FM2005: positioning for a keeper?

FrogMan · 06-01-2005, 01:13 PM

Open question here, how much importance do you all accord to positioning when selecting a goalkeeper?

I got this promising 18yo who's looking pretty good on my team right now (Wayne Alexander for those who know my Q.P.R. squad), and a product of our own youth program to boot, but he's got 3 for positioning which I find kind of brutal. When I compare him to my current starter, a 25yo who seems to have peaked in ability (Schmeichel, again for readers of my dynasty), they are quite similar, with the 18yo having probably room to grow. Should I be that worried about the ugly positioning?

Your thoughts would be appreciated...

FM

Desnudo · 06-01-2005, 01:15 PM

I think you should stop buying really slow players. And I would be worried about the keeper positioning.

FrogMan · 06-01-2005, 01:17 PM

thanks for the extra advice, but my slow players are doing pretty well anyway

Seriously, how worried? very worried? Would it really mean he will never develop into a good keeper? He was a 1 in positioning last season and has gained 2 points in a season while not having one appearance with the first team...

FM

Desnudo · 06-01-2005, 01:22 PM

It depends on other factors like anticipation, agility, etc., but I wouldn't sign a keeper with position that bad.

FrogMan · 06-01-2005, 01:25 PM

yeah, I didn't sign him and probably wouldn't have. Trying to figure out if he's got a future ore not

Thanks for the info. I just saw he's got 1 for anticipation, that's is butt ugly... 12 for agility...

FM

illinifan999 · 06-01-2005, 01:28 PM

1 for anticipation and 3 for position.

On the off chance he figures out the ball is coming, he won't be in a position to save it. Are you sure he's not just off to the side of the net eating?

FrogMan · 06-01-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan999

1 for anticipation and 3 for position.

On the off chance he figures out the ball is coming, he won't be in a position to save it. Are you sure he's not just off to the side of the net eating?

nah, that would be the keeper in my son's U8 team last Summer

Eating or climbing in the net

FM

SaintAnselm · 06-01-2005, 02:13 PM

It's interesting you brought this up as it seems like I have seen quite a few keepers that seem solid except for a very low positioning number. I have, like you, tended to stay away from these guys.

However, maybe it's possible that high numbers in the other categories cover up for their lack of positioning.

One way to tell might be to try and find another keeper with similar numbers who plays and see how his numbers look.

Eaglesfan27 · 06-01-2005, 02:39 PM

I would avoid a keeper with positioning that low. I've had friends try to convince me that the positioning rating isn't that important for keepers and is more important for outfield players, but I've never believed that. A keeper would have to be amazing in every other regard for me to ignore a 3 positioning.

Marc Vaughan · 06-01-2005, 03:01 PM

Keepers are a strange bunch, finding a really reliable keeper is something which is essential to make a really great team - but its very hard to do just from surface stats ... especially if you're looking for a keeper who's consistent.

I personally go for keepers who have:

Low - Eccentricity, Tendancy to punch
High - Decisions, Positioning, Pressure, Composure, Agility, Jumping

This gives me a fairly reliable keeper who's good at getting to the ball, sometimes spills it (as I don't stress high handling) but has decent agility for recovery saves (and my defense is good at mopping up anyway).

Poor positioning CAN be a killer for a keeper unless he's very nippy on his feet and has good decisions and agility, with these stats he can compensate and recover ... without them he'll watch the ball sail into the net if he's poorly positioned.

What I tend to do is purchase keepers who meet my requirements and then try them out for a 'run' if my main keeper is injured - I pick ONE to give a run to and stick to him no matter how badly* he does for at least 4-6 games ... the reason for this is that Keepers more than any other position apart from possibly strikers are heavily 'mental' and so bringing one in and out of the side can destroy their confidence and the last thing you need is a nervous keeper.

Keepers hidden mental stats are crucial to them being 'great' players or not, I'm always nervous when I've a new keeper in goal and try and ensure that he's got a solid defensive line in front of him in his first few matches.

IRL finding a great keeper is one of the hardest things for a manager to do, its one of the reasons keepers transfer least out of any position and also why even big teams with talented managers such as Man Utd find it hard to replace a great keeper when he retires ...

Hope this helps,

Marc
*Unless like one of my kids who looked good on paper he turns transparent and lets in 4 goals from 4 shots, if thats the case I shoot him at dawn the next day ... ok so I transfer listed him, but thats only because I hadn't coded in the other option

Marc Vaughan · 06-01-2005, 03:04 PM

PS> My foible for keepers is to avoid those with high punching attribute as I've had great keepers who've punched in the past have the ball drop straight to an attacker on the edge of the area who promptly returned it into the net ... its cool imho the way people pick up their own personal likes and dislikes about styles in the game, much as irl

Huckleberry · 06-01-2005, 03:10 PM

So the manual says handling and reflexes are important for a keeper and Marc uses neither.

Eaglesfan27 · 06-01-2005, 03:23 PM

Like he said, I think personal style comes into play quite a bit with FM players. For me, I think the keeper is one of the most variable. I'll never take a keeper who doesn't have excellent reflexes (unless I have no absolutely no choice or he is VERY good in every other one of my key keeper attributes.)

Marc Vaughan · 06-01-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

So the manual says handling and reflexes are important for a keeper and Marc uses neither.

Nick from SI write the manual and you'd be amazed at the amount of debates we have in the office over this sort of thing ..... it is largely down to personal preference and style really.

For instance for me, handling and reflexes aren't important because:

My defense defend 'high up the pitch' - this means that by and large unless they're 'broken*' the shots are either from distance (no need to react quickly as he can watch the ball come in) or in close and crowded (in which case hopefully someone will get a block on it or if not then the main thing is positioning as this will mean it'll 'hit' him at least and then its down to jumping on the rebound (ie. agility) to recover the ball ...

Other people at SI defend 'deep' and for them handling and reflexes are much more important, its horses for courses really ..

*Don't under-estimate 'positioning' if a keepers in a 1-on-1 situation with poor positioning he might not cover the goal correctly at all times when the strikers advancing, if he fails to then its as good as giving the striker an empty net to shoot into ..... I don't mind my keeper conceeding, I DO dislike them looking stupid when it happens

jbmagic · 06-01-2005, 03:44 PM

this game seems great.

i cant wait to try fm 2006

i am new to scoocer, so the thing that scares me is setting up the formation style for offense and defense with the strength of your roster. its sounds diffcult.

what great it seems like the formation setting and tendencies does make a difference beside players ratings only. the formation is not costmic.

i really hope there a great manual that comes with fm 2006 for us newbies.

MikeVick7 · 06-01-2005, 03:45 PM

Seriously...all this specific strategy talk is just the thing to make me fire up another career.

Evil...all of you.

Coffee Warlord · 06-01-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

i really hope there a great manual that comes with fm 2006 for us newbies.

There we go. Send SI to my company to design them a spiffy manual for FM 2006.

Desnudo · 06-01-2005, 03:48 PM

I'd like to see a user given the opportunity to write one. They did that for Hearts of Iron II and the manual was excellent. Much more in-depth than your typical game manual.

DanGarion · 06-01-2005, 03:53 PM

How about someone do a FM Wiki? That way it would be a living manual that would evolve as people added to it.

edit. In fact I think a Wiki for ANY of these games, FM, FOF, OOTP, TPB, would be a great way to build an living manual.

Desnudo · 06-01-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangarion

How about I do a FM Wiki? That way it would be a living manual that would evolve as people added to it.

edit. In fact I think a Wiki for ANY of these games, FM, FOF, OOTP, TPB, would be a great way to build an living manual.

Brilliant idea. Please let us know if you need help.

ice4277 · 06-01-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangarion

How about someone do a FM Wiki? That way it would be a living manual that would evolve as people added to it.

edit. In fact I think a Wiki for ANY of these games, FM, FOF, OOTP, TPB, would be a great way to build an living manual.

I know there was an FM wiki at some point. Not sure if its still around or not, but there was a big deal made about it when it first was developed, maybe 3 years ago.

DanGarion · 06-01-2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Brilliant idea. Please let us know if you need help.

Haha... For a free copy of the game I will set up a Wiki so people could do it...

Marc Vaughan · 06-02-2005, 03:42 AM

Quote:

i really hope there a great manual that comes with fm 2006 for us newbies.

We're hoping to improve the help considerably for FM2006 if we can find the
time, I do however think a comprehensive FM wiki is a great idea.

06-01-2005, 01:17 PM	#3
FrogMan Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pintendre, Qc, Canada	thanks for the extra advice, but my slow players are doing pretty well anyway Seriously, how worried? very worried? Would it really mean he will never develop into a good keeper? He was a 1 in positioning last season and has gained 2 points in a season while not having one appearance with the first team... FM __________________ A Black Belt is a White Belt who refused to give up... follow my story: The real life story of a running frog...

06-01-2005, 01:25 PM	#5
FrogMan Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Pintendre, Qc, Canada	yeah, I didn't sign him and probably wouldn't have. Trying to figure out if he's got a future ore not Thanks for the info. I just saw he's got 1 for anticipation, that's is butt ugly... 12 for agility... FM __________________ A Black Belt is a White Belt who refused to give up... follow my story: The real life story of a running frog...

06-01-2005, 01:28 PM	#6
illinifan999 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: VA	1 for anticipation and 3 for position. On the off chance he figures out the ball is coming, he won't be in a position to save it. Are you sure he's not just off to the side of the net eating? __________________ Chicago Eagles 2 time ZFL champions We're "rebuilding"

06-01-2005, 02:39 PM	#9
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I would avoid a keeper with positioning that low. I've had friends try to convince me that the positioning rating isn't that important for keepers and is more important for outfield players, but I've never believed that. A keeper would have to be amazing in every other regard for me to ignore a 3 positioning. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

06-01-2005, 03:01 PM	#10
Marc Vaughan SI Games Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Melbourne, FL	Keepers are a strange bunch, finding a really reliable keeper is something which is essential to make a really great team - but its very hard to do just from surface stats ... especially if you're looking for a keeper who's consistent. I personally go for keepers who have: Low - Eccentricity, Tendancy to punch High - Decisions, Positioning, Pressure, Composure, Agility, Jumping This gives me a fairly reliable keeper who's good at getting to the ball, sometimes spills it (as I don't stress high handling) but has decent agility for recovery saves (and my defense is good at mopping up anyway). Poor positioning CAN be a killer for a keeper unless he's very nippy on his feet and has good decisions and agility, with these stats he can compensate and recover ... without them he'll watch the ball sail into the net if he's poorly positioned. What I tend to do is purchase keepers who meet my requirements and then try them out for a 'run' if my main keeper is injured - I pick ONE to give a run to and stick to him no matter how badly* he does for at least 4-6 games ... the reason for this is that Keepers more than any other position apart from possibly strikers are heavily 'mental' and so bringing one in and out of the side can destroy their confidence and the last thing you need is a nervous keeper. Keepers hidden mental stats are crucial to them being 'great' players or not, I'm always nervous when I've a new keeper in goal and try and ensure that he's got a solid defensive line in front of him in his first few matches. IRL finding a great keeper is one of the hardest things for a manager to do, its one of the reasons keepers transfer least out of any position and also why even big teams with talented managers such as Man Utd find it hard to replace a great keeper when he retires ... Hope this helps, Marc Unless like one of my kids who looked good on paper he turns transparent and lets in 4 goals from 4 shots, if thats the case I shoot him at dawn the next day ... ok so I transfer listed him, but thats only because I hadn't coded in the other option Last edited by Marc Vaughan : 06-01-2005 at 03:02 PM.*

06-01-2005, 01:15 PM	#2
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	I think you should stop buying really slow players. And I would be worried about the keeper positioning.

06-01-2005, 01:22 PM	#4
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	It depends on other factors like anticipation, agility, etc., but I wouldn't sign a keeper with position that bad.

06-01-2005, 02:13 PM	#8
SaintAnselm n00b Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Hampshire/Originally CT	It's interesting you brought this up as it seems like I have seen quite a few keepers that seem solid except for a very low positioning number. I have, like you, tended to stay away from these guys. However, maybe it's possible that high numbers in the other categories cover up for their lack of positioning. One way to tell might be to try and find another keeper with similar numbers who plays and see how his numbers look.

06-01-2005, 03:04 PM	#11
Marc Vaughan SI Games Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Melbourne, FL	PS> My foible for keepers is to avoid those with high punching attribute as I've had great keepers who've punched in the past have the ball drop straight to an attacker on the edge of the area who promptly returned it into the net ... its cool imho the way people pick up their own personal likes and dislikes about styles in the game, much as irl

06-01-2005, 03:10 PM	#12
Huckleberry College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001	So the manual says handling and reflexes are important for a keeper and Marc uses neither. __________________ The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog) College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings

06-01-2005, 03:23 PM	#13
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Like he said, I think personal style comes into play quite a bit with FM players. For me, I think the keeper is one of the most variable. I'll never take a keeper who doesn't have excellent reflexes (unless I have no absolutely no choice or he is VERY good in every other one of my key keeper attributes.) __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

06-01-2005, 03:44 PM	#15
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	this game seems great. i cant wait to try fm 2006 i am new to scoocer, so the thing that scares me is setting up the formation style for offense and defense with the strength of your roster. its sounds diffcult. what great it seems like the formation setting and tendencies does make a difference beside players ratings only. the formation is not costmic. i really hope there a great manual that comes with fm 2006 for us newbies.

06-01-2005, 03:45 PM	#16
MikeVick7 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ron, Mexico	Seriously...all this specific strategy talk is just the thing to make me fire up another career. Evil...all of you. __________________ Hattrick - Seattle Reign (224367)

06-01-2005, 03:48 PM	#18
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	I'd like to see a user given the opportunity to write one. They did that for Hearts of Iron II and the manual was excellent. Much more in-depth than your typical game manual.

06-01-2005, 03:53 PM	#19
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	How about someone do a FM Wiki? That way it would be a living manual that would evolve as people added to it. edit. In fact I think a Wiki for ANY of these games, FM, FOF, OOTP, TPB, would be a great way to build an living manual. __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO! Last edited by DanGarion : 06-01-2005 at 03:56 PM.

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