Eli Manning doesn't want to go to San Diego

[Young Drachma]

ESPN is reporting that his Dad and agent contacted the Chargers, hoping they'd keep it quiet. But they're blowing up Eli's spot, probably hoping to get more from the Giants.

I can't see them drafting him and having him play there, when its obvious not only that he doesn't want to be there, but that they could still get a good quarterback of the future, plus more which would help them more.

THoughts?

[Bad-example]

Call him Elway Manning

[CraigSca]

Yep, I thought the same thing. Considering how awful the Colts were at the time I probably should be more understanding, but I still hold a grudge against Elway for refusing to be picked by the Colts.

[MizzouRah]

What's all this 'refusal' crap going on? He's about to make a boatload of money, isn't that enough? I hate it when a professional sports player refuses to sign with a team after he's been drafted (yes, JD Drew). Must be nice to make millions of $$$$ AND get to work where you want to.

Only in America!


Todd

[Taur]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

What's all this 'refusal' crap going on? He's about to make a boatload of money, isn't that enough? I hate it when a professional sports player refuses to sign with a team after he's been drafted (yes, JD Drew). Must be nice to make millions of $$$$ AND get to work where you want to.

Only in America!

So you prefer the A-Rods with their take the money and screw the fans type of attitude?

Actually, yes only in America can a person have the freedom to decide where they live and where they work. I live and work in Colorado, where I spend most of my off time Skiing and Kayaking. If my boss would show up tomorrow and inform me that I had been transferred to the Death Valley branch I would tell him where he could stick his transfer papers.

So, yes Only in America! can we enjoy the freedom of living and working where we choose!

[Daimyo]

I guess he's not as much like his older brother as I hoped...

[sabotai]

Oh God damn it Ernie Acoursi, take the fucking stud lineman! Why do I get the feeling that I'm going to have an aneurysm thanks to this guy this weekend?

[Hurst2112]

Here we go with another draftee refusing to go where he is told. Sounds like another thread we have here.

What is strange is that the teams and players seem to work things out in the end. It really doesn't harm anybody (cept the fans) because if SD really did draft him, they can use him to trade for equal talent or compensation (in theory).

What I don't like is the attitude of players and their advice men in situations like these.

Has there been anybody like this in the past that didn't go to a team and that team won a super bowl before the player and his new team did? Can't think of any, but it would be just desserts if it happened in this case.

Oh yeah, we're talking about the Chargers and a Manning. Nevermind.

[JeeberD]

On ESPN Radio they were talking about how they think it could be because "Archie played for a flailing franchise and he know's first hand how bad it can be. He doesn't want the same thing for his son."

Excuse me? Weren't the Colts a flailing franchise when Peyton got drafted by them? They might not had been as bad as the 'Aints, but they were at least as bad as the Chargers have been the past few years.

Shit like this just pisses me off...

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Yep, I thought the same thing. Considering how awful the Colts were at the time I probably should be more understanding, but I still hold a grudge against Elway for refusing to be picked by the Colts.

The question that'll never be answered: If Elway smiles and decides to be the cornerstone of the Baltimore Colts, does that slimy weasel Irsay pack up the vans in the middle of the night? I know it's been 21 years, but Indy Colts still don't sound right. Neither does Ballamoe Ravens. (Isn't a raven a bird that feeds off of dead, decaying animals? Hey, The Indianapolis Ravens. It fits the Irsay name very well...)

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Originally Posted by Taur

So you prefer the A-Rods with their take the money and screw the fans type of attitude?

Actually, yes only in America can a person have the freedom to decide where they live and where they work. I live and work in Colorado, where I spend most of my off time Skiing and Kayaking. If my boss would show up tomorrow and inform me that I had been transferred to the Death Valley branch I would tell him where he could stick his transfer papers.

So, yes Only in America! can we enjoy the freedom of living and working where we choose!

If he told you that you would get a $15 million moving bonus and a salary in the $10 mil range you'd be thinking "Well, it is warm there and I'll have a nice tan..." (Not to mention that it's only half the year)

[bhlloy]

Funny thing is, with a decent QB and Ladanian Tomlinson the Chargers could be a very good team in a couple of years. I'd rather go there than the Giants, who have an above average QB and still sucked last year. At least the Chargers realise you need an offensive line to play football and a QB plays better when he doesn't have to pick his teeth up from the turf every other play.

Archie should stop bitching and realise that the fact that he's going to go at the top of the first round means HE'S NOT GOING TO GO TO A GOOD TEAM.
That's the point of the draft to make the bad teams better. Idiot.

Send him to the Cardinals and let him learn the real definition of bush league franchise.

[Peregrine]

I think this may all play into the Chargers hands anyway. From several articles I've read recently, they'd be just as happy with Rivers as with Manning anyway, so if they can pull off the heavily-rumored deal with the Giants, it would work out pretty well for them.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I think this may all play into the Chargers hands anyway. From several articles I've read recently, they'd be just as happy with Rivers as with Manning anyway, so if they can pull off the heavily-rumored deal with the Giants, it would work out pretty well for them.

yes and no. In one way its good because it will let them off the hook if they trade down (no one will be able to fault them for not taking Manning).

It's bad in the way that they might lose a lot of bargaining leverage. The Giants can pretty much dare the Chargers to take Manning. If they do, they can probably land Gallery. If the Chargers don't take Manning - he'll probably fall to them at #4.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

yes and no. In one way its good because it will let them off the hook if they trade down (no one will be able to fault them for not taking Manning).

It's bad in the way that they might lose a lot of bargaining leverage. The Giants can pretty much dare the Chargers to take Manning. If they do, they can probably land Gallery. If the Chargers don't take Manning - he'll probably fall to them at #4.

Don't you think the Raiders are likely to pick Gallery, then ?

[bhlloy]

I don't think Gallery or Manning falls past the Raiders (Manning would be a great Al Davis high profile pick and they are interested in Gallery), so I'm not sure this helps the Giants too much. And if the Raiders take Fitzgerald instead that leaves Arizona taking Manning/Gallery.
Seems the first 3 picks are pretty set (in one order or another) and the Giants still have to get up to number 2 to get one of the two players they want.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by BigJohn&TheLions

If he told you that you would get a $15 million moving bonus and a salary in the $10 mil range you'd be thinking "Well, it is warm there and I'll have a nice tan..." (Not to mention that it's only half the year)

Exactly!

We're not talking about my piddly salary, so YES I choose where I live and work. If I just got out of technical school and say, a company in New York drafted me, giving me a 15mil signing bonus... New York here I come.

That's the friggin rules, you go in the draft, you get drafted, shut your hole and play your ass off.


Todd

[Samdari]

I think everyone is being a bit hard on Eli here. So far, there are no reports of him saying anything, its all been attributed to his father. Also, don't confuse expressing a preference with a flat out refusal to play. Bottom line, if Eli gets drafted by San Diego, he'll show up and play.

[Tekneek]

So, if you get paid millions of dollars, you should not get to have any say about where you work and who you work for?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I think everyone is being a bit hard on Eli here. So far, there are no reports of him saying anything, its all been attributed to his father. Also, don't confuse expressing a preference with a flat out refusal to play. Bottom line, if Eli gets drafted by San Diego, he'll show up and play.

Just because his last name is Manning does not mean he does not deserve to get his ass ripped for this one. There are no reports of him not saying anything either. And despite the fact that the "genius" Denny Green is coaching in Arizona, I am sure that there is a preference for other players not to go there. Eli Manning, IMO, is looking like a spoiled brat who does not even have the guts to stand on his own two feet. He has his daddy speaking for him. Tags is trying to placate everybody. Archie Manning is meeting with Scottenheimer??!! What is this? The NFL or Pop Warner. Maybe Eli should join Clarett in the Arena League

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

There are no reports of him not saying anything either.

So, whenever a potential draftee is silent, the media is supposed to report it?

[Francis_Cole]

He's about to make a boatload of money

Maybe he doesn't think money isn't everything? Seems sensible to me

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

So, whenever a potential draftee is silent, the media is supposed to report it?

No meaning that if Eli was not in agreement with what Papa Archie is pulling, he would say so

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

So, if you get paid millions of dollars, you should not get to have any say about where you work and who you work for?

Not if your are drafted by the NFL, no.

If you want to forego your NFL career and be a roofer or something, then go for it.

[oykib]

If you were a talented QB, would you want to play for Marty Schottenheimer?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

No meaning that if Eli was not in agreement with what Papa Archie is pulling, he would say so

Why would he? You say that like it is automatic. I care far more about what my father thinks of me than the general public, so in this case, I would not make a statement distancing myself from my father.

I just really do not understand what the problem is with asking to have some say in where you work. I don't see why people are having such a problem distinguishing between requesting and demanding. They are quite different.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Subby

Not if your are drafted by the NFL, no.

If you want to forego your NFL career and be a roofer or something, then go for it.

That's the chance the Chargers can take then, right? Draft him and see if he will play for them. NFL rules say that teams can draft you and get exlusive rights to you. That's fine. You also have the right to sign with them or not. Nothing wrong with that. It's called freedom, and we have that freedom here. NFL rules do not say that you MUST sign a contract when a team uses a draft pick on you.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by oykib

If you were a talented QB, would you want to play for Marty Schottenheimer?

Well he did so much for uh...uh....uh

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Why would he? You say that like it is automatic. I care far more about what my father thinks of me than the general public, so in this case, I would not make a statement distancing myself from my father.

I just really do not understand what the problem is with asking to have some say in where you work. I don't see why people are having such a problem distinguishing between requesting and demanding. They are quite different.

You mean like T.O. requesting to not be traded to Ravens

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

So, if you get paid millions of dollars, you should not get to have any say about where you work and who you work for?

In sports, no. You go where you are drafted, shut the hell up, and play a game for a living. Seems like a small price to pay, and I don't feel bad for any of them.

[WSUCougar]

Because it's not "asking" where to go, it's leveraging in a draft system. It's saying "I'm going to be a problem for you if you draft me." So San Diego suddenly has lost some leverage in its trade negotiations for the #1 pick, and it has to reassess its draft strategy for what may be a franchise-altering pick.

Edit: typo

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Because it's not "asking" where to go, it's leveraging in a draft system. It's saying "I'm going to be a problem for you if you draft me." So San Diego suddenly has lost some leverage in its trade negotiations for the #1 pick, and it has to reassess its draft strategy for what may be a franchise-altering pick.

Normally, I would agree with that. But the only reason we are discussing this on this board is because the Chargers told the media. Why would they do that if it was going to hurt them? Were they looking to wimp out anyway (by being afraid to take a QB #1) and now they have someone to publicly blame?

The Mannings did not play this for leverage - to do that they would have had been screaming to the press for months that Eli was not going to play for them. Instead, they kept it private and the Chargers - ostensibly the party that is hurt by this being so public - told the whole world.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Because it's not "asking" where to go, it's leveraging in a draft system. It's saying "I'm going to be a problem for you if you draft me." So San Diego suddenly has lost some leverage in its trade negotiations for the #1 pick, and it has to reassess its draft strategy for what may be a franchise-altering pick.

Edit: typo

DING DING DING, We HAVE a winner!

[HornedFrog Purple]

LT needs to get out of that disaster of a franchise.

[oykib]

F--- the Chargers. I say more power to the draftees. They have one piece of leverage. Why shouldn't they use it?

It's up to the team and the league to call the player's bluff. If they can't, then he wins and gets everything he wants.

I love how sports fans are always determining what's enough for someone else...

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by oykib

I love how sports fans are always determining what's enough for someone else...

It seems to be jealousy.

[cthomer5000]

1. Samdari hit it on the head - I think it's being overblown, and we haven't anything about a "refusal" to play for San Diego - just a preference.
2. I don't know if anyone will be playing for Schottenheimer after this year.
3. I haven't heard too much on the Raiders taking Gallery, so I do not think they'd do it if Manning goes #1 overall. I still think they take Roy Williams if that happens. The Giants would probably need to trade up to 3 then, or someone else will.

[sachmo71]

Here is the article so that folks can judge the semantics of "requests and demands" for themselves.

The Chargers have the top pick in the draft. Ole Miss quarterback Eli Manning is projected, by most accounts, as the top player available.



One problem -- Manning does not want to play for San Diego. He'd rather be in New York with the Giants, who have the fourth pick.


Manning's agent, Tom Condon, informed the Chargers that Archie Manning does not want his son to be drafted by the team. Chargers general manager A.J. Smith confirmed the news Wednesday night, a day after the elder Manning visited team officials at the Chargers training complex.


"Tom Condon informed us about the wishes of Archie Manning in regards to his son, Eli," Smith told ESPN.com's John Clayton. "We had a good visit with Archie and we told him we may be selecting his son with the first pick in the draft. Tom told us Archie's wishes are that we not do that and that New York would be a good fit."


ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports that Condon informed the Chargers about the Mannings' feelings last week prior to Archie's visit. After hearing of the news, NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue contacted the elder Manning and asked him to meet with Chargers president Dean Spanos.


Spanos, according to Mortensen, met with Archie Manning and asked him to visit with Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer. But despite the visit this week, the former NFL quarterback remains convinced that San Diego is not a good fit for Eli -- although the Manning family did not want their feelings to be made public, according to Mortensen.


Archie Manning, reached Wednesday night by the New York Daily News, said he was aware that the Chargers had decided to discuss the matter publicly.


"My understanding is the Chargers have said that. I'm not going to comment on it tonight," Manning told the newspaper. "I've got to huddle with Eli and Tom and see where we are on this thing. The only thing I'll say is I never talked to the Chargers about the Giants. I was asked to come to San Diego and see them."


Will the Mannings' stance affect the Chargers' thinking going into the draft? Smith would not guarantee Condon that the team would grant Archie Manning's request.


"We told them we will do what will be in the best interest of the San Diego Chargers," Smith told Clayton.


Earlier this month, Giants general manager Ernie Accorsi called the Chargers to express an interest in trading up from the No. 4 pick to No. 1 in order to select the younger Manning.


A third team entered the bidding Wednesday for the first pick when the Browns called. Cleveland wants to move up and pick left tackle Robert Gallery of Iowa.


The Chargers face some interesting decisions. Do they trade the pick to the Giants, allowing them to take Manning and giving the impression that the player was dictating the draft? If they take Gallery or another player -- or if they trade with a team such as the Browns that wouldn't select Manning -- they would be giving Manning to their division rival, the Oakland Raiders.


"We haven't decided what we are going to do," Smith said. "We could stay there and pick. It could be Eli. It could be someone else. We will do what we think is best. For now, we are staying where we are and then see what develops over the next couple of days."


The San Diego Union-Tribune reported that Archie Manning has been doing background checks on the Chargers this month. The newspaper reported that Manning's actions aren't unusual -- he looked into various colleges before both Eli and Colts quarterback Peyton Manning went to school.


The elder Manning then met with team officials this week.


"It was an opportunity to just sit down and just visit," Schottenheimer told the Union-Tribune. "He came in around the late afternoon and left first thing this morning. I don't know that there was any quizzing going on. He wanted to visit with us, and we wanted to visit with him."


Archie Manning may fear that Eli will fall into the same situation that Archie suffered while quarterback of the downtrodden Saints in the 1970s. He played in the NFL for 14 years, 11 of them with the Saints, without ever making the playoffs.


The Chargers have not had a winning season since 1995 and have only four winning seasons in the past 20 years.


While quarterback and a tackle are high on the Chargers' list, they have several other desperate needs. Trading down would allow them to stockpile picks and possibly players, as well as avoid paying a hefty signing bonus that a top pick would command.


"I know [the Chargers] have a lot of different options," Condon recently said.


Condon also represents Peyton Manning, who was selected by the Indianapolis Colts with the first pick in the 1998 draft. Condon said the Colts didn't decide until the night before that draft that they would take Manning, leaving the Chargers to take Ryan Leaf.


Leaf cost the Chargers an $11.25 million signing bonus and turned out to be one of the biggest busts in NFL history.


Four years ago, the Chargers traded the draft's top pick to Atlanta for the fifth pick, receiver-returner Tim Dwight and additional picks. The Falcons took Michael Vick and the Chargers got LaDainian Tomlinson. San Diego is 17-31 since that trade.


"I could care less about the Ryan Leaf decision," Smith told Clayton. "I've heard it so many times that we can't take a quarterback because of what happened in the past. Whether we decide to take a quarterback or not has nothing to do with Ryan Leaf. I didn't take this job with the idea that we can't do something that might help the team."


Despite the feelings expressed by the Manning family, the Chargers may see Eli as the only hope to resurrect the franchise. Manning's stature entering the NFL is very high.


"I think you're probably pretty safe picking Eli Manning," Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren told the Indianapolis Star.

To me, it doesn't matter if it's a perfumed envelope message requesting to not play for a team or a horses head in Spanos' bed. He (Archie)is making requests that he really shouldn't have a right to make.

If Archie wants to choose the team his son plays for, have him skip the draft and become a free agent. Then he can choose his team with no problem. If it isn't about the money, this shouldn't be a problem for him.

[ageofquarrel]

I guess he's not as much like his older brother as I hoped...

Didnt peyton stay his senior year in college because the Jets were going to draft him if he left early?

I saw an interviewwith Eli were he was asked what the first thing he would buy would be. Didnt sound like a guy who had a hard time paying his bills. Plus i mean its thursday and this dipshits in san diego dont even know what the hell they are going to do. I mean if i was Eli and saw that san diego werent sure about drafting me when im considered by most the no 1 QB in the draft when drew brees is their QB. I wouldnt want to play for them either.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

If Archie wants to choose the team his son plays for, have him skip the draft and become a free agent.

He doesn't have that right - noone does. If they did, just about every top prospect would do so.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Samdari

He doesn't have that right - noone does. If they did, just about every top prospect would do so.

He could just refuse to sign for two years, then he'd be free to choose his team for the 2006 season.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Samdari

He doesn't have that right - noone does. If they did, just about every top prospect would do so.

He could go play baseball or something. Like Henson, or Hutchinson. It worked out for them didn't it? Oh wait...

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by ageofquarrel

Didnt peyton stay his senior year in college because the Jets were going to draft him if he left early?

Correct. It was very largely reported that Peyton decided to go back because Parcells would not guarantee him the Jets would take him #1 overall. Kind of the reverse of the situation we see right now.

I saw an interviewwith Eli were he was asked what the first thing he would buy would be. Didnt sound like a guy who had a hard time paying his bills. Plus i mean its thursday and this dipshits in san diego dont even know what the hell they are going to do. I mean if i was Eli and saw that san diego werent sure about drafting me when im considered by most the no 1 QB in the draft when drew brees is their QB. I wouldnt want to play for them either.

I can understand not wanting to play there.

• Bad coaching situation. Either Schottenheimer gets fired after this season - or worse, he hangs around and Eli gets to hand off 500 times a year while passing 200 until the end of the Schottenheimer regime. Look at the QB stats for starters under Marty, it ain't pretty.
• The team is in a stadium/possible relocation distraction. Everyone knows they're possibly moving to L.A. in a few years. Maybe he doesn't want to be part of that.
• The Chargers just suck. They're still at least 2 years from the playoffs.

[cthomer5000]

This is probably all Archie needed to see before making his remarks:

Marty Schottenheimer's Career Record Year Team W L T Starting QB Comp. Att. Yards TD INT 1984 * Cle. 4 4 0 Paul McDonald 271 493 3,472 14 23 1985 Cle. 8 8 0 Bernie Kosar 124 248 1,578 8 7 1986 Cle. 12 4 0 Bernie Kosar 310 531 3,854 17 10 1987 Cle. 10 5 0 Bernie Kosar 241 389 3,033 22 9 1988 Cle. 10 6 0 Bernie Kosar 156 259 1,890 10 7 1989 K.C. 8 7 1 Steve DeBerg 196 324 2,529 11 16 1990 K.C. 11 5 0 Steve DeBerg 258 444 3,444 23 4 1991 K.C. 10 6 0 Steve DeBerg 256 434 2,965 17 14 1992 K.C. 10 6 0 Dave Kreig 230 413 3,115 15 12 1993 K.C. 11 5 0 Joe Montana 181 298 2,144 13 7 1994 K.C. 9 7 0 Joe Montana 299 493 3,283 16 9 1995 K.C. 13 3 0 Steve Bono 293 520 3,121 21 10 1996 K.C. 9 7 0 Steve Bono 235 438 2,572 12 13 1997 K.C. 13 3 0 Elvis Grbac 179 314 1,943 11 6 1998 K.C. 7 9 0 Rich Gannon 206 354 2,305 10 6 2001 Was. 8 8 0 Tony Banks 198 370 2,386 10 10 2002 S.D. 8 8 0 Drew Brees 320 526 3,284 17 16 2003 S.D. 4 12 0 Drew Brees 205 356 2,108 11 15 Totals 165 113 1 * -- Replaced Sam Rutigliano after eight games.

[sachmo71]

Wow, Steve DeBerg had a nice year in 90.

[daedalus]

Probably nitpicking and possibly influenced by my dislike of Owens but I find this to be a different situation than Owens' situation. Owens was under contract with the 49ers. He was already being paid by them. In my opinion, with his John Hancock already on that contract, he's SOL. On the other hand, Manning hasn't signed with the Chargers and doesn't owe them anything. Being selected merely gives the Chargers the exclusive right to negotiate with him.

On the other hand, it still annoys me that they did that. Sounds really illogical, I know. Oh, the other thing that bugs me as well is that they made it public. That really screws the Chargers over as far as what leverage they might have in negotiating with other teams.

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

What I don't like is the attitude of players and their advice men in situations like these.

That's my big thing. I dislike these "advice" people in this situation, filling players' ears with their own crap.

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Has there been anybody like this in the past that didn't go to a team and that team won a super bowl before the player and his new team did? Can't think of any, but it would be just desserts if it happened in this case.

Wrong sport but the one that always stuck in my mind was Todd Van Poppel letting it be known that he would not sign with the Braves if drafted. So they settled for a local shortstop name Larry Wayne Jones.

Unless you want to count Bo.

[cthomer5000]

And was K.C. bound to use only ex-49er QB's for a while there? It seems so crazy in retrospect.

[GrantDawg]

Cush: "I'll either surf or ski. I'll either surf or ski."

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by daedalus

...Wrong sport but the one that always stuck in my mind was Todd Van Poppel letting it be known that he would not sign with the Braves if drafted. So they settled for a local shortstop name Larry Wayne Jones.

I love that story. One of the few where the Atlanta team came out on top.

[albionmoonlight]

Manning does not need the money in the way that a lot of top draftees do. He comes from a family of millionaires. In that sense, he has a bit more leverage than a guy whose single mother is on public assistance.