How good is Nick Saban?

AlexB · 06-03-2005, 04:59 PM

As a Dolphins fan overseas, with little or no knowledge about college football, I'm becoming a little bit concerned with our off season moves, and from all the guy' positive press I reckon I must be missing something...

We've signed Scott Linehan (spelling?) from the Vikings who designed and oversaw an explosive offense that improved every year. Then we draft by all accounts a stud RB, we resign Boston, who if fit is a potent weapon to go alongside Chambers/Booker/McMichael, and replace Konrad (who I always thought was a good running/receiving FB in the mould of Mike Alstott, further similar to Alstott in not being a great blocker) with Heath Evans (the exact opposite). And there's strong rumours (a much lighter) Ricky might be back.

So on the face of it it could be that we have two top RBs, a good blocking FB, and four weapons at WR/TE. All good so far. But didn;t we have one of, if not the, worst OL in the NFL last year and a QB who failed to convince. Maybe Gus Frerotte is... no, I'm not even going to continue that nonsense. But the point is we appear to have got a few players at WR/RB, but no OL/QB to create space or get the ball to them

Defensively, Bowens/Chester are struggling, so we need somebody alongside Traylor, although we have beefed up the DE Position with Carter/Holliday. We've traded away Surtain for next to nothing, and lost Knight (FA) and Poole (IR) from the secondary.

While I appreciate you can;t change everything overnight, Saban to me seem to have addressed our RB and pass rush strengths, but not our other key problem areas at all, and a further area has become weaker in the secondary.

I can see us being hard pushed to stop the run, and the pass if Taylor/Carter/Holliday don't have stellar seasons, and when we have the ball our OL is unlikely to be able to open holes for our RB talent, or prevent our questionable QB getting the ball to our strong receiving corps.

Is this just me getting overly concerned, or is Saban all that I read about him and has it covered?

Kodos · 06-03-2005, 05:11 PM

I think the road back to the Dolphins being truly good is going to take a few seasons.

VPI97 · 06-03-2005, 05:28 PM

Saban's strength in college was his ability to recruit. That should come in handy for the Dolphins.

Deattribution · 06-03-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPI97

Saban's strength in college was his ability to recruit. That should come in handy for the Dolphins.

Maybe he can recruit a quarterback from the other team at half-time

AlexB · 06-03-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Maybe he can recruit a quarterback from the other team at half-time

Even their #2! Kinda like a loan - we'll give him game time!

I suppose some of it could be that the FA pool wasn;t the strongest ever, and (again going by what I read as I have no 1st hand knowledge about college football) the draft class was less than stellar, but I'm still concerned that he couldn;t find anybody to help the OL in particular (although I did think we signed a FA (unknown to me) OL from Cleveland, but NFL.com has him listed as a DT)

Another thing I've got to ask since reading/occasionally posting on these boards, is being a Dolphins fans a bit of stigma in the US?

amdaily · 06-03-2005, 05:58 PM

Butch Davis, Part II

AlexB · 06-03-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdaily

Butch Davis, Part II

Say it ain't so!

cthomer5000 · 06-03-2005, 06:09 PM

Remember, Frerotte actually out-performed Dante Culpepper when filling in two years back. I think he can be adequate until they find a long-term solution.

And as for O-line, everyone said the Chargers were insane for not making any visible changes last off-season... in the end they had a QB with a career year and were the most improved team in the league.

Leonidas · 06-03-2005, 07:19 PM

I've been reading a lot about camp and the players are all saying the team has a much better attitude with Saban. I was mostly worried about his ability to make relationships with the players, much the way Belichick had troubles in Cleveland, but Saban seems to have easily gained the player's approval. Great for a known disciplinarian.

As for making changes, I think Saban is doing the best he can with the hand he's been dealt. This was a terrible year both in the draft and FA for O-line, but a great year for RB. We had glaring needs at both places so Saban went for the best talent available. You can't make something from nothing and given what's available on the line that's what he faced. He got Roth to help on the D-line, grabbed a really good LB in the 3rd round, and took a pretty decent corner in the 4th. Given what was available and what was needed, I think he did about as well as anyone else could have done and am pleased to have him as coach.

AlexB · 06-03-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas

I've been reading a lot about camp and the players are all saying the team has a much better attitude with Saban. I was mostly worried about his ability to make relationships with the players, much the way Belichick had troubles in Cleveland, but Saban seems to have easily gained the player's approval. Great for a known disciplinarian.

As for making changes, I think Saban is doing the best he can with the hand he's been dealt. This was a terrible year both in the draft and FA for O-line, but a great year for RB. We had glaring needs at both places so Saban went for the best talent available. You can't make something from nothing and given what's available on the line that's what he faced. He got Roth to help on the D-line, grabbed a really good LB in the 3rd round, and took a pretty decent corner in the 4th. Given what was available and what was needed, I think he did about as well as anyone else could have done and am pleased to have him as coach.

That's more reassuring - like I said I had never even heard of they guy until he was linked as the new new coach. I'm not against what he's done, but from the detached viewpoint I have, and the lack of background info on him, I am worried...

I have read that Crowder is a 1st round talent with a major injury history, so hopefully with Junior coming back and Zach at MLB we'll be good in the middle that'll help the defense: sometimes it's difficult being so distanced!

albionmoonlight · 06-03-2005, 07:28 PM

The Dolphins were a really bad team last year. It will take a couple of offseasons to get enough talent in place. Also, I think that getting bargain FAs is a bit harder since the Patriots demonstrated that you can win with them. A few years ago it may have been easier to pick up the solid but unspectacular player who slipped through the cracks while everyone went after the big names. Not anymore.

As to the "stigma" question. I think of the Dolphins as one of the class franchises in the league. I think that Dolphins' fans don't have any stigma attached to them.

Desnudo · 06-03-2005, 07:32 PM

As a hobby, I heard Don Shula runs over manatees with his motorboat.

AlexB · 06-03-2005, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

As a hobby, I heard Don Shula runs over Dave Shula with his motorboat.

More likely surely?

Bearcat729 · 06-03-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdaily

Butch Davis, Part II

Before the Browns hired Davis I had wanted them to pick up Saban.

I think that he could be a good coach.

Rizon · 06-03-2005, 08:26 PM

As a Dolphins fan, this is the first season I've looked forward to since 1999.

Bubba Wheels · 06-03-2005, 09:04 PM

Saban's nickname at MSU was 'the savior': Saban was able to take a medicore team on the slide like the Spartans and turned them into winners with a QB like Carl? Banks at the helm. After getting the LSU job Saban flew back to East Lansing and offered any of his assistant coaches a job with him. None accepted. This was widely played up in the news media around town as further proof that new coach Bobby Williams was going to do 'great things' and Saban was an arrogant 'overrated' hack. Hindsight shows that one Nick Saban is worth about his weight in gold. I think the Dolphins got a real winner and the fans will be very happy very soon with his results.

amdaily · 06-03-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Saban's nickname at MSU was 'the savior': Saban was able to take a medicore team on the slide like the Spartans and turned them into winners with a QB like Carl? Banks at the helm. After getting the LSU job Saban flew back to East Lansing and offered any of his assistant coaches a job with him. None accepted. This was widely played up in the news media around town as further proof that new coach Bobby Williams was going to do 'great things' and Saban was an arrogant 'overrated' hack. Hindsight shows that one Nick Saban is worth about his weight in gold. I think the Dolphins got a real winner and the fans will be very happy very soon with his results.

Reads sort of like this article from 2001:

Browns can thank Butch for swagger
Boy, have they changed. The Browns are like that guy in the back of old magazines who got sand kicked in his face by a bully, only to discover a secret that made him big, bad and strong.

Nobody's kicking sand in this team's face anymore.

The Browns, much like other teams on Davis' coaching resume, have a swagger. They will not be bullied. More likely, they are doing the bullying. Why wait to get hit when you can do the hitting?

http://cbs.sportsline.com/b/page/pre...397478,00.html

Point being, what works in College doesn't work in the Pro's. The Browns learned that the hard and expensive way and I'll put good money on the same thing happening in Miami.

vex · 06-03-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdaily

Reads sort of like this article from 2001:

Browns can thank Butch for swagger
Boy, have they changed. The Browns are like that guy in the back of old magazines who got sand kicked in his face by a bully, only to discover a secret that made him big, bad and strong.

Nobody's kicking sand in this team's face anymore.

The Browns, much like other teams on Davis' coaching resume, have a swagger. They will not be bullied. More likely, they are doing the bullying. Why wait to get hit when you can do the hitting?

http://cbs.sportsline.com/b/page/pre...397478,00.html

Point being, what works in College doesn't work in the Pro's. The Browns learned that the hard and expensive way and I'll put good money on the same thing happening in Miami.

Ditto for the 'Ole Ball Coach.

Leonidas · 06-04-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amdaily

Point being, what works in College doesn't work in the Pro's. The Browns learned that the hard and expensive way and I'll put good money on the same thing happening in Miami.

We're not talking about Bear Bryant here. This guy was a 100% NFL man, serving as Belichick's DC at one point, before ever going to the NCAA. The man has NFL experience and knows the pro game very well.

Tigercat · 06-04-2005, 02:25 PM

Saban's greatest strengths: Organization of rosters, resources, and time and playing the odds. That is why he was such a good recruiter, he knew what recruits he could go after and have a decent chance of signing and he did a great job of organizing what positions needed to most be recruited in which year. Furthermore, his organizational skills come in very handy when putting together packages for Ds.

With his organizational qualities and intelligence, as long as he has good coordinators (doesn't run them off by being a hardass), and as long as he has decent talent (doesn't run the players off by being a hardass), he will succeed in the NFL. Does he have good enough coaches and players right now? Your guess is as good as mine.

Router Help · 06-04-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

QB like Carl? Banks at the helm.

Tony Banks

Carl Banks was our all Big 10 linebacker from the early 80s.

Bubba Wheels · 06-04-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Router Help

Tony Banks

Carl Banks was our all Big 10 linebacker from the early 80s.

Yes, thanks, never took a snap that he couldn't find a way to fumble.

06-03-2005, 05:28 PM	#3
VPI97 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Kennesaw, GA	Saban's strength in college was his ability to recruit. That should come in handy for the Dolphins. __________________ CT & Jivin - "Surprisingly Entertaining"

06-03-2005, 07:19 PM	#9
Leonidas College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: East Anglia	I've been reading a lot about camp and the players are all saying the team has a much better attitude with Saban. I was mostly worried about his ability to make relationships with the players, much the way Belichick had troubles in Cleveland, but Saban seems to have easily gained the player's approval. Great for a known disciplinarian. As for making changes, I think Saban is doing the best he can with the hand he's been dealt. This was a terrible year both in the draft and FA for O-line, but a great year for RB. We had glaring needs at both places so Saban went for the best talent available. You can't make something from nothing and given what's available on the line that's what he faced. He got Roth to help on the D-line, grabbed a really good LB in the 3rd round, and took a pretty decent corner in the 4th. Given what was available and what was needed, I think he did about as well as anyone else could have done and am pleased to have him as coach. __________________ Molon labe

06-03-2005, 07:32 PM	#12
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	As a hobby, I heard Don Shula runs over manatees with his motorboat. Last edited by Desnudo : 06-03-2005 at 07:36 PM.

06-03-2005, 05:11 PM	#2
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	I think the road back to the Dolphins being truly good is going to take a few seasons.

06-03-2005, 05:58 PM	#6
amdaily College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2003	Butch Davis, Part II

06-03-2005, 07:28 PM	#11
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	The Dolphins were a really bad team last year. It will take a couple of offseasons to get enough talent in place. Also, I think that getting bargain FAs is a bit harder since the Patriots demonstrated that you can win with them. A few years ago it may have been easier to pick up the solid but unspectacular player who slipped through the cracks while everyone went after the big names. Not anymore. As to the "stigma" question. I think of the Dolphins as one of the class franchises in the league. I think that Dolphins' fans don't have any stigma attached to them.

06-03-2005, 09:04 PM	#16
Bubba Wheels College Starter Join Date: Jan 2004	Saban's nickname at MSU was 'the savior': Saban was able to take a medicore team on the slide like the Spartans and turned them into winners with a QB like Carl? Banks at the helm. After getting the LSU job Saban flew back to East Lansing and offered any of his assistant coaches a job with him. None accepted. This was widely played up in the news media around town as further proof that new coach Bobby Williams was going to do 'great things' and Saban was an arrogant 'overrated' hack. Hindsight shows that one Nick Saban is worth about his weight in gold. I think the Dolphins got a real winner and the fans will be very happy very soon with his results.

06-04-2005, 02:25 PM	#20
Tigercat College Starter Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Federal Way, WA	Saban's greatest strengths: Organization of rosters, resources, and time and playing the odds. That is why he was such a good recruiter, he knew what recruits he could go after and have a decent chance of signing and he did a great job of organizing what positions needed to most be recruited in which year. Furthermore, his organizational skills come in very handy when putting together packages for Ds. With his organizational qualities and intelligence, as long as he has good coordinators (doesn't run them off by being a hardass), and as long as he has decent talent (doesn't run the players off by being a hardass), he will succeed in the NFL. Does he have good enough coaches and players right now? Your guess is as good as mine.

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