Democratic National Convention

[GrantDawg]

So far from what I've watched:

If Al Gore was as comfortable looking in speeches 4 years ago as he looked tonight, then he would be running for re-election right now. The kiss at the end was priceless.

Jimmy Carter was disappointing. I would have never thought he would be as strongly partisian as it was. I respect him normally, but several things he has done in the last year has been more and more politically dividing than he has in the past.

[Cringer]

Any arrests of "domestic terrorists"(protesters) yet?

[amdaily]

I'm watching the Eisenhower convention on CSPAN2. Much more interesting.

[Dutch]

I was watching that too.....and thinking, "Poor old Ike would have been decimated in todays world."

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I was watching that too.....and thinking, "Poor old Ike would have been decimated in todays world."

Isn't the the truth! John Kerry and the press would have turned him into a cowardly traitor, questioned his patriotism, and said he was soft on defense .

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sooner or later, this guy just has to show up to complete the scene.

[Dutch]

Oh he's there, and he's saying, "See, there are no terrorists in Iraq. Look around you! There is nothing but peaceful women and children. No terrorists. The right-wing Americans come to my peaceful country and use their smart bombs to kill old ladies and mullah's."

And Al Gore would be right there, "Tell it from your heart, brother!"

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by amdaily

Isn't the the truth! John Kerry and the press would have turned him into a cowardly traitor, questioned his patriotism, and said he was soft on defense .

Considering the losses we took at Normandy (even though we ultimately won the battle), today's Democrats would have had a field day with Ike.

Democratic Member of the "Normandy Commission." -- Was taking those beaches in Normandy worth the lives of 30,000 of our young American men, was it worth the lives of 11,000 of our British allies? Can you look into the eyes of any of those lost soldiers' mothers or fathers and say to them, 'your son gave his life for a narrow strip of sand on the coast of France?'

Imagine the movie Michael Moore could have made...oh wait, Speilberg already made it.

[Crapshoot]

it scares me that I'm defending John Kerry, but which of the two candidates for president actually went to Vietnam and earned a purple heart, and which one took an exemption to the national guard and stayed home ?

[JPhillips]

Grant: I agree about Gore. Both he and Dole would have been served much better by being themselves than trying to be what they thought America wanted. Those two should be an object lesson for every national politician.

I was also disappointed in Carter, but my problem was delivery. Man his speech was dull. I really respect Carter as a man, but please don't ever let him give a speech again.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Aadik

it scares me that I'm defending John Kerry, but which of the two candidates for president actually went to Vietnam and earned a purple heart, and which one took an exemption to the national guard and stayed home ?

The things that bother me are what he (Kerry) did when he returned home. Not to mention his Senate Voting record in relation to National defense.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Grant: I agree about Gore. Both he and Dole would have been served much better by being themselves than trying to be what they thought America wanted. Those two should be an object lesson for every national politician.

Hanging out in those Black Churches has done him some good, then!

[GrantDawg]

Can we a see a theme tonight?

[GrantDawg]

dola: Bill is still a good speaker. Even better when he is brief. Hillary has learned from him, but is still nowhere near his level.

[Draft Dodger]

people who watch this stuff frighten me.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

people who watch this stuff frighten me.

Boo! It is not like anything else is on.

[JeeberD]

I'm watching Three's Company reruns...

[Dutch]

Yes, the Democratic National Convention is pre-empting my favorite PBS show, "W: A purely academic and analytical diagnosis of everything that fucking cowboy's fucked up in our evil capitalistic society".

[JeffNights]

Bill Clinton is the shit.
He is just too damned good.

you think they will let me write him in?

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I'm watching Three's Company reruns...

Good man!!! Jack Tripper, now there's a real American hero.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Yes, the Democratic National Convention is pre-empting my favorite PBS show, "W: A purely academic and analytical diagnosis of everything that fucking cowboy's fucked up in our evil capitalistic society".

funniest thing I've read tonight.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Bill Clinton is the shit.
He is just too damned good.

you think they will let me write him in?

please do!

[Dutch]

I'm overdosing on politics tonight. I'll take a break.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

The things that bother me are what he (Kerry) did when he returned home. Not to mention his Senate Voting record in relation to National defense.

SFL, isn't it eminently reasonable to disagree with a war that you actually went and fought in- surely it offers him a perspective that a politician in DC couldnt have. Do you mind expounding on that (seriously )..

[Arles]

Anyone see the "prison" that the protesters in Boston were put in? Sheesh, if that happens to the wacko lefty groups in New York we'll see nothing but outcries for weeks.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Aadik

SFL, isn't it eminently reasonable to disagree with a war that you actually went and fought in- surely it offers him a perspective that a politician in DC couldnt have. Do you mind expounding on that (seriously )..

The one problem I have with what Kerry did is he used all this over-the-top rhetoric on the rapings, beatings, bombings and sheer abuse that he "witnessed" other soliders doing to get him on the national stage and help him enter the political arena. Then, 20 years later, when he gets called on that rhetoric by some papers he backs off saying that not only was his wording "excessive", but that he couldn't even recall half of the attrocities he accussed these soliders of committing.

That seems pretty gutless to me and I'm sure him taking those words back in 2002 really is a nice consolation to all those veterans that got spit on and chastised back in the 70s in part because of what Kerry testified he "saw".

[SFL Cat]

Any of the Democratic delegates wearing this new planned parenthood t-shirt?

hxxp://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:store.yahoo.com/ppfastore/ihadabt.html

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by Arles

The one problem I have with what Kerry did is he used all this over-the-top rhetoric on the rapings, beatings, bombings and sheer abuse that he "witnessed" other soliders doing to get him on the national stage and help him enter the political arena. Then, 20 years later, when he gets called on that rhetoric by some papers he backs off saying that not only was his wording "excessive", but that he couldn't even recall half of the attrocities he accussed these soliders of committing.

That seems pretty gutless to me and I'm sure him taking those words back in 2002 really is a nice consolation to all those veterans that got spit on and chastised back in the 70s in part because of what Kerry testified he "saw".

What seems gutless to me is attacking a guy who served his country when he didnt have to.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Arles

Anyone see the "prison" that the protesters in Boston were put in? Sheesh, if that happens to the wacko lefty groups in New York we'll see nothing but outcries for weeks.

THey keep bitching here- trust me. Hell,I hate the DNC- my commute got 20 min longer..

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

people who watch this stuff frighten me.

I'm with you. These things make the Grammy's, Academy Awards, Oscars, etc., look less like the self-serving, glad-handing, pat-each-other-on-the-back kool-aid fests they actually are by comparison.

I've had a solid night of watching baseball, since there's nothing on for the wife to watch, either.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Aadik

SFL, isn't it eminently reasonable to disagree with a war that you actually went and fought in- surely it offers him a perspective that a politician in DC couldnt have. Do you mind expounding on that (seriously )..

I'll just give you some links to check out.

hxxp://www.townhall.com/columnists/garyaldrich/ga20040225.shtml
hxxp://www.postwritersgroup.com/archives/nava0210.htm
hxxp://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/kerry_war_record_040213-1.html
hxxp://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/25/hughes.kerry.vietnam/

hxxp://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm
hxxp://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/4/134258.shtml

[duckman]

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Bill Clinton is God!
He is just too damned cute!

Do you think they will let me suck on his nuts?!

[GrantDawg]

I'm always amazed at the promises that just cannot be kept. So far tonight we have heard a call for increased defense spending (from Hillary no less), a national healthcare plan, a "true" medicare drug plan, and the end of deficit spending. How exactly are they planning to do all that? Rolling back just the wealthy end of the Bush tax cut will not do all of that.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm always amazed at the promises that just cannot be kept. So far tonight we have heard a call for increased defense spending (from Hillary no less), a national healthcare plan, a "true" medicare drug plan, and the end of deficit spending. How exactly are they planning to do all that? Rolling back just the wealthy end of the Bush tax cut will not do all of that.

Both parties are guilty of this...Christmas in the dog days of summer! Just put it on the Charge Card!

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

What seems gutless to me is attacking a guy who served his country when he didnt have to.

So then you have no problem with Kerry doing the following?

The one problem I have with what Kerry did is he used all this over-the-top rhetoric on the rapings, beatings, bombings and sheer abuse that he "witnessed" other soliders doing to get him on the national stage and help him enter the political arena. Then, 20 years later, when he gets called on that rhetoric by some papers he backs off saying that not only was his wording "excessive", but that he couldn't even recall half of the attrocities he accussed these soliders of committing.

That seems pretty gutless to me and I'm sure him taking those words back in 2002 really is a nice consolation to all those veterans that got spit on and chastised back in the 70s in part because of what Kerry testified he "saw".

Again, I'm not attacking his service, I'm attacking his political opportunism in stretching the truth to get him in the spotlight at the expense of many veterans that served their country just as patriotic as Kerry did.

Imagine coming home from a war that you probably didn't want to be in, perhaps lost a limb, and being spit on by protestors when you arrived back home. Then, you turn on the TV and see John Kerry stereotyping you and your closest friends as mindless drug-induced Rambos pillaging Vietnamese villages and raping women.

Now you know exactly what is was like to be my best friend's dad in the 1970s.

But, wait, we can't attack Kerry for that because he served in Vietnam.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Arles

So then you have no problem with Kerry doing the following?

Again, I'm not attacking his service, I'm attacking his political opportunism in stretching the truth to get him in the spotlight at the expense of many veterans that served their country just as patriotic as Kerry did.

Imagine coming home from a war that you probably didn't want to be in, perhaps lost a limb, and being spit on by protestors when you arrived back home. Then, you turn on the TV and see John Kerry stereotyping you and your closest friends as mindless drug-induced Rambos pillaging Vietnamese villages and raping women.

Now you know exactly what is was like to be my best friend's dad in the 1970s.

But, wait, we can't attack Kerry for that because he served in Vietnam.

Do you think Kerry would have continued to make speeches/protest if he knew/thought that his actions and comments would lead to the mistreatment of his fellow vets? Hell he was a vet, I seriously doubt he would want this. He was standing up for what he believed was right, even though it was contrary to his actions(his participation in military actions.) I think it takes a man to be able to do so.

The easy thing for himself would have been to shut up. But he stood up for his principals. Perhaps he should have been more calm and rational about it. Perhaps he shouldn't have said anything at all at the time, for there was enough yelling from both sides. But hindsight is 20/20. He served his country, but didn't like to see what he felt were needless deaths. Do you think someone who doesn't want to see people die needlessly, and so then has the fortitude to protest against a war he signs up for, would want vets lives to be worsened?

[Sharpieman]

I second that guy

[Sharpieman]

dola, plus I feel confident that Kerry cares enough to give Veterans better health insurance and fund veteran hospitals. If you haven't noticed, while the top 1% of the income tax bracket have been getting tax cuts, Veteran hospitals have been shut down because of cuts as with Veteran benefits.

[Warhammer]

What cracks me up, you have people on the left clammoring for Bush to be brought up on war crimes, and then on their ticket is a man who admitted to committing war crimes, and then gets selective amnesia.

There one thing I cannot figure out, how did Kerry get the nomination?

[GoldenEagle]

Kerry is saying now that....

Ah screw it, I hate political threads.

Go Arles.

[Warhammer]

Couple of things regarding the veterans. From what I understand, their funding has been a prime area for spending cuts for years (not that this is right, but Bush is not breaking new ground there).

If Kerry wanted to protest the war, then why lie about what was done in Vietnam? Why make up all this stuff about the medals. Tell the truth, it makes things much easier, you do not need to remember the last story you told.

That said, I really wish both parties would get rid of the primary system. I believe we had much better candidates when the parties nominated their best candidate, rather than opening it up to popular vote.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

What cracks me up, you have people on the left clammoring for Bush to be brought up on war crimes, and then on their ticket is a man who admitted to committing war crimes, and then gets selective amnesia.

I think that would be a valid point, if you saw/heard people actually saying that Bush should. I don't think you will find that many Americans who would support bringing their own president up on actual war crimes. Perhaps 100 or so wackos somewhere.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

If Kerry wanted to protest the war, then why lie about what was done in Vietnam? Why make up all this stuff about the medals. Tell the truth, it makes things much easier, you do not need to remember the last story you told.

Well without getting into the specifics and without knowing for sure if he lied/exaggerated and to what degree, I will say that lieing/exaggerating was a sign of the times. It was a heated debate. For the most part one side clinging to what they felt was the very stuff that made up their nation, and they felt they were fighting the communist threat against it. For the most part the other side just wanted an end to the fighting. MOST of the antiwar protests supported Vets, many having vets like Kerry speaking. They wanted the troops brought home and safe.

In the heat of the arguements it should be no surprise that various sides got carried away. Professional politicians called Kerry and those like him communists, unamerican, traitors, ect. Lies and exaggerations are/were they not?

Perhaps Kerry should have known better if indeed he exaggerated/lied. But he was a young man who just saw the horrors of war and wanted it to stop. When you think you have a chance to save peoples lives, is it not possible you would get carried away? This is not to blindly defend him, he shouldnt have lied if he did. But I am surprised if there is anyone that can truly not be sympathetic to him at all if they put real thought into his situation.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

If you haven't noticed, while the top 1% of the income tax bracket have been getting tax cuts, Veteran hospitals have been shut down because of cuts as with Veteran benefits.

STOP BELIEVING MICHAEL MOORE

http://www1.va.gov/cares/

Seven VA hospitals that were in areas of declining population (thus underutilized) were the ones that were proposed to be closed. At the same time, it was recommended that new VA hospitals be built (as well as blind rehabilitation and spinal cord injury centers) in areas where population growth merited them.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Do you think Kerry would have continued to make speeches/protest if he knew/thought that his actions and comments would lead to the mistreatment of his fellow vets?

What did he think would happen when he classified them with a broad brush in the way he did? Kerry's a smart man, I think he knew there would have to be some sort of fallout against fellow vets when he described them as rapists and murderers.

Hell he was a vet

No, he was the "hero" that blew the whistle on all the evil soldiers, fulfilling the stereotype that all the anti-war protesters so hoped was true.

I seriously doubt he would want this. He was standing up for what he believed was right, even though it was contrary to his actions(his participation in military actions.) I think it takes a man to be able to do so. The easy thing for himself would have been to shut up.

No, the easy thing would be to sell out his fellow soldiers to get back inside the democratic party as a main player.

The hard thing would have been for him to report these "atrocities" to the authorities while he was in Vietnam and while he was witnessing them. Of course, if he did that he would have needed to actually seen the events with his own eyes.

That would have taken real courage, not coming out and telling an irate capitol hill exactly what it wanted to hear while in the protection of the US senate.

[Ryche]

Bringing this back to the convention, Clinton showed why he was one of the most popular recent presidents. But he really set a high bar for Kerry to match speechwise on Thursday.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by VPI97

STOP BELIEVING MICHAEL MOORE

http://www1.va.gov/cares/

Seven VA hospitals that were in areas of declining population (thus underutilized) were the ones that were proposed to be closed. At the same time, it was recommended that new VA hospitals be built (as well as blind rehabilitation and spinal cord injury centers) in areas where population growth merited them.

While I think the system needs more attention to it, and quite a bit more funds, the closing of many VA hospitals is an overworked issue. I've been around a couple that have been closed/will be closed soon. In both cases the hospitals had very little work load compared to larger VA hospitals that were nearby.(In both cases 15 minutes away or closer.)

[stevew]

Arles is seriously pwning everyone in this thread.

How the fuck is this the best the Dems could offer? Seriously.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by stevew

How the fuck is this the best the Dems could offer? Seriously.

It's amazing. I've always voted Republican, but I would have likely voted for Leiberman or some other of the potentials this time around. Instead they trot out this douchebag.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Arles

What did he think would happen when he classified them with a broad brush in the way he did? Kerry's a smart man, I think he knew there would have to be some sort of fallout against fellow vets when he described them as rapists and murderers.

No, he was the "hero" that blew the whistle on all the evil soldiers, fulfilling the stereotype that all the anti-war protesters so hoped was true.

No, the easy thing would be to sell out his fellow soldiers to get back inside the democratic party as a main player.

The hard thing would have been for him to report these "atrocities" to the authorities while he was in Vietnam and while he was witnessing them. Of course, if he did that he would have needed to actually seen the events with his own eyes.

That would have taken real courage, not coming out and telling an irate capitol hill exactly what it wanted to hear while in the protection of the US senate.

Wow. When some people want to dislike someone, they really go out of their way. I think there are much easier ways to be the "hero" than taking the protester route. So being a dispicable human being, as I would describe what you think Kerrys motives are, doesn't even make rational sense to me.

But hey, if making him out to be a bastard makes you feel better, screw rationality. Not to say it doesnt happen to both sides though, some do the same to Bush. Doesn't make sense to me in either case though, just wasted negative emotions IMO.