King Kaufman article regarding Quincy

Crapshoot · 08-06-2004, 10:49 AM

http://www.salon.com/news/sports/col...day/index.html

you might have to go through at 15 sec commercial to see it, but I think its worth it. Essentialy, its a good point about the NFL's interesting standards...

Maple Leafs · 08-06-2004, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aadik

http://www.salon.com/news/sports/col...day/index.html

you might have to go through at 15 sec commercial to see it, but I think its worth it. Essentialy, its a good point about the NFL's interesting standards...

King Kaufman, despite his obvious subconscious desire to be Bill Simmons, is one of the best sportswriters on the web today.

Crapshoot · 08-06-2004, 10:52 AM

I agree- I cant really think of too many I like more.

Huckleberry · 08-06-2004, 11:13 AM

Quote:

They spend all day making sure us writers don't look like idiots, and if they catch 100 misteaks and miss one, readers right in saying, "Don't you people have copy editors?!" Why yes, and their almost always better writers than the writers they clean up after everyday. Imagine the mess if they stopped working for even one paragraph!

Funny.

Franklinnoble · 08-06-2004, 11:57 AM

You know, when I post stories from other sites, I just cut and paste the whole damned thing here, just so my pals here at FOFC don't have to surf elsewhere, register, watch commercials, etc....

Just something to think about...

duckman · 08-06-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

You know, when I post stories from other sites, I just cut and paste the whole damned thing here, just so my pals here at FOFC don't have to surf elsewhere, register, watch commercials, etc....

Just something to think about...

Yeah!

Kodos · 08-06-2004, 12:36 PM

Fight the power!!!

cthomer5000 · 08-06-2004, 12:45 PM

I'm going to protest by not reading the article until someone posts it here.

Cap Ologist · 08-06-2004, 01:10 PM

hxxp://www.salon.com/news/sports/col/kaufman/2004/08/05/thursday/index.html

King Kaufman's Sports Daily
The sacking of Quincy Carter: It makes sense, but it's deeply strange. Plus: Big Ten football will try instant replay. And: A great read -- about cycling!

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Aug. 5, 2004 | Even though the Dallas Cowboys firing quarterback Quincy Carter was somewhat logical given the team's needs, it still has me shaking my head.

A number of press reports, citing sources close to the team, say that Carter failed a second drug test. Carter denied to the Dallas Morning News that he'd tested positive for cocaine, as FoxSports.com had reported, but he didn't deny the many reports that he'd tested positive for marijuana.

A second positive means a fine of four game checks under the NFL's substance abuse program. A third would mean a four-game suspension. Carter had a nice year last year but he's nobody's Hall of Famer, so going into the season with a just-pretty-good quarterback who's one tainted micturition away from missing a quarter of the schedule isn't a bad thing to want to avoid.

The Cowboys also said they were displeased with Carter's attitude and on-field progress this summer, and they do have ancient Vinnie Testaverde to keep the chair warm while they try to figure out whether Drew Henson and Tony Romo, a pair of young quarterbacks they like, will be a viable option, though make no mistake, Carter wasn't cut because of his performance.

Why the NFL should care whether its players smoke weed in their down time is a legitimate topic for debate, but the league has its P.R. needs and marijuana is illegal, after all. And it's not like Quincy Carter or any other NFL player doesn't know that if you smoke marijuana and get caught, you're putting first your paycheck and then your career in jeopardy. If he did toke up, he wouldn't have to look far to place the blame for his newfound unemployment.

So what has me shaking my head? A year ago this month, Bill Romanowski of the Raiders attacked teammate Marcus Williams in practice, ripping his helmet off and punching him in the face, causing injuries that cost Williams the entire season. Romanowski's punishment? He was suspended from practice for one day, which is a little like being punished by being sent home from jury duty, only way nicer.

In Rams camp right now is defensive end Leonard Little, awaiting trial on charges of persistent drunk driving after his arrest in April. Little pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter six years ago after an alcohol-related accident that killed a woman. He was suspended for half a season then, but kept his job, as he's kept his job following his arrest this spring. Sure, he hasn't been convicted of anything this time -- but neither has Quincy Carter.

Even though every step along the way is sort of logical, it still leaves me shaking my head that you can attack a teammate or be a lethal public menace on the roads and still keep your job in the NFL, but light up a couple of J's after practice and you're on the street.

yabanci · 08-06-2004, 03:09 PM

he makes some good points.

Buccaneer · 08-06-2004, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap Ologist

The Cowboys also said they were displeased with Carter's attitude and on-field progress this summer,

To me, that is grounds enough for firing, even without the alleged drug stuff. Maybe he's just wants to be in the NBA instead.

NoMyths · 08-06-2004, 06:59 PM

However, he's missing an important point: Bill Parcells is the Cowboys coach. You don't screw around on Parcells' team.

GrantDawg · 08-06-2004, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMyths

However, he's missing an important point: Bill Parcells is the Cowboys coach. You don't screw around on Parcells' team.

Unless your LT. Then you can snort your weight in coke.

Samdari · 08-06-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Unless your LT. Then you can snort your weight in coke.

There are several huge differences in the situations

1. LT was good.

2. LT's drug use never put him at risk of being suspended.

3. Bill Parcells was actually in charge of cutting people from the Giants, not just pretending to be.

Buccaneer · 08-06-2004, 08:17 PM

Samdari, nice of you to defend a stupid, unapologetic coke-head like that. What's next? Letting everyone out of jail because at one time they earned a merit badge or perhaps we should do away with rules and laws based on morals because it's all about not getting caught?

Leonidas · 08-06-2004, 09:00 PM

From what I understand the CBA says players cannot get cut for breaking league drug policy. Only punishment allowed is punishment the league hands out. While I disagree with that policy, I do think the union will fight this tooth and nail, and at the very least Carter will get a nice settlement out of it.

clintl · 08-06-2004, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Samdari, nice of you to defend a stupid, unapologetic coke-head like that. What's next? Letting everyone out of jail because at one time they earned a merit badge or perhaps we should do away with rules and laws based on morals because it's all about not getting caught?

Maybe I'm wrong, but they way I read Samdari's post was as an interpretation of Parcell's thinking about the two situations, not as what Samdari thinks was right.

Buccaneer · 08-06-2004, 09:34 PM

If so, then I apologize.

Samdari · 08-06-2004, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintl

Maybe I'm wrong, but they way I read Samdari's post was as an interpretation of Parcell's thinking about the two situations, not as what Samdari thinks was right.

Yah - I meant to offer no opinion, except possibly that LT was a better player than Carter.

Buccaneer · 08-06-2004, 09:48 PM

I saw that, Samdari. Lol. My overreaction was needless, even if I have strong dislike for LT that caused my knee to jerk.

Without regards to anything specific about this case, I am again reminded of why some segments of our sports fandom are becoming more disillusioned with sports and their players. If MLB can accept rewarding past and current drug abusers, NFL and their union can accept the same thing very openly, the NHL can accept deadly assaults as part of the game, (we don't talk about the NBA), we does it mean as a society and for those wanting to be like those players (and wanting to join their leagues)? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Vinatieri for Prez · 08-07-2004, 01:32 AM

The answer is obvious. If you a great (or at least solid) player, you get a pass. If you're not, you don't. I am not saying I like it, but it's the truth. If Peyton Manning flunked a test for heroine, coke, and mj, he would still have his spot waiting for him after his suspension, plain and simple.

Carter simply wasn't good enough for the hassle.

thesloppy · 08-07-2004, 01:51 AM

Maybe it's the conspiracy theorist in me, but even the possiblity of a failed drug test, and the resultant suspension, doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would bring about this kind of immediate response from America's Barbershop. I know that this is Parcell's ship now, and he does things a little differently then previous Dallas coaches, but the abruptness of the whole thing still smells like something more than a failed piss test.

Anybody remember the year that HBO filmed their Hard Knocks series at the Cowboys' training camp? Jerry Jones was obviously smitten with Quincy, as evidenced by a surreal board room scene, where Jones prattled on and on about the similarities between Carter and himself. "Quincy is a Libra...I'm a Libra". Parcells even had good things to say about Quincy recently, and it appeared things were all set for him to take the reigns again this year...and then *boom* he's gone no explanation.

Of course, the flip side to the wild speculations that keep popping into my head is that if the Cowboys or Carter were trying to keep something secret, creating this kind of Scooby Doo mystery probably isn't the best way to go about it. It's too bad that we'll probably never get 100% of the true story, and even if we did I wouldn't believe it, because I'd be too busy imagining scenes involving Quincy and Proffessor Plum, with the lead pipe, in the conservatory.

CraigSca · 08-07-2004, 06:09 AM

It just saddens me that Jack Klugman felt he had to turn to cocaine in the first place.

08-06-2004, 09:00 PM	#16
Leonidas College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: East Anglia	From what I understand the CBA says players cannot get cut for breaking league drug policy. Only punishment allowed is punishment the league hands out. While I disagree with that policy, I do think the union will fight this tooth and nail, and at the very least Carter will get a nice settlement out of it. __________________ Molon labe

08-07-2004, 01:32 AM	#21
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	The answer is obvious. If you a great (or at least solid) player, you get a pass. If you're not, you don't. I am not saying I like it, but it's the truth. If Peyton Manning flunked a test for heroine, coke, and mj, he would still have his spot waiting for him after his suspension, plain and simple. Carter simply wasn't good enough for the hassle. Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 08-07-2004 at 01:32 AM.

08-06-2004, 10:52 AM	#3
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	I agree- I cant really think of too many I like more.

08-06-2004, 11:57 AM	#5
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	You know, when I post stories from other sites, I just cut and paste the whole damned thing here, just so my pals here at FOFC don't have to surf elsewhere, register, watch commercials, etc.... Just something to think about...

08-06-2004, 12:36 PM	#7
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Fight the power!!!

08-06-2004, 01:10 PM	#9
Cap Ologist College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Flower Mound, TX	hxxp://www.salon.com/news/sports/col/kaufman/2004/08/05/thursday/index.html King Kaufman's Sports Daily The sacking of Quincy Carter: It makes sense, but it's deeply strange. Plus: Big Ten football will try instant replay. And: A great read -- about cycling! - - - - - - - - - - - - Aug. 5, 2004 \| Even though the Dallas Cowboys firing quarterback Quincy Carter was somewhat logical given the team's needs, it still has me shaking my head. A number of press reports, citing sources close to the team, say that Carter failed a second drug test. Carter denied to the Dallas Morning News that he'd tested positive for cocaine, as FoxSports.com had reported, but he didn't deny the many reports that he'd tested positive for marijuana. A second positive means a fine of four game checks under the NFL's substance abuse program. A third would mean a four-game suspension. Carter had a nice year last year but he's nobody's Hall of Famer, so going into the season with a just-pretty-good quarterback who's one tainted micturition away from missing a quarter of the schedule isn't a bad thing to want to avoid. The Cowboys also said they were displeased with Carter's attitude and on-field progress this summer, and they do have ancient Vinnie Testaverde to keep the chair warm while they try to figure out whether Drew Henson and Tony Romo, a pair of young quarterbacks they like, will be a viable option, though make no mistake, Carter wasn't cut because of his performance. Why the NFL should care whether its players smoke weed in their down time is a legitimate topic for debate, but the league has its P.R. needs and marijuana is illegal, after all. And it's not like Quincy Carter or any other NFL player doesn't know that if you smoke marijuana and get caught, you're putting first your paycheck and then your career in jeopardy. If he did toke up, he wouldn't have to look far to place the blame for his newfound unemployment. So what has me shaking my head? A year ago this month, Bill Romanowski of the Raiders attacked teammate Marcus Williams in practice, ripping his helmet off and punching him in the face, causing injuries that cost Williams the entire season. Romanowski's punishment? He was suspended from practice for one day, which is a little like being punished by being sent home from jury duty, only way nicer. In Rams camp right now is defensive end Leonard Little, awaiting trial on charges of persistent drunk driving after his arrest in April. Little pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter six years ago after an alcohol-related accident that killed a woman. He was suspended for half a season then, but kept his job, as he's kept his job following his arrest this spring. Sure, he hasn't been convicted of anything this time -- but neither has Quincy Carter. Even though every step along the way is sort of logical, it still leaves me shaking my head that you can attack a teammate or be a lethal public menace on the roads and still keep your job in the NFL, but light up a couple of J's after practice and you're on the street.

08-06-2004, 03:09 PM	#10
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	he makes some good points.

08-06-2004, 06:59 PM	#12
NoMyths Poet in Residence Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Charleston, SC	However, he's missing an important point: Bill Parcells is the Cowboys coach. You don't screw around on Parcells' team.

08-06-2004, 08:17 PM	#15
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Samdari, nice of you to defend a stupid, unapologetic coke-head like that. What's next? Letting everyone out of jail because at one time they earned a merit badge or perhaps we should do away with rules and laws based on morals because it's all about not getting caught?

08-06-2004, 09:34 PM	#18
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	If so, then I apologize.

08-06-2004, 09:48 PM	#20
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I saw that, Samdari. Lol. My overreaction was needless, even if I have strong dislike for LT that caused my knee to jerk. Without regards to anything specific about this case, I am again reminded of why some segments of our sports fandom are becoming more disillusioned with sports and their players. If MLB can accept rewarding past and current drug abusers, NFL and their union can accept the same thing very openly, the NHL can accept deadly assaults as part of the game, (we don't talk about the NBA), we does it mean as a society and for those wanting to be like those players (and wanting to join their leagues)? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

08-07-2004, 01:51 AM	#22
thesloppy Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: PDX	Maybe it's the conspiracy theorist in me, but even the possiblity of a failed drug test, and the resultant suspension, doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would bring about this kind of immediate response from America's Barbershop. I know that this is Parcell's ship now, and he does things a little differently then previous Dallas coaches, but the abruptness of the whole thing still smells like something more than a failed piss test. Anybody remember the year that HBO filmed their Hard Knocks series at the Cowboys' training camp? Jerry Jones was obviously smitten with Quincy, as evidenced by a surreal board room scene, where Jones prattled on and on about the similarities between Carter and himself. "Quincy is a Libra...I'm a Libra". Parcells even had good things to say about Quincy recently, and it appeared things were all set for him to take the reigns again this year...and then boom he's gone no explanation. Of course, the flip side to the wild speculations that keep popping into my head is that if the Cowboys or Carter were trying to keep something secret, creating this kind of Scooby Doo mystery probably isn't the best way to go about it. It's too bad that we'll probably never get 100% of the true story, and even if we did I wouldn't believe it, because I'd be too busy imagining scenes involving Quincy and Proffessor Plum, with the lead pipe, in the conservatory.

08-07-2004, 06:09 AM	#23
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	It just saddens me that Jack Klugman felt he had to turn to cocaine in the first place.

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