"Football" In The U.S.A.

[Chief Rum]

I thought some of you might get a kick out of this. Funny little article posted last week at SIGAMES.

Football In The USA

CR

[KevinNU7]

Even though I would be experienced enough, I would still take the training, because like any armchair football fan, I am well out of shape. I read a little further and sent off an email to the guy in charge. The reply soon came back from the ' U-90's.' Thinking that was just an odd American colloquialism I laughed it off, but it just kept on nagging at me. Further research revealed that ' U-90' meant that anyone, and I mean anyone in the most literal sense, under the age of ninety was quite welcome to come along and join the kick about. My jaw dropped so far I was catching flies like they were going out of fashion. I turned up to one of these 'soccer gatherings,' and not only were there people playing of all ages, but it was 'co-ed.' That is right -- men and women playing on the same sides on both teams (there were only two sides, you see. I told you football was sparse). Now, I realize the women are former world champions, but at amateur level, they are about as graceful as the Michelin man.

I wodner why he got exiled for he previous country? What a moron

[Huckleberry]

That was nice how he displayed total ignorance regarding baseball while trying to talk down about American ignorance of soccer.

What the hell does a goaltender have to do with baseball?

[KevinNU7]

Also apparently rounders is one of the top sports in America

[Chief Rum]

I wasn't posting that so we could all be ethnocentric and take shots at a foreigner. I thought it was just funny to read something like this from a different perspective.

CR

[Huckleberry]

Why is it ethnocentric of us to take shots at a person that spent hundreds of words taking shots at Americans? Besides, they were shots at displayed ignorance, regardless of his nationality. At least mine was.

[Chief Rum]

Well, you're right that perhaps he should be more understanding that things here are different, but at the same time, it seems to me you are having trouble yourself seeing it from his perspective. I am not having a problem seeing it from either end, and recognize there is no intent on his part to sully Americans, but to provide a different perspective.

Really, I see very little here to get worked about. What is there after all? He called baseball rounders? He pointed out that the average American woman at this game he attended weren't very graceful (as one would expect from a group of people who haven't played the game their entire lives like he has)? Where exactly is the big insult?

CR

[Huckleberry]

I'm not really worked up about his column. I found his blatant ignorance of American sport humorously ironic within his piece on American ignorance of his nation's sport.

Calling me ethnocentric got me worked up, I'll admit.

[CAsterling]

Interesting perspective - I experienced the no slide tackle rule when I played a few games over here - very strange.

Remember this is the most popular sport everywhere else in the world, so the guy is expressing his amasement at how with such a diverse population it has never gained acceptance in this country - IMHO he's right on some of his points, and those he is 'taking shots at Americans' on remember his target audience isn't american so he is playing to their perspective of all things American.

Also be kind to the guy he was born in Newcastle, and thats a big enough disadvantage for anybody to have to start life with.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I wasn't posting that so we could all be ethnocentric and take shots at a foreigner. I thought it was just funny to read something like this from a different perspective.

CR

Far be it from me to pass up the opportunity to take a shot at him. Maybe if he was in better shape he'd find a better league to play in. There are plenty of male-only leagues for adults. Anyway:

"I will explain a little about something I have named the 'three T's' (the trio of musketeers have nothing on this select few) -- T.V, terminology, and tenders (not the chicken kind). Television in the U.S is highly commercialised (and I thought ITV were bad). Instead of adverts every half hour, you get them every ten to fifteen minutes. Not cohesive for football viewing. Fortunately, for the most, it seems televised footy has remained elusive to the concurrent adverts. However, there are 'periods' of the game that are "now brought to you by Billybob and his spamfritters" (replace Billybob and his spamfritters with any highly overpriced item you can think of). So as well as getting over enthusiastic commentators who have recently graduated from football commentary 101, we have advertising that often has nothing to do with football whatsoever. Indeed, none more so than the 'male enhancement' commercial, that shows up at the most inappropriate moments; cue nervous shuffles by male footy fans all over America. Then you have the breaking news item about something happening at Old Trafford involving a certain Mr A. Ferguson. Only this 'Old Trafford' was in London. That is what the caption displayed anyway. How I laughed; that caused much mirth around my household."


As opposed to having the announcers make sure you are watching the BARCLAYCARD English Premier League every five minutes. How would I have known if it hadn't been plastered on every inch of the stadium? Although I agree that the text *** for amazing add-on features to your mobile and quik n' easy auto loan ads are far superior to a male enhancement ad.

[KWhit]

He can keep his stupid sport.

[SirFozzie]

No he can't.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I was expecting a good sociological read from a foreigner but found poor crap.

[GoldenEagle]

If Old Trafford appearing in London was not bad enough, the use of American terms to describe what is happening in the game is bizarre (or revolutionary; I have not quite figured out which)

I found this line very amusing. I did not really see much bashing. The guy is right, co-ed soccer sucks. I wonder what part of TN he is from. I would be interested in knowing.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I wasn't posting that so we could all be ethnocentric and take shots at a foreigner. I thought it was just funny to read something like this from a different perspective.

CR

That is how I wanted to look at it Chief, but the guy is pretty uninformed about soccer in the US. I'm here in Houston and there are numerious leagues all over the place from kids to men's leagues.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I wasn't posting that so we could all be ethnocentric and take shots at a foreigner. I thought it was just funny to read something like this from a different perspective.

CR

See, and I thought it was funny because it's the perspective from some uptight soccer ruffian who seems to think he's the soccer Messiah trapped in backwater USA.

So America isn't a great place for a displaced soccer player -- we get it. We don't care. I do find it funny that he rips Americans for not knowing anything about soccer, then shows the same disregard for American sports. That's ironic.

As for he perspective, I think this is another reason why soccer hasn't quite captured the fancy of Americans. The sport is dominated by Europeans and others who take this person's attitude -- if you don't "get" soccer like we do, then you're an idiot. That condescension rubs people the wrong way.

That and the fact we can't appreciate the "beauty" of a scoreless tie.

[sabotai]

I don't really see much bashing on his end, I just find it incredibly funny that he critisizes us for lack of proper terminology when he does the same exact thing.

The terms he calls "creative" or not creative at all. They are standard terms used here for decades.

'It's going to be tough out there on the grid today,' Here in the US, the field for american football is oftan refered to the "grid iron". ' that was a fine defensive manoeuvre,'...Don't understand this one. Marc, help me out. 'his cleats must have got stuck in the turf'Again, not sure what's strange about this. The shoes they wear are called "cleats" and have been for a very long time. The ground they are on is called "turf" and has been for a very long time. and 'the right end forward is playing well today.' I guess this is refering to "right end forward"...what's strange about that?

I know these things seem "new and strange" to the author, but they are not new and strange to us. They are basic terms used to describe things that happen in countless sports, not just soccer (football). It just sounds like this guy thinks that we just made up all these words and sayings in the last 10 years just for soccer (football).

EDIT: There's a goal-tender in baseball? Why was I not informed!?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

I was expecting a good sociological read from a foreigner but found poor crap.

Ditto.

[Mac Howard]

I agree with Chief Rum - I think you guys are being over-sensitive on this. He is writing for a European audience who genuinely (if mistakenly) can't understand why American's don't take to soccer (sorry, football) - the game that utterly dominates sports throughout most of the rest of the world. You guys - with several national sports like football (gridiron style), baseball (I used to rile Tris by calling it rounders - a game played by sub-teenage girls), basketball and hockey - probably don't realise how soccer utterly dominates other sports. There is no other sport over in Europe that comes remotely close to it. Europeans find it difficult to understand why you guys haven't fallen under its spell.

The point about tv is something I share. I tear my hair out at the way commercial tv treats soccer here in Australia - breaking into the game at the most inopportune moments to "bring a message from our sponser" or whatever. I'm watching CL football on ESPN right now. Oh dear, don't start me off on ESPN!!

I think the point about terminolgy comes from the thought that, because the game is established in the English speaking world where everyone uses the same terminology, commentators who are supposedly knowledgable about the game, should use the accepted terminology.

After all, if I were to say "Jerry Rice was a great winger" wouldn't find that amusing and have a little snigger and suggest I should call him a wide receiver like you do? What effort is involved in using the accepted terminology?

In truth I don't find some of the terminology he uses objectionable. I see nothing wrong in "catching his cleats in the turf". We would probably use "studs" but "cleats" isn't unkown in soccer and there's certainly nothing wrong with turf. Calling the pitch a "grid", when that is clearly not applicable to a field without a grid, seems a bit lazy. Would Americans not find "field" acceptable (maybe "pitch" has another meaning).?

Some Americans do tend to think that anything from England comes from London. London and England seem to be synonymous. The moment I speak when in the USA I'm greated with "Ah, you're from London. You must know ............."

I wouldn't take him too seriously. I don't think he's trying to put your guys down but merely explain the difference in attitude to soccer in an amusing and entertaining manner for a Europen audience.

[druez]

I think he is living in the wrong part of the country to understand how diehard soccer is becoming in the US. In the North East soccer is huge and was even when I was in highschool. I'm 31 now. Its growing and down south where we have a greater latino population its growing rapidly also.

The fact that we will probably win a world cup in the next 20 years or so, should solidify our dominance in yet another sport.

[Easy Mac]

I can honestly say that aside from the Olympics (where NBC had no idea how to do any commercial breaks for any sports) I haven't had a commercial during a soccer game for at least 5 years (not including half-time). Sure, there's tiny ads on the screen, and ESPN does the stupid "magic minute," but aside from that, there are no breaks in the game. Well, maybe FoxSports Net when they show abbreviated EPL games.

Also, what announcers does he listen to? Does Nashville have a team in the A-league still? Perhaps thats why he hears weird terminology. I've honestly never heard the term "grid" to desribe any field in sports. I'd defy anyone in Europe to run off the names and locations of most major sports arenas in the US, even those who are familiar with the sport. Even so, I'd say the announcers are more attuned to the US side of soccer and not as much with the European side. I personally think he was listening to some country bumpkins describe the game, or perhaps Ty Keough.

Finally, what's wrong with allowing everyone to be involved with the game. Unless I'm mistaken, he never said he played in a league, but instead with a group of people who wanted to play the game for fun. God forbid they try to protect people who do other things for a living. I highly doubt that every league in England is ultra-competitive, no holds bar soccer. Hell, I know in this town alone they have 4 or 5 groups that always get together to play, a couple of leagues that have varying degrees of competition based on age, sex, and skill.

And shouldn't he end it be match instead of game

[sabotai]

Professional soccer may not be all that big in the states, but high school soccer was pretty big, at least in my school. My high school won the Division II state championship my freshmen year, and we had several guys choose playing soccer over football (american).

[Mac Howard]

Most Europeans who are not rabid fans of their local club and hate everything outside it would like to see the game take off in the US. It would bring enormous benefits to the game (not to mention money )

I find the MLS game style very attractive. It's a quick, close passing game that is very entertaining. Currently they'd probably get barged off the field in a Premiership game but the quality on the ball wouldn't compare badly at all. If it could only get the financial backing and compete better for the quality athletes that currently go to other games then I don't doubt the game would quickly become competitive in world terms. Even as it is it will do so within the next 10 years I think.

The US national team does very well because of the team game they play. The individual players still have some way to go to match the Europeans and South Americans but the teamwork makes up for a lot of that and they're not far even now from being very competitive. With a few individuals coming through I wouldn't be surprised if your prediction of a World Cup win within 20 years came true. And there could be nothing better for the image of the game within the US.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

After all, if I were to say "Jerry Rice was a great winger" wouldn't find that amusing and have a little snigger and suggest I should call him a wide receiver like you do? What effort is involved in using the accepted terminology?

If you were doing a show on american football in Europe or Australia where it's not popular, would your audience know what you meant if you used the term "wide receiver"? Or would they quickly pick up on it if you used the word "winger"?

The job of the commentors is to commentate the game for a specific audience. In the states, they are called cleats, not studs. You call them studs here, you get a lot of confused looks. It's called a field, not a pitch. You use the word pitch (which is something the ptcher does in baseball) and you get a lot of confused people.

Diehard soccer fans probably know these words, but the average american doesn't. And if soccer is going to gain any popularity in the US, the people describing the game to casual fans or first time watchers have to do it in a way so they can understand what is going on. If they don't, the audience changes the channel.

This doesn't apply to just soccer either. Any sport in the US that isn't one of the top 4 is always compared to one of the top 4. Using those terms. Using analogies to those sports so that the causal and first time viewers can understand what is going on.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Professional soccer may not be all that big in the states, but high school soccer was pretty big, at least in my school. My high school won the Division II state championship my freshmen year, and we had several guys choose playing soccer over football (american).

It may be that what has happened here in Australia will happen in the US. 5 years ago it was said that more kids played soccer than any other football code (three of them here) which I believe is already said of the US. This year it was announced that now there are more 17 year old and upwards males playing soccer than any other code (Aussie Rules previously the first) and there are more kids playing it than all the other codes put together.

Yet the media still ignores it. That is the real nut it needs to crack!

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by sabotai

If you were doing a show on american football in Europe or Australia where it's not popular, would your audience know what you meant if you used the term "wide receiver"? Or would they quickly pick up on it if you used the word "winger"?

Diehard soccer fans probably know these words, but the average american doesn't.

The game is shown in both Europe and Australia and the term wide receiver and all the other correct terms are used. The average American would learn them quite rapidly if the commentators used them just as I learnt the gridfiron terms (reasonably well) from watching the NFL on Channel Four in the UK. They even went to the trouble of bringing American ex-players into the London studios to comment on the game and give it an authentic flavour.

Of course today we get American transmissions via satellite.

[sabotai]

They've been saying that for several years, actually (that more kids play soccer than anything else). Women's soccer has been pretty popular, recently, though. Maybe the success that the women's soccer team has been having is the product of that. Who knows what it will be like in 5 years.

But I doubt it's really going to change. American Football is so huge in the states, both professional and college. Baseball is huge (Got me on why... ). Basketball and Hockey (lockout...DAMN!!). The big four are so big compared to all other sports, it's hard to see how soccer is going to crack into it at all. Just as soccer is so huge in many other countries that it seems impossible for another sport to come close to competing. The same can be said about American Football in the states.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by druez

The fact that we will probably win a world cup in the next 20 years or so, should solidify our dominance in yet another sport.

Ugh. You see, this is why people in other countries hate us and call us arrogant--because of attitudes like this. It's not a matter of whether it's true (for all I know, druez is spot on). But it's that we have a number of people who seem willing to spout off things like this before they have come to pass.

CR

[sabotai]

How about this...

Yes it is lazy. Americans like things lazy. That ain't gonna change. That's it.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by druez

The fact that we will probably win a world cup in the next 20 years or so, should solidify our dominance in yet another sport.

Roffle. That is all.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by sabotai

They've been saying that for several years, actually (that more kids play soccer than anything else). Women's soccer has been pretty popular, recently, though. Maybe the success that the women's soccer team has been having is the product of that. Who knows what it will be like in 5 years.

But I doubt it's really going to change. American Football is so huge in the states, both professional and college. Baseball is huge (Got me on why... ). Basketball and Hockey (lockout...DAMN!!). The big four are so big compared to all other sports, it's hard to see how soccer is going to crack into it at all. Just as soccer is so huge in many other countries that it seems impossible for another sport to come close to competing. The same can be said about American Football in the states.

I wonder if the Women's success might work against the game because it allows gridiron fans to call it a "girls game" to support the idea that it's only mildly physical.

That happens here. "Soccer's for wimps" is the cry. One well known soccer commentator has written a book entiled "Puffs, Wops and Sheilas" to criticise the way the game is presented here (roughly translated as "homosexuals, Italians/Greeks and girls" )

But when the 2002 World Cup Final was played (for once in our time zone) the tv audience was larger than any other tv show of any sort for the year despite the fact that Australia wasn't even in the finals let alone the Final.

The media and other codes play a very dirty game here and the sports editor of Australia's premier newspaper has said that the guys at the top of the Aussie Rules admin are terrified of soccer getting a better media deal. They threaten the media with restricting access to their code if they give too much attention to soccer. Because Aussie Rules is still the premier code that keeps soccer out of the headlines unless it's bad news (the only time I saw soccer on the front page of the sports section of The Australian was following a fan's fracas when the whole of the page was given over to the story and a full half of the page was coloured to simulate dripping blood. Seriously!)

[sabotai]

I like Aussie Rules football. I remember watching all the time in the 90's, back when they would play a few matches every week on some local channel here. But anyway...

I wonder if the Women's success might work against the game because it allows gridiron fans to call it a "girls game" to support the idea that it's only mildly physical.

I have no doubt that will happen. Women's sports in america just don't have mainstream popularity as well. So while it may "take off" for the women, it still will not have mainstream popularity.

[Chief Rum]

Hey, Mac, can you define "code" for me, as you are using it here? That is most definitely not American (of course, given you're an Aussie ).

I think I have the gist of it, but I think might be missing nuance here.

CR

[sabotai]

Going off of context, I'd say in Australia there are three different "codes" of football (soccer, Aussie Rules and rugby). From the way he used it, I think he means "rules set" or something like that.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Hey, Mac, can you define "code" for me, as you are using it here? That is most definitely not American (of course, given you're an Aussie ).

I think I have the gist of it, but I think might be missing nuance here.

CR

I'm what Aussies call a "pom" - a Brit that emigrated to Oz. Pom is Aussie irony (English irony with a real bite) and refers to the original settlers = Prisoners Of His Majesty (POHM)

The word "code" refers to the rules of the game so the soccer code is the game that plays to soccer rules.

There are four "codes" in Australia. Soccer, of course, Aussie Rules (the premier code here), Rugby Union and Rugby League. Rugby League was originally the Rugby Union modified to have a commercial appeal. Interestingly the modifications are similar to gridiron in that a tackled player stops the game and plays the ball back as in a gridiron snap. The difference is that it takes place immediately, within seconds of the player getting to his feet, and it results in a similar game of territory being gained with each play. But it differs in that it's continuous and only 6 consecutive plays are allowed before the ball changes sides.

It's a very fast and VERY rough game. The players are the very pinnacle of athletic power - brick sh*thouses that move like a train. The comparison goes "rugby union is a thugs game played by gentlemen, soccer a gentlemen's game played by thugs and rugby league a thugs game played by thugs". Aussie Rules is renamed Aussie No_Rules and is unbelievably violent at times.

[sabotai]

Heh. I did a search for Rubgy League and got their official site. Their list of injured players is called the "Casualty Ward". I hope that's intentional and not just another terminology difference. "Casualty Ward" is a cool name for an injured players list.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Heh. I did a search for Rubgy League and got their official site. Their list of injured players is called the "Casualty Ward". I hope that's intentional and not just another terminology difference. "Casualty Ward" is a cool name for an injured players list.

Two comments on that:

the "casualty ward" is usually as big as the squad

being on the "casualty ward" doesn't stop these guys playing

These are teams of Shreks!

[sabotai]

hxxp://nrl.com/multimedia/telstravideo.cfm

You won't see the NFL do this. They put the games up so you can watch them (streaming, anyway). (This is the Rugby League)

[druez]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Ugh. You see, this is why people in other countries hate us and call us arrogant--because of attitudes like this. It's not a matter of whether it's true (for all I know, druez is spot on). But it's that we have a number of people who seem willing to spout off things like this before they have come to pass.

CR

Adu, Freddy going to be a total star. The kind of star we've been missing that has that great first touch. 2006 the next world cup? Anyway, whatever year the next cup is, Freddy will be 17ish. Strikers are pretty solid until they are in their early 30's. I'm thinking this current team we have will peak in two world cups from now. Beasley and Donnavan will be vets, freddy will be in his prime and the goaltender on Man U. Tim Howard.

Anyway, we are up and coming.

Frankly, I could give a squat people think Americans are arrogant. For the most part we are and have every right to be. First of all we are made up of every country in the world, so we have all the strengths of all the various races/nations combined into our one nation. Different arguement for a different time.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by sabotai

hxxp://nrl.com/multimedia/telstravideo.cfm

You won't see the NFL do this. They put the games up so you can watch them (streaming, anyway). (This is the Rugby League)

That's good. I didn't know about that site. It's quite reasonable even on 56k modem. As you can see the best players are a mix of running back and linebacker.

As a kid I was a keen League fan. I lived only 300 metres or so from the Rochdale Hornets ground. Spent many a frustrating Saturday afternoon supporting the 'nets.

I've played the game a couple of times. But picked my face out of the mud and thought "to hell with this I'm going back to the sissies' game".

On a totally different note: did you see the USA cricket team playing the Aussies? I'll bet that didn't make it on to national tv

How long do we give it before cricket takes over from baseball

[sabotai]

I didn't even know the US had a cricket team...but I do know that cricket players and former cricket players have the highest rate of suicide among all athletes...

I just got done watching the Cowboys vs Bulldogs game. Holy crap are they rough. I now think the NFL treats their players like total sissies. At one point in the game, a Cowboy player pushed one Bulldog player after a tackle occured. Another Bulldog player took offense to this, and punched the Cowboy player right on the chin. He took it and a shoving metch occured.

The best part? The referee told the Cowboy player it wouldn't have happened if he didn't start it by pushing the Bulldog player after the tackle! So the Cowboys got the penalty and the Bulldogs took over possesion! I love any sport where punching a guy in the face is legal as long as you don't start it.

And yeah, they all look like linebackers/power running backs. Without any pads. Some of them are fast as hell too. Out of nowhere they take the ball and up the field they go. Very exciting game.

EDIT: And no, I don't think I'd ever actually play this game.

[rdo]

sabotai you picked well with the Bulldogs-Cowboys game it was far and away the best match of the round (First round of the finals) with the Cowboys pulling a huge upset over the more fancied Bulldogs.

The first international cricket match ever was played between the US and Canada in 1844. I read an article discussing US cricket not long ago (couldn't find it again) and apparently Cricket was popular in the US back in the 1800's but the Cricket clubs actively tried to keep the game exclusive, so the less affluent members of society played baseball instead and the rest as they say is history.

[Bee]

The title of this thread needs to be changed to indicate it's about soccer.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Bee

The title of this thread needs to be changed to indicate it's about soccer.

Did you notice the "" quotes?

It's not like I didn't give a clue.

CR

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by druez

Adu, Freddy going to be a total star. The kind of star we've been missing that has that great first touch. 2006 the next world cup? Anyway, whatever year the next cup is, Freddy will be 17ish. Strikers are pretty solid until they are in their early 30's. I'm thinking this current team we have will peak in two world cups from now. Beasley and Donnavan will be vets, freddy will be in his prime and the goaltender on Man U. Tim Howard.

Anyway, we are up and coming.

Frankly, I could give a squat people think Americans are arrogant. For the most part we are and have every right to be. First of all we are made up of every country in the world, so we have all the strengths of all the various races/nations combined into our one nation. Different arguement for a different time.

Roffle- you really don't get it, do you ? Adu is hardly a certain star- I'd urge you to learn a little more about football without making proclamations like this- the NIl Lampey story shines out in recent history. Beasly is a decent player, and Donovan has the potential to be fairly good- but that doesnt make it a world cup winning team. As for the arrogance, coming from people like you- well its priceless.

[SirFozzie]

I do think US Soccer (yes, I call it soccer, get over yourselves) is one of the 15 best teams in the world today. Ask Portugal, or Mexico. Ask Germany, who we took to the absolute limits. They are not always CONSISTENT.. but at their best, there isn't a side in the world that they couldn't beat.

There is also momentum behind the sport now here in the USA.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Did you notice the "" quotes?

It's not like I didn't give a clue.

CR

I thought it was going to be naked women football.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Roffle- you really don't get it, do you ? Adu is hardly a certain star- I'd urge you to learn a little more about football without making proclamations like this- the NIl Lampey story shines out in recent history. Beasly is a decent player, and Donovan has the potential to be fairly good- but that doesnt make it a world cup winning team. As for the arrogance, coming from people like you- well its priceless.

I played soccer since I was 5. So, I'm hardly new to the sport. Our goalie is on an england premiership team? We were going to the semi's if that non call on the handball didn't occur in the world cup.

Anyway, that is fine you can disagree. Where are you from Aadik? England? When was the last time they won a world cup?

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

I wonder if the Women's success might work against the game because it allows gridiron fans to call it a "girls game" to support the idea that it's only mildly physical.

I would say the rolling around on the grass like a little bitch who's been shot in the leg when you weren't even touched has a little more to do with that perception than our women's team's success.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

The US national team does very well because of the team game they play. The individual players still have some way to go to match the Europeans and South Americans but the teamwork makes up for a lot of that and they're not far even now from being very competitive. With a few individuals coming through I wouldn't be surprised if your prediction of a World Cup win within 20 years came true. And there could be nothing better for the image of the game within the US.

I found this comment very intriguing. Replace "football" with "basketball", and flip-flop the "USA" with the rest of the world, and you pretty much sum up the international basketball community of 10 to 15 years ago.