O'Brien out as 76ers Coach and a Media/Race question.

Deattribution · 05-23-2005, 05:46 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2066717

Quote:

PHILADELPHIA -- Jim O'Brien was fired Monday after one season as coach of the Philadelphia 76ers and replaced by former Portland Trail Blazers coach Maurice Cheeks, one of the most popular players in Philadelphia's franchise history.

O'Brien, a Philadelphia native who played for Saint Joseph's, went 43-39 in his only season and the Sixers were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs.

He was in the first year of a four-year contract that paid him about $4 million a year. O'Brien, though, was not very popular with his players -- most notably former All-Star Chris Webber -- who often complained about their roles.

Cheeks was one of the most popular 76ers from 1978-89 and played on Philadelphia's last championship team, in 1983.

Cheeks was fired March 2 after nearly four seasons as coach of the Trail Blazers. He had a 162-139 record in Portland, the fourth-highest win total in Blazers history.

Cheeks guided the team to the playoffs his first two seasons, but the players hardly made Cheeks' tenure easy -- on or off the court.

The team was nicknamed the "Jail Blazers" after several brushes with the law, many of them involving marijuana possession.

Cheeks also spent seven seasons as an assistant coach for the 76ers and was part of the staff when they went to the NBA Finals in 2001.

Cheeks will be Philadelphia's fourth coach since Larry Brown resigned and left for Detroit following the 2002-03 season. Randy Ayers was fired 52 games into the 2003-04 season and replaced by Chris Ford.

A Philadelphia native who attended Roman Catholic High School and Saint Joseph's, O'Brien is the son-in-law of Hall of Fame coach Jack Ramsay. He led the Sixers to a 10-win improvement from a year ago and they returned to the playoffs, largely on the back of a healthy, happy Allen Iverson.

While O'Brien avoided public spats with Iverson, he did not have the full support of the rest of the team. Some of the younger players, like Samuel Dalembert and Willie Green, felt they did not develop like they should have under O'Brien and were unsure about their roles.

The Sixers also failed to really understand O'Brien's defense, a sticking point even in the postseason.

But Cheeks' return shouldn't come as a surprise. The Trail Blazers turned down Philadelphia's request to speak to Cheeks as a possible replacement for Brown. The former point guard always remained popular with Philly fans and was at the top of the Sixers' short list to take over for Ford.

Now, they'll get their wish.

Now, I know race has nothing to do with Cheeks' being brought in, he seems like a genuinely good guy and solid coach. They had an opportunity to hire a guy who was a former player and popular, and that's fine.

The question though, if things were switched, and O'Brien were black and Cheeks were white, wouldn't the media be up in arms calling it a race issue since O'Brien was only given one year, and took the team to the playoffs?

ageofquarrel · 05-23-2005, 05:49 PM

I dont know about your race question. But I do know that the fans here wanted cheeks since larry brown left. And O'Brien was terrible.

ThunderingHERD · 05-23-2005, 05:53 PM

So you're saying that the media likes to race-bait based on hypotheticals (if the races were reversed, if this coach had been white he would still have is job)? And you think that race-baiting based on hypotheticals of hypotheticals (if this had happened, and the media had reacted in this way) is more dignified?

Deattribution · 05-23-2005, 06:00 PM

Who said anything about either being dignified - or not dignified?

I simply asked whether or not they would have reacted in a different manner.

ThunderingHERD · 05-23-2005, 06:01 PM

Oh, and I don't really think they would, just because it's an NBA team that sort of scrutiny has largely passed (much more so than in other leagues). Now if this was college football, I'm sure you'd hear a lot about it. And maybe it'd have the added bonus of being true.

dawgfan · 05-23-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deattribution

The question though, if things were switched, and O'Brien were black and Cheeks were white, wouldn't the media be up in arms calling it a race issue since O'Brien was only given one year, and took the team to the playoffs?

Up in arms? No. It'd get some attention, probably a little more than the actual situation is, but the NBA has advanced enough in terms of minority hiring for coaches that it's far less of an issue than it is in other sports, especially football.

Buccaneer · 05-23-2005, 06:46 PM

Yeah, advanced enough to reward the coach of the Jail Blazers.

Young Drachma · 05-23-2005, 06:54 PM

Nah, no one cried when Byron Scott was fired and Laurence Frank got the job. The NBA in terms of hiring doesn't have the issues of other sports. Except in ownership.

Antmeister · 05-23-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Up in arms? No. It'd get some attention, probably a little more than the actual situation is, but the NBA has advanced enough in terms of minority hiring for coaches that it's far less of an issue than it is in other sports, especially football.

I'd say I agree with this statement 100%.

Although I am not a Phoenix Suns fan, no one was up in arms out here when Frank Johnson was let go. The consensus was that he was given enough time to do something with this team, but some even commended Johnson for developing some of the talent on the roster today. At that change have most likely proven to be a good call.

JPhillips · 05-24-2005, 08:33 AM

Is there any worse job than NBA head coach? O'Brien keeps taking teams to the playoffs and his reward is getting fired. Sheesh.

Mustang · 05-24-2005, 09:14 AM

I look forward to the day where a black coach or white coach is fired and to the media it will just be a coach being fired and replaced..

Of course, I'm sure the media will find something else..

June 1st, 2040: Oh sure, LeBron James gets to keep his coaching job for 4 years with a .250 winning percentage but, Yao Ming gets fired after 1 year with a .500 winning percentage. Unfair I say! UNFAIR!

Desnudo · 05-24-2005, 12:46 PM

O'Brien was bad at developing young talent in Boston too.

rkmsuf · 05-24-2005, 12:55 PM

Pick any coach in history and they won't win with the 76ers.

Of course they hated O'Brien, he actually expected them to follow a plan that didn't involve f-cking around out there.

korme · 05-24-2005, 05:52 PM

I love AI man. "All these fingers and no rings. I'll do whatever Maurice Cheeks tells me to do. Anything for a championship."

MrBigglesworth · 05-24-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Pick any coach in history and they won't win with the 76ers.

Of course they hated O'Brien, he actually expected them to follow a plan that didn't involve f-cking around out there.

O'Brien is a great guy, but he was horse manure as a coach, and even the most casual fan here could tell. He never played Dalembert until the end of the season, Willie Green had a DNP every night until the Detriot series, Sixers played no defense, and he could never find a way to fit Chris Webber into the team. Terrible. I have partial season tickets, and it was brutal to watch elementary mistakes every game.

Blackadar · 05-24-2005, 09:03 PM

Media? No, they wouldn't be up in arms about it. However, Al Sharpton would be planning a protest and some other black "leaders" would join in. The media would report on the protest because it's news, entertaining and generates controversy.

JimboJ · 05-24-2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustang

I look forward to the day where a black coach or white coach is fired and to the media it will just be a coach being fired and replaced..

Um, that day is today. I haven't heard the media refer to this in any racial terms. The same thing last year when Randy Ayres was fired and replaced by Chris Ford.

The statement should be "I look forward to the day where a black coach or white coach is fired and to FOF Central it will just be a coach being fired and replaced.."

ice4277 · 05-25-2005, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

I love AI man. "All these fingers and no rings. I'll do whatever Maurice Cheeks tells me to do. Anything for a championship."

except take less than 40 shots a game

CraigSca · 05-25-2005, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ice4277

except take less than 40 shots a game

Or show-up for practice.

duckman · 05-25-2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Or show-up for practice.

Practice?! Practice?!

condors · 05-25-2005, 12:08 PM

Iverson actually has been showing up for practice. The problem is when you have Korver and Webber on the court at the same time in the 3/4 postions you are very slow and allows for alot of easy transision baskets for the other team.

Iverson, Green, Igoudala, Webber and Dalambert could be a decent team next season with Korver, Mckie and Jackson off the bench. Championship i don't think so but playoffs probable. If they could pick up a decent role player with their exception that would be a huge plus.

I believe Cheeks can get these guys on the same page and play together (he did a very good job with the jailblazers imho, heck look what happened to them after they fired him, 5-22.) I think the real problem was O'Brien wanted the team to play a certain way but lacked the athletic ability to actually do that and didn't adjust but expected the team to one day "get" his defensive schemes.

rkmsuf · 05-25-2005, 12:15 PM

They'll never win it with Iverson. Never.

He's a great talent no doubt but he's clueless in the team concept. As are most of the players in the league.

wishbone · 05-25-2005, 01:24 PM

If any team has a a problem with players being disrespectful the game, officials, coaches, the law or other players; why would that team hire Maurice Cheeks? He may the coach with the most experience at letting inmates run an asylum. I don't understand what people see in that guy, the Blazers have made a lot of mistakes and the players are ultimately responsible for their actions but he didn't help anything.

MrBigglesworth · 05-25-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wishbone

I don't understand what people see in that guy, the Blazers have made a lot of mistakes and the players are ultimately responsible for their actions but he didn't help anything.

All he did was lead that group to about 50 wins for two years in a tough Western Conference.

wishbone · 05-26-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

All he did was lead that group to about 50 wins for two years in a tough Western Conference.

The Blazers won more games with Mike Dunleavy with similar groups of players.

Maurice Cheeks
01/02 49-33
02/03 50-32
03/04 41-41
04/05 22-33
Went to the playoffs 2 times, 3-7 record, lost his first 6 playoff games.

THe local media seems to be divided about Cheeks, one side says Cheeks is a classy guy and we love him for it; the other side (mostly Dwight Jaynes and the talk radio I've heard) says he is a classy guy but not a good coach. Here is a sampling of their criticism.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=28653
http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=29523
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/03/312850.shtml
http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=28120

condors · 05-26-2005, 11:13 AM

similar group of players?

i disagree Rasheed Wallace, Steve Smith, Damen Stoudmaire, Scottie Pippen , Aruydas Sabonis, Bonzi Wells, Detlef Schremaf, Brian Grant, Greg Anthony, Jermain O'neil and Stacey Augmon are a better cast of guys then the current group.

oh the team did go 5-22 after Mo was gone.

wishbone · 05-26-2005, 12:03 PM

We can argue about players all day but Cheeks had two years with a very similar group and did not win a playoff series. I still wonder what makes anyone think he can relate to players so well. He has had lots of experience with thugs and basketcases and has not improved any of them, he may have made them worse.

05-23-2005, 05:53 PM	#3
ThunderingHERD College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	So you're saying that the media likes to race-bait based on hypotheticals (if the races were reversed, if this coach had been white he would still have is job)? And you think that race-baiting based on hypotheticals of hypotheticals (if this had happened, and the media had reacted in this way) is more dignified? __________________ "I'm losing my edge--to better looking people... with better ideas... and more talent. And who are actually really, really nice." "Everyone's a voyeurist--they're watching me watch them watch me right now." Last edited by ThunderingHERD : 05-23-2005 at 05:54 PM.

05-23-2005, 06:01 PM	#5
ThunderingHERD College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Oh, and I don't really think they would, just because it's an NBA team that sort of scrutiny has largely passed (much more so than in other leagues). Now if this was college football, I'm sure you'd hear a lot about it. And maybe it'd have the added bonus of being true. __________________ "I'm losing my edge--to better looking people... with better ideas... and more talent. And who are actually really, really nice." "Everyone's a voyeurist--they're watching me watch them watch me right now."

05-23-2005, 06:54 PM	#8
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Nah, no one cried when Byron Scott was fired and Laurence Frank got the job. The NBA in terms of hiring doesn't have the issues of other sports. Except in ownership. __________________ Current Dynasty:The Zenith of Professional Basketball Careers (FBPB/FBCB) FBCB / FPB3 Mods

05-24-2005, 09:14 AM	#11
Mustang Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wisconsin	I look forward to the day where a black coach or white coach is fired and to the media it will just be a coach being fired and replaced.. Of course, I'm sure the media will find something else.. June 1st, 2040: Oh sure, LeBron James gets to keep his coaching job for 4 years with a .250 winning percentage but, Yao Ming gets fired after 1 year with a .500 winning percentage. Unfair I say! UNFAIR! __________________ You, you will regret what you have done this day. I will make you regret ever being born. Your going to wish you never left your mothers womb, where it was warm and safe... and wet. i am going to show you pain you never knew existed, you are going to see a whole new spectrum of pain, like a Rainboooow. But! This rainbow is not just like any other rainbow, its...

05-24-2005, 12:55 PM	#13
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Pick any coach in history and they won't win with the 76ers. Of course they hated O'Brien, he actually expected them to follow a plan that didn't involve f-cking around out there. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

05-23-2005, 05:49 PM	#2
ageofquarrel H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Feb 2004	I dont know about your race question. But I do know that the fans here wanted cheeks since larry brown left. And O'Brien was terrible.

05-23-2005, 06:00 PM	#4
Deattribution College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2003	Who said anything about either being dignified - or not dignified? I simply asked whether or not they would have reacted in a different manner.

05-23-2005, 06:46 PM	#7
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Yeah, advanced enough to reward the coach of the Jail Blazers.

05-24-2005, 08:33 AM	#10
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Is there any worse job than NBA head coach? O'Brien keeps taking teams to the playoffs and his reward is getting fired. Sheesh.

05-24-2005, 12:46 PM	#12
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	O'Brien was bad at developing young talent in Boston too.

05-24-2005, 05:52 PM	#14
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	I love AI man. "All these fingers and no rings. I'll do whatever Maurice Cheeks tells me to do. Anything for a championship."

05-24-2005, 09:03 PM	#16
Blackadar Retired Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fantasyland	Media? No, they wouldn't be up in arms about it. However, Al Sharpton would be planning a protest and some other black "leaders" would join in. The media would report on the protest because it's news, entertaining and generates controversy.

05-25-2005, 12:08 PM	#21
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Iverson actually has been showing up for practice. The problem is when you have Korver and Webber on the court at the same time in the 3/4 postions you are very slow and allows for alot of easy transision baskets for the other team. Iverson, Green, Igoudala, Webber and Dalambert could be a decent team next season with Korver, Mckie and Jackson off the bench. Championship i don't think so but playoffs probable. If they could pick up a decent role player with their exception that would be a huge plus. I believe Cheeks can get these guys on the same page and play together (he did a very good job with the jailblazers imho, heck look what happened to them after they fired him, 5-22.) I think the real problem was O'Brien wanted the team to play a certain way but lacked the athletic ability to actually do that and didn't adjust but expected the team to one day "get" his defensive schemes.

05-25-2005, 12:15 PM	#22
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	They'll never win it with Iverson. Never. He's a great talent no doubt but he's clueless in the team concept. As are most of the players in the league. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

05-25-2005, 01:24 PM	#23
wishbone High School JV Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hillsboro OR	If any team has a a problem with players being disrespectful the game, officials, coaches, the law or other players; why would that team hire Maurice Cheeks? He may the coach with the most experience at letting inmates run an asylum. I don't understand what people see in that guy, the Blazers have made a lot of mistakes and the players are ultimately responsible for their actions but he didn't help anything.

05-26-2005, 11:13 AM	#26
condors College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	similar group of players? i disagree Rasheed Wallace, Steve Smith, Damen Stoudmaire, Scottie Pippen , Aruydas Sabonis, Bonzi Wells, Detlef Schremaf, Brian Grant, Greg Anthony, Jermain O'neil and Stacey Augmon are a better cast of guys then the current group. oh the team did go 5-22 after Mo was gone.

05-26-2005, 12:03 PM	#27
wishbone High School JV Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hillsboro OR	We can argue about players all day but Cheeks had two years with a very similar group and did not win a playoff series. I still wonder what makes anyone think he can relate to players so well. He has had lots of experience with thugs and basketcases and has not improved any of them, he may have made them worse.

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