I'm done with baseball...

[Franklinnoble]

Unless Bud Selig grows a set and really cracks down on this steroid issue, I'm done as a baseball fan.

The evidence is irrefutable now. Barry Bonds and a host of other big-name players have been on the juice for years now. All the recent hitting records are completely tainted. No, tainted isn't a strong enough word - they're complete bullshit.

It's not OK to cheat. I don't care how you want to justify it. I don't care if it wasn't banned at the time. I don't care if Barry claims "he didn't know" (bullshit). I don't care if the player's union is too powerful. I don't care if this causes a work stoppage.

Barry and his ilk need to be suspended indefinately. Mandatory drug tests need to be enforced - and I mean more than once or twice a year. I mean twice a month. Major League Baseball needs to take this seriously, or I'm finished. I won't watch. My kids won't watch.

To hell with it.

[Easy Mac]

so i guess the taint is large in baseball locker rooms then?

[Swaggs]

The problem is that the MLB is player association's bitch. The PA has its way with the league. The fact that a business cannot give drug tests to its employees for illegal drugs is really disgusting. No one broke any rules, because the PA will not let MLB have any type of reasonable anti-drug rules.

[jbmagic]

i hear there going to put an asterik my Bonds and giambi number on his jersey for punishment this season

[rkmsuf]

I think it's hilarious how all the players are applauding Giambi for being a stand up guy.

Haaaaahahhahaahahhahahahhahaahahahahahahahahahaha

He lied for 2 years and only owned up when faced with pound me in the ass prison.

More like he wants to continue to be a standing up guy.

[Warhammer]

I gave up on baseball a few years back because of this stuff. I remember back in the 80s when you had guys hitting 30 HRs, and that was a power hitter! Now, if a guy hits 30 dingers he's a contact guy.

There is comparatively little strategy in baseball any more. It has become a game of trying to get one or two people on base, then wait for the big hit. Not only that, but the umps have allowed pitchers to be intimidated by hitters, and have effectively taken the inside of the plate away. I have seen games were a breaking ball didn't break or some such, and the pitcher gets tossed! It's one thing if its a number one to the head, but some of the times pitchers get tossed is ridiculous. I could go on and on, but, I give up.

[SplitPersonality1]

What is truly odd to me, is that the people who are truly most affected by the use of steroids are those players that played by the rules and didn't get involved with the stuff. You would think that they would grow a set and start condeming this crap, but no one wants to go against the player's union.

IMO, this could have/should have been taken care of by the player's a long tme ago.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

The one thing baseball ought to do is keep Barry Bonds out of the HOF. That would send a clear message that steroid abuse will not be tolerated.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by SplitPersonality1

What is truly odd to me, is that the people who are truly most affected by the use of steroids are those players that played by the rules and didn't get involved with the stuff. You would think that they would grow a set and start condeming this crap, but no one wants to go against the player's union.

IMO, this could have/should have been taken care of by the player's a long tme ago.

Ever listen to Glavine or some to the player reps? It's completely hopeless on this front.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

The one thing baseball ought to do is keep Barry Bonds out of the HOF. That would send a clear message that steroid abuse will not be tolerated.

I agree that he should be severely punished, and so should other cheaters. However, Bonds had 3 MVP seasons before the steroids, didn't he? He was a good hitter and had speed... I think he should make it on on that alone.

[GrantDawg]

The player's union gives all other unions a bad name.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I agree that he should be severely punished, and so should other cheaters. However, Bonds had 3 MVP seasons before the steroids, didn't he? He was a good hitter and had speed... I think he should make it on on that alone.

There's a lot of good hitters with speed not in the HOF. He has tarnished the game (along with the others) and should be banned from baseball and have his records stricken.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Ever listen to Glavine or some to the player reps? It's completely hopeless on this front.

We need Buck Henderson, Union Buster.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Chubby

There's a lot of good hitters with speed not in the HOF. He has tarnished the game (along with the others) and should be banned from baseball and have his records stricken.

I *gulp* agree with Chubby.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by LastWhiteSoxFanStanding

The one thing baseball ought to do is keep Barry Bonds out of the HOF. That would send a clear message that steroid abuse will not be tolerated.

Amen!!

[rexallllsc]

Yep. Ultimately this falls on MLB...I don't even think Bonds CAN be suspended (let alone be stripped of anything) because MLB's rules are so weak.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Yep. Ultimately this falls on MLB...I don't even think Bonds CAN be suspended (let alone be stripped of anything) because MLB's rules are so weak.

in the best interests of baseball...

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Chubby

in the best interests of baseball...

fingers crossed...

[digamma]

Did people honestly believe that sluggers weren't juicing? Track stars? Romo and the other football meat heads?

We love our juiced up, roid rage athletes. We like them bigger, stronger and faster. We pay money to see them. Lots of money. We feed their habits. We make their salaries bigger. We demand performance.

We're kidding ourselves if we are all of a sudden outraged by this steroid use. We're also kidding ourselves if we're just going to lay the blame on the players' union. Surely, they are partly to blame, but Buddy Boy Selig and the owners have certainly capitalized on the increased offensive production in their efforts to bring the game back from the depths of 1994. And they've done it while turning a blind eye to steroid use--as have the fans. We've gladly handed over our cash to see Bonds hit one into McCovey Cove, to see Brady Anders jack 50 bombs from the lead-off spot, to see Sosa and McGwire chest bump and hand pound while racing past Maris. We've paid to see this and we'll keep paying to see it. Who are we kidding?

[HornedFrog Purple]

I think it would be cool to see the legit Hall of Famers organize a protest.

Better yet, since the Players Union says it's just a small number using them, the rest of the legit players go on strike until the PU comes down with a 1 strike, you are out banning policy.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by digamma

Did people honestly believe that sluggers weren't juicing? Track stars? Romo and the other football meat heads?

We love our juiced up, roid rage athletes. We like them bigger, stronger and faster. We pay money to see them. Lots of money. We feed their habits. We make their salaries bigger. We demand performance.

We're kidding ourselves if we are all of a sudden outraged by this steroid use. We're also kidding ourselves if we're just going to lay the blame on the players' union. Surely, they are partly to blame, but Buddy Boy Selig and the owners have certainly capitalized on the increased offensive production in their efforts to bring the game back from the depths of 1994. And they've done it while turning a blind eye to steroid use--as have the fans. We've gladly handed over our cash to see Bonds hit one into McCovey Cove, to see Brady Anders jack 50 bombs from the lead-off spot, to see Sosa and McGwire chest bump and hand pound while racing past Maris. We've paid to see this and we'll keep paying to see it. Who are we kidding?

I've seen a couple of people do this and it is such a crock. I like sports so it is my fault they use steriods? BS. I would love sports, watch sports, and go to sport events even if the players didn't use steriods. How the heck is steriods use the fans fault?

And the comment about the union...the player's union helps protect wrong doers from being punished to the determent of the sport. This is just one of many reasons why I said the baseball player's union is an embarassment to unions.

I like you, di, but that is one of the worst reason posts I've ever seen.

[Ksyrup]

I love baseball; have and always will. This will not keep me from practicing my love with MLB baseball players all over this country.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Chubby

There's a lot of good hitters with speed not in the HOF. He has tarnished the game (along with the others) and should be banned from baseball and have his records stricken.

when he was normal (before the turn of the century) he never hit more than 49 homers. give him props for being an all around good player, but once he took steroid and broke the home run record teams got scared of giving up the long ball and started walking him a ton to save face. so you can't even say steroids had nothign to do with his OBP because teams were picking the lesser of two evils and walking him because of the added power he derived from steroids.

i think enough of the media hated him to the point where had he not taken steroids to pad his numbers he wouldn't be anywhere near a lock to get in.

if good media darlings like Gary Carter - one of the better catcher in the 80's who bridged the gap between Johny Bench and Mike Piazza - had to be patient and wait like 3 years to get in then i wouldn't have been surprised a despised player would have had to wait his turn at best, or at worst possibly not get in at all.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by digamma

Did people honestly believe that sluggers weren't juicing? Track stars? Romo and the other football meat heads?

We love our juiced up, roid rage athletes. We like them bigger, stronger and faster. We pay money to see them. Lots of money. We feed their habits. We make their salaries bigger. We demand performance.

We're kidding ourselves if we are all of a sudden outraged by this steroid use. We're also kidding ourselves if we're just going to lay the blame on the players' union. Surely, they are partly to blame, but Buddy Boy Selig and the owners have certainly capitalized on the increased offensive production in their efforts to bring the game back from the depths of 1994. And they've done it while turning a blind eye to steroid use--as have the fans. We've gladly handed over our cash to see Bonds hit one into McCovey Cove, to see Brady Anders jack 50 bombs from the lead-off spot, to see Sosa and McGwire chest bump and hand pound while racing past Maris. We've paid to see this and we'll keep paying to see it. Who are we kidding?

i don't know about you but i pay to see natural talent and people use God-given gifts of which normal people don't have. sure there were always tell-tale signs, but unless someone gives us good reason it's not fair to any athlete who dominates to assume that they are juicing. i think sports fans truly do have a innocent-till-proven-guilty approach to athletes. they get the benefit of the doubt. but God forbid they lose our trust....

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

I think it would be cool to see the legit Hall of Famers organize a protest.

Better yet, since the Players Union says it's just a small number using them, the rest of the legit players go on strike until the PU comes down with a 1 strike, you are out banning policy.

ditto.

something drastic has to happen to quiet the critics.

all in all 2004 has not been a good year for pro sports. i really believe we should rethink how much we pay athletes. sure they generate a lot of money for their owners and such but when you consider how damaging fiascos such as this one and the Friday Nite At The Fights Detroit Brawl costs in public relations and revenue it about equals out. i just don't think by and large these people are deserving of all this money. too much corruption.

if the stakes weren't so high (high salaries to be had as a result of sexy numbers) there'd be less incentive to tarnish the integrity of sports.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I've seen a couple of people do this and it is such a crock. I like sports so it is my fault they use steriods? BS. I would love sports, watch sports, and go to sport events even if the players didn't use steriods. How the heck is steriods use the fans fault?

And the comment about the union...the player's union helps protect wrong doers from being punished to the determent of the sport. This is just one of many reasons why I said the baseball player's union is an embarassment to unions.

I like you, di, but that is one of the worst reason posts I've ever seen.

I like you too!

Let me defend my reasoning--as I think you misunderstood me a bit (or perhaps I wasn't clear). My point is that I think it's disingenous for us to be upset now. We've known for years that people have been juicing (or if we haven't known it, we've suspected it). Yet, despite that, we've still been fans. It shouldn't take a grand jury admission for us to be upset or take action, which is kind of the reaction I've seen today (not just here, but on espn, sports radio, etc.). Why are we upset now? This is nothing new.

As to why I think fans are partially to blame, I think you can disagree with. Like you, I'd be a fan of sports if no drugs were involved. I watch high school football, like you, as well as other "minor" sports. We are fans of sports in their purest form.

However, I think we're unique. I think there are a significant number of fans who would be less interested if the performance of players was not up to the standards we have seen in recent years. I'd point to the relative unpopularity of lower division college football or college baseball. We want to see the best players at the top of their ability. We've also helped create a market where the top performers are better compensated for better performance. Players then look to get an edge so they can increase their performance and command higher salaries. Some do it by hard work. Some cheat. I think mainstream America has turned a blind eye to the cheaters. And because of that, I do think we've contributed to the problem.

As for the union, I have no real defense for the player's union. I don't like them. However, I don't think you can simply blame this on the union. They are part of the problem as well. A large part of it. But, the owners haven't exactly made this a major issue in negotiations. It's never been a real deal point. Second, steroids aren't limited to baseball. Athletes in all sports look to get an edge (and even in sports where drug use is supposedly highly regulated). Marion Jones has never tested positive for steroids, yet we see damaging testimony about her. I guarantee you she isn't the only sprinter or track star who has shot up in their day. And, this despite potentially facing a lifetime ban frim the ITFA (or whatever the acronym is). Romo continued to take whatever he could get despite the NFL's drug policy (and Lyle Alzado's death). I'd venture to guess (no, I know) that he isn't the only football player who is artificially enhanced. Swimmers are the same way. Cycling has been the same way, even given the raids on camps at the Tour de France. The baseball union hasn't helped--no way, but the problem isn't limited to baseball, and it's not limited to sports where there hasn't been testing.

Hopefully, that is less of a rant and more of an explanation of why I feel the way I do.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by digamma

I like you too!

Let me defend my reasoning--as I think you misunderstood me a bit (or perhaps I wasn't clear). My point is that I think it's disingenous for us to be upset now. We've known for years that people have been juicing (or if we haven't known it, we've suspected it). Yet, despite that, we've still been fans. It shouldn't take a grand jury admission for us to be upset or take action, which is kind of the reaction I've seen today (not just here, but on espn, sports radio, etc.). Why are we upset now? This is nothing new.

Many people have been complaining about roid use in baseball - in particular Bonds. But most of our complaints have been shot down with people saying "Bonds is clean" or at least "Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, etc. may be juiced, but there's no proof!"

Well now, there's some proof. Now's the time to act and clean up the game.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

ditto.

something drastic has to happen to quiet the critics.

all in all 2004 has not been a good year for pro sports. i really believe we should rethink how much we pay athletes. sure they generate a lot of money for their owners and such but when you consider how damaging fiascos such as this one and the Friday Nite At The Fights Detroit Brawl costs in public relations and revenue it about equals out. i just don't think by and large these people are deserving of all this money. too much corruption.

if the stakes weren't so high (high salaries to be had as a result of sexy numbers) there'd be less incentive to tarnish the integrity of sports.

I agree for the most part.

At least David Stern had the guts to deal out some good penalties for that mess in Detroit. I am not his biggest fan, but I commend his quick turnaround time and sticking to his guns.

The guys that get screwed in all of this besides the fans are the legit players, who are going to get asked ad nauseum now about their teammates and who they think do roids and what they think MLB should do about it.

They just need to stand up as a majority of the union and say enough is enough.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Many people have been complaining about roid use in baseball - in particular Bonds. But most of our complaints have been shot down with people saying "Bonds is clean" or at least "Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, etc. may be juiced, but there's no proof!"

Well now, there's some proof. Now's the time to act and clean up the game.

On a personal level, I agree with you. I just don't think most casual fans do. Maybe I'm underestimating Joe Fan--and given the reaction of you, HA and GrantDawg, that seems to be possible.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Oh and get a legit commissioner too. Bud Selig is an absolute disgrace.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I *gulp* agree with Chubby.

Gulp. Me too.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Many people have been complaining about roid use in baseball - in particular Bonds. But most of our complaints have been shot down with people saying "Bonds is clean" or at least "Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, etc. may be juiced, but there's no proof!"

Well now, there's some proof. Now's the time to act and clean up the game.

The proof is not legally obtained therefore cannot be used against these players.

Bonds/Giambi should not be punished, as per the agreement with the Grand Jury (federal).

MLB-Commish must put into place a no drug/roid policy like the NFL.

Starting in 2005 any proof of use should cause a player to be suspended.

It is ludicrous to put an asterik by anyones name in the record books and Bonds should not be kept out of the HOF. Do you truly believe that only Bonds/Giambi/Sheffield/Sosa/McGwire/B.Anderson are guilty of roids usage? How come all the other users have not been unstoppable like Bonds? Give the man some credit he is the best player in MLB over the past 25 years, at least.

Did the roids help Bonds to hit more homers? Possibly, though no definitive proof exists. Then again, he would not have walked as much as he did due to the 2001 season (73 homers). So his OBP may have been lower but who is to say that he still would not have hit 50+ homers a season over these past few years. That still would have put him with a very good chance to top Aaron's 755 mark.

Is Bonds guilty of illegal roid usage. Doesn't matter because he received immunity from the Grand Jury for his testimony.

The bigger question is how will this news impact baseball and the homerun record chase? IMO it will put a dark cloud over Bonds (yes darker than before) and will take the luster off the record. That is too sad but it just shows how these athletes that have been put on pedastals with the media attention and crazy salaries have fallen, because no matter what we think of them, no matter what they think of themselves, they are still human, with human frailties.

Combine this with what happened in basketball two weeks ago and you can see that some changes need to be made. If these changes do not come from within (societal) then they most certainly will come from ABOVE!

This has been a dark day for me as I am a Giant's and Bonds fan. I am still a fan of Bonds, as long as he plays for the SF Giants (or if he got traded to the Mariners). However I am saddened that he did do roids and then deny he knew they were roids. To me that is his most significant offense in this entire drama.

I used to be a sports fan of the players and teams that I rooted for. Actually I admired many players back in the day (1960-70's). Now I only root for my teams, players are assets to be used to get the w's and rings. I do not nearly enjoy sports as I did as a youngster and it has nothing to do with my maturity..... :o

[ISiddiqui]

I love baseball; have and always will. This will not keep me from practicing my love with MLB baseball players all over this country.

Amen!

Btw, I don't believe in any retrospective punishments for Bonds, Sheffield, Giambi, etc. Start testing frequently next year and suspend for violations, but suspending for past steroid use, which wasn't even banned by baseball back then, is right out for me.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Many people have been complaining about roid use in baseball - in particular Bonds. But most of our complaints have been shot down with people saying "Bonds is clean" or at least "Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, etc. may be juiced, but there's no proof!"

Well now, there's some proof. Now's the time to act and clean up the game.

There's still no proof. Well he did admit to it so I guess that counts for something.

I've been a Bonds fan and a supporter. I've often said yes, it looks bad for him, but we'll never know unless he tests possitive. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I'd like him to come clean,and tell all. I know that isn't going to happen, but nothing else will satisfy me.

Well I can' t say that nothing else will satisfy me. MLB could lock the players out until they agree to a complete testing regimen, complete with punishments. Everything in the past is in question, let the fans know that the future is on the up and up.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by G-Man

The proof is not legally obtained therefore cannot be used against these players.

Bonds/Giambi should not be punished, as per the agreement with the Grand Jury (federal).

MLB-Commish must put into place a no drug/roid policy like the NFL.

Starting in 2005 any proof of use should cause a player to be suspended.

It is ludicrous to put an asterik by anyones name in the record books and Bonds should not be kept out of the HOF. Do you truly believe that only Bonds/Giambi/Sheffield/Sosa/McGwire/B.Anderson are guilty of roids usage? How come all the other users have not been unstoppable like Bonds? Give the man some credit he is the best player in MLB over the past 25 years, at least.

Did the roids help Bonds to hit more homers? Possibly, though no definitive proof exists. Then again, he would not have walked as much as he did due to the 2001 season (73 homers). So his OBP may have been lower but who is to say that he still would not have hit 50+ homers a season over these past few years. That still would have put him with a very good chance to top Aaron's 755 mark.

Is Bonds guilty of illegal roid usage. Doesn't matter because he received immunity from the Grand Jury for his testimony.

The bigger question is how will this news impact baseball and the homerun record chase? IMO it will put a dark cloud over Bonds (yes darker than before) and will take the luster off the record. That is too sad but it just shows how these athletes that have been put on pedastals with the media attention and crazy salaries have fallen, because no matter what we think of them, no matter what they think of themselves, they are still human, with human frailties.

Combine this with what happened in basketball two weeks ago and you can see that some changes need to be made. If these changes do not come from within (societal) then they most certainly will come from ABOVE!

This has been a dark day for me as I am a Giant's and Bonds fan. I am still a fan of Bonds, as long as he plays for the SF Giants (or if he got traded to the Mariners). However I am saddened that he did do roids and then deny he knew they were roids. To me that is his most significant offense in this entire drama.

I used to be a sports fan of the players and teams that I rooted for. Actually I admired many players back in the day (1960-70's). Now I only root for my teams, players are assets to be used to get the w's and rings. I do not nearly enjoy sports as I did as a youngster and it has nothing to do with my maturity..... :o

they were given immunity in a court of law, not by their employer.

If Joe Schmoe can get canned by his company for taking drugs then so can Bonds, Giambi, and any other athlete.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Chubby

they were given immunity in a court of law, not by their employer.

If Joe Schmoe can get canned by his company for taking drugs then so can Bonds, Giambi, and any other athlete.

Well there is this player's union that would maintain otherwise.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Well there is this player's union that would maintain otherwise.

again, best interests of baseball

Not that I think Bud actually has the sack to do that but...

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Chubby

again, best interests of baseball

MLBPA response: strike .

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by Chubby

they were given immunity in a court of law, not by their employer.

If Joe Schmoe can get canned by his company for taking drugs then so can Bonds, Giambi, and any other athlete.

Do you honestly believe that Selig has the integrity to do this and that the players union would even allow it? The law suits that would follow would only hurt baseball more.

MLB is responsible for this gaff. MLB will lose the most because of this and that is as it should be. Hopefully chnages in policy will be made to prevent this from happening in the future!

[Solecismic]

I'm not done with baseball by a long shot. But I'm done with Barry Bonds, Gary Sheffield, Mark McGwire, Jason Giambi, Ken Caminiti and all of their friends.

AFAIC, all the home run and offensive records since 1986 are worth the paper they're printed on. Roger Maris, Babe Ruth and Henry Aaron are still the names that count.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

MLBPA response: strike .

so be it, don't let the door hit ya on the ass on the way out.

I could care less if bunch of juicers want to strike.



G-Man - Get serious, the union is responsible for this are they have repeatedly denied any attempt at serious drug testing (that was pushed by Selig a couple of years ago).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Chubby

so be it, don't let the door hit ya on the ass on the way out.

I could care less if bunch of juicers want to strike.

Yeah, YOU may not, but you don't have your money on the line. And personally, I'd be pissed off as Hell if there was another strike. I want my baseball, dammit!

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yeah, YOU may not, but you don't have your money on the line.

and you do?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Chubby

and you do?

Weren't we talking about the owners (and Selig in particular) cracking down on steroids without MLBPA consent? I would think Selig and the owners have plenty of money on the line.

[Bomber]

Are you shocked by this news or something? Is there any baseball fan that didn't know about this for 2 or so years now? To tell you the truth I just don't care if they juice or not. Its too widespread, this is much much bigger than BALCO, to stop now, and baseball isn't the only offender. Everyone from Lance Armstrong to Marion Jones is doping and getting away with it. I guess I don't see much difference between supplements, steroids, and surgery on your elbow that ends up making you a better pitcher. Aren't all enhancing your performance unnaturally?

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Bomber

Are you shocked by this news or something? Is there any baseball fan that didn't know about this for 2 or so years now? ...

No, I'm not shocked by it. I've known about it. But for the last several years, plenty of Bonds apologists have denied it despite how damned obvious it was. And Bud Selig has had enough plausible deniability to keep his head up his ass about it.

That's over now. Barry is juiced. Period. No wiggle room left. Now MLB has to do something about it, or I'm done with baseball. Period. I'm sick of it. I want nothing to do with it.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I seriously think his recored should be banned / stricken from the books but will it happen...chances are NO. Its a sad day here at my household because of this travesty in sports but life goes on.

[jbmagic]

i say put an asterick by there jersey number when they play..

[Vince]

Such a sad day. Not that I ever really believed otherwise, but I really wanted to. And I defended him to the end -- but at this point there isn't much to do. It's just so sad because Barry Bonds was probably the best baseball player of the generation with or without steroids...but now the case is moot, because even suggesting it (that he would have been the best without steroids) is nearly impossible to do.

Now what to do? He's on my team. My favorite team, in all of sports, everywhere. And without him, my team is not very good. Man does this suck.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I'm not done with baseball by a long shot. But I'm done with Barry Bonds, Gary Sheffield, Mark McGwire, Jason Giambi, Ken Caminiti and all of their friends.

Good, I still have faith then!