punts for the first time since 1998, fielding six for 111 yards with a long of 88, a touchdown the third of his career...The three punt returns for touchdowns ties him with Claude Gibson and George Atkinson for a franchise record...Averaged 18.5 yards per return, the best in his career...Has now returned a team-record 310 punts, fourth-best in NFL history...Has 3,217 punt return yards, best in team history and fifth-highest in NFL history... Carried the ball four times for 39 yards and a career-best 9.8 yards per attempt...Had a career-long 19-yard run...At Kansas City (9/9) in the season opener, he caught a team-high eight passes for 133 yards and one touchdown...Against Dallas (10/7), he pulled in a team-high seven passes for 114 yards...The next week at Indianapolis (10/14), he caught a team-high seven passes for 145 yards, a season-high...Against Denver (11/5) on Monday Night Football, he reeled in a team-high and season-high nine passes for 95 yards and two touchdowns...At the New York Giants (11/25) he caught a team-high six passes for 117 yards and two touchdowns...The following week, he caught five passes for 63 yards and two touchdowns for his second-consecutive two-touchdown performance of the season and third overall on the season...Finished the season with four 100-plus yard games raising his career total to 41...Caught at least three p asses in every game and five or more in 12 contests in 2001... Saw action at wide receiver in the Pro Bowl, catching two passes for 41 yards, second on the AFC with a long of 30 yards...Returned two kickoffs for 54 yards with a long of 33... 2000: Surpassed the 1,000-yard receiving mark for the eighth straight season, a feat only accomplished by two other players in NFL history... Led the team in receptions with 76 and receiving yardage with 1,128...Had a career-best 11 touchdown receptions ranking second in the AFC and seventh in the NFL while breaking his old mark of 10 touchdowns set in 1995...Finished third in the AFC in average yards per reception (14.8)... Against Indianapolis (9/10), he caught a 26-yard pass to put him over 11,000 receiving yards for his career...In a contest against Denver (9/17), he caught two touchdown passes, the first tied him with Raiders Hall of Famer Fred Biletnikoff for the most receiving touchdowns in Silver and Black history with 76...On the second touchdown of the contest, he became the Raiders all-time leader in touchdown receptions with 77... Best performance of the season was at San Francisco (10/8), snagging seven passes for 172 yards and two touchdowns, the second touchdown of the contest was a 31-yard strike from QB Rich Gannon for the win in overtime...In a contest at Kansas City (10/15) on his fourth of five receptions on the day, he topped the 800-reception mark for his career...Against the New York Jets (12/10) he caught a team-high three receptions for 31 yards to bypass the 12,000-yard receiving mark for his career... Went over the 100-yard receiving mark twice during the season to bring his total to 37 career games of over 100-plus yards receiving - a franchise record...Led the team in receptions in 13 contests and receiving yardage in 10 games... Started in the AFC Divisional Playoff Game vs. Miami (1/6) and tied for a team-high in receptions with two for 27 yards in the victory...Started in the AFC Championship Game and had team-highs in receptions with five and yardage with 48. 1999: Went over 1,000-yard receiving mark for seventh straight year which has only been accomplished by two other players in NFL history (Jerry Rice and Chris Carter)… Recorded a team-high 90 receptions (T-4th in NFL) for 1,344 yards (5th in NFL) and six touchdowns to earn his eighth trip to the Pro Bowl… With the 1999 Pro Bowl selection, he ties Pro Football Hall of Famers Art Shell and Howie Long for the most All-Star game appearances in Silver and Black history with eight… Was also named the AFC Player of The Week following contest versus New York. 1998: Went over 1,000-yard receiving yardage mark for sixth straight year after recording 1,012 yards on 81 catches (10th-best in NFL)… Career total of 9,600 yards is Raiders all-time record, which he set in during November 1 contest at Seattle when he totaled 74 yards… Led Raiders with nine touchdowns, one shy of career best set in 1995... 1997: Made seventh trip to the Pro Bowl after a record setting season with the Silver and Black… Credited with career high 104 receptions for 1,408 yards and five touchdowns while adding 19 yards rushing. Became Raiders all-time leading receiver, surpassing Hall of Famer and current wide receivers coach Fred Biletnikoff with 599 career receptions… Became Raiders all-time total yardage record holder with 13,022 yards, breaking old mark of 12,803… Has exceeded 1,000 yards in a season five straight years-also a Raider record… Posted a Raiders single season record with seven 100-yard plus receiving games and five 150-yard receiving games, tying an NFL record… Only Raider to surpass 100 receptions in a season… Broke Art Powell's single season total reception yardage record of 1,361 by accumulating 1,408 yards-a Raider record that stood since 1964…Tied for first in the NFL with 104 catches while placing second in the league with 1,408 receiving yards… Finished seventh in the AFC with 1,427 total yards from scrimmage… Shared the Commitment to Excellence Award with Jeff George and Russell Maryland…Became only the third Raider to top 8,000 receiving yards in his career, joining Fred Biletnikoff and broke Todd Christensen's single season team record (95)… Broke the Raiders single game receiving record of 12 receptions, which he shared with Dave Casper. Broke Art Powell's single season total reception yardage record of 1,361 by accumulating 1,408 yards 1996: Led the team in receiving with 90 catches for 1104 yards, an average of 12.3 yards per carry and 9 TDs. 1995: Pro Bowl starter for third straight year in 1995 after topping AFC in receiving yards for third consecutive season with career-high 1,342 yards, second-most in team history. Topped Raiders and placed third in AFC in receptions with 89, which tied his career-high and most ever by a Raider wide receiver. Scored 10 touchdowns in 1995 for 46 in eight year pro career to place seventh among all-time Raiders. Six 100-yard receiving games in '95. 1994: Led Raiders and placed third in AFC with 89 catches, also a career-high and most-ever by a Raider wide receiver… First on Raiders and second in AFC in touchdown receptions with nine, including two versus both Atlanta and New Orleans… Has scored 240 points in Raider career, which places him 12th on team's all-time scoring list and ninth among non kickers… Also led Raiders and ranked second in AFC in punt returns in '94 with 12.2-yard average on 40 attempts and 487 yards on punt returns was tops in NFL in '94… Enters 1995 having caught 316 career passes to rank fifth among all-time Raider pass catchers… Pro Bowl starter at wide receiver for 1993 season after leading AFC with 1,180 receiving yards… Tied for fourth best in AFC in '93 with 80 receptions while 11.6-yard average on 40 punt returns placed third in AFC, fifth in NFL… Seven touchdowns scored in1993, which tied for fourth best in AFC… Posted four 100-yard receiving games in '93 1992: Led team in receiving, receiving yards and touchdowns with 49 catches for 693 yards for 14.1-yard average and seven touchdowns...Also led Raiders and placed fifth in AFC in punt returns with 10.4-yard average on 37 returns for 383 yards while playing in 15 league games with 12 starts... Had Raiders longest reception with a 68-yard touchdown catch against the N.Y. Giants...Caught six passes for 104 yards, one touchdown at Cincinnati and had eight catches for 88 yards and game-tying touchdown with seconds left during win at Washington... 1991: Named to second Pro Bowl as kick returner after sharing AFC lead in punt returns with 11.4-yard average...Active for all 16 league games plus Wild Card contest with one start at wide receiver against New Orleans... Finished third on team in receptions with 36 for 554 yards and tied for team lead in touchdowns scored with five...Recorded first punt return for touchdown of pro career with 75-yard return against Cincinnati...Best receiving game statistically was two catches for 106 yards, including 78-yard touchdown reception against Buffalo...Scored two touchdowns receiving in regular season finale against Kansas City... 1990: Played in all 16 league games as third wide receiver and punt returner...Led team and ranked fourth in AFC in punt returns with 8.7-yard average on 34 returns for 295 yards...Also had 18 receptions for 265 yards and three scores...Tied for top mark in NFL in punts returned in single game with six against Kansas City... 1989: Totaled one catch for eight yards, four punt returns for 43 yards and 10.8 average and three kickoff returns for 63 yards in league opener before sustaining season-ending injury... 1988: Pro Bowl kick returner during rookie season...Led NFL in kickoff returns with average of 26.8 yards per return...Kickoff return yardage total of 1,098 yards also led the NFL...Led AFC in punt return yardage with 444...Raiders leading receiver with 43 catches with 725 reception yards, most of any rookie receiver in AFC for 1988...Also caught five scoring passes for the league season... Played in all 16 league games, starting nine...Returned kickoff 97 yards for a touchdown in his first NFL game against San Diego...Had 114 yards on just four receptions and a 49-yard touchdown catch at Seattle... Broke Gale Sayers' NFL record for most total yardage by rookie with 2,317 yards (725 on receptions, 50 yards rushing, 1,098 on kickoff returns and 444 on punt returns)...Raiders first round draft pick in 1988 (sixth player taken). College Highlights Heisman Trophy winner in 1987 as senior at Notre Dame… Named United Press International and The Sporting News College Player of the Year… Consensus All-America selection as a senior. ..Ranked sixth nationally in 1987 with 167.9 all-purpose yards per game. Led team with 39 catches for 846 yards and 21.7-yard average. Returned three punts for touchdowns including two against Michigan State… Had career-high 294 all-purpose yards versus Boston College. Holds school career records for receiving yards (2,493), kickoff return yards (1,613) and all-purpose yards (5,024)… Also rushed for 442 yards during college career. Consensus All-America as junior wide receiver… Set school record with 1,937 all-purpose yards. .Ranked third in nation with 27.9 kickoff return average… Had career high 184 yards receiving against Navy. . . Ran two kickoffs back for touchdowns. Caught 45 passes for 910 yards and five touchdowns. Sports Illustrated Offensive Player of the Week for 252 all-purpose yards versus Southern California… School's leading receiver as sophomore… Played in Aloha and Cotton Bowls as well as Japan Bowl and Hula Bowl All-Star contests following senior season... Lettered one year as sprinter on Notre Dame track team. |
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07-07-2005, 08:51 AM
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#10 | ||
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Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
I know he's going. I was just saying that if I had my way....
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07-07-2005, 09:37 AM
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#11 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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Why?
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07-07-2005, 09:40 AM
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#12 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cinn City
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Quote:
Mr. Brown, Coach Weis will see you now. |
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07-07-2005, 09:50 AM
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#13 |
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Rider Of Rohan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep
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I'm not sure he's hall-worthy, and I despise the Raiders (sorry R.A.), but I will always think of Tim Brown as a dominant WR in his heyday. God, he used to kill me in fantasy football, I know that much for sure.
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It's not the years...it's the mileage. |
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07-07-2005, 09:53 AM
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#14 |
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Go Reds
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio
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CT you are fucked in the head if you don't think Timmy B is a hall of famer.
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07-07-2005, 10:43 AM
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#15 |
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FOF2 Guy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Paris, France
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In my opinion, Tim Brown is on the verge of being a Hall of Famer.
He has the numbers, but was he ever that truly dominant a player at anytime in his career ? not sure of that. Efficient yes, dominant I don't know. That is why I don't think he is a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame. Will definitely be highly considered, but might not be enough to make it immediately.
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FOF2 lives on / Continue to support the best game ever ! - Owner of the San Francisco 49ers in FOF2 - Charter member of the IHOF and owner of the Paris Musketeers franchise (FOF2004) - Chairman of the IHOF Hall of Fame - Athletic Director of the Brigham Young Cougars in TCY FOF Legend: Hall of Fame QB Brock Sheriff #5, one of the most popular player in Front Office Football history. |
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07-07-2005, 10:54 AM
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#16 |
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Roster Filler
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cicero
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I know his statistics look impressive, RA, I just never got the impression from him that I was watching an alltime great. He was consistently good for many years, but never great IMO.
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http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price! |
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07-07-2005, 10:56 AM
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#17 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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He just never had the one off the charts year but the man made plays.
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"Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales |
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07-07-2005, 10:56 AM
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#18 | ||
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Strategy Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
DK just spelled it out. Tim Brown was never ever ever the best wide receiver in the league, or even one that was talked about as truly exceptional. Yes, he was good, maybe very good, but i think the Hall of Fame is much too leniant in its selection criteria.
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07-07-2005, 11:01 AM
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#19 |
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General Manager
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Town of Flower Mound
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So no receiver that played from 1985 to 2000 deserves to be in since Jerry Rice was obviously the best receiver in the league over that period?
Ignore me, I'm just still upset that Irvin didn't get in last vote...
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UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO |
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07-07-2005, 11:16 AM
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#20 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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Quote:
So which of these receivers currently in the HoF doesn't deserve to be there either? I'd echo Jeebs by saying Jerry Rice was the best receiver in the league during Tim Brown's tenure, but nine pro bowl appearances don't count? Lance Alworth 1962-1972 Raymond Berry 1955-1967 Fred Biletnikoff 1965-1978 Tom Fears 1948-1956 Elroy (Crazylegs) Hirsch (also HB) 1946-1956 Charlie Joiner 1969-1986 Steve Largent 1976-1989 Dante Lavelli 1946-1956 James Lofton 1978-1993 Don Maynard 1958, 1960-1973 Tommy McDonald 1957-1968 Bobby Mitchell (also HB) 1958-1968 Pete Pihos 1947-1955 John Stallworth 1974-1987 Lynn Swann 1974-1982 Charley Taylor (also HB) 1964-1975, 1977 Paul Warfield 1964-1977 |
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07-07-2005, 11:46 AM
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#21 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Springfield, USA
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Quote:
Yep, there are several on that list that weren't "worldbeaters", but had great overall careers. Tim Brown is in, IMHO. |
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07-07-2005, 11:49 AM
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#22 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Tim Brown was very Largent-esque.
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"Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales |
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07-07-2005, 01:15 PM
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#23 |
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lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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While I can't forcefully argue that Brown clearly does not deserve to get in, I do agree with the general sentiment that the HOF tends to over-reward long term competence over established brilliance. For me, the easiest contemprary to compare with Brown is probably Sterling Sharpe. While Sharpe didn't play as many years as Brown, there is (in my judgment) absolutely no comparison who was the more effective player when they were at their best. I'd take Sharpe ten out of ten times, and the margin is such that I'd be perfectly willing to overlook the many more years of satisfactory performance that Brown accumulated.
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07-07-2005, 01:18 PM
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#24 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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I don't think, particularly in football, you can discount durability and longevity.
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"Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales |
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07-07-2005, 03:39 PM
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#25 | |
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College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
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Quote:
As a life-long Lions fan I am going to attempt to sign a contract with the Lions just so that I can end (and begin) my professional football career with the team I feel the most passion for. Hell, even if it is for the league minimum and I get a check for that one day I'll make more than I have for the last couple of years working my ass off.
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In the immortal words of a great alcoholic, "Can't we all just get along?" |
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07-07-2005, 04:04 PM
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#26 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
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Quote:
On a different note, I'd ask those people who said he was never the best WR when he played if they thought Terrell Davis should get into the Hall of Fame? Also, as a final shot, Tim Brown had more QBs and more offenses than Jerry Rice did in a comparative time period. His statistics in spite of those things are even more impressive in that light. |
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07-07-2005, 05:10 PM
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#27 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Quote:
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Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis |
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07-07-2005, 05:18 PM
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#28 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Henderson, Nevada
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The numbers alone prove he's in HOF, thought not the best he was pretty good. He outlasted most receivers that came at the same time and after he did. I dont know if he;s a shoe in but he will get there.
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Toujour Pret |
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07-07-2005, 05:36 PM
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#29 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
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Quote:
I was thinking more along the lines of Art Monk-esque
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Mile High Hockey |
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