Mogul 2K6 a sleeper?

[Ben E Lou]

I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago, that it seemed like Clay was hanging around his boards a good bit more, and that I had cautiously optimistic hopes for BM2K6. Well, a post at OOTP from a beta guy also has me encouraged:

I've been playing around with a beta of the new Baseball Mogul, and theres alot of promise feature wise in this edition.

There are new personality ratings... players have a demeanor (eg. modest, greedy), they have friends on other teams that they might demand a trade to if they are unhappy. A player can also be unhappy if he is on a losing team, has a poor role, etc. Someone with a certain personality type will indicate he sign for whoever offers him the most money, another player might prefer to play somewhere warm. It really adds a whole layer of depth to the game

Player negotations have been expanded a great deal... check out the pic.

The minor leagues have been expanded. Theres a true amateur draft now

Automatic expansion and contraction as you go through the years... the idea is that the Devil Rays/DBacks would be added after the 1997 season.

The interferance is now easily skinnable... and theres all these fancy color effects. Hot diggity.

Historical rookies and an all time leader board will be present... you would be able to draft Barry Bonds in 1984 or whatever, for instance.

There are some nice subtle changes such as a summary screen, that shows all injured players, your top prospects etc. Theres also arbitration and major league service time. Some other things such as fan favorites have yet to be implemented.

And its got all the good stuff its had for years, Lahman database, very fast simulating, easy to use interferances.

Unfortunately it doesnt look like making in game decisions made the cut, and there arent lefty/righty splits... and there is no Rule 5 draft/Waivers... in any case, the new features are overwhelming.

The things that aren't in there such as l/r splits and no rule 5 draft don't really concern me that much. As one who wants to look at large chunks of time rather than day-to-day stuff in baseball, I've found setting four lineups in OOTP to be more of an annoyance than anything else. At any rate, if Mogul has some solid updates, and keeps the sim speed and easy-to-use interface, I might find myself playing it when it is released. Here are a couple of screenies the guy posted:





I'd really love to see this franchise take a few steps forward this year, and I'm still feeling optimistic--and a little less cautiuosly optimistic.

[Blackadar]

I wouldn't even think of Baseball Mogul until there have been a number of outstanding reviews. Clay's "development" of that title has been laughable.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I wouldn't even think of Baseball Mogul until there have been a number of outstanding reviews. Clay's "development" of that title has been laughable.

I hear ya, but as I said, things look quite different this time around. He has a larger beta team, and has been *FAR* more interactive with the community than I've ever seen him.

Comments from another beta tester:

Technically, Clay hasn't put out a date yet, but on the site from 2k6, it says March 15th, but i'm expecting a late March release. Deadlines aren't always met, so don't get your hopes up

Some of the final additions of 2k6

* NEW All-Time Leaders! Active and all-time career and single-season leaders tracked for over 75 stats. See if Barry Bonds can break Hank Aaron's record. Or go back in time and see Ted Williams' career without military service.

* NEW Historical Rookies! Start in any historical season and Baseball Mogul will automatically include minor and major league players for every team. As you build your dynasty, real rookies from seasons past become available for the Amateur Draft.
o If you wish your favorite team never traded your favorite player, now you can go back in time in change history!
* NEW Player Personalities and Morale! Manage the individual personalities of your team to build the right team chemistry.
o Do you demote a struggling player even though he's a fan favorite?
o Do you sign your star pitcher to a big extension just to keep him happy in the stretch run?
* NEW Expanded Contract Negotiations! Arbitration. Free agency. Use player options and no-trade clauses to sweeten the deal and land the best players.
* NEW Minor League System! Manage up to 100 players in your farm system. From draft day until retirement, you are in control of the entire organization. Track player development using new written scouting reports and stats for high school, college and every minor league level.
* Updated rosters! Detailed career stats through Opening Day 2005, including over 10,000 players.

you heard him right folks, 10,000 players! There's many more new features, but I think I wanna keep you guys on the edge of your seat!

Another beta guy referred to it as "revolutionary. The best upgrade over any other version....."

Granted, I'd imagine some of the beta guys are hardcore Mogul players, and perhaps have some fanboyism, but there is evidence beyond just those comments. We'll see how it pans out, bu tI just wanted to highlight my thoughts for those who have perhaps completely written this series off (as I almost had myself).

[bbo]

This is good news. I always had "fun" with the earlier versions of mogul. OOTP wasn't bad but I had more fun playing Mogul. Hopefully Clay is starting to turn things around.
Thanks for the info Skydog.

Brian

[Blackadar]

I do appreciate the info Skydog. I just feel that I got burned on some of Clay's earlier BM titles. The supposed upgrades either didn't exist, were buggy or hurt the overall game.

To be totally candid, I'm as likely to pirate his next title as I am to buy it. Which is to say neither scenario is likely gonna happen.

[21C]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Another beta guy referred to it as "revolutionary. The best upgrade over any other version....."

Take that comment with a grain of salt - it comes from a self-professed post whore.

I'm a long-time supporter of Mogul ( I ran a Mogul league for about 4 years and I've hung out at the Sports Mogul board since its inception ) and even I'm not convinced that the new version has what it takes to bring it up to the 21st Century ( which reminds me - any chance of changing my screen name from 21c to 21C since it's supposed to stand for 21st century but I errantly put a lower case "c" in by mistake? ).

If you haven't played Mogul in a while, you may see significant changes but it is basically the same game it was when it was released in 1997(?).

BTW Clay always has a greater presence on his board whenever a game is released. He is pretty good in that way - just don't expect many improvements after May.

[MizzouRah]

I always hope the text sim genre does well! It's been a long time since I played any Mogul game, but I did have lots of fun years ago with baseball.

Thanks for the info SD, let us know when you hear more.


Todd

[CraigSca]

I actually bought Mogul last year. One of the things I didn't like is the way scouting works. You spend a lot of money on scouting and the ratings of the players automatically seem to be dead-on. Instead of evaluating talent for how well they performed, it basically became a look at the guy with the higher rating because there was very little variance in performance. Horde the guys with the high ratings (which was easy because a great number of these guys were ignored in the FA market) and you have a winner.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by 21c

Take that comment with a grain of salt - it comes from a self-professed post whore.

JeeberD posts over there, too???

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Mogul franchise has been asleep for so long, I believe "sleeper" is a term that can be used pretty easily.

[Ksyrup]

I would really like to see this work, but I haven't bought a BBM game since the 1999 or 2000 version, and I'm not sure I'll jump in until a few folks from here give it the "penis nailed to a board" () stamp of approval.

[Ksyrup]

That button should work with age as well...

[gstelmack]

I like how you can just click the box in the upper-left of the player window to change Mike Mussina's ERA. Were it that easy to improve a player in real life

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I like how you can just click the box in the upper-left of the player window to change Mike Mussina's ERA. Were it that easy to improve a player in real life

Yeah, that's pretty funny. That was put in for the 2K3 version, I think, but the syntax is still a little weird. What it actually does is change what stat is used for the 5-year bar-graph.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Yeah, that's pretty funny. That was put in for the 2K3 version, I think, but the syntax is still a little weird. What it actually does is change what stat is used for the 5-year bar-graph.

I figured that, but that wouldn't have been fun to post about...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I figured that, but that wouldn't have been fun to post about...

[Honolulu Blue]

The lefty/righty splits are a MAJOR part of baseball and I refuse to consider any baseball text sim that doesn't have them, no matter what the other features are.

[TLK]

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

The lefty/righty splits are a MAJOR part of baseball and I refuse to consider any baseball text sim that doesn't have them, no matter what the other features are.

This has been a major complaint since day one. Why hasn't it been fixed?

[Ben E Lou]

Turns out I'll be doing a BM2K6 preview thread very soon. Clay just sent me a beta build.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by TheLionKing

This has been a major complaint since day one. Why hasn't it been fixed?

I don't know Clay's customer base very well to know who gives him feedback. However, for my personal tastes, I find the lefty/righty lineups in OOTP to be more tedious than anything else. Maybe it is because baseball is a 162-game season, and I played SO many 162-game seasons game-by-game with Statis Pro (dice and cards), Microleague, and Strat-O-Matic, but I'm just not that interested in that level of detailed lineup setting in a baseball game.

[maximus]

OOTP is the shiznitt (or however they say it)

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I don't know Clay's customer base very well to know who gives him feedback. However, for my personal tastes, I find the lefty/righty lineups in OOTP to be more tedious than anything else. Maybe it is because baseball is a 162-game season, and I played SO many 162-game seasons game-by-game with Statis Pro (dice and cards), Microleague, and Strat-O-Matic, but I'm just not that interested in that level of detailed lineup setting in a baseball game.

I hear you. This may seem contradictory, but while on the one hand I'd really like to see Solecismic tackle a detailed, in-depth baseball sim, I can also easily see the appeal of playing a much more simple text-sim like BBM. I had a lot of fun with it when it first came out, and while I recognized its inherent limitations, I also accepted it for what it was - a fun little sim that was easy to play and not bogged down with too much micromanagement - I could play 10 seasons quite quickly.

I guess what I'm saying is, if a text-sim is going to go all out for authenticity and complexity, it better get it right. Otherwise I'd rather not deal with all the micromanagement and complexity and just stick with a more simple version. This is the primary reason I just haven't ever gotten into OOTP - it just hasn't ever felt "right" to me, and so the complexity just wasn't worth the effort. I'd rather play BBM than OOTP (but what I really want is Jim's version of a baseball text sim).

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I hear you. This may seem contradictory, but while on the one hand I'd really like to see Solecismic tackle a detailed, in-depth baseball sim, I can also easily see the appeal of playing a much more simple text-sim like BBM. I had a lot of fun with it when it first came out, and while I recognized its inherent limitations, I also accepted it for what it was - a fun little sim that was easy to play and not bogged down with too much micromanagement - I could play 10 seasons quite quickly.

I guess what I'm saying is, if a text-sim is going to go all out for authenticity and complexity, it better get it right. Otherwise I'd rather not deal with all the micromanagement and complexity and just stick with a more simple version. This is the primary reason I just haven't ever gotten into OOTP - it just hasn't ever felt "right" to me, and so the complexity just wasn't worth the effort. I'd rather play BBM than OOTP (but what I really want is Jim's version of a baseball text sim).

Good post.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Turns out I'll be doing a BM2K6 preview thread very soon. Clay just sent me a beta build.

Nice

i always love reading your review. Your so honest.

how do you get the connections to try games out? your one lucky dog

[CraigSca]

Actually, I'd like to see complex and simple at the same time. Something I think FOF and TCY both do quite well.

[Huckleberry]

L/R Splits don't have to be as tedious as setting 4 lineups to impact the macro level of a baseball sim.

A team with absolutely no lefties (or righties) in the bullpen or on the bench should perform worse in late-inning situations than a team with a decent mixture. The opposition would be able to maximize matchups every time.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

L/R Splits don't have to be as tedious as setting 4 lineups to impact the macro level of a baseball sim.

A team with absolutely no lefties (or righties) in the bullpen or on the bench should perform worse in late-inning situations than a team with a decent mixture. The opposition would be able to maximize matchups every time.

You could be right. Perhaps it is just the way that it is implemented in OOTP that has me soured to the idea.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Actually, I'd like to see complex and simple at the same time. Something I think FOF and TCY both do quite well.

Hmm. I guess that depends on how you define "simple". The FOF games have a great deal of micromanagement possible and also go quite in-depth into the measurable traits of the players and other personnel in the game universe. In that respect these games are certainly complex. As for simple, I suppose the game could be played in a pretty simplified way if you utilize the AI suggestion features, i.e. let the AI handle gameplans, free agency, drafting, time management, recruiting, etc.

If this is what you mean Craig, I guess I agree, but what that seems to require then is an AI system that does an acceptable job of automating your tasks for you, or perhaps more importantly it places a lot of pressure on the interface and the game design to make it easier for the user to simplify these tasks, yet retain some complexity through greater options in how to automate (and ensuring the actual implementation matches the user's expectations of how changes in settings will affect results).

I never allowed the AI to do anything for me in TCY because knowing these areas were customizable implied that an advantage could be gained through strategic alterations of these settings. I enjoyed the recruiting process, so the complexity there wasn't an issue (though I think the interface could be improved to better group needed information); on the other hand, time management was a huge pain in the ass. Jim did make an attempt to add some customizable automation to this task in a subsequent patch, but it wasn't nearly as well designed as the time management helper in the 3rd party TCY Helper. Gameplanning in TCY was somewhat complex but manageable; my first impressions of gameplanning in FOF2K4 is to be overwhelmed.