I hate Frank MacCourt

[MrBug708]

And probable Depodesta. Dodgers trade LoDuca, Encarnation, and Mota for Brad Penny, Heep-See Choi, and a Double A pitcher.

We trade the second most popular Dodgers, a 23 year old future closers, and a starting OF for a pitcher who wasn't even the Fins 2 best pitchers, a first basemen whose not bad and a minor leaguer.

Fine, so you don't want to trade LoDuca, whatever, but trading Mota? We didn't trade Mota for Beltran and he's better then anyone in this deal....

[MrBug708]

This is also the same owner who owes the IRS some 30 million dollars in back taxes on a vacation Home.

[SackAttack]

I'm going to give DePodesta the benefit of the doubt on this move until season's end, if only because it's his first major move as GM.

I fucking hate losing LoDuca. I think, from a chemistry perspective, that's the worst thing the Dodgers could have done, and moving Mota is going to seriously hurt the bullpen.

At first blush, I hate this trade, but if the Dodgers win the NL pennant and/or World Series...then I won't be quite so upset in six months.

[MrBug708]

If Penny nails Bonds in his first game vs the Giants, I won't be so sad

[JonInMiddleGA]

I had to go look at ESPN to see this one for myself, it sounded so asinine that I really thought you might be joking, or passing along a rumor or something like that.

Their take, FWIW, says this might be a domino move that sets them up to get Randy Johnson and/or Steve Finley. They don't explain that any further, but I'm guessing the suggestion would be the package of players from Florida to Arizona. At that point, it becomes LoDuca, Encarnacion & Mota for Unit/Finley and Charles Johnson (who they say the Dodgers got from the Rockies late this afternoon).

Well, I still don't think I'd have made the deal, but it doesn't sound quite as ridiculous as the straight LA-Fla trade.

[cschex]

Well, they've traded for Charles Johnson to replace Lo Duca. A net downgrade, but not too much of one, plus Lo Duca is an FA after this year. The key is obviously getting rid of Encarnacion, who has been putrid this year.
Brad Penny certainly was either the Marlins #1 or #1A pitcher, depending on how you rate Pavano, and Choi is having a very nice season. This weakens the bullpen, but overall the Dodgers by far got the better end of this deal.

[Philliesfan980]

When Penny's on, he can be very very good.

Oh wait, I'm a Phillies fan and he only pitches lights out against us.

Not a bad trade, although its surprising on the Marlins end. They're getting back into the divisional race and I think trading one of your better starting pitchers is a good way to get out of it quickly.

[SackAttack]

Jon, that's partly why I'm reserving judgment. I think getting rid of LoDuca was a terrible move, and getting Charles Johnson again? Shades of 1996, doncha think? "Hey, let's trade our popular catcher and bring Charles Johnson in to catch."

We'll see what we're left with after the dust settles, but for a team that's won 18 of their last 23, or something insane like that, moving a team leader like LoDuca and one of the best arms in our bullpen for Penny and Choi looks terrible on the surface.

[MrBug708]

*sigh*

Anyway to get cheaper, eh Frank?

[Danny]

MrBug, come on. I like Loduca as well, but from a talent stand point this is a great move by the Dodgers. Loduca is a 32 year old catcher who is known to have bad second halves. Encarnacion sucks, bad. Mota is a great setup man, but he's still someone who will only give you 90 innings in a season. Penny is a very talented 26 year old starter with an ERA close to 3. Hee Seop Choi is a talented young 1B who has a higher OBP than anybody currently on the Dodgers and that prospect (who is a very good one) will likely be used in another deal.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by cschex

Well, they've traded for Charles Johnson to replace Lo Duca. A net downgrade, but not too much of one, plus Lo Duca is an FA after this year. The key is obviously getting rid of Encarnacion, who has been putrid this year.
Brad Penny certainly was either the Marlins #1 or #1A pitcher, depending on how you rate Pavano, and Choi is having a very nice season. This weakens the bullpen, but overall the Dodgers by far got the better end of this deal.

I'm not buying it. As a situational hitter, LoDuca ranked among the best we had. He's not a power guy, but he hits very well with men in scoring position, he doesn't strike out, and he's an excellent defensive catcher.

We ditch Encarnacion, which makes me happy, but we move Green (who hasn't been much better) out to right field, and Choi plays first. I don't see an upgrade to the offense here.

HOLY SHIT.

AM 1150 out here is reporting that LA is trying to send CJ to the Marlins instead of LoDuca.

Ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease

[cschex]

Whatever your feelings on this trade for the Dodgers, be glad you're not a Mets fan right now. They apparently traded Scott Kazmir, theit top pitching prospect and one of the best in the game, for Victor Zambrano.

[Philliesfan980]

Penny is a poor man's Jason Schmidt. Nice big game pitcher. I love the trade. Anything to get Choi (very solid) and Penny out of my division is great.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I'm not buying it. As a situational hitter, LoDuca ranked among the best we had. He's not a power guy, but he hits very well with men in scoring position, he doesn't strike out, and he's an excellent defensive catcher.

We ditch Encarnacion, which makes me happy, but we move Green (who hasn't been much better) out to right field, and Choi plays first. I don't see an upgrade to the offense here.

HOLY SHIT.

AM 1150 out here is reporting that LA is trying to send CJ to the Marlins instead of LoDuca.

Ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease

Choi is better than Green at this stage of his career.

[SackAttack]

But we're not replacing Green. He's simply shifting out to right field. We're losing a very good offensive catcher, if AM 1150 is wrong about CJ going instead of LoDuca, and we're getting Choi in place of Encarnacion, basically. CJ is declining defensively, hasn't been much offensively in a while, and we've impacted our bullpen.

Choi better than Green? Perhaps. But is our offense better for it overall? Not a chance.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

And probable Depodesta. Dodgers trade LoDuca, Encarnation, and Mota for Brad Penny, Heep-See Choi, and a Double A pitcher.

We trade the second most popular Dodgers, a 23 year old future closers, and a starting OF for a pitcher who wasn't even the Fins 2 best pitchers, a first basemen whose not bad and a minor leaguer.

Who is the 23 year-old future closer?

[Danny]

Probably the 31 year old Mota

[cschex]

Which is 3 years older than Gagne. I have a hunch they're going to hang onto Gagne for a while as well.

[Arles]

Consolidated threads here. Here's the ESPN story, it appears it's a done deal:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1849414

The double A pitcher (Bill Murphy) is one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. As much as I like LoDuca and Mota, getting Penny, Choi and a top pitching prospect is a nice move.

Here's hoping Arizona can get Murphy, Penny, Werth and maybe a catching prospect from LA for Johnson and Finley.

[Danny]

Id love to get Johnson, but if there is a way I would much rather keep Penny to go along with RJ in the rotation.

[SackAttack]

I don't know that LA's going to move either of their catching prospects, Arles. With LoDuca gone, CJ is a short-term option at best, which suggests that either Koyie Hill or David Ross will be the starting catcher next season.

[Danny]

Ross is 27 and not much of a prospect. I dont see Arizona really wanting him.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by EagleEye11

Id love to get Johnson, but if there is a way I would much rather keep Penny to go along with RJ in the rotation.

I feel the same way. Brad Penny is a good pitcher with the potential to be great. He's only 26 years old, and could pitch for a long time in LA (RJ probably has maybe 2 years left if they even keep him). But those two together, along with the Odalis Perez and Kaz Ishii is pretty formidable. Now if the Dodgers could just get rid of Nomo.......

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by EagleEye11

Ross is 27 and not much of a prospect. I dont see Arizona really wanting him.

LoDuca was the same way when he finally broke in with the Dodgers. He got stuck for years behind Angel "Fatass" Pena and Mike Piazza, but blossomed in 2001. Was never much of a power guy despite his 25 HR year (and the 10 or so he's got this year), but he was routinely our most reliable hitter. I look for good things from Ross, 27 or not.

That isn't the point, though; the point is that the Dodgers at this point don't have much in the way of young catching that they're likely to spin off for RJ. If LoDuca is FA after this season, hopefully LA brings him back.

[Danny]

UPDATE- Encarnacion and Mota received word that they have been traded and are not with the Dodgers in San Diego. Loduca is with the Dodgers and has not been imformed he has been traded YET. Stay tuned.

[SackAttack]

ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease

[Arles]

Maybe they're saving LoDuca for Arizona, to go along with Werth and Penny for Johnson and Finley

[cschex]

If the Dodgers can convince the Fish to take Johnson instead of Lo Duca this will be the most lopsided trade in the past few years.

[Danny]

Now I guess 1150 said he was just notifed of the trade. Maybe they failed in attemps to get another catcher to go to Florida instead.

[SackAttack]

*cries*

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by cschex

Which is 3 years older than Gagne. I have a hunch they're going to hang onto Gagne for a while as well.

Exactly. This was prob. a move to free up a tad of salary to keep Gagne.

[Arles]

Gammons just came on and said a source close to Johnson said he would probably agree to a trade to LA. That deal would probably include Penny, Werth and possible two more prospects for Johnson.

He also said it may be up to Finley to decide whether he goes to SD or LA. Both teams appear to be offering two nice prospects for Finley and Arizona is inclined to take either deal (although they are a little wary of trading him to SD as they will probably lose the ability to resign him).

Should be an interesting night with Johnson slated to start in a few hours in Colorado.

[Chief Rum]

My brother is a huge Dodgers fan, and I just had to be the guy to break the news to him.

He was not happy. LoDuca is his favorite player. His wife's too. He even threatened to become an Angels fan. I told him he would think better when he calmed down.

I really feel for Dodgers fans. Even if they end up with Randy Johnson.

CR

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Arles

Gammons just came on and said a source close to Johnson said he would probably agree to a trade to LA. That deal would probably include Penny, Werth and possible two more prospects for Johnson.

He also said it may be up to Finley to decide whether he goes to SD or LA. Both teams appear to be offering two nice prospects for Finley and Arizona is inclined to take either deal (although they are a little wary of trading him to SD as they will probably lose the ability to resign him).

Should be an interesting night with Johnson slated to start in a few hours in Colorado.

Werth isn't getting PT here anyways, so I don't mind...but I'd hate to lose Penny. Johnson is prob. done after this year.

[pennywisesb]

CR, whatever you do, DO NOT let him become an Angels fan. That's just gonna cause him more heartbreak this year when the A's win the West.

[SunDevil]

Nothing like trading your good players away to your division rival, if the trade with LA and AZ go down.

[Arles]

Another interesting comment on Phoenix radio. A source close to Randy said that he is considering the Dodgers because it would allow him to vie for the Cy Young still. He figures to get another 11-12 starts. And, with Gagne, he thinks he can win 8-9 which puts him at 19 wins and maybe gets the Cy Young.

[cschex]

Wait, I though Johnson only wanted to go to the Yankees because he wanted a "real World Series contender." Now he just wants another Cy Young. Thats a great atitude. What total BS.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Nothing like trading your good players away to your division rival, if the trade with LA and AZ go down.

I would guess the fact that Arizona is currently 27.5 games behind the Dodgers makes this a little moot with Finley (since he's a FA). For Johnson, Arizona would only face him 3-4 times next year max.

I think if LA or San Diego offers a good deal you take it - esp for two 40-year old guys.

[Franklinnoble]

Sheesh... Johnson already has a ring and a Cy Young... what's the point?

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

If Penny nails Bonds in his first game vs the Giants, I won't be so sad

[Buccaneer]

The Pads message board and I are just sitting back watching the fireworks around us. As of right now, it appears the Duds have degraded themselves (esp with Mota and Loduca gone). Finley will be an upgrade for Payton in the OF so we're seeing what happens but if nothing does, the Pads are still in good shape as they are.

[Ksyrup]

I think the Marlins gave up too much. LoDuca is OK, but nothing special (although a huge upgrade over NOTHING!), but giving up Choi (who's on first, Conine?!), Penny, and a good prospect for Mota (they don't need a closer, so he'll play the same role) and Encarnacion, a guy the Dodgers gave a relatively big contract to when he could have been signed for much less (and has played like it)? I don't like this deal for Florida at ALL.

[Arles]

I don't know, I kind of liked the deal for both teams. Florida already has Pavano and Willis as nice starters, plus Beckett is coming off the DL on Monday and should take up where Penny left off. Their top three holes were catcher, middle relief and a third OF. So, by getting LoDuca, Mota and Encarnacion they filled all their holes. And, if you consider Beckett for Penny a fair swap, all they really lost was Choi.

For the Dodgers, they get a nice starter in Penny and someone with some pop at first in Choi. They also picked up Johnson to fill the catcher hole.

I think both teams improved themselves with this deal.

[Ksyrup]

Encarnacion sucks, and Pavano is a free agent after the season. With Penny, at least they could have kept him for another year, albeit an arbitration year. I don't think they have a shot at keeping Pavano.

[SunDevil]

I can not imagine the Marlins have much depth at first base. They have now traded two of them in the last two years. First Derek Lee to the Cubs, now Choi to LA.

[Vaj]

Leave it to Dodger fans to bitch and moan when their team fleeces another...

[SackAttack]

didn't they wait until the offseason to offload Lee?

[JonInMiddleGA]

At first base, for the Marlins ... Damian Easley

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

At first base, for the Marlins ... Damian Easley

He's still being paid by the Tigers to NOT play, isn't he?