Ping: The One True Dark Jedi

[HornedFrog Purple]

Thanks for making my afternoon. I guess I just don't get it but that's one of the funniest things I have read in ages.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

I guess I just don't get it

Neither do I, apparently.

[Franklinnoble]

I think HFP needs to change the bong water or something...

[Ben E Lou]

Is this guy for real???

[HornedFrog Purple]

I guess so, I thought he was kidding at first but apparently you've sinned pretty badly.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

I guess so, I thought he was kidding at first but apparently you've sinned pretty badly.

Maybe I really am The One True Dark Jedi.

[vtbub]

Huh?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Huh?

obviously we missed something.

[rkmsuf]

if it has anything to do with sabres take it offline

[VPI97]

¿Qué?

[HornedFrog Purple]

SkyDog combined some facepacks into one huge file for OOTP so it would give every player a face and didnt put the readme's into the file and one of the guys who made one of the facepacks is angry because he says SkyDog stole his work is what I gather.

[Hammer755]

Some folks over here take it seriously as well.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=55705

[VPI97]

dick-tater?

[HornedFrog Purple]

dola

I thought the guy was kidding at first, but apparently he is pretty angry.

[LivnLegend]

Come on guys, I can't believe I am that far removed from sounding sane here...

The guy took work I spent many hours on and compiled in with someone else’s and then released it as "SkyDog's Combined Fictional Photos" with not a single piece of credit to the people who really put the photos together.

I started by kindly asking for credit and/or removal in a Personal Message. He refused. I followed up with a couple posts in the thread where he was advertising his new file. Instead of acquiescing and apologizing he continues to spin this as me being the bad guy and him being a saint for delivering these photos to the masses.

It would have been nice if he asked first. It would have been nice had he given credit to those who did the real work. It would have been nice if he apologized after this was pointed out. SkyDog chose to take a different path each time. I have asked him repeatedly to remove my work from his file and he refuses. I even pointed out which files were my work to overcome his objection of "I can't remove your files because I don't know which ones are yours!" (paraphrasing).

I know this isn't the end of the world and I know you'll have to side with you esteemed "Jedi" but I thought I'd point out I'm not stark raving lunatic most of the time.

[rkmsuf]

here we go

[QuikSand]

Gee, that really doesn't sound like the SkyDog I know.

[Chubby]

DING DING

No rabbit punches, no hitting below the belt and no biting.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Gee, that really doesn't sound like the SkyDog I know.

fear leads to hate, hate leads to...

or something like that

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

I know this isn't the end of the world and I know you'll have to side with you esteemed "Jedi" but I thought I'd point out I'm not stark raving lunatic most of the time.

Just some times then?

(Gets popcorn, this ought to be good)

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Just some times then?

(Gets popcorn, this ought to be good)

I'll give you "some of the time" but this would not be one of the instances!

[rkmsuf]

would "in your face" be an appropriate taunt?

[cthomer5000]

honestly, it seems pretty simply to me. SkyDog should give everyone (whose facepacks he used) credit.

I completely see where LivnLegend is coming from.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

honestly, it seems pretty simply to me. SkyDog should give everyone (whose facepacks he used) credit.

I completely see where LivnLegend is coming from.

Yup, I agree. Otherwise it seems like theivery is a foot.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

I started by kindly asking for credit and/or removal in a Personal Message. He refused. I followed up with a couple posts in the thread where he was advertising his new file. Instead of acquiescing and apologizing he continues to spin this as me being the bad guy and him being a saint for delivering these photos to the masses.

Dude, he offered to give you credit in his first reply.

He also said "my bad" repeatedly.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

I'll give you "some of the time" but this would not be one of the instances!

After reading the thread in question, I think you got off a bit on the wrong foot, and jumped a little bit in with the spikes high, to use a sports term, causing the bad feeling to flow.. Dude.. just take a couple deep breaths, and realize it's doing NEITHER of you any good to fight this out in public. Ok?

[HornedFrog Purple]

Sorry LivnLegend, I didn't know that what he did was a transgression, I thought at first you were kidding. My apologies.

I am pretty sure you two can work it out, I am pretty confident SkyDog didn't mean to step on your toes. But as far as his not apologizing, he did 3 or 4 times in the thread.

[Chubby]

where is this intial thread you people speak of?

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Chubby

where is this intial thread you people speak of?

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...0&page=1&pp=20

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by digamma

Dude, he offered to give you credit in his first reply.

He also said "my bad" repeatedly.

Yes, a "my bad" followed with:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

If I thought I'd done something wrong, then I'd certainly apologize.

Kind of rings hollow, eh?


I sent an ernest PM to SkyDog. I'm hoping it puts the matter to rest. I didn't come here expecting to take on the lot of you (message board suicide!) but SkyDog gave me this link and I was kind of surprised to see people taking the attitude of "this is fun!" and "is this guy for real?" over the issue.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

Sorry LivnLegend, I didn't know that what he did was a transgression, I thought at first you were kidding. My apologies.

I am pretty sure you two can work it out, I am pretty confident SkyDog didn't mean to step on your toes. But as far as his not apologizing, he did 3 or 4 times in the thread.

I didn't really see an apology in the thread, unless you count this.

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Well, my bad, I reckon. As I said, I had no clue that credit mattered so much.

But that was followed up by this:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

If I thought I'd done something wrong, then I'd certainly apologize.

[VPI97]

Sounds like someone who needs internet recognition is getting pissy with someone who could care less about the size of their 'e-penis'.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by primelord

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...0&page=1&pp=20

thanks, i was looking all over here to find it and wondered if it was on another board.

[VPI97]

dola -

Am I correct in assuming that LivnLegend has credited all of the photographers who took the pictures he's using and calling his own?

[scooper]

Originally Posted by Chubby

thanks, i was looking all over here to find it and wondered if it was on another board.

There are other boards?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by scooper

There are other boards?

I know, I know.


Anyways

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by VPI97

dola -

Am I correct in assuming that LivnLegend has credited all of the photographers who took the pictures he's using and calling his own?

I wondered how long it would take someone to come up with that argument.
I'm pretty sure most people can see that for the flawed logic that it is.

[Chubby]

So does this mean I can take SkyDog's research threads, post them under my name, and not give him any credit for them?

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

I wondered how long it would take someone to come up with that argument.
I'm pretty sure most people can see that for the flawed logic that it is.

Actually, quite honestly, it's not (if true, which it certainly seems to be, from your response):

You are using their work without permission. He is using your work without permission.

What's the difference?

Look at the CM games. They had to remove most of the photos from the last couple of them, because of the photographer's rights thing.

Your platform doesn't seem to be as solid as first believed.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Chubby

So does this mean I can take SkyDog's research threads, post them under my name, and not give him any credit for them?

I've done that several times at secret locations. I'm an internet phenom.

[vtbub]

So wouldn't just adding a readme with credit satisfy everybody?

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

I wondered how long it would take someone to come up with that argument.
I'm pretty sure most people can see that for the flawed logic that it is.

Explain the difference to me then...I'm apparently not that smart.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by vtbub

So wouldn't just adding a readme with credit satisfy everybody?

I would think so.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I would think so.

We need drama dude.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Actually, quite honestly, it's not (if true, which it certainly seems to be, from your response):

You are using their work without permission. He is using your work without permission.

What's the difference?

Look at the CM games. They had to remove most of the photos from the last couple of them, because of the photographer's rights thing.

Your platform doesn't seem to be as solid as first believed.

Not having looked at the readmes for his work, one would assume that he states that he assembled these pictures from wherever recognizing that he didn't physically take the pictures himself.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Not having looked at the readmes for his work, one would assume that he states that he assembled these pictures from wherever recognizing that he didn't physically take the pictures himself.

Wouldn't that be the same thing that SD's post stated?

[SirFozzie]

So if SkyDog puts in a readme, and states he assembled several facepacks together and recognizes that he didn't convert them to OOTP-ized form, then LL should have no reason to bitch, right?

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by VPI97

dola -

Am I correct in assuming that LivnLegend has credited all of the photographers who took the pictures he's using and calling his own?

missing the point entirely.

I can tell you firsthand that there is a TREMENDOUS amount of work that goes into making these sets (I spent well over 150 hours on mine, and that doesn't include the time spent writing a program to assist me with it). If someone came along and appeared to (key word "appeared") be simply repackaging my set, I would be furious. I would come in with both guns blazing as well.

I know that Ben had good intentions - it wasn't even something he set out to do, just a last-minute afterthought. Modders don't get paid for their effort; they just get the thanks from everyone in the community (except for Malleus, but he's a douchebag). Doing something like this without permission seems innocent enough, but anything that takes credit away from the original work can be tough to swallow.

Yes, Scott came on pretty strong right off the bat, but I think if Ben had just apologized sincerely up front for the mistake, that thread wouldn't have turned into the train wreck it bacame.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Explain the difference to me then...I'm apparently not that smart.

I'd imagine there was some work cropping/resizing images to the OOTP format.

Look at the helmets cuervo has done. While I'm sure tons (including the one he did for me) used copyrighted art work without permission, would that mean that he should go without credit if someone else were to re-use them?

While there is probably more work in creating an 'original' helmet based off a non-original source, I'm sure there was still a fair amount of effort put into collecting and formatting a facepack.

Solving this 'problem' is so simple, it should have been done already. A 'THANK YOU' text file would be all you need.

Just my opinion on this.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Chubby

So does this mean I can take SkyDog's research threads, post them under my name, and not give him any credit for them?

or, better yet, his music.