Alan Keyes "Slave Reparation" plan

[GrantDawg]

Can't believe this hasn't been brought up:




MSNBC.com
[font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif]Reversal of attitude: Alan Keyes on reparations[/font]
Conservative calling for tax exemption for descendants of slaves

By Christine Phillip
BET.com
Updated: 6:47 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2004

Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate who once referred to reparations as “an insult to our slave ancestors,” is now calling for a plan that would exempt the descendants of slaves from income taxes for at least a generation.

Tax exemption would give Blacks "a competitive edge in the labor market," because they would be cheaper to hire than federal tax-paying employee" and allow Blacks to be compensated "for all those years when your labor was being exploited," said Keyes, who is challenging Illinois state Sen. Barack Obama for the U.S. Senate seat.

Keyes' different turn
The ancestors of slaves would be precluded from paying federal taxes for a generation or two. The exemption would apply only to federal taxes, as opposed to state taxes, since slavery "was an egregious failure on the part of the federal establishment,” Keyes said. There would be no exemption from Social Security taxes, however.

But Keyes’ recent pronouncements are puzzling some observers, who remember his expressed disdain for reparations not that long ago.

In 2002, for example, as a commentator for the MSNBC program “Making Sense,” Keyes lambasted former D.C. Delegate Walter Fauntroy for suggesting that the descendants of enslaved Africans should be compensated for centuries of forced, free labor.

“The issue of slavery was very prominent in the minds of the young men who went into the cannon's mouth during the Civil War,” Keyes railed. “[A] lot of folks went consciously, believing that God called them to give their lives to repair the moral wrong of slavery. Something money could not do. So, they gave their blood.”

“Now, it seems to me that by the very comparison you're suggesting, almost I feel an insult to our slave ancestors. You want to tell me that what they suffered can actually be repaired with money? You're going to do the same thing those slaveholders did, put a money price on something that can't possibly be quantified in that way.”

Conservative critic David Horowitz, also a guest on the show, praised Keyes’ insight.

Keyes: "Frivolous suits"
“Well, Alan, you put it very eloquently, yourself. This is a shakedown operation; the United States government liberated the slaves…,” Horowitz said. “The United States inherited from Britain a slave system, and within 80 years ended slavery at the cost of the equivalent of 5 million lives. We have dealt with slavery in this country — another thing, Black Americans are the richest and freest and most privileged Blacks on the face of the Earth.

“The United States is a country that Americans should be proud of for ending slavery. And this whole, you know — you started with the suits against companies, completely frivolous suits. The companies that exist today have nothing to do with the companies of 150 years ago.”

Reparations advocate Charles Ogletree, a law professor at Harvard University, applauded Keyes’ recent conversion.

“It’s a step in the right direction,” said Ogletree, whose views on affirmative action, as well as on reparations, have conflicted with those of Keyes in the past. “It captures the sentiments of many who are for reparations. It’s not nearly as comprehensive to address the magnitude of the matter, but it is consistent with issues in finding real solutions.”

Keyes is facing a tough battle to unseat the popular, charismatic state senator from Illinois. Obama, grabbed virtually every major headline and lead TV story after delivering a rousing speech at the Democratic Convention last month. Keyes, an African American from Maryland who admittedly knows little about the issues affecting residents of Illinois, was drafted by the Republican Party to run against Obama. But Keyes is no novice to national politics: He ran two unsuccessful bids for the U.S. Senate, and he sought the Republican nomination for the White House in 2000.


© 2004 BET.com. All rights reserved.
URL: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5747800/

[SirFozzie]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..

Wait.. he's serious?

This is not a flip flop, this is a fish out of water flopping, choking in air.

[Token Asian Guy]

It's an election year. There's what politicians say...and then there's what they really do.

[Fonzie]

Alan Keyes is a crazy person.

[Easy Mac]

couldn't we just count blacks as 2/3 of a person, that would make them count less against taxes, correct?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

couldn't we just count blacks as 2/3 of a person, that would make them count less against taxes, correct?

Brilliant.

[GrantDawg]

Alamn Keye's is a bit insane, but I have to say this plan is not all bad. It has a lot of upside, though it also opens up many problems.

[Easy Mac]

So if they don't pay federal taxes, does that mean the old "no taxation without representation" gets reversed to "no representation without taxation?" You know, this might actually work out for Repubs... this could take away half the Dem's voting block.

Kudos to Keyes for finding a nice loophole.

And its nice to know that the states in no way supported slavery, didn't split from the federal government, and engage in a war against the federal government to keep it... buts its still not a failure of state governments.

(note, this is all a joke)

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So if they don't pay federal taxes, does that mean the old "no taxation without representation" gets reversed to "no representation without taxation?" You know, this might actually work out for Repubs... this could take away half the Dem's voting block.

Kudos to Keyes for finding a nice loophole.

And its nice to know that the states in no way supported slavery, didn't split from the federal government, and engage in a war against the federal government to keep it... buts its still not a failure of state governments.

(note, this is all a joke)

Not really funny, though. They would still pay taxes (SS, state tax, etc.), but they would not have to pay income tax. How exactly is that a bad thing?

[Easy Mac]

Because you're giving blacks a hand out simply for being black?

[amdaily]

And to think I voted for that lunatic 4 years ago .

[Easy Mac]

dola, the Irish, Chinese and other ethnic groups were also enslaved at various times throughout American history, so unless you intend to cut some slack for all of those people, it pretty much defeats the entire purpose...

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Because you're giving blacks a hand out simply for being black?

So your against any type of reparations. Got cha.

[GrantDawg]

I would continue to debate you Easy Mac, but since you have no character....

[Easy Mac]

I do have a caricature though... unfortunately its a big circle because I can't draw.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

So your against any type of reparations. Got cha.

So at what point are you drawing the line? Only full blacks should get reparations? How 'bout folks of mixed heritage? Is there some magical formula you're going to use, now, that determines which people have just enough percentage of former slave blood to qualify for an income tax exemption, and which people are just going to have to grin and bear it?

As somebody else pointed out, what about other groups who have been mistreated in the past? The Chinese were treated atrociously in California during the gold rush, the Irish caught an awful lot of crap in New York, and the Indians, well...you've heard of the "Trail of Tears," right?

So, naturally, since we're considering reparations for slavery, we'll be granting reparations to people of Chinese, Irish, and Indian descent, correct?

While you're chewing on that, what does that mean for the taxes of those who don't qualify? Will the Democrats propose raising taxes on everybody else to make up for the income shortfall? That seems, in essence, like punishing people alive today for acts committed a half-dozen generations ago. "You're black, you get a pass on income taxes for 25 years because of what happened to your ancestors 150 years ago, but you, you're white, so you get to bear the financial burden of that because of what YOUR ancestors did 150 years ago."

But this is fundamentally about fairness, right? Silly me.

[Easy Mac]

Well, Indians do have casinos and tax exempt land, so unless you want to give black Georgia and crack houses, thats a bad example

(and that was a bad joke again, no offense meant, just listing different stereotypes, but unfortunately I couldn't work drunk Irish hooligans into the discussion... this time)

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Well, Indians do have casinos and tax exempt land, so unless you want to give black Georgia and crack houses, thats a bad example

(and that was a bad joke again, no offense meant, just listing different stereotypes, but unfortunately I couldn't work drunk Irish hooligans into the discussion... this time)

That shit isn't no where near funny.

[Easy Mac]

We didn't give the Jews a country, just Miramax and Disney (and mainly Euro Disney)

[Antmeister]

What I think is interesting is what do you consider Black and how will you have to prove it. A majority of American Blacks have some Indian, Caucasian and even Latino in their blood (for various reasons). Do you have to be a certain percentage? Will I have to whip out a family tree? Does children in mixed families see the same benefits. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

While you're chewing on that, what does that mean for the taxes of those who don't qualify? Will the Democrats propose raising taxes on everybody else to make up for the income shortfall? That seems, in essence, like punishing people alive today for acts committed a half-dozen generations ago. "You're black, you get a pass on income taxes for 25 years because of what happened to your ancestors 150 years ago, but you, you're white, so you get to bear the financial burden of that because of what YOUR ancestors did 150 years ago."

But this is fundamentally about fairness, right? Silly me.

I'm hoping someone really for reparations comes in and takes on the arguement, because I'm not a reparations fan. I think though this plan is by far the best I have heard. But just to note some of these contentions:

We have paid reparations to Indians in the past, and still do today. So, we are in affect punishing people today for the acts of others many years ago. Actually, in the mind of those who argue for it, it is paying back the benefits you now enjoy because of evil actions of the past.

Again, I'm not a big reparations fan, and agree there is going to be many problems with payment (how much proof of ancestory? What percentage? etc.), but if reparations are going to be paid, I like this idea better than any others I have heard.

[Easy Mac]

Isn't 1/32 minority to qualify for affirmative action? I'd assume that.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

What I think is interesting is what do you consider Black and how will you have to prove it. A majority of American Blacks have some Indian, Caucasian and even Latino in their blood (for various reasons). Do you have to be a certain percentage? Will I have to whip out a family tree? Does children in mixed families see the same benefits. It doesn't make any sense to me.

I imagine it would be the same way we prove American Indian blood today. I don't know what percentage is suggested, but AI recieve benefits at 1/16th of ancestory.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by Noop

That shit isn't no where near funny.

So how near funny is it?

[Antmeister]

Geez Easy Mac, you are on a roll there. Not a positive role, but a roll nonetheless.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Isn't 1/32 minority to qualify for affirmative action? I'd assume that.

You may be right. I thought it was 1/16th.

[Noop]

I am not for reparations I am more about funding programs to help the less fortune stand on their own to feet.

[CraigSca]

"The ancestors of slaves would be precluded from paying federal taxes for a generation or two." Sounds well thought out to me! /rolleyes

[GrantDawg]

dola: I was thinking AI benefits which may be different than AA.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

So how near funny is it?

Get off my nutts. You have been trolling me all day. Let my nutts get some air!

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The ancestors of slaves would be precluded from paying federal taxes for a generation or two.

I support this 100%. Thanks for pointing it out, man. I demand that our government refuse to accept tax payments from slaves' ancestors.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I imagine it would be the same way we prove American Indian blood today. I don't know what percentage is suggested, but AI recieve benefits at 1/16th of ancestory.

That still doesn't make any sense. I know a lot of people who could fall under a percentage who fall into categories of other races.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Noop

I am not for reparations I am more about funding programs to help the less fortune stand on their own to feet.

That's is not bad, but the benefit of this system would be keeping money in the community and encouraging more investment. It would also add benefit for employers to hire Black applicants.

[Easy Mac]

tion 1/32

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You may be right. I thought it was 1/16th.

I'm not entirely sure... I know I sure as hell used the system to my advantage (1/2 Mexican).

[Huckleberry]

Your days must be very boring if two posts hours apart equals all day.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

That still doesn't make any sense. I know a lot of people who could fall under a percentage who fall into categories of other races.

Again, I imagine the same way this is ruled on for AI. It would not nessecarily be by "race category" (which may cause backlash in other ways) but by proof of ancestory. In some cases, that may be hard to prove (another downfall).

[GrantDawg]

BTW, AI is American Indian, not Allen Iverson.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Again, I imagine the same way this is ruled on for AI. It would not nessecarily be by "race category" (which may cause backlash in other ways) but by proof of ancestory. In some cases, that may be hard to prove (another downfall).

Lets do literacy tests... its more fun that way

(BTW, not picking on you or anything, I'm in a weird mood at the moment. Sometimes these things need humor just to keep it from exploding like other politics threads)

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

BTW, AI is American Indian, not Allen Iverson.

If everyone was 1/16th Allen Iverson, we'd all be in some trouble.

But you may be right, I think American Indian qualifications are less stringent than things for Affirmative Action.

I had friends who were considered American Indians because their great-grandfather was (still only 1/8, but thats the best I can do).

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Again, I imagine the same way this is ruled on for AI. It would not nessecarily be by "race category" (which may cause backlash in other ways) but by proof of ancestory. In some cases, that may be hard to prove (another downfall).

That's exactly my point. It's not like I can go back in my family tree and prove that so and so was a slave. While I know darn well I was, I cannot provide tangible proof. That is why it is so difficult being labeled nowadays. A majority of people think a particular race is going to receive benefit, when it is actually a majority of mixed and unmixed races who will benefit.

[Franklinnoble]

My ancestors were enslaved by the Roman empire about 2,000 years ago. Can I apply for tax exempt status?

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Noop

Get off my nutts. You have been trolling me all day. Let my nutts get some air!

I can't decide if I'd make this QOTM material or not... but it's funny.

[Easy Mac]

are your ancestors tigers, because then you shouldn't need any reparations.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

My ancestors were enslaved by the Roman empire about 2,000 years ago. Can I apply for tax exempt status?

Apply at your local Roman government offices. I think you can safely stop paying your taxes to the Roman government rigt now.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Apply at your local Roman government offices. I think you can safely stop paying your taxes to the Roman government rigt now.

Or become pope... I don't think he pays taxes in the vatican.

[Antmeister]

Of course, no one is jumping on Alan Keyes' flip flopping. C'mon people, this guy is just as bad (if not more so) than Kerry.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

That's exactly my point. It's not like I can go back in my family tree and prove that so and so was a slave. While I know darn well I was, I cannot provide tangible proof. That is why it is so difficult being labeled nowadays. A majority of people think a particular race is going to receive benefit, when it is actually a majority of mixed and unmixed races who will benefit.

You would probably be surprised on what you could find with a little effort. Groups for reparations (or just interested in geneology in particular) might have much more information than you think. It probably would be that some would not be able to come up with the info, but I think it would be a pretty small percentage.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Of course, no one is jumping on Alan Keyes' flip flopping. C'mon people, this guy is just as bad (if not more so) than Kerry.

I think his flip-flop is bad, but I'm really more interested in the opinions on the issue than the politics of it.

[cuervo72]

Damn, I bet this plan will get Oprah to vote for him.

[Easy Mac]

but Oprah was directly affected by slavery, she was in Beloved... she experienced it first hand.