OT: First year law advice?

[Z²+]

Greetings fellow FOFC'ers. One week from now, I will be beginning law school at the University of Pittsburgh (after spending 4 years there as an undergraduate). While I am extremely excited to start this new chapter in my life, I am also somewhat anxious/nervous. I've always done well in adademic pursuits, and hope the trend continues with the study of law. I've been told by several people that the first year of law school will be unlike anything I've ever experienced, and I believe this uncertainty is manifesting itself as fear/apprehension. I was hoping any lawyers and/or law students at FOFC would have any helpful tips to offer. I've heard plenty of the "doom and gloom" about how difficult it will be, but I am hoping for any constructive suggestions for how to approach law school.
I look forward to reading any advice, and I thank any contributors in advance!

[Lathum]

all I can say is good luck and dont sue me in 4 years

[Honolulu_Blue]

First year is key. This cannot be stressed enough. Apparently clerkship applications have been pushed back and are now only being accepted after your second year, making the second year a little more important than in the past, but I think the old wisdom still holds "First year is key." You do well your first year you can get on law review or get a decent summer job both after your first year and, much more importantly, after your second year. Job interviews for your "second summer" tend to happen at the begining of, or before, the start of your second year. All they have to base your "legal skills" on are your first year grades. (This is how firms work. If you're looking for something in government or public sector, things will work differently.)

People have different approaches to school and studying, but here is how I approached my first year of law school and things I should have done differently.

If I recall correctly, typically I would study anywhere from 3-4 hours a day Sunday-Thursday during my first semester. The law will seem like a completely foreign language at first. Most classes tend to start off with very old cases that use all sorts of latin phrases and cite to ancient legal scholars and such. The most memorable of these was my first "property" case that involved a fox hunt. You will want to run to Black's Law dictionary over and over again. I don't know if it's worth buying. It looks nice on the shelf, but after my first semester I don't think I ever looked at it again. Ever.

Study guides can be pretty helpful. I forget the names of them all now, but they tend to breakt things down in a simple and logical way. They aren't a substitute for reading the actual cases, but reading the summaries just before or after you read the case will at least give you a road map of the important issues. I didn't take advantage of them, felt like it was reading cliff notes or something. They also cost about $20 a piece. Still, they are not a bad supplementary resource. Probably should have used them more often.

During my first semester I made a one sheet print out that I used to outline every case. Filling in the facts, the issues, the relevant law, etc. It was definitely way overboard (never did it again), but I think it was a good way to try and get my mind around everything that was going on.

Outlines are the popular way to study for finals. Everyone does them. They are a good way to study and organize your thoughts. Most exams will either be open book or take home (still open book), so having a good outline will help you spot the issues and apply the relevant law rather quickly.

Things will get much easier once you get past the learning curve. That's the thing with law school. It's not like highschool or college where things are sort of designed (for the most part) to get progressively more difficult. Some classes may be harder than others, but it's not progressive. Once you learn how to read cases (it is a skill) and have done it enough times (you will by the end of your first semester), what once took you an hour to read you will be able to read in 15-30 minutes and still get more out of it. The amount I studied for each class (not including finals) declined each semester.

In addition to outlines, I always found it helpful to make a study plan. I would sitdown with a calender and pencil in a subject to study either in half-days or total days. This helped give me goals to reach and give some structure to an otherwise structureless time.

Good luck!

[Peregrine]

No threadjacking intended, but since this is a subject I have some interest in, I thought I might toss in a few questions for anyone who might know. I've considered going to law school as the start of a second career, after several years in the technical field. I'm wondering first of all if it would be a mistake to do this "late in the game" instead of straight out of college. I'm not that old, 34, but it's still a pretty big difference from someone just coming out of school. I would hope to be able to leverage my technical experience by trying to focus on areas of the law where it would be applicable. Also, is it common to get loans to pay for law school tuition, like it was when I was in graduate school? Or is it considered a different sort of education, aside from the usual student loan rules?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

No threadjacking intended, but since this is a subject I have some interest in, I thought I might toss in a few questions for anyone who might know. I've considered going to law school as the start of a second career, after several years in the technical field. I'm wondering first of all if it would be a mistake to do this "late in the game" instead of straight out of college. I'm not that old, 34, but it's still a pretty big difference from someone just coming out of school. I would hope to be able to leverage my technical experience by trying to focus on areas of the law where it would be applicable. Also, is it common to get loans to pay for law school tuition, like it was when I was in graduate school? Or is it considered a different sort of education, aside from the usual student loan rules?

There were a handful of people, maybe a dozen or more, who were your age or older in my law school class. I think plenty of people do it. I don't think it's too "late in the game" by any stretch of the imagination. You are probably in a better place to do well in law school and really take advantage of the opportunity. I think, on average, people who took some time off between undergrad and law school tended to do better.

I would just be certain it's something you wanted to do and perhaps have a plan in place of what kind of law you'd want to do and how to incorporate your past working experience into it.

As for loans, the government and private institutions are MORE than happy to give you loans for law school. The return is usually pretty good on them. I borrowed around $30,000 a year for law school. Around $18,500 from the government and $11,500 from private institutions. I graduated in 2000 and still have plenty of loans to pay off.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

No threadjacking intended, but since this is a subject I have some interest in, I thought I might toss in a few questions for anyone who might know. I've considered going to law school as the start of a second career, after several years in the technical field. I'm wondering first of all if it would be a mistake to do this "late in the game" instead of straight out of college. I'm not that old, 34, but it's still a pretty big difference from someone just coming out of school. I would hope to be able to leverage my technical experience by trying to focus on areas of the law where it would be applicable. Also, is it common to get loans to pay for law school tuition, like it was when I was in graduate school? Or is it considered a different sort of education, aside from the usual student loan rules?

No real first-hand knowledge here, but FWIW, I've known 2-3 people who went back & got their law degree at the "second career" phase of their lives. One was a U.S. marine who went into real estate law, the other IIRC was into historic preservation & decided it'd be useful to have someone who knew that field working the legal side of the street.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Z²+

I am hoping for any constructive suggestions for how to approach law school.

I hope this will qualify as constructive advice, that's how it's intended anyway.

When that apprehension strikes, consider this: Think of the number of sheer idiots who are wandering around with law degrees.

And no, that's not a shot at lawyers, it's just a fact of life -- most professions include a number of people who don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain.

Now, if they finished law school, and if they passed the bar ... well, why on earth would you worry that you won't make it through / succeed?

In some way or another, I suspect a lot of us have been where I think you are a little bit -- wanting something so much that the thought of getting it is a little intimidating. Chew on that if you must, but wash it down with a highball glass of "Hey, I managed to put myself in the position to do this, and that says something about me."

FWIW,
Jon

[Peregrine]

the other IIRC was into historic preservation & decided it'd be useful to have someone who knew that field working the legal side of the street.

My sister does historic preservation/planning and as much as they run into legal entanglements, I could see this being pretty useful.

[Karim]

I shouldn't give advice but from someone who dropped out after the first year I can say make sure everything away from law school is in order - physical and mental health, finances, family and relationships and anything else that may distract you or weigh on your mind. Make sure none of those things get in the way so that you can focus on studying and learning.

I didn't.

[Ksyrup]

Check out this thread:

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/for...+school+advice

Once you get into it, I and some others give some advice for starting out in law school. I'm too lazy to type it all out again.

[albionmoonlight]

1.) Buy all your study guides used from 2nd and 3rd year students. They are looking to unload them, and there is no reason for you to pay full price. And don't bother with them until you have been in school for a couple of weeks to see what you need.

2.) If at all possible, do not work outside of school during the first year. Take out an extra living expense loan if you have to. As HB explains, the first year is key.

3.) When studying for exams, the best method for me was to take lots of mock exams. The UNC library keeps past exams for all the professors which you can take. Your school will probably do something similar. Much better to prepare by getting used to the actual exams than by burying yourself in canned outlines, etc.

4.)GO TO CLASS. TAKE GOOD NOTES. Your exams will be based on what your professors teach you in class. Nothing more, nothing less. GO TO CLASS. TAKE GOOD NOTES.

5.)Don't worry about those 1Ls who are in the library until 11:00 PM every night studying. They are doing lots and lots of extra work that they do not need to do. And a suprising number of them actually don't do too well. They just don't "get it." Much better to study smart than hard.

6.) Your professor is giving the test. If she seems really really interested in a certain aspect of the class, maybe you should be, too. And if there is a certain phrase that the professor likes to use to describe something--nothing wrong with quoting it back to the professor.

7.) Take time for yourself. In college, you had to block out time to study. First year can be so overwhelming that you feel pressured to work all of the time. Don't. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Catch the Steelers games. Play some basketball. Hang out with your friends from undergrad. Continue, in other words, to act like a human being. You'll be suprised that you tend to feel like one, too.

[digamma]

I'd echo what everyone else has said. The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is finding out more about your professors. If you know any second or third years, show them your schedule and let them tell you about who you have. For example, my torts professor had authored a book on no fault insurance. He taught the class normally, but it was known that his test was always one question that basically boiled down to "How do you feel about no fault insurance?" Most aren't to that extreme, but you can find out things like who cold calls in class, who calls on people according to the alphabetical roll, who counts class participation, etc.

The other thing I'd say, which people have alluded to, is to do well this year. I often say that I loved law school first year and that I loved being at law school second and third year. I think doing well first year helps you do that.

[KevinNU7]

My advice, stay up with the reading and pay attention. I think basic intellegence will take care of the rest.

[Robbiero67]

Z, I know how you feel. I will be starting law school tommorrow. I'm a bit nervous/anxious, but overall I feel ready to start this new challenge. I have been relaxing and traveling all summer and did very little actual "preparation" for law school. Despite the fact that several classmates may have gotten somewhat of a head start on studying, I feel a lot better then I thought I would at this point and I believe its due to having a few months of relatively stress-free living. Anyways, just wanted to wish you good luck with everything.

[sachmo71]

study

[rkmsuf]

I thought you were pre-med?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by digamma

I'd echo what everyone else has said. The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is finding out more about your professors. If you know any second or third years, show them your schedule and let them tell you about who you have. For example, my torts professor had authored a book on no fault insurance. He taught the class normally, but it was known that his test was always one question that basically boiled down to "How do you feel about no fault insurance?" Most aren't to that extreme, but you can find out things like who cold calls in class, who calls on people according to the alphabetical roll, who counts class participation, etc.

Definitely agree with this. We had one guy who hated women and always chose a woman the first day of class to humiliate. And we had a couple of professors on the liberal side, one of whom taught property as a history of what the white man took from everyone else. Good times.

[mgadfly]

I actually think Albionmoonlight's #7 was the most important for me during my first year. Exercising regularly with a good group of friends keeps your mind and body healthy and helps prevent you from over-working/studying.

If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to answer them, but most everything has been said already. Here are a few suggestions:

1) Exercise regularly: Schedule time for it if you have to
2) Brief Cases: I hated this, but you should brief all your cases the first semester as it really helps you in learning how to get to the significant information quickly (which you will need later)
3) Don't be intimidated: I think I let the horror stories about law school get to me. How I handled it was by doing as little as possible, that way if I did poorly I had an excuse for it. I'd suggest going in with confidence as it isn't nearly as hard as people make it out to be.
4) Buy study aids: There were two classes during my second year that I never opened the actual text book because the profs taught straight from the study guide anyway. Don't do this for your first year, but understand that they are a good way to add to your own understanding of a case.
5) No internet during class: If your school allows a laptop and has a wireless network, don't bring your wireless card to school! You'll end up posting here during class instead of listening to what the prof has to say. Kind of along these same lines, don't sit in the back row or corner (I usually do, but it is a mistake). Sit right in front so that you are as close and engaged to the action as possible.

*** 6) First Year Grades: I put this one down here because I don't want to intimidate or frighten you any further because it is not warranted. If you show up at law school and realize that you are pretty good at it, you should understand that first year grades are absolutely vital to the process. They are the only grades that Law Review cares about (do Law Review if you get the opportunity); they are the only grades that summer employers are going to see when interviewing you for jobs between your 2nd and 3rd year (this process is early in the fall of your second year, so be ready for this); and they are half the credits that you will have taken when/if you apply for a judicial clerkship (do this if you get the opportunity as well).

I'm beginning my third year of law school, and here is a quick story of how things have gone that will hopefully give you an idea of what you should be doing now.

I'm the first person in my family to go to any sort of college beyond a technical field at a community college (both of my brothers dropped out of high school, so getting a degree at all was a big deal in my neighborhood). Somewhere during undergrad a professor convinced me to make political science my major. This same professor hooked me up with a great opportunity to study in D.C. for a semester as well as intern at the local public defender's office. After these experiences I decided that I wanted to go to law school. I entered that first year with the hopes of just making it through and was very intimidated by the process. I was fortunate that I did the early enroll program that allowed me to take one class prior to the fall that I began full time. This class turned out to be Contracts, and I did well even though I kept my expectations low because I was afraid of failure.

What I learned during that summer was that about 80% of the students at my law school are more incompetent than I am. And of the 20% more competent, half of them are total asses (probably because they spend so much time working themselves to death in the library). So I felt confident going into the fall semester. I was still unconvinced that I was going to be one of those competitive students that really focused on studying, so I kept coaching basketball as an assistant. My grades were pretty good (I received a CALI in one class, which means you were the top student) and I finished the semester pretty well, even though I spent only a fraction of the time in the library as some other people (you'll inevitably hear about people spending 14 hours a day in the library, I was on the other end of the spectrum, studying about an hour for each class-when and if I studied at all, which really isn't enough and leaves you more stressed than you should be).

Encouraged by my modest success during my first semester, I took the second semester more seriously. Basketball season was in full force so I didn't get to dedicate as much time as I would have liked, but I did work quite a bit harder than I had the first semester. I did okay, but I actually did worse the second semester, when studying more, than I had the first semester. I still did well enough that I qualified for the write-on competition for Law Review and decided to turn a note in even though I was confident that I was a long shot.

I was accepted to law review at the start of my second year. My expectations changed from just "making it through" to "getting a judicial clerkship." The problem is that I've already taken so many credits that it is almost impossible to really improve your class ranking/grades (which is a big deal to some employers). In order to compensate for my marginal grades I got on the Executive Board for Law Review and am an Article Editor (this isn't that big of a deal, but it also provides me with another $6,000 in scholarship money). I also began working my network to get to know as many judges as I could, and passed up a shot at a Summer Associate position in order to work for free for a Federal District Judge.

Now I'm starting my third year and instead of worrying about graduating and getting a job, I'm much more worried about what kind of job I'm going to get (which is a good feeling to have). I think my biggest mistake was expecting to fail from the beginning, and letting all the talk about how hard law school is get to me. It really isn't that hard, and after you get to know some of your classmates, you will be convinced that you can do it. I also did things that really worked against me (spent time online during lecture; sat in the back of the classroom; etc...).

One other comment I'd make: Remember that your fellow classmates might end up in a position to be helpful to you. (For example, the Judge that I work for asked me about two of my classmates that he is considering hiring for this next school year. I told him my honest opinion of the two of them, and the Judge ended up hiring the person I gave the most positive endorsement of) So don't be a dick just to be a dick. Networking begins with your classmates, and it really can be helpful down the road. It sounds like you might have a strong connection to your area since you went to undergrad there as well, so your reputation from law school will probably follow you into your professional life.

That's way too long. Sorry.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I too have been thinking about going to law school. And I have a question for all you lawerly types out there - how much of the legal education is geared towards the specialty you want to get in to? I want to focus on tax law, does that mean I have to pursue an LLM?

Edit - before Arlie has a heart attack thinking about more student loan debt, I want to stress I am THINKING about it. I haven't even taken the LSAT.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by mgadfly

5) No internet during class: If your school allows a laptop and has a wireless network, don't bring your wireless card to school! You'll end up posting here during class instead of listening to what the prof has to say. Kind of along these same lines, don't sit in the back row or corner (I usually do, but it is a mistake). Sit right in front so that you are as close and engaged to the action as possible.

Thank you for making me feel even older than the 33 I turned yesterday, you bastard. Internet? In class? What is that?!!

Originally Posted by mgadfly

*** 6) First Year Grades: I put this one down here because I don't want to intimidate or frighten you any further because it is not warranted. If you show up at law school and realize that you are pretty good at it, you should understand that first year grades are absolutely vital to the process. They are the only grades that Law Review cares about (do Law Review if you get the opportunity); they are the only grades that summer employers are going to see when interviewing you for jobs between your 2nd and 3rd year (this process is early in the fall of your second year, so be ready for this); and they are half the credits that you will have taken when/if you apply for a judicial clerkship (do this if you get the opportunity as well).

This is very true. I was remarkably consistent for the first 1.5 years of law school (allo f my grades were between 80 and 85), but that got me nowhere. I suddenly saw the light for the last half og my law school experience, pulling a number of A's, but by then, it was too late to get within sniffing distance of the best interviews, let alone jobs. It really sucks. Although, 8 (!) years later, things have worked out pretty well.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

I too have been thinking about going to law school. And I have a question for all you lawerly types out there - how much of the legal education is geared towards the specialty you want to get in to? I want to focus on tax law, does that mean I have to pursue an LLM?

Not much, really, but it's up to you to really shape which direction you take your education. You have about 1.5 years of mandatory classes, then the rest is electives, and you can get as specific as you want to and as your school can offer. And certainly, if you want to get into a specific area, the more education you have and further degrees you can achieve, the better, as with any area of business.

I found that the people who had gone to grad school for other things before going to law school, had a much easier time (combined with good grades, of course) of landing good jobs. I remember we had a guy with a master's in business who wanted to go into corporate law, and firms were falling all over him. Same with a medical doctor who decided that he wanted to switch careers. We also had a 50-something pilot who could have benefitted from his experience, but he ended up dropping out for personal reasons.

[Ksyrup]

The other thing that is helpful, and maybe someone mentioned this, is getting an intership where you can get some practical experience, because 99% of law school is theory and teaching you how to think like a lawyer. No one actually teaches you how to write a complaint, depose witnesses, handle a trial, etc., some of the most basic stuff you need to know. Getting the right clerking job can give you some of that experience, as well, but in school, internships or specialized classes that might teach some of this stuff (if even available) are worth taking.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Not much, really, but it's up to you to really shape which direction you take your education. You have about 1.5 years of mandatory classes, then the rest is electives, and you can get as specific as you want to and as your school can offer. And certainly, if you want to get into a specific area, the more education you have and further degrees you can achieve, the better, as with any area of business.

I found that the people who had gone to grad school for other things before going to law school, had a much easier time (combined with good grades, of course) of landing good jobs. I remember we had a guy with a master's in business who wanted to go into corporate law, and firms were falling all over him. Same with a medical doctor who decided that he wanted to switch careers. We also had a 50-something pilot who could have benefitted from his experience, but he ended up dropping out for personal reasons.

Thanks Ksyrup. I have an MTax already, and much the workload for that revolved around cases, so I have some experience with reading/briefing cases. I think that will really help me in law school.

And I recently argued a city sales tax case infront of a city arbitrator (we won ). It got me thinking about tax law as a serious career. I'll be interested to hear how y'all do throughout your first year. Good Luck!

[Ksyrup]

In all seriousness, you would be in a prime position to get a great job coming out of law school.

Just stay out of Florida. We have too many attorneys as it is.

[mgadfly]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

I too have been thinking about going to law school. And I have a question for all you lawerly types out there - how much of the legal education is geared towards the specialty you want to get in to? I want to focus on tax law, does that mean I have to pursue an LLM?

Edit - before Arlie has a heart attack thinking about more student loan debt, I want to stress I am THINKING about it. I haven't even taken the LSAT.

Depending on the school, tax is one of those areas that you can get into quite a bit more than others. A lot of law schools are more orientated to business/tax type of work than other areas of law (my school offers almost no additional classes about criminal defense or constitutional law, but has a ton of different optional tax courses). I've only taken Taxation of Individual Incomes (that's enough tax for me), but I have a friend who I met last year when he was beginning his first year of law school who has a background in tax. He plans on taking most of his electives in the tax/business type courses, has joined the "tax club" (not sure of the real name), and began working in the free clinic on cases exclusively related to tax (no one else wants them, so he gets to take on as many as he wants).

Additionally, it seems that there are a lot of postings around campus asking for students interested in tax to apply for positions at the local firms. So, although I agree with Ksyrup that generally there isn't much that you can do to really get into a specific area of law (outside getting an LLM), tax might be one of those areas where you can really focus a lot on related courses or work. That said, you would probably not want to as you still need to pass the bar when you are done with law school, which means you will want to be familiar with all the different areas that are tested (I haven't taken a prep course, so can't speak to how well they prepare you if you haven't taken a class on the subject previously).

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Thank you both Ksyrup and mgadfly. Some great info/advice. I have another question - how is the competition for jobs? Are there many jobs and not enough good candidates, or vice versa? Would you recommend chosing a law school in a big city so that finding a job would be easier? For those of us that have an established network, would working our networks be more beneficial (ie: contacting lawyers I've worked with in my tax career)? Does the network even matter for experienced candidates, is it all about the first year grades?

[mgadfly]

Networks matter a lot. I'm at a different university, but within the same city, and I'm able to draw off the reputation of both schools. I've had two interviews that were going horribly until they noticed my undergrad school. The conversations switched to how much they appreciated previous students from that school, and I ended up getting second interviews/and or the job. One of my college football coaches had a father in law that is a retired judge. He hooked me up with his father in law who made a few calls to some of his friends (who are judges currently) and they all agreed to meet and talk with me about clerking for them (each judicial clerkship, the job I'm currently applying for, has about 400 applicants per opening, so just getting to the interview stage/meeting the judge is a great advantage).

My impression is that there are currently more qualified candidates than openings in a lot of fields. However, everyone I've known has landed a job, it just hasn't been their "top choice." My point of view might not reflect the true nature of the job market because my friends tend to be those who I've worked with in Law Review/federal court, and they are usually pretty good students.

My experience is that those students who already have a specialty find work a lot easier. I'm very jealous of those students with degrees in science or medicine as they seem to have little trouble finding work. A lot of the older students (the average age at my law school is 27 and there is a large number of "older" students who already had successful careers in other fields) have connections that seem to really pay off for them. I'd imagine that with your experience/connections, that you would find work a lot easier than those students that went directly from undergrad to law school.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Thank you both Ksyrup and mgadfly. Some great info/advice. I have another question - how is the competition for jobs? Are there many jobs and not enough good candidates, or vice versa? Would you recommend chosing a law school in a big city so that finding a job would be easier? For those of us that have an established network, would working our networks be more beneficial (ie: contacting lawyers I've worked with in my tax career)? Does the network even matter for experienced candidates, is it all about the first year grades?

If you attend a law school outside of the top 20 or so, hiring will be largely regional, so you might want to think about where you want to practice in choosing a school. Most schools will have very helpful career services departments that can assist you in interviews for summer jobs (where most hiring for post law school jobs are done). That said, any connections you have are generally very helpful (or at the very least, couldn't hurt).

Also, tax is a great specialty to be in because not many people go to law school wanting to be tax lawyers. There is demand for tax lawyers, and there isn't the glut of tax lawyers coming out of law school there is as say with those aspiring to be general litigation attorneys.

[Z²+]

Thanks for all the insightful replies everyone! Very helpful information, exactly what I was hoping to read. It's good to hear that although the first year is difficult, it's still managable with a plan and some persistance.

During 3 of my 4 years as an undergraduate, I was an RA (Resident Assistant) on my floor. Our university has a policy of not allowing graduate students in professional fields (law, medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, etc) to live in the residence halls as an RA. I was fortunate enough to convince our department director to create a pilot program, letting me try the RA job while in law school. The advantages are many, including living directly across from the law building (compared to everyone else, who will live off campus at least 10-15 minutes away), free room & board (saving every few thousand dollars really helps), and I honestly think the responsibility will force me to manage my time well and focus on staying organized and focused. Disadvantages, of course, include having to deal with 30 (primarily) irresponsible undergraduate freshmen.

I hope I can follor the advice of many of you to actually schedule personal time to get away from studying. Steelers-Sundays are already blocked off of course, along with the entire Panther home football schedule. But making an effort to schedule exercise/recreation/free time seems like a very smart idea.

Thanks again everyone, and I'll probably send a few of you PM's later with more specific questions after work...

[Hawglaw]

Law school sucks.... That's my advice.


Actually, what I learned is that what works for a lot of other people did not work for me. Listen, you are old enough to know what works for you. Stick with that. I had so many people telling me what to do that my head spun. I did very well because I continued doing what worked for me in high school and in college. My best advice to you is to just relax and worry only about yourself. Don't give a shit what other people in your class are doing or what they say they are doing. Just believe in yourself and you own process.

With all of that being said, I will agree with one thing on here. First year grades are the key. They lead to the cushy clerk jobs and Law Review, which both lead to the cushy firm jobs. If you do well in your first year, you will have it made. Hell, I didn't even buy books my entire third year....that's how useless it is if you have done well up until that point.

[Ksyrup]

We had a guy who passed all of his classes in the second semester of his third year...while working in Miami. Showed up for the first day or two of classes, showed up for finals, showed up for graduation. He was what we all wanted to be, but didn't have the guts to attempt. Although I only went to my creditor's rights class 4 times and pulled A.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

We had a guy who passed all of his classes in the second semester of his third year...while working in Miami. Showed up for the first day or two of classes, showed up for finals, showed up for graduation. He was what we all wanted to be, but didn't have the guts to attempt. Although I only went to my creditor's rights class 4 times and pulled A.

He's like the guy in summer school that was in the bathroom the whole term.

[Easy Mac]

Is it worth it for me to work in a law office until I attempt to go to law school? I currently have a job as a file clerk in a law firm, and I just want to know if this is worth working for somewhat small pay. Should I just get a normal job, or do you think I'll gain valuable experience?

I pretty much have free reign over looking at whatever documents I want, but its a pretty tedious job, and its not like I'm researching or anything.

[Hawglaw]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Is it worth it for me to work in a law office until I attempt to go to law school? I currently have a job as a file clerk in a law firm, and I just want to know if this is worth working for somewhat small pay. Should I just get a normal job, or do you think I'll gain valuable experience?

I pretty much have free reign over looking at whatever documents I want, but its a pretty tedious job, and its not like I'm researching or anything.

Other than to make contacts, I can't see how it will really help you.

[ISiddiqui]

Well the only thing I can add to all this (which hasn't been said to death already) is DON'T GET BURNED OUT... don't go 110% all the time or else you will get burned out. I've seen it happen to other classmates. Have some fun once in a while, hang out with your classmates. Law school can definetly be an enjoyable experience if you let it. If you study 6 hours a day and outline your notes after every class (don't laugh, some people do it) you'll be grumpy and not wanting to do anymore after your 1st year.

That isn't to say to slack off. Study 3-4 hours a weeknight and make outlines of your notes every once in a while, but stop yourself before you go overboard.

[Ksyrup]

During the first year, a group of about 6 or 8 of us would get together on Friday and/or Saturday nights at someone's house and study/slack off. We'd discuss topics for awhile, eat pizza/cookout, etc., then maybe watch movies or go out to a bar later that night. I found that to be very helpful.

That first year I also found a good partner for putting together outlines of our common classes for exams. Very helpful. Not only did I get an outline for a few classes, but I also learned a bunch by discussing the topics as we drafted each one.