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#1 | ||
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Far from home
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1st Appearance of Numerical Player Ratings and Dynasties?
I'm wondering if any veteran sports gamers can recall the first sports games that used numerical player ratings users could see to measure the abilities of virtual players. Was the CM series one of the first?
I was also wondering if anyone remembers when they read their first dynasties. Would it be plausible to make a connection between the appearance of numerical player ratings and the emergence of dynasty writing? |
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#2 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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You'd probably have to look back to tabletop sports gaming for the birth of player ratings.
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She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
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#3 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2003
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I remember playing hockey and soccer games by Mindscape on the C-64 that had player ratings and allowed you to play multiple seasons.
![]() hxxp://www.insidehockey.com/videogames/history.html Superstar Ice Hockey System: Commodore 64 Manufacturer: Mindscape Superstar Ice Hockey was produced by Mindscape for the Commodore 64. It contained some fairly advanced features, allowing users to change lines, recruit players, trade players and even improve the team's abilities in a "training camp" mode. This game also allowed users to fake passes and shots and manually control the goaltender. While these features probably seem fairly commonplace in today's sports simulation environment, they were quite revolutionary in 1987. Last edited by rexallllsc : 06-02-2005 at 01:08 PM. Reason: more info |
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#4 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Far from home
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CraigSca, that makes perfect sense.
Do we know of people who published stories about their experiences with these tabletop sports card games or do you think that the dynasty writing of today is in large part due to the internet? Last edited by Ajaxab : 06-02-2005 at 01:12 PM. |
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#5 |
Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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remember Omnisports basketball? That was cool too.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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#6 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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that Omnisports basketball was the best.
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"Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales |
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#7 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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Quote:
edit - oops, Waugh is the narrator (and creator of the fictional universe). Coover is the author.
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She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? Last edited by CraigSca : 06-02-2005 at 01:54 PM. |
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#8 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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Anybody read that book about the guy invented strat-o-matic? That was a very good read.
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#9 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
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Quote:
I remember that game. I also remember that it was quite fun to release all your stars for youngsters, until I found out the career model was broken and youngsters never really got any better ![]()
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She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know? |
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#10 | |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Quote:
Loved that book - wish I knew where it'd gone, I actually recommended it to Markus (who makes OOTP) a few months back ... Incidentally the first retail released soccer manager was 'Football Manager' by Kevin Toms to my knowledge, although there were several which came out mail order around the same time before that (FM and one by one by Mac Howard (Division One?) being the ones which spring to mind). CM didn't come in for a quite a while afterwards .... |
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#11 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Colorado Springs
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Quote:
They fixed that in the Apple version of it. I played that game to DEATH. |
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#12 |
General Manager
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Town of Flower Mound
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I hate you guys. I wasn't allowed to have computer games...our PC was for "educational purposes"...
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UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO |
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#13 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fresno, CA
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Quote:
Heck I played it on the PC in the mid eighties. My XT with a 28ms 30MB drive. Oh but the whole game, dynasties and all, was kept on a single 5 and 1/4" floppy. |
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#14 | |
Dynasty Boy
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
I don't know about that, but it was very good - and ahead of its time. One of the first sports career sims (wouldn't call it text, exactly), it had some neat ideas and was fun to play back when I was decent with a joystick. |
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#15 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Henderson, Nevada
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Quote:
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Toujour Pret |
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#16 | |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
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Quote:
I want to say 10, but it's been a long time. No more than 20, I'm pretty sure. I remember the easiest way to win was stack your roster with veteran players, who were relatively cheap to acquire, but still had good ratings - except for their stamina, endurance, or whatever the game called it. You could run up a big lead in the first couple of periods before they ran out of gas, then stall in the third to run the clock down. Fun game. |
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#17 |
Sick as a Parrot
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Surfers Paradise, Australia
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First one with visible skill numbers - one "skill" and one "energy" number if I remember rightly - was Kevin Toms' Football Manager around about 1982 for the Sinclair home computer ZX80/81 some ten years before CM. Kevin and I dispute who produced the first smg but my League Division One had the "fog of war" and didn't have visible skill numbers.
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Mac Howard - a Pom in Paradise Last edited by Mac Howard : 06-03-2005 at 05:58 AM. |
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#18 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
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The Amiga version of Superstar Ice Hockey kicked ass.
I hope Ed Ringler is living in a mansion somewhere right now.
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Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis |
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#19 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Far from home
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The only problem with Superstar Ice Hockey was that there was one move you could use to score any time you wanted. It would only work going left to right though. That meant lots of goals in the first and third period, but not as many in the second.
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#20 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Quote:
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Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis |
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#21 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
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The first sports sim I played that had numeric ratings was "HeadCoach" which I think might have been by Mac Howard as well. I played the heck out of that game in college. Brings back good memories. If it was written by Mac, I'd like to thank him for all those sleepless nights and giving me a reason to skip my 8 am classes.
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#22 |
Sick as a Parrot
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Surfers Paradise, Australia
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Headcoach was written by Colin Adams, an IT student at the time (1985), who played my Division One games and applied the same ideas to the gridiron game. The first game was for the BBC Micro but it really came to life on the Atari ST.
It began life as a cricket game but the stats for that were too massive for the computers at that time so he shifted it to gridiron which had became popular in the UK in the eighties through Channel Four's live telecasts. I converted the game for the Amiga from the Atari version while Colin produced a PC version and I later added a few improvements to this. Every so often I update the data as best I can though the expansion of the NFL has now made that irrelevant. I do have copyright on the game and am often sorry I didn't develop it instead of SaaP - gridiron is probably a better subject for the text sim approach than soccer because of its statistical nature and a match that plays in few-second bursts - and where I now find myself up against the might of Eidos/BSG, EA and Sega/SiGames ![]()
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Mac Howard - a Pom in Paradise Last edited by Mac Howard : 06-07-2005 at 06:55 PM. |
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#23 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Henderson, Nevada
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Quote:
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Toujour Pret |
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#24 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Yeah the Omni-Play Basketball, Superstar Soccer, Superstar Hockey are the first ones I remember that had a dynasty mode. I played way, way too much Omni-Play Basketball when I was younger. I still ocassionally play it via emulator.
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#25 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Georgia
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Quote:
I don't know about Superstar Ice Hockey, but both Superstar Soccer and Omni-Play Basketball would let you play unlimited seasons but would only track stats and W/L records for 9 seasons. However it would keep full team individual records (Most Pts./Most Rebounds) as long as you kept playing. The one thing it did not track was assists.
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#26 | |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Yeah, just goals-assists-points, I think. Not even sure if there was a leader board. |
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#27 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Fairfax, VA
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Quote:
Thanks for the info. I played it on a PC, so I guess I have to also thank Colin for all those late nights in college. ![]() I'm sorry you didn't continue developing Headcoach as well...just the thought of a gridiron version of a game like SaaP is very appealing to me. I think many of the design decisions you've made with SaaP would fit very well with American football. |
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#28 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Portland, OR
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When did Baseball Stars come out?
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#29 | |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Quote:
I was just about to bring that one up... I believe it was ~1988 or so... I just remember making my own team of rappers... Eazy-E was a MEAN-ASS pitcher. You got prize money for winning, then you bought better players or developed existing ones if I remember right... One of my fave games of all time... -Chas |
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