Dumb football question

sachmo71 · 09-14-2004, 03:23 PM

On our afternoon walk to 7-11, a friend posed a question to me. I have no idea how this would be handled in an NFL game, so I thought I'd throw it out to the masses.

Guy is returning a punt and there is NO ONE between him and the end zone. Player flys off the bench, and knocks the crap out of him, stopping a sure touchdown.

What is the fallout? Is there a penalty? Does the returning team get a score? Is the player killed?

Thanks!

Huckleberry · 09-14-2004, 03:24 PM

I'm assuming you know that this happened in a college game once.

I would assume that there is an NFL rule that gives the referee discretion to award the return team a touchdown in that situation, but I'm not the guy to give you the definite answer.

Chubby · 09-14-2004, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I'm assuming you know that this happened in a college game once.

I would assume that there is an NFL rule that gives the referee discretion to award the return team a touchdown in that situation, but I'm not the guy to give you the definite answer.

I don't think so. As far as I know, the guy would be downed once a player that is actually eligible tackles him (which won't be long after the mugging). There'd prob be a unsportsmanlike penalty and the guy who came off the bench would be ejected and later fined/suspended heavily by the league. I don't think they can just award points however.

Hurst2112 · 09-14-2004, 03:36 PM

I don't know for sure. I would think it would go something like:

Personal foul on what ever number of the opposing team did it. Probably 15 yards from the spot of the foul.

Player who committed foul is ejected from the game.

First down for team that returned the kick off.

I could also maybe see another penalty for 12 guys on the field. This might be tacked onto the personal foul yardage.

Lastly...there might be another personal foul for a guy coming from the sidelines. I don't know how they handle fights in the NFL but I have seen brawls that involve more than 1 person from the sidelines. (wasn't there a sunday or monday night game a few years back with the panthers that had a big fight in one of the end zones?)

Either way, I don't think the person that got the penalty would be doing any united way commercials for awhile.

WSUCougar · 09-14-2004, 03:39 PM

From the NFL rules penalty section:

Quote:

Touchdown awarded (palpably unfair act)
When Referee determines a palpably unfair act deprived a team of a touchdown. (Example: Player comes off bench and tackles runner apparently en route to touchdown.)

Chubby · 09-14-2004, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

I don't know for sure. I would think it would go something like:

Personal foul on what ever number of the opposing team did it. Probably 15 yards from the spot of the foul.

Player who committed foul is ejected from the game.

First down for team that returned the kick off.

I could also maybe see another penalty for 12 guys on the field. This might be tacked onto the personal foul yardage.

Lastly...there might be another personal foul for a guy coming from the sidelines. I don't know how they handle fights in the NFL but I have seen brawls that involve more than 1 person from the sidelines. (wasn't there a sunday or monday night game a few years back with the panthers that had a big fight in one of the end zones?)

Either way, I don't think the person that got the penalty would be doing any united way commercials for awhile.

penalties don't accumulateon on one play unless unsportsmanlike penalties are different...

sachmo71 · 09-14-2004, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I'm assuming you know that this happened in a college game once.

I would assume that there is an NFL rule that gives the referee discretion to award the return team a touchdown in that situation, but I'm not the guy to give you the definite answer.

That's what I was thinking, and I was told about the college situation, but no one has any idea how that was resolved, or if there is currently a rule.

Chubby · 09-14-2004, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

From the NFL rules penalty section:

ahhh "appearently" Leon Lett was on his way to an easy TD as well so who is to say how much of a headstart someone would have to have to get that called.

sachmo71 · 09-14-2004, 03:43 PM

Thanks, Coug!

JAG · 09-14-2004, 03:47 PM

That's a pretty amazing rule, but I'm glad they have it.

Huckleberry · 09-14-2004, 03:49 PM

Chubby -

Well, if a Bill had come off the bench to tackle Lett, it would have been correct to give Dallas the touchdown. There has to be a penalty for that kind of act and the fact that Beebe caught him would merely mean that the offending Bill should have been even more berated than usual.

Chubby · 09-14-2004, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Chubby -

Well, if a Bill had come off the bench to tackle Lett, it would have been correct to give Dallas the touchdown. There has to be a penalty for that kind of act and the fact that Beebe caught him would merely mean that the offending Bill should have been even more berated than usual.

That has nothing to do with my point, the point was "appearantly en route to a touchdown" doesn't always mean he WAS going to score a touchdown. If someone had come off the bench to tackle Lett would they have used that rule? Would he have been deemed "catchable" or "someone would have had to make a super play" (which happened), the rule isn't super clear cut and any use of it would be made into a HUGE issue as the penalized team would of course say that someone could have caught him. Now if the guy is on the 10 with no defender within 30 yds it's a different story

Hurst2112 · 09-14-2004, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

penalties don't accumulateon on one play unless unsportsmanlike penalties are different...

Ok...so that would eliminate the 12 men on the field. There could still possibly be additional penalties for player leaving sideline (bench)

Chubby · 09-14-2004, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Ok...so that would eliminate the 12 men on the field. There could still possibly be additional penalties for player leaving sideline (bench)

but that doesn't mean they add up to 50yds of penalty on the same play (someone moving from their 20 to the opp 30)

Castlerock · 09-14-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

That has nothing to do with my point, the point was "appearantly en route to a touchdown" doesn't always mean he WAS going to score a touchdown. If someone had come off the bench to tackle Lett would they have used that rule? Would he have been deemed "catchable" or "someone would have had to make a super play" (which happened), the rule isn't super clear cut and any use of it would be made into a HUGE issue as the penalized team would of course say that someone could have caught him. Now if the guy is on the 10 with no defender within 30 yds it's a different story

Referees are called on all the time to make judgement calls. I have no problem with this.

If someone comes off the bench to make a tackle, I would have no problem changing the rule to award an AUTOMATIC touchdown. Even if he had 11 guys between him and the endzone.

Chubby · 09-14-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castlerock

Referees are called on all the time to make judgement calls. I have no problem with this.

If someone comes off the bench to make a tackle, I would have no problem awarding an AUTOMATIC touchdown. Even if he had 11 guys between him and the endzone.

and you would be in the minority

Castlerock · 09-14-2004, 04:06 PM

On which point to you think I am in the minority?

judicial clerk · 09-14-2004, 04:12 PM

I've got two dumb questions:

When can a referee declare a forfeit?

What would be the call on the runningback in The Last Boyscout who started shooting defensive players while running the ball?

Chubby · 09-14-2004, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castlerock

On which point to you think I am in the minority?

Uhh, awarding a touchdown to a player with 11 guys between him and the endzone. you might be the only one in that minority too...

SirFozzie · 09-14-2004, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

I've got two dumb questions:

When can a referee declare a forfeit?

What would be the call on the runningback in The Last Boyscout who started shooting defensive players while running the ball?

I think they would award a forfeit for reasons of player safety and egrecgious conduct

Hurst2112 · 09-14-2004, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

but that doesn't mean they add up to 50yds of penalty on the same play (someone moving from their 20 to the opp 30)

No, but could the 1 guy get a penalty for unsportsmanlike and still have an additional team personal foul? I have seen 30 yards of penaties given out in 1 play before.

Hurst2112 · 09-14-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I think they would award a forfeit for reasons of player safety and egrecgious conduct

What about the ice-chucking at the Medowlands that 1 year (giants and san diego). Wasn't the ref threatening to forfeit. Actually, he said that the home team (giants) would have to forfeit. I think that only the home team can be made to forfeit.

ice4277 · 09-14-2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

That has nothing to do with my point, the point was "appearantly en route to a touchdown" doesn't always mean he WAS going to score a touchdown. If someone had come off the bench to tackle Lett would they have used that rule? Would he have been deemed "catchable" or "someone would have had to make a super play" (which happened), the rule isn't super clear cut and any use of it would be made into a HUGE issue as the penalized team would of course say that someone could have caught him. Now if the guy is on the 10 with no defender within 30 yds it's a different story

If a player is so dumb as to come off the bench and try to do this, the only fair result is to award a touchdown. True, the guy with the ball MAY or MAY NOT have scored a touchdown, but dumbfuck coming in off the bench kinda made that argument moot didn't he?

Chubby · 09-14-2004, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ice4277

If a player is so dumb as to come off the bench and try to do this, the only fair result is to award a touchdown. True, the guy with the ball MAY or MAY NOT have scored a touchdown, but dumbfuck coming in off the bench kinda made that argument moot didn't he?

except that isn't what the NFL rulebook says.

ice4277 · 09-14-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

except that isn't what the NFL rulebook says.

True, but it leaves it to the ref's discretion. I think in most cases, if this were to happen, the ref would (hopefully) give a lot of leeway to the team that was running with the ball. If the guy has a 50/50 shot of scoring or more, that team should get the TD.

Buccaneer · 09-14-2004, 07:02 PM

It's amazing to see fans trying to come up with their own solution when, as Coug pointed out, it's in the rule book.

Hurst2112 · 09-14-2004, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It's amazing to see fans trying to come up with their own solution when, as Coug pointed out, it's in the rule book.

Just trying to excercise the thought process. Nuthin' wrong with that.

ice4277 · 09-14-2004, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Just trying to excercise the thought process. Nuthin' wrong with that.

Yup. Not any different than playing out a 'what if' scenario in a historical context.

cthomer5000 · 09-14-2004, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It's amazing to see fans trying to come up with their own solution when, as Coug pointed out, it's in the rule book.

Not surprising given the person in question.

sachmo71 · 09-14-2004, 09:01 PM

I LOVE what ifs!!!!

What if ice tasted like French Vanilla Ice Cream?
What if toots smelled like roses?
What if the Allies had invaded Europe in August of 44 instead of June?

09-14-2004, 03:24 PM	#2
Huckleberry College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001	I'm assuming you know that this happened in a college game once. I would assume that there is an NFL rule that gives the referee discretion to award the return team a touchdown in that situation, but I'm not the guy to give you the definite answer. __________________ The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog) College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings

09-14-2004, 03:36 PM	#4
Hurst2112 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Minneapolis	I don't know for sure. I would think it would go something like: Personal foul on what ever number of the opposing team did it. Probably 15 yards from the spot of the foul. Player who committed foul is ejected from the game. First down for team that returned the kick off. I could also maybe see another penalty for 12 guys on the field. This might be tacked onto the personal foul yardage. Lastly...there might be another personal foul for a guy coming from the sidelines. I don't know how they handle fights in the NFL but I have seen brawls that involve more than 1 person from the sidelines. (wasn't there a sunday or monday night game a few years back with the panthers that had a big fight in one of the end zones?) Either way, I don't think the person that got the penalty would be doing any united way commercials for awhile. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/longliveanalog

09-14-2004, 03:49 PM	#11
Huckleberry College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001	Chubby - Well, if a Bill had come off the bench to tackle Lett, it would have been correct to give Dallas the touchdown. There has to be a penalty for that kind of act and the fact that Beebe caught him would merely mean that the offending Bill should have been even more berated than usual. __________________ The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog) College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings

09-14-2004, 03:43 PM	#9
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Thanks, Coug!

09-14-2004, 03:47 PM	#10
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	That's a pretty amazing rule, but I'm glad they have it.

09-14-2004, 04:06 PM	#17
Castlerock High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, Ma	On which point to you think I am in the minority?

09-14-2004, 04:12 PM	#18
judicial clerk College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR	I've got two dumb questions: When can a referee declare a forfeit? What would be the call on the runningback in The Last Boyscout who started shooting defensive players while running the ball?

09-14-2004, 07:02 PM	#26
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	It's amazing to see fans trying to come up with their own solution when, as Coug pointed out, it's in the rule book.

09-14-2004, 09:01 PM	#30
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	I LOVE what ifs!!!! What if ice tasted like French Vanilla Ice Cream? What if toots smelled like roses? What if the Allies had invaded Europe in August of 44 instead of June?

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