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05-13-2005, 08:55 AM
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#1 | ||
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Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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POL - Base closures
a necessary evil, in that all the bases and mini bases everywhere is inefficient and needs some fat-trimming BUT it will really hurt some communities including my own.
All those senators, both parties, that ran on the "I can save our base" platform are scrambling now. 33 Major Bases Would Close Under Plan By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago WASHINGTON - The Pentagon will propose shutting 150 military installations from Maine to Hawaii, including 33 major bases, The Associated Press learned Friday, triggering the first round of base closures in a decade and an intense struggle by communities to save their facilities. ADVERTISEMENT More than 100 other smaller facilities would be closed, including scores of Reserve and National Guard installations. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has said the move would save $48.8 billion over 20 years while reshaping the military for America's expected 21st century adversaries. The Pentagon has proposed eliminating scores of Reserve and National Guard bases from coast to coast, part of Rumsfeld's effort to promote "jointness" between the active-duty and reserve units. "Our current arrangements, designed for the Cold War, must give way to the new demands of the war against extremism and other evolving 21st Century challenges," Rumsfeld said in a news release obtained by the AP. Among the major closures is Ellsworth Air Force Base in South Dakota, home to 29 B-1B bombers, half the nation's fleet of the aircraft, and the state's second largest employer. That would deal a potential political setback to Republican freshman Sen. John Thune, who had claimed he could protect the base if elected during his campaign to defeat former Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle. Rumsfeld also recommended closing the Naval Station in Pascagoula, Miss., which barely survived previous base closure rounds. The decision was a blow to Sen. Trent Lott (news, bio, voting record), R-Miss., who had fought the 1995 round of closures. At stake are 844 military jobs and 112 civilian jobs.
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL Last edited by Flasch186 : 05-13-2005 at 08:56 AM. |
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05-13-2005, 09:17 AM
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#2 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Thus proving that the electorate has absolutely no idea how things work in Washington. The idea that a freshman senator could protect a base from closing is ludicrous. |
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05-13-2005, 09:25 AM
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#3 |
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Rider Of Rohan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep
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(AP) -- A list of military facilities the U.S. Defense Department recommended be closed:
Alabama Abbott U.S. Army Reserve Center, Tuskegee Anderson U.S. Army Reserve Center, Troy Armed Forces Reserve Center, Mobile BG William P. Screws U.S. Army Reserve Center, Montgomery Fort Ganey Army National Guard Reserve Center, Mobile Fort Hanna Army National Guard Reserve Center, Birmingham Gary U.S. Army Reserve Center, Enterprise Navy Recruiting District Headquarters, Montgomery Navy Reserve Center, Tuscaloosa The Adjutant General Bldg, AL Army National Guard, Montgomery Wright U.S. Army Reserve Center Alaska Kulis Air Guard Station Arizona Air Force Research Lab, Mesa Allen Hall Armed Forces Reserve Center, Tucson Arkansas El Dorado Armed Forces Reserve Center Stone U.S. Army Reserve Center, Pine Bluff California Armed Forces Reserve Center, Bell Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Oakland Defense Finance and Accounting Service, San Bernardino Defense Finance and Accounting Service, San Diego Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Seaside Naval Support Activity Corona Naval Weapons Station Seal Beach, Detachment Concord Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Encino Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Los Angeles Onizuka Air Force Station Riverbank Army Ammunition Plant Connecticut Sgt. Libby U.S. Army Reserve Center, New Haven Submarine Base New London Turner U.S. Army Reserve Center, Fairfield U.S. Army Reserve Center Maintenance Support Facility, Middletown Delaware Kirkwood U.S. Army Reserve Center, Newark Florida Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Orlando Navy Reserve Center, St. Petersburg Georgia Fort Gillem Fort McPherson Inspector/Instructor, Rome Naval Air Station Atlanta Naval Supply Corps School, Athens U.S. Army Reserve Center, Columbus Hawaii Army National Guard Reserve Center, Honokaa Idaho Navy Reserve Center, Pocatello Illinois Armed Forces Reserve Center, Carbondale Navy Reserve Center, Forest Park Indiana Navy Marine Corps Reserve Center, Grissom Air Reserve Base, Bunker Hill Navy Recruiting District Headquarters, Indianapolis Navy Reserve Center, Evansville Newport Chemical Depot U.S. Army Reserve Center, Lafayette U.S. Army Reserve Center, Seston Iowa Navy Reserve Center, Cedar Rapids Navy Reserve Center, Sioux City Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Dubuque Kansas Kansas Army Ammunition Plant Kentucky Army National Guard Reserve Center, Paducah Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Lexington Navy Reserve Center, Lexington U.S. Army Reserve Center, Louisville U.S. Army Reserve Center, Maysville Louisiana Baton Rouge Army National Guard Reserve Center Naval Support Activity, New Orleans Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Baton Rouge Roberts U.S. Army Reserve Center, Baton Rouge Maine Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Limestone Naval Reserve Center, Bangor Naval Shipyard Portsmouth Maryland Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Patuxent River Navy Reserve Center, Adelphi Pfc. Flair U.S. Army Reserve Center, Frederick Massachusetts Malony U.S. Army Reserve Center Otis Air Guard Base Westover U.S. Army Reserve Center, Citopee Michigan Navy Reserve Center Marquette Parisan U.S. Army Reserve Center, Lansing Selfridge Army Activity W.K. Kellogg Airport Air Guard Station Minnesota Navy Reserve Center, Duluth Mississippi Mississippi Army Ammunition Plant Naval Station, Pascagoula U.S. Army Reserve Center, Vicksburg Missouri Army National Guard Reserve Center, Jefferson Barracks Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Kansas City Defense Finance and Accounting Service, St. Louis Marine Corps Support Center, Kansas City Navy Recruiting District Headquarters, Kansas Navy Reserve Center, Cape Girardeau Montana Galt Hall U.S. Army Reserve Center, Great Falls Nebraska Army National Guard Reserve Center, Columbus Army National Guard Reserve Center, Grand Island Army National Guard Reserve Center, Kearny Naval Recruiting District Headquarters, Omaha Navy Reserve Center, Lincoln Nevada Hawthorne Army Depot New Hampshire Doble U.S. Army Reserve Center, Portsmouth Naval Shipyard Portsmouth New Jersey Fort Monmouth Inspector/Instructor Center, West Trenton Kilmer U.S. Army Reserve Center, Edison New Mexico Cannon Air Force Base Jenkins Armed Forces Reserve Center, Albuquerque New York Armed Forces Reserve Center, Amityville Army National Guard Reserve Center, Niagra Falls Carpenter U.S. Army Reserve Center, Poughkeepsie Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Rome Navy Recruiting District Headquarters, Buffalo Navy Reserve Center Glenn Falls Navy Reserve Center Horsehead Navy Reserve Center Watertown Niagra Falls International Airport Air Guard Station North Carolina Navy Reserve Center, Asheville Niven U.S. Army Reserve Center, Albermarle Ohio Army National Guard Reserve Center, Mansfield Army National Guard Reserve Center, Westerville Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Dayton Mansfield Lahm Municipal Airport Air Guard Station Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Akron Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Cleveland Parrott U.S. Army Reserve Center, Kenton U.S. Army Reserve Center, Whitehall Oklahoma Armed Forces Reserve Center Broken Arrow Armed Forces Reserve Center Muskogee Army National Guard Reserve Center Tishomingo Krowse U.S. Army Reserve Center, Oklahoma City Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Tulsa Oklahoma City (95th) Pennsylvania Bristol Engineering Field Activity Northeast Kelly Support Center Naval Air Station Willow Grove Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Reading North Penn U.S. Army Reserve Center, Morristown Pittsburgh International Airport Air Reserve Station Serrenti U.S. Army Reserve Center, Scranton U.S. Army Reserve Center Bloomsburg U.S. Army Reserve Center Lewisburg U.S. Army Reserve Center Williamsport W. Reese U.S. Army Reserve Center/OMS, Chester Puerto Rico Army National Guard Reserve Center, Humacao Lavergne U.S. Army Reserve Center, Bayamon Rhode Island Harwood U.S. Army Reserve Center, Providence USARC Bristol South Carolina Defense Finance and Accounting Service, Charleston South Naval Facilities Engineering Command South Dakota Ellsworth Air Force Base Tennessee U.S. Army Reserve Area Maintenance Support Facility, Kingsport Texas Army National Guard Reserve Center No. 2, Dallas Army National Guard Reserve Center (Hondo Pass), El Paso Army National Guard Reserve Center, California Crossing Army National Guard Reserve Center, Ellington Army National Guard Reserve Center, Lufkin Army National Guard Reserve Center, Marshall Army National Guard Reserve Center, New Braunfels Brooks City Base Defense Finance and Accounting Service, San Antonio Lone Star Army Ammunition Plant Naval Station, Ingleside Navy Reserve Center, Lubbock Navy Reserve Center, Orange Red River Army Depot U.S. Army Reserve Center No. 2, Houston Utah Deseret Chemical Depot Virginia Fort Monroe Washington 1LT Richard H. Walker U.S. Army Reserve Center Army National Guard Reserve Center, Everett Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Tacoma U.S. Army Reserve Center, Fort Lawton Vancouver Barracks West Virginia Bias U.S. Army Reserve Center, Huntington Fairmont U.S. Army Reserve Center Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Moundsville Wisconsin Gen. Mitchell International Airport ARS Navy Reserve Center, La Crosse Navy-Marine Corps Reserve Center, Madison Olson U.S. Army Reserve Center, Madison U.S. Army Reserve Center, O'Connell Wyoming Army Aviation Support Facility, Cheyenne Army National Guard Reserve Center, Thermopolis
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It's not the years...it's the mileage. Last edited by WSUCougar : 05-13-2005 at 10:04 AM. |
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05-13-2005, 09:29 AM
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#4 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Do my eyes deceive? I dont see any Jacksonville!!! WOOHOO!!!!!
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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05-13-2005, 09:36 AM
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#5 | |
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lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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And Virginia avoids the chopping block... just like I told everyone around here, but no one would believe me..
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Text Sports Network - Bringing you statistical information for several FOF MP leagues in one convenient site Quote:
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05-13-2005, 09:37 AM
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#6 |
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General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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:o
I at first misread that second Arizona listing as 'Alien Hall Armed Forces Reserve Center.' |
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05-13-2005, 09:37 AM
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#7 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Maybe someone more in the know can answer this question for me.
Does it really make sense to close down all these guard and reserve bases when we are relying on the guard and reserve to be active duty soldiers? |
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05-13-2005, 09:40 AM
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#8 |
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Pro Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
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It looks mostly like (based on the partial list) that it's a lot of support-level stuff. The only significant major bases I see on that list are Ellsworth, SD, McPherson, GA, and (a bit surprising), the sub base at New London. As that is one of our primary mainland sub bases (along with Bangor, WA), I wonder where all the boats are going to base out of? Norfolk? Maybe I'm not aware of issues surrounding New London, but it seemed like an important base at one time.
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05-13-2005, 09:41 AM
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#9 |
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Rider Of Rohan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep
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I agree, Wolfpack. I was also surprised to see the Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth, NH.
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It's not the years...it's the mileage. |
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05-13-2005, 09:52 AM
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#10 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
I read that as the Army Reserve presence at the PNS. I don't think they're closing the Shipyard. |
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05-13-2005, 09:56 AM
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#11 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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Quote:
Why is this any more ridiculous than a 4 term Senator protecting a base from closing? The amount of time served should not trump the battle of ideas. |
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05-13-2005, 09:56 AM
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#12 | |
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General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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Quote:
hahahahaha |
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05-13-2005, 10:04 AM
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#13 |
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Rider Of Rohan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep
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CNN.com just updated their list, so I've edited mine above.
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It's not the years...it's the mileage. |
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05-13-2005, 10:06 AM
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#14 |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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New London appears to be headed to Kings Bay (GA)
Chk Foxnews.com, they've got a .pdf of a spreadsheet that shows all the proposed net losses/gains by base & military/civilian. Flasch, IIRC, Jax actually gets a net increase, while Pensacola takes a similar net loss.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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05-13-2005, 10:09 AM
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#15 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MA
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I live in Groton, CT. There is a massive Navy base here that everyone is freaking out about, worried its going to close. New London is the bordering town, not actually sure if they are one and the same. It pretty much keeps the town running, nearly everyone I meet held a job somehow related to it.
Glad it doesn't affect me in any way. Last edited by jeff061 : 05-13-2005 at 10:17 AM. |
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05-13-2005, 10:13 AM
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#16 |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MA
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According to the pic on cnn.com, they are one in the same. Major bad news for CT.
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05-13-2005, 10:29 AM
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#17 |
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College Prospect
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
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The biggest problem with 34 of these bases is that they are on the "worst toxic waste dumps in the country" list.. they are going to cost more to cleanup than it will be to continue to operate them. So whats the Pentagon want to do? Make the Military exempt from the EPA, so they never have to clean these sites up.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=750170 Last edited by chinaski : 05-13-2005 at 10:30 AM. Reason: forgot duh link |
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05-13-2005, 10:53 AM
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#18 |
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High School JV
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Florida Swampland
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Think I might have dodged a bullet. Almost took a job with DFAS out at the Navy base here in Pensacola but decided to wait until the base closure list came-out. Turns-out DFAS is closing it's doors.
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05-13-2005, 12:47 PM
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#19 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Which makes my above comment (on Portsmouth), kind of moot. Maine sees 3 closures (including Portsmouth), including two (Portsmouth & Brunswick) which are major employers in their respective regions. Word on the street (in Maine) is that this may convince moderate Republican senator Olympia Snowe (who's generally unbeatable) to retire. Interesting stuff. |
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05-13-2005, 12:50 PM
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#20 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Beats me. But it's perhaps all part of Rumsfeld's plan to make the Armed Forces "leaner & meaner". Meaning, I believe, that soldiers will be hungry (but thinner) due to a lack of food and pissed off at the lack of equipment and training facilities. With these things spurring them on, they're sure to give the enemy hell! |
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05-13-2005, 01:09 PM
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#21 | |
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"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Dude. Relax. |
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05-13-2005, 01:21 PM
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#22 | |
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Banned
Join Date: May 2003
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Quote:
Yeah. Why does he hate our freedom? |
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05-13-2005, 01:25 PM
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#23 | |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
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Quote:
Well, then stop opposing budget increases for Defense. I'm always amused when the people spend years complaining about how much money the Defense Department spends, and then get all antsy that their community may end up losing a base as the military has to get leaner and meaner to fulfill their obligations under their budget.
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-- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities |
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05-13-2005, 01:26 PM
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#24 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Quote:
Im for raising it AND the tax increases necessary to protect us properly 
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Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL |
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05-13-2005, 01:27 PM
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#25 | |
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"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
When I said, "Dude", that meant you too. Sorry for the confusion.  |
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05-13-2005, 01:31 PM
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#26 | |
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College Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Quote:
Yeah, because the government doesn't collect enough to do it now. 
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Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it. - Lou Holtz |
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05-13-2005, 01:33 PM
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#27 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
They aren't removing the NG/R's from duty, they're just relocating their training sites. For the very reason you mention, NG's/R's will have more of their training integrated into regular units instead of maintaining duplicate facilities. This is right in line with current policy, which is to make the various elements function more smoothly together. Same thing as plans for the new multi-service aircraft (the name of which escapes me at the moment), warplane that will be used by more than one branch of the service -- trainees will be from all branches using that plane, instead of maintaining a Navy training station, an Army training base, etc.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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05-13-2005, 01:39 PM
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#28 | |
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Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Quote:
I don't know about that. The shipyard is considered part of Maine, and they're showing more than 4,000 jobs lost. SW Maine/SW New Hampshire will be one of the huge impact areas of this action. Here's a local story. I'm sure it will be the number one story here for awhile. http://www.unionleader.com/articles_...?article=54691 Last edited by Solecismic : 05-13-2005 at 01:42 PM. |
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05-13-2005, 01:44 PM
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#29 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Where did I say that? |
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05-13-2005, 01:46 PM
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#30 | |
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Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Quote:
If you own property or have a job in the service industry, or interact with the community in any way, it'll affect you in some way. You're talking about more than 7,000 good jobs leaving your immediate area. That will have a significant effect on the local economy. Everyone will bear the burden in some manner. |
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05-13-2005, 01:59 PM
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#31 |
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"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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I know that if they close Barksdale AFB, my house instantly becomes a giant paperweight with a foundation. Those things are cool, but they don't bring in as much as a house would when selling.
So things get even worse after a worker loses his job....especially if he/she has to relocate and can't sell their old home. Last edited by Dutch : 05-13-2005 at 02:00 PM. |
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05-13-2005, 02:00 PM
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#32 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Henderson, Nevada
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Im surpirsed Hawthorne Army Depot is on the list.
Oh and those Army Reserve Closures, they're mostly company level buildings (size of a local Wal Mart). Those really wonty affect the community much. But am surpirsed that Ft. Mc Phereson is there also.
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Toujour Pret |
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05-13-2005, 02:01 PM
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#33 |
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General Manager
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Town of Flower Mound
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This is actually good news for El Paso...Fort Bliss will be gaining 11,000 more military positions. Should help to pump up the economy in the North East side of town...
http://www.borderlandnews.com/apps/p.../50513001/1001
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UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO Last edited by JeeberD : 05-13-2005 at 02:03 PM. |
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05-13-2005, 02:15 PM
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#34 |
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Pro Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Following up JIMGA's post about the subs, isn't that the base all the boomers sortie from in the Atlantic? At least they'll be well-guarded by 688's (not that many platforms in the world can pick up on an Ohio-class boat anyway).
On another point brought up, I'm not sure seniority of Senators has a whole lot to do with this, since both of NC's senators are actually first-termers, but NC is only getting a couple of reserve centers shuttered. NC still has the largest concentration of military bases anywhere, I think (Bragg, LeJeune, Pope AFB, Cherry Point MCAS, etc). |
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05-13-2005, 02:20 PM
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#35 |
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Pro Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Dola...link from local NC paper on closures
NC paper's report on base closures Essentially, NC isn't really affected that much by the closures, with Pope AFB being the big loser in the state while other areas generally added. |
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05-13-2005, 02:31 PM
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#36 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Let me point out that I was speculating, I still haven't seen anything on specific unit realignments yet. It just seemed kind of obvious, net loss from there, net gain down here, similar purpose facilities, but I am just guessing. On the point of who lost/who gained, I think there's at least a couple of things more in play at this stage than Senatorial power, basically a couple of things I saw in reading some analysis of this subject last night. First, where do we need them to be? Our focus is no longer on Europe as the source of the primary threat, and realignment will ultimately reflect that, with fewer assets in the northeast and more heading for the west coast to keep an eye on the Pacific. Also, the southeast is likely to be among the gainers because of the lower cost of real estate on average than some other regions.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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05-13-2005, 02:33 PM
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#37 | |
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MA
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Quote:
I'm renting in Groton now and have been in the process of buying in the Providence, RI area for the past couple months. |
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05-13-2005, 03:05 PM
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#38 | |
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Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
Whew. That was a close one. They almost closed the Air National Guard at Ellington where Dubya spent his military enlistment... SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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05-13-2005, 09:39 PM
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#39 | |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Quote:
The thought amongst many of the electorate in this area was that the President HATED Daschle so much that having him in office would have been a liability more than a benefit. |
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