The Soccer Thread

[SirFozzie]

Figured the EPL thread had drifted away enough that it was time for a new thread.

Yup, another Real Madrid coach. Talk about coaching roulette..

MADRID, Spain Dec 30, 2004 — Wanderley Luxemburgo was hired as coach of Real Madrid on Thursday, the third coach the soccer team has had this year.

"It is a very great personal satisfaction to coach the world's best team," Luxemburgo said at a news conference.

It has been far from the world's best team this year. Real Madrid is languishing in fifth place in the Spanish league despite a lineup that boasts players such as Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane and David Beckham and it struggled to qualify for the second round of the Champions League.

Luxemburgo replaces Mariano Garcia Remon, who had taken over from Jose Antonio Camacho just three weeks into the season. Garcia Remon will remain with the team in a management position.
Luxemburgo led Santos to its second Brazilian championship in three years earlier this month. He has won a record five Brazilian titles as a coach two with Palmeiras and one each with Corinthians, Cruzeiro and Santos.

He was the Brazilian national coach from 1998-00 and coached Ronaldo at Cruzeiro.

[Critch]

I watched the game where Luxemburgo's team Santos clinched the Brazilian championship a couple of weeks ago. During it they mentioned that a couple of Brazilian top division teams were on their 4th manager of the season and one (Gremio, I think) was on their fifth. So if he lasts a few months at Real Madrid, he'll be hitting average.

Things can only get better for Real Madrid, you'd think. Can't get much worse. I'd guess Luxemburgo's success will come down to patience. Will Real Madrid give him the time, and will Luxemburgo stick around (he's got a record of not lasting long despite success)?

Already looks like Barcelona have got the league sewn up this season.

[Ryan S]

There have been rumors that the AC Milan coach might join Real Madrid in the summer, so Luxemburgo could be another temporary manager.

[SirFozzie]

Sheesh. Sounds like the gaffer's office at Real Madrid needs a "Take a number and wait" sign

[MrBug708]

I wonder how long til they hire Pumas coach

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

There have been rumors that the AC Milan coach might join Real Madrid in the summer, so Luxemburgo could be another temporary manager.

You mean Arrigo Sacchi?

From what I heard/read, it's Sacchi as GM-type and Luxemburgo as coach.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

You mean Arrigo Sacchi?

From what I heard/read, it's Sacchi as GM-type and Luxemburgo as coach.

The rumor I heard was that Sacchi had been hired as GM to try and tempt Carlo Ancelotti to join them in the summer.

[SirFozzie]

And Luxemburgo's first game at Real Madrid will last seven whole minutes.

Real Madrid will finish a game versus Real Sociedad today, that was abandoned 3 minutes before the end of the game due to a bomb threat.

Players, fans and officials were forced to evacuate the Bernabeu three minutes from time with the scores at 1-1 after police received a warning that a bomb would explode at the stadium.

With the referee deciding to add four minutes of extra time the two teams will now play the remainder of the match in what promises to be a one of the briefest encounters in footballing history.

It is not the first time that a game at the Bernabeu has had to be abandoned and then completed at a later date and judging by past events neither side can take anything for granted.

The King's Cup final between Deportivo Coruna and Valencia was abandoned in the 79th minute with the scores at 1-1 after torrential rain flooded the Real Madrid stadium in 1995.

The game was restarted 72 hours later with Deportivo midfielder Alfredo scoring in the opening minute to ensure the Galicians of a first major trophy in the history of the club.

For Wednesday's game both clubs will be permitted to make changes to the teams that had to leave the pitch on December 12, but Real's Luis Figo will be unavailable because he was replaced by Michael Owen in the original match.

Sociedad winger Valery Karpin is expected to play after missing the original game through injury and Mikel Alonso is likely to be drafted in to replace Mikel Arteta in midfield.

Luxemburgo's appointment as Real Madrid coach was prompted by the team's miserable performance in their 1-0 home defeat by Sevilla in the final match of last year.

His side now trail leaders Barcelona by 13 points with two games to go before the halfway point in the season.

'I don't think any coach has made a debut like this before,' he told sports daily Marca on Tuesday. 'There is still time to win the game and there are lot of things that we can do, although I'm not going to let on what they are.'

Sociedad forward Nihat Kahveci, who scored the equaliser in the first game, also believes there is time for his side to grab all three points.

'Real are going to come out with all guns firing in the hope of scoring a goal but we are going to be doing the same,' he said on Monday. 'There are bound to be some chances and it is just a case of making the most of any opportunity that comes our way.'

[tanglewood]

Luxembergo's hiring means Robinho is almost certainly going to Real now. There were strong rumors before, but with the hiring of his old boss I think it's virtually a done deal. Just a matter of if he wants him now or to wait until the summer.

[tanglewood]

dola

What does everyone think of Beattie going to Everton? £6m seems a lot for someone who's only had 1 good season and 1 decent one. I think that Bent has played well enough to stay their first choice up front, so unless Moyes moves to a 4-4-2 (I don't think he will, 4-5-1 has been too successful to switch it now) I think he should sit on the bench. Of course Moyes will probably put him straight in.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

The rumor I heard was that Sacchi had been hired as GM to try and tempt Carlo Ancelotti to join them in the summer.

Wow, that's indeed a bold one. Haven't heard/read that one.

But after the start Luxemburgo made, screaming for discipline and all, it's doubtful he'll finish the season in Madrid anyway.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

dola

What does everyone think of Beattie going to Everton? £6m seems a lot for someone who's only had 1 good season and 1 decent one. I think that Bent has played well enough to stay their first choice up front, so unless Moyes moves to a 4-4-2 (I don't think he will, 4-5-1 has been too successful to switch it now) I think he should sit on the bench. Of course Moyes will probably put him straight in.

As long as they finish somewhere behind the Reds in the standings, I'm all for it

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by klayman

As long as they finish somewhere behind the Reds in the standings, I'm all for it

... with the Reds in the top 4 of course.


Back to Real Madrid ... does this mean Owen actually gets to start some matches now?

[condors]

well i may be in the minority but when healthy James Beattie is as good a target man as there is in the EPL. He has a good workrate can get long balls to teamates or can finish himself. He scores with his back to the keeper or on the break. I think his service at Southampton was less than what RVN or Henry gets. I would give 6 million for him in a heartbeat compare that to the 20 million paid for woodgate who i don't rate as highly as Beattie but than Owen only garnered 8.5 million so maybe strikers don't warrant the same transfer fees as a top defender. (although i believe England suffers when Sol and Rio are not on the backline). Personally if i was at Southampton i wouldn't let him leave for less than 12 million but if he wants to go that would change his price tag. Southampton sold Wayne Bridge which was very stupid imho. They could be this year's Everton if they kept bridge and added a winger of quality. I think they have a good keeper and their backline isn't that bad although its not great either. Beattie & Crouch could create problems for teams in the box but they need someone who can make a decent cross on a consistant basis(dunlap may be their best currently but i think he is best suited to play the central holding role, Svensson may be the most inconsistant guy i have ever watched looks great one game and then dissapears for the next 4 or 5)

[Crapshoot]

I think given Everton's style of play, this is a bad idea- BEattie is a finisher and target man, but he is not a guy who will run up there all day and chase balls like Bent, who doesnt score much but does all the dirty work up front. Personally, I thought a Savage type to provide cover for that midfield (Carsley in particular could be improved upon) and a winger (like Simon Davies, who they have been linked too) are the things Everton should have gone for, and perhaps a cheaper striker type to back up Bent and provide something of the bench late. But as someone who's fast becoming a Liverpool fan, Im all for them using the money on a guy who will require them changing their style...

[MikeVick7]

I'm relatively new to soccer...but when is the management at Real Madrid going to learn that you actually need to put together a "team" of players rather than a group of individual players to succeed? All I hear about is how great they are every year...but yet they play sub-par soccer.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by MikeVick7

I'm relatively new to soccer...but when is the management at Real Madrid going to learn that you actually need to put together a "team" of players rather than a group of individual players to succeed? All I hear about is how great they are every year...but yet they play sub-par soccer.

The thing- is they win usually. More so, their marketing income has shot through the roof, which was Perez's plan with the Beckham and galictico signings anyway.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by moriarty

... with the Reds in the top 4 of course.

That goes without saying

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by klayman

That goes without saying

Along those lines, Wanderley Luxemburgo's first order of business should be to unload Morientes to Liverpool at the lowest possible price.

[tanglewood]

I am a Spurs fan who has just watched the Man Utd match.

Oh.

My.

GOD!!!!

[Crapshoot]

bastards! No spoilers! Im watchin em when I get home!

[klayman]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I am a Spurs fan who has just watched the Man Utd match.

Oh.

My.

GOD!!!!

Holy shit. No spoilers, but can you imagine the hell that would have been unleashed if the teams were reversed?

[Mac Howard]

The one good thing that could come from this is that Alex may now convince the board that he must get a quality 'keeper.

[ISiddiqui]

And there is now discussion to have some sort of quick video review (like 30 seconds for really botched calls like that on in the Spurs-ManU game) for should-have-been-goals.

[Critch]

Luxemburgo off to a winning start. Real Madrid got a last minute penalty to beat Real Sociedad 2-1 when they played the last few minutes of the previously abandoned game.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

The one good thing that could come from this is that Alex may now convince the board that he must get a quality 'keeper.

But are any available, though? I know Toldo is suppose to be on the move as is Vander Sar. I'm sure Norwich is fielding tons of calls for inquiry on Green. At least the one good news is Chelsea won't be in this market.

Well, most likely won't.

Maybe.

[Chief Rum]

United, overspend for Schwarzer.

Then we'll go get some other unerrated keeper on Teeside and be doing fine.

Ugh, though, it has been an ugly holiday stretch.

CR

[Sharpieman]

I'm an Everton fan and I'm mildly happy that they signed James Beattie. I thought Yakubu would be a better fit but Beattie should do.

[Desnudo]

I would have signed Tevez or Robinho. Spice it up a bit. Everton needs a little creativity. If they really have CL ambitions, it's time they looked outside of England for some help.

[Sharpieman]

I doubt that they would be able to get Tevez or Robinho...the Toffee's profile isn't high enough. Beattie, Yakubu and possibly Robbie Keane would be the only realistic choices.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

I doubt that they would be able to get Tevez or Robinho...the Toffee's profile isn't high enough. Beattie, Yakubu and possibly Robbie Keane would be the only realistic choices.

You're probably right, but I would have liked to have seen them try and get someone with a little more spice. I think Beattie will have a positive impact, but I don't see how he makes them much better than they already are. You would hope that for that kind of money you'd get someone who's really a game changer. For example, Porto signed Diego last summer for around 5 million pounds. Granted they have a special relationship with Brazil, but you get my drift.

Of course I'm biased towards creative, attacking play and that doesn't necessarily mean that's what's best for Everton.

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

You're probably right, but I would have liked to have seen them try and get someone with a little more spice. I think Beattie will have a positive impact, but I don't see how he makes them much better than they already are. You would hope that for that kind of money you'd get someone who's really a game changer. For example, Porto signed Diego last summer for around 5 million pounds. Granted they have a special relationship with Brazil, but you get my drift.

Of course I'm biased towards creative, attacking play and that doesn't necessarily mean that's what's best for Everton.

Yea, Everton have been playing a 4-5-1 so it will be interesting to see if they change or maybe even disrupt that success with Beattie. Maybe they'll bench Bent and just put Beattie up there, but I don't think that would be the best option. Beattie plays better with someone up in the box with him. I don't think he's the type of player who can play alone. But we'll see, hopefully Beattie doesn't disrupt the magic Everton are experiencing.

[BreizhManu]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

For example, Porto signed Diego last summer for around 5 million pounds. Granted they have a special relationship with Brazil, but you get my drift.

Oh yeah and don't forget they are European Champions...

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by daedalus

But are any available, though? I know Toldo is suppose to be on the move as is Vander Sar. I'm sure Norwich is fielding tons of calls for inquiry on Green. At least the one good news is Chelsea won't be in this market.

Well, most likely won't.

Maybe.

Van der Sar at Manchester United, that would be awesome, for him. Maybe Arsenal should quickly get in the market, somehow I'd rather have the best goalkeeper in the world (yes, I'm not objective here) with the Gunners than with the Ruud Devils.

[Mac Howard]

Van der Sar is certainly a possibility though his 33 years means he may not be around for too many more years. He's certainly better than anything Utd have had since Schmeichel left. But I think you're right daedalus - there are not too many first rate 'keepers available at the moment.

[Critch]

I like the Beattie signing, I think he'll do well at Everton and fit into their style well. A good powerful forward who can win in the air or hold up the ball when playing as a single striker.

Bent's done pretty well this season, but Beattie is definitely an upgrade. With so many games it's important they've got cover and Beattie backed up by Bent looks a whole lot better than Bent backed up by Campbell and/or Ferguson to me. Campbell and Drunken Duncan may have been good 5 years ago (well, Ferguson was anyway), but an injury to Bent would have wrecked Everton's European hopes before the Beattie signing.

Now they just have to hope that the Martyn/Stubbs/Weir geriatric crew at the back can hold it together for a whole season.

Saw Carrolls blunder last night, I was surprised as he'd looked steady but unspectacular in the games I'd seen him in. Pretty much forces Sir Alex to make some move in the trasfer window, I guess.

Five games from the FA Cup 3rd Round on FSW next week, starting saturday morning. Happy days.

[SirFozzie]

Once again, I heart my TiVo, all five games are set up to be TiVod

[Critch]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Once again, I heart my TiVo, all five games are set up to be TiVod

Oh yes, TiVo is the greatest invention since penicillin or the wheel or something. Set it to record the early starting weekend games, get 15 minutes extra sleep and fast-forward through half-time. Beat that, penicillin.

Just realized that the last two of the 5 FA Cup games (Everton v Plymouth and Newcastle v Yeading) are the weekend ppv games on delay, so not as good as I originally thought. I'd assumed 2 of Man Utd v Exeter/Chelsea v Scunthorpe/Arsenal v Stoke would have been the ppv line-up.

Disappointed the Tottenham v Brighton and the Birmingham v Leeds games aren't being covered live.

[SirFozzie]

SPOILER WARNING..





HOLY SHIT.

Exeter City (conference) not only gets PAIIIIIID with the trip to Old Trafford, but actually forces the Replay at home?

Oldham over Man City???

Sheffield United over Aston Villa?

Damn. what a wacky round.

[Critch]

Great string of games this afternoon, Sheff Utd looked good for the win over a Villa team who's confidence seemed to desert them as soon as Utd equalized. The last 20 minutes of the Oldham v Man City game were what cup football is all about, grim determination seeing them through. I'm always happy to see any team Keegan is involved with getting humped, I wish City would fire him so I could get back to quite liking them.

I gave in and paid for the Plymouth v Everton game on ppv this afternoon, another good cup game.

[Sharpieman]

I'll be watching the Everton v Plymouth game on Tuesday...hopefully Everton come out with the win.
BTW, whats the main difference between the FA cup and the Carling Cup?

[Ragone]

I watched that oldham game this afternoon.. That game was nuts.. oldham played without the ball for nearly 39 minutes of the 2nd half.. and steve mcmanananaman got booed

[SirFozzie]

The FA Cup is the main cup. It's theoretically open to every amateur, semi-pro, and professional team in England (you'll hear a lot about the "romance of the cup" since quite possibly, a team could come out of nowhere and win it all.) Any team that meets FA standards as to mininum talent level (Ie, you can actually play 90 minutes without having half your team give it up for a lark at the pub) and stadium can enter the tournament

660 teams entered the FA Cup tournament this year (there are only about 150 or so teams in the four major leagues+ the Conference and the Conference North and South

Here's a copy of the Giant Killing section from the FA Cup entry on Wikipedia (an open-source online Encyclopedia)

The FA Cup has a long tradition of lower-division and non-league teams becoming "giant-killers" by defeating highly-ranked opponents. Yeovil Town F.C. reached the fifth round in 1948-49 while in the Southern League, and defeated League opposition many other times before winning promotion to the Football League in 2003. In 1956-57 Bournemouth beat Wolves and Spurs before a controversial quarter-final defeat by Manchester United. Non-league Hereford United F.C. famously beat Newcastle United in 1972. A fifth-round tie in 1977-78 pitched two giant-killers together: Third Division Wrexham, who had beaten Bristol City and Newcastle, and non-league Blyth Spartans A.F.C. who had beaten Stoke. Wrexham won the replay in front of a huge crowd at St James' Park in Newcastle, but were beaten by Arsenal in the next round. Wrexham did get some revenge a few years later when they beat Arsenal in a 1992 third round tie in north Wales. The achievement was especially notable as the previous year Arsenal had been league champions and Wrexham had finished bottom of the league. In 1988-89 Coventry, the winners two seasons previously, lost away 2-1 to Sutton United of the Conference.

The FA Cup is also unique that if the two teams tie, they play another game (at the other team's stadium). It used to be that the two teams would switch back and forth until there was a clear winner (one memorable cup game needed FIVE replays to settle it), but now if the score is tied at the end of the 2nd game, they go to extra time and penalty kicks.

The Carling Cup used to be known as the League Cup and is just that, a tournament for teams from the four major divisions of English football. (Premier League, Championship, Leagues 1 and 2). It still places the winner of the Cup into Europe, but it's definitely the poorer sister compared to the FA Cup. Many big teams will play a 2nd team in the League Cup.

[SirFozzie]

I should really send some of the matches I've gotten off BitTorrent to some of the folks here (although the site I use has been overwhelmed with leeches, and went private for a bit)

[Ragone]

That reminds me of the time i beat Man utd at old trafford in a cup match with Rushden and diamonds outta the conference league in a earlier cm game

[SirFozzie]

Following up on the Spurs-ManUre game.


LONDON, Jan 5 (Reuters) - In a move almost as bizarre as the incident
itself, bookmakers William Hill will pay out on Pedro Mendes's
controversial "goal" in Tuesday's 0-0 draw between Manchester United
and Tottenham Hotspur.

In the last minute of the Premier League match at Old Trafford, with
the score at 0-0, the midfielder's 45-metre shot was fumbled by United
goalkeeper Roy Carroll before bouncing at least a metre over the
goalline.

Neither referee Mark Clattenburg nor linesman Ray Lewis saw the
incident clearly and they failed to signal the goal.

Hill's said they would honour the bets of those punters who backed
Mendes at 20-1 to score the first goal and at any time in the match at
11-2.

William Hill spokesman Graham Sharpe said on Wednesday: "This is
probably the most bizarre incident ever to occur in the Premier League
and we feel that anyone who bet on Mendes to score first, or to score
at all, is entitled to feel hard done by because clearly both the
referee and linesman were unsighted by a one in a million fluke
situation."

Mendes, who joined Spurs from Porto at the start of the season, scored
his first goal for Spurs in the 5-2 win over Everton on Saturday.

(probably no one bet it, but still, a nice gesture )

[McSweeny]

Nottingham Forest took care of QPR 3-0 today. Andy Reid bagged a goal and had two assists. Probably only a matter of time before some Premiership team snaps him up as he's been playing great for Forest and for Ireland. It's too bad to, because Forest sure as hell need him to stay up in the Championship

[Critch]

During one of the games today the commentator mentioned that Andy Reid would likely be joining Spurs during this transfer window, so Forest could be losing him seriously soon.

[McSweeny]

i know

it's a shame, i've become a huge fan of Reid over the last few seasons. I do hope that he goes on to become the star that many think he will. He's already become a big part of the Ireland squad. Reid and Robbie Keane playing together for Spurs would make them hard not to root for.

[SirFozzie]

Weekend News Update:

Championship strugglers Nottingham Forest have appointed Gary Megson as their new manager. Megson, who succeeds Joe Kinnear, was relieved of his duties by West Brom in October hours after revealing he intended to leave the club at the end of his contract in summer 2005

Cash-strapped Exeter City have landed another £150,000 windfall following confirmation that their FA Cup replay with Manchester United will be screened live on BBC.

The tie has now been put back to Wednesday, January 19, with a 7.45pm kick-off, allowing the nation a chance to see whether the non-League minnows can dump Sir Alex Ferguson's side out of the competition.

The extra cash means Exeter will have generated over £750,000 through their two meetings with United, enough to wipe out their entire debt.

And that may not be the end of the story either as the ecstatic Grecians supporters await this afternoon's fourth round draw.

Alex Inglethorpe's side got themselves into the hat courtesy of Saturday's amazing 0-0 draw at Old Trafford, a result that prompted a public apology from Ferguson to the Red Devils fans.

Exeter were today finalising ticket arrangements for the St James Park return, knowing their 9,000-capacity ground cannot even accommodate the number of visiting fans who travelled to Manchester to cheer on their team at the weekend.

Despite this, club officials have vowed not to increase prices above normal Conference levels, meaning those lucky enough to get in will have the chance to watch a far stronger United side at the cost of just £11.

The match has been moved to the Wednesday from the originally scheduled replay date of Tuesday, January 18 as Sky will televise Burnley's rearranged tie with Liverpool that evening.

The Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) is likely to investigate the racist chanting during Sunday's derby between Atletico Madrid and Real Madrid after the referee mentioned it in his match report.

'I asked the match delegate to make an announcement on the public address system to ask the fans to stop making monkey noises when certain players had the ball,' said referee Alfonso Perez Burrull. 'As a result... the noises grew louder.'

Real Madrid's Brazilian fullback Roberto Carlos was particularly singled out by the crowd for the abuse at certain points during the game at the Calderon which Real won 3-0.

The Spanish Federation only investigates such incidents if the referee notes them in his match report.

Racist abuse at black players has been on the rise in Spain in recent months, but not always mentioned in referees' reports.

Roberto Carlos was also abused during Real's league match against Barcelona but the incidents were not included in the report so no action was taken against the Catalan club.

The last time an incident was investigated the RFEF fined two Albacete fans £4,000 each and banned them from stadiums for five months for racial taunts directed at Barcelona's Cameroonian striker Samuel Eto'o during a league match in December.

European soccer's governing body UEFA fined Real Madrid £6,500 after racist abuse by some of the club's fans during a Champions League match against Bayer Leverkusen in November.

Inter Milan scored three late goals against Sampdoria to come back for an incredible 3-2 win in Serie A on Sunday and extend their unbeaten run to 18 games.

Celtic won the Old Firm derby in the Tennet's Scottish Cup, defeating Rangers 2-1.