Why are we Americans so stupid?

[ISiddiqui]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlin...334883&cc=5901

Governor outraged over lack of anthem

Associated Press

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- U.S. and international soccer officials are puzzled over acting governor Richard J. Codey's outrage that "The Star-Spangled Banner'' was not played before a match between England and Colombia. Codey attended Tuesday's match at Giants Stadium and became annoyed when the U.S. national anthem was not played along with the anthems of the countries in the match - even though that is the normal protocol. He said he immediately asked game organizers why it wasn't played and was told, "Governor, we're really very sorry. The British people don't want to hear it,'' The Star-Ledger of Newark reported in Thursday's newspapers. "When you have two countries you host so they can play each other, and have the anthems of both countries played but decide not to play the anthem of the host country, well that's about as absurd as it gets,'' Codey said Thursday. "What could they possibly be thinking?'' The governor sent letters to the chairman of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority, which manages the Meadowlands complex, and to Britain's ambassador to the United States. "The failure to play our national anthem was disrespectful not only to us as a the host, it was disrespectful to our country, the teams, the sport and all involved. This shouldn't happen in New Jersey, and it shouldn't happen anywhere,'' Codey wrote. George Zoffinger, chief executive of the sports authority, said not playing the U.S. anthem before an event at the complex is a violation of the authority's policy. However, playing only the anthems of the competing teams in a soccer match is standard for international games, including the World Cup. "Part of it (anthems) is for the introduction of those players in the match,'' said FIFA spokesman John Schumacher. "The match protocol is only the two teams.'' FIFA, which has 205 members throughout the world, had no jurisdiction over Tuesday's game. "Any member is responsible for the international matches that go on in their territory,'' Schumacher said. U.S. Soccer spokesman Jim Moorhouse concurred with FIFA's statements. "The normal international protocol would be (to play the anthems of) the two nations that are playing,'' Moorhouse said. "There are lots of international games played on neutral sites all over the world.'' Both Moorhouse and Schumacher said they never heard a similar complaint. Major League Soccer, which helped promote the match, was comfortable with the decision not to play the U.S. anthem and did not intend to disrespect anyone, spokesman Dan Courtemanche said. "The standard is to play only the national anthems of the two competing teams,'' Courtemanche explained.

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I mean what in the Hell? Tradition is that you play the anthems of the teams playing. What is this outrage for not playing the US national anthem? Is it to remind people what country they are in? Unreal.

I'm ashamed to be from New Jersey. Stupid governor.

[DaddyTorgo]

it's NJ, that's the problem. Damn NJ wackos

[weinstein7]

I'm ashamed to be from New Jersey. Stupid governor.

ACTING governor. Small consolation, I know, but he'll disappear back into obscurity soon.

[Galaxy]

Dola..

This is the same state that wants the Devils to change its nickname.

[Swaggs]

Another case of mock outrage.

[st.cronin]

Sorry, I'm with the governor on this one. If they don't want to hear our national anthem, they can stay on the other side of the ocean.

[ShaqFu]

The funny thing is that Codey is a Democrat and this is the sort of crap you would expect from a Republican. Who cares about hearing the National Anthem. I'm there to watch a soccer match.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Sorry, I'm with the governor on this one. If they don't want to hear our national anthem, they can stay on the other side of the ocean.

Elaborate, please.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Elaborate, please.

If the Fifa or the players would be *bothered* by hearing the us national anthem, then what the heck are they doing playing a match in the us? Play the match in the UK or Columbia. If you're going to play their national anthems, you can play ours as well.

I think it's proper to play the national anthem.

[Greyroofoo]

I gotta agree with the Governor too

[cthomer5000]

I've never understood what the fuck the national anthem has to do with a sporting event. If anything, I think it cheapens the anthem.

[dubb93]

and after already playing 2 i'm sure the players, fans, and everything one else that came to actually enjoy or play the game of soccer would want to set through 1 more anthem before the game.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I've never understood what the fuck the national anthem has to do with a sporting event. If anything, I think it cheapens the anthem.

You're my hero.

[st.cronin]

If you don't want to play any, don't play any. But don't play 2 national anthems in my country without also playing mine.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If the Fifa or the players would be *bothered* by hearing the us national anthem, then what the heck are they doing playing a match in the us? Play the match in the UK or Columbia. If you're going to play their national anthems, you can play ours as well.

I think it's proper to play the national anthem.

If it's the standard internationally, then what's the big deal? If, for example, the US played a match against Mexico in Canada, they wouldn't play the Canadian national anthem, at least according to that article. Anyway, as far as national outrages go, I think this one rates about a 0 on a scale of 0-10.

[Galaxy]

Personally,
I think we got bigger things to worry about then playing our anthem between two foreign clubs. Personally, you should play the clubs involved. South Korea didn't play their anthems when they hosted the WC unless they played.

I think our anthem playing and patrotic singing has gotten cheezy since 9/11. It was fine for a while after, but I think we can scale it back alittle. Alot of baseball games sign patrotic songs during the 7th inning stretch now. Thats alot of games.

Also, we should be lucky England-Colombia decided to play here. They are bringing money to the US through local businesses, tourism, police, ect. I think that is "respect" enough. They could go play in another country.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If you don't want to play any, don't play any. But don't play 2 national anthems in my country without also playing mine.

When the US isn't playing, what is the fucking point in playing the US anthem? So the spectators can feel good that they now know where they are? They are played for each team and their players. Since it is two national teams, it seems right to play their anthems.

We didn't play the US anthem in USA '94 when we didn't play and it wasn't an issue.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If the Fifa or the players would be *bothered* by hearing the us national anthem, then what the heck are they doing playing a match in the us? Play the match in the UK or Columbia. If you're going to play their national anthems, you can play ours as well.

I think it's proper to play the national anthem.

I think I'd like to have the money that those two sides bring in. We invited them in and followed the standard. As someone said, if the US played Mexico in Canada, according to standard Canada wouldn't have their anthem played. In such a situation would you rather have Canada play their anthem and not ours (or Mexico's)?

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I've never understood what the fuck the national anthem has to do with a sporting event. If anything, I think it cheapens the anthem.

I agree. People need to settle down over this kind of shit.

[HomerJSimpson]

What!?! They didn't play the anthem!?! Then the terrorist have already won.

[st.cronin]

I'm really surprised at how many people think it's out of line to want to hear our national anthem. It takes about a minute and a half. Why is it such a big frickin' deal? The story says the British team would have been "bothered" by hearing it - what the fuck is up with that? Why do we have to be the ones to get over it? What about them standing up and paying some respect to the country they are visiting?

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If the Fifa or the players would be *bothered* by hearing the us national anthem, then what the heck are they doing playing a match in the us? Play the match in the UK or Columbia. If you're going to play their national anthems, you can play ours as well.

I think it's proper to play the national anthem.

It should be noted that nobody was bothered by the non-playing of the anthem until the grandstanding acting governor of New Jersey raised the issue. Again, as has been mentioned, this is the accepted tradition with regards to two international sides playing in a third country. It wasn't like the FIFA reps (while stroking their devil horns and wearing "Down With The USA!" t-shirts) called up MLS and the Meadowlands making a special request demanding that they not play the American Anthem.

Finally, FIFA was doing New Jersey and the MLS a big favor by sending two high-profile national teams (and Beckham et al) to the Meadowlands. Do you think they could have gotten 58,000 to a soccer match otherwise?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I've never understood what the fuck the national anthem has to do with a sporting event. If anything, I think it cheapens the anthem.

Yes.

[albionmoonlight]

dola--

st.cronin,

I assume you are making the argument that when two teams play at a neutral site, that all three anthems should be played before the event and not just the two anthems of the competing teams? If that is the case, then there is a spectrum, I suppose:

1.) Play no anthems
2.) Play anthem of only host country
3.) Play anthem of competing teams
4.) Play anthems of competing teams and host county
5.) Play anthems of every country in the world
6.) Play anthems of every country in the world and every country that used to exist but no longer exists.

The international community has decided on #3. The gov. seems to want #4. I don't really see what the big deal is.

Before this grandstanding, had you asked me what the international standard was, I would not have known.

[vex]

Originally Posted by ShaqFu

The funny thing is that Codey is a Democrat and this is the sort of crap you would expect from a Republican. Who cares about hearing the National Anthem. I'm there to watch a soccer match.

Oh yes, just like the Devils name change, huh?

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If you don't want to play any, don't play any. But don't play 2 national anthems in my country without also playing mine.

Are you fucking nuts ? That's what "hosting" something means- they were hosting it so that the American public can watch the game. In the World cup, they don't play the hosting country's anthem before every game- that's asinine.
By this logic, at the olympic ceremonies when they play the anthems at the end, they should play that of the host country as well.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Are you fucking nuts ? That's what "hosting" something means- they were hosting it so that the American public can watch the game. In the World cup, they don't play the hosting country's anthem before every game- that's asinine.
By this logic, at the olympic ceremonies when they play the anthems at the end, they should play that of the host country as well.

I was about to say the same thing....st. Cronin, Mr. Governor, your argument makes no sense....its not about the US anthem, its about the international standard, and the pre game ceremony seems to be upto international standards.....

[panerd]

But you guys are missing the point! What about all of the people who have done everything they can to avoid serving in the military, and paying taxes that support the military, who drive their foreign cars decorated with support the troops magnets, who move themselves by their great show of patriotism when they remove their hats during the national anthem? Before 9-11 they may have just hit the hot dog stand, but dammit things have changed. Don't let the terrorist countries like Brazil and England win!

[panerd]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola--

st.cronin,

I assume you are making the argument that when two teams play at a neutral site, that all three anthems should be played before the event and not just the two anthems of the competing teams? If that is the case, then there is a spectrum, I suppose:

1.) Play no anthems
2.) Play anthem of only host country
3.) Play anthem of competing teams
4.) Play anthems of competing teams and host county
5.) Play anthems of every country in the world
6.) Play anthems of every country in the world and every country that used to exist but no longer exists.

The international community has decided on #3. The gov. seems to want #4. I don't really see what the big deal is.

Before this grandstanding, had you asked me what the international standard was, I would not have known.

#6. What time does the Jets game start tonight? Well the ticket says 7:05, so I say we get there about 9:30 and catch the anthems of Yugoslavia, Zaire, and Zimbabwe. Thank god for that New Jersey governor, we wouldn't want that African kid in row 36 to be offended!

[Tara]

I don't think this time Americans was 'stupid'.
As a stranger you have always the feeling that US are too much into patriotic problems...but this time I believe governor was right.
The rule, in soccer is well known: both anthem must be played.

I mean, I don't give a fuck about this patriotic matters, but if here in italy someone play only the host team anthem in a official match that seems (at least) quite strange...

BTW why they gotta play anthems during match?

[clintl]

Originally Posted by Tara

The rule, in soccer is well known: both anthem must be played.

I think you misread something. Both anthems were played. The US wasn't playing.

[Suicane75]

I think it's clear that they should of played Bon Jovi, that way everyone would be super happy and we could all hold hands.

[weinstein7]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

I think it's clear that they should of played Bon Jovi, that way everyone would be super happy and we could all hold hands.

Word.

[Arles]

Codey attended Tuesday's match at Giants Stadium and became annoyed when the U.S. national anthem was not played along with the anthems of the countries in the match - even though that is the normal protocol.

He said he immediately asked game organizers why it wasn't played and was told, "Governor, we're really very sorry. The British people don't want to hear it,'' The Star-Ledger of Newark reported in Thursday's newspapers.

Seems to me like they should change the protocol to only play the anthem for two competing teams. If you have a protocol for neutral matches that says the anthems for both teams and the hosting country should be played, but then change that protocol because one of the teams doesn't want to hear the host anthem - that probably won't sit right with many in the host country.

Now, I do think this is a little overblown, but I put the onus on FIFA to either follow their own protocols for each match or change them if you feel some situations may dictate differing treatment.

[SFL Cat]

Why are Americans so stupid?!

Because we RULE the world, man, and we can afford to be.

Not that I care strongly about the anthem flap one way or the other.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by Arles

Seems to me like they should change the protocol to only play the anthem for two competing teams. If you have a protocol for neutral matches that says the anthems for both teams and the hosting country should be played, but then change that protocol because one of the teams doesn't want to hear the host anthem - that probably won't sit right with many in the host country.

Err, I believe that in the article they mean that the normal protocol IS to only play the competing teams. Worded a bit oddly though.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Calis

Err, I believe that in the article they mean that the normal protocol IS to only play the competing teams. Worded a bit oddly though.

Yes, the "even though that is the normal protocol" part was worded very poorly--the rest of the article (e.g., "playing only the anthems of the competing teams in a soccer match is standard for international games, including the World Cup") suggests that the normal protocol is to play the anthems of those teams playing.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Yes, the "even though that is the normal protocol" part was worded very poorly--the rest of the article (e.g., "playing only the anthems of the competing teams in a soccer match is standard for international games, including the World Cup") suggests that the normal protocol is to play the anthems of those teams playing.

OK, yeah, I see it now. In this case, it is much ado about nothing and should be given the proper tar and feathering FOFC is providing.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by Arles

OK, yeah, I see it now. In this case, it is much ado about nothing and should be given the proper tar and feathering FOFC is providing.

Woo-hoo!!

[Tara]

Originally Posted by clintl

I think you misread something. Both anthems were played. The US wasn't playing.

Sorry, my mistake. Now I've read the thing better because before I've read it quite on a hurry....so gotta change my mind. I don't think the governor was right.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by panerd

But you guys are missing the point! What about all of the people who have done everything they can to avoid serving in the military, and paying taxes that support the military, who drive their foreign cars decorated with support the troops magnets, who move themselves by their great show of patriotism when they remove their hats during the national anthem? Before 9-11 they may have just hit the hot dog stand, but dammit things have changed. Don't let the terrorist countries like Brazil and England win!

Damn those Brits. They will attack us with their fancy talk and drive-by arguments. Dola, whats a "foreign car"? Am I the only one who finds the troop magnets alittle annoying? Dont get me wrong, I am proud of being an American, but I don't need to tell other Americans and ruin my stuff by sticking crap all over it.

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Do you think they could have gotten 58,000 to a soccer match otherwise?

yes.

see champions world tour last summer.

in chicago: Man Yoo vs. Bayern Munich . Attendance 56k (sellout, i believe)

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Damn those Brits. They will attack us with their fancy talk and drive-by arguments. Dola, whats a "foreign car"? Am I the only one who finds the troop magnets alittle annoying? Dont get me wrong, I am proud of being an American, but I don't need to tell other Americans and ruin my stuff by sticking crap all over it.

If someone's son or daughter is overseas, for example, then I don't see anything wrong with yellow ribbons. I prefer them to the Send Bush to Mars stickers I mostly see around Seattle. That said, I saw a comedian who said that he really liked bumper stickers because it made it easy to know that he should never hang out with that person.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by finkenst

yes.

see champions world tour last summer.

in chicago: Man Yoo vs. Bayern Munich . Attendance 56k (sellout, i believe)

Not sure if you are misreading my post, but you are supporting my argument: getting high profile clubs to play exhibitions here in the US really helps out with the attendance, when those matches are part of a double-header with an MLS league match. The MLS would never get those numbers on its own...

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

If someone's son or daughter is overseas, for example, then I don't see anything wrong with yellow ribbons. I prefer them to the Send Bush to Mars stickers I mostly see around Seattle. That said, I saw a comedian who said that he really liked bumper stickers because it made it easy to know that he should never hang out with that person.

Good point. But alot of people I see have them don't sons/daugthers/mothers/fathers/wifes/husbands overseas. Just a regular joe. That is one smart comedian.

[Mac Howard]

I'm not sure the governor was wrong. You have a difference of two cultures and someone had to compromise. As far as I can see the "Stars and Stripes" is played before sporting events in the US. That is not the case in Europe - in a match between two Premiership sides "God Save the Queen" is not played (probably because we don't like pop stars murdering the anthem ). Anthems are not played other than in international games and then only the anthems of the competing nations or special occasions like the FA Cup Final.

So it isn't just a case of not adding the American anthem to the other two but of OMITTING it from a sporting event. The complaint is not "why didn't you play it?" but "why did you omit it?". So not as stupid as is suggested.

If the English team said they didn't want it played then they should be criticised for that but had they been made aware of the pre-match protocol in the US then I doubt they would have complained - the guest should be as courteous to the host as the host to the guest.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Anthems before sporting events is kind of silly. If you want to hear the anthem, sing it yourself or illegally download a cool mp3 version. To get upset about it is ridiculous. When I play rec soccer on weekends, we don't sing the anthem -- it's not tradition for "sporting events", but only a tradition for "some sporting events." I suggest a soccer match between England and Columbia is not one of them. The reason you here it at other sporting events is because the participants want it, like the NFL, or NHL (which plays both Canada and U.S.), which make it part of their lead up to a game. Here, not a single participant was American. What's the point.

[ISiddiqui]

So it isn't just a case of not adding the American anthem to the other two but of OMITTING it from a sporting event. The complaint is not "why didn't you play it?" but "why did you omit it?". So not as stupid as is suggested.

But, as stated, when the US hosted the Olympics, we didn't play the US anthem every time an event was commenced or concluded.

Furthermore, it seems the US standard is playing the anthems based on where the teams are from. In baseball, basketball, hockey games involving one American and one Canadian team, they play BOTH anthems.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

But, as stated, when the US hosted the Olympics, we didn't play the US anthem every time an event was commenced or concluded.

But the "event" there would be the Olympics and I assume the anthem was played during the opening and closing ceremonies. To play it before every separate event would be impractical.

In baseball, basketball, hockey games involving one American and one Canadian team, they play BOTH anthems.

That's my point about the host's courtesy to the guest. If the host's convention is to play its anthem before a sporting occasion then the guest should return the courtesy. If the England party objected to the anthem then I find this as petty as the governor's objection. Both are refusing to accept the other's conventions.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

But the "event" there would be the Olympics and I assume the anthem was played during the opening and closing ceremonies. To play it before every separate event would be impractical.

The Olympics are just a grouping of widely differing various events in one area. Remember that they play the national anthem of the winner AFTER the finals of each event, so why would it be impractical to play the US anthem at the start?

Furthermore, in USA '94, the US anthem was only played when the US National Team played.

That's my point about the host's courtesy to the guest. If the host's convention is to play its anthem before a sporting occasion then the guest should return the courtesy. If the England party objected to the anthem then I find this as petty as the governor's objection. Both are refusing to accept the other's conventions.

You missed my point. My point was that US convention was to play the anthem based on the teams. The reason the US anthem is played is because usually both teams are American. When there is a Canadian team in the stadium, both anthems are played. That shows that the US convention also seems to be to play the anthem corresponding to both teams, or else when Canadian teams showed up, we would have only played the US anthem, saying it is American convention.