Todd Bertuzzi breaks Steve Moore's neck

[Sun Tzu]

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1754963

Aparently they are bringing up charges on Bertuzzi. In my opinion this is idiotic. It may have been a cheap shot, but that's like bringing up charges against Warren Sapp for his blindside shot earlier this year. Hockey is a violent game, and the only game that I know of where punching somebody isn't frowned upon. Now somebody gets punched and freakishly breaks his neck, and the entire hockey world is trying to place the blame of every violent act that has ever happened in game on Todd Bertuzzi. The amount of finger pointing going on makes me sick to my stomach. I'm about positive that 100% of the players/former players calling for Bertuzzi's head have gotten in their fair share of cheap shots as well. I'm not saying what he did was right, but again IMO they are taking this way too far. Let Bertuzzi apologize, serve a suspension, and have this be over with.

[Maple Leafs]

If anyone missed it, there's been extensive discussion about this incident in the NHL thread.

[hukarez]

That looks like a cheap shot to me...good grief, face first into the ice. Looks like he was already unconscious on the way down?

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

If anyone missed it, there's been extensive discussion about this incident in the NHL thread.

Whoops, sorry. I don't really check that thread as I'm not a big hockey fan.

[cincyreds]

Honestly? And this my opinion only, so don't get angry or flame me for my comments please.

I saw it countless times last night on ESPN and I think the guy meant to do it. There is no doubt about that. It was an absolute dirty rotten, no good for nothing cheap of all cheapest of cheap shots. I mean c'mon, from behind when he didn't see it coming??

Bertuzzi may have ended this kids playing career and his chance of making a living at what he is talented enough to do and that is playing hockey.

My verdict: I think Bertuzzi should be suspended without pay for however long Moore is out. If Moore misses 30-40 games, I think Bertuzzi should be out that long also.

This kind of stuff is what has turned me off from hockey, I mean I love the Stars and all but the NHL needs to tighten up and make an example out of Bertuzzi and really hand it to him. I wish they would ban guys who do these kinds of things for life from the NHL. One time would do it to and it would put a stop to it all.

I enjoy hockey because of the skill level, not for some stupid cheap shot from some guy who is obviously a coward. That hit is just sickening to watch, it really is.

[sachmo71]

I thought they were supposed to announce his punishment this morning at 9 EST. I can't find anything, yet.

[Travis]

The thing that works against Todd in this one is timing. The hit on Naslund by Moore was during the second period (if memory serves). Nobody on the Canucks went after him right after the hit, or any time during that game. Following the game, Crawford was lamenting how little respect the top scorer in the league got from the refs as no penalty was called (quick q: why should it matter who got hit, a penalty is a penalty is a penalty Crawford, don't cry because it was your star that got hit with no penalty call, I should hope you'd stand up for your 4th line guys in the same way).

Because of all the 'outrage' from the Canuck players following the game (even though they felt no need to back up their captain when it happened), they pretty much put a bounty out on Moore, and in light of that, Todd's act in the last game was nothing more than premeditated assault. While most infractions on the ice are spontaneous, or agreed upon fights by the enforcers, this has no place in the game. All he had to do was spin Moore around and give him the chance to defend himself and nobody would be on Bertuzzi's case about this, and hell, he probably would have pounded Moore into next week in a fair fight.

As somebody who has never been a fan of Bertuzzi, I've been trying to keep a somewhat objective viewpoint on this incident because it would be entirely too easy just to discount him completely, and while breaking Moore's neck was obviously not his intention, the entire act disgusts me, and I hope people don't forget about this any time soon.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I thought they were supposed to announce his punishment this morning at 9 EST. I can't find anything, yet.

Wasn't that when he and Crawford were going to be meeting with NHL officials? Not sure how long that kind of meeting would take, and how long it would take for said officials to dole out a punishment, but I would hope for something this afternoon.

[Draft Dodger]

the hearing was for 9am, but it's been delayed.
I assume it will still happen today at some point.

[Maple Leafs]

Under the circumstances, I'd assume that they'll try to get a decision out today. The league needs to be seen as acting quickly on this.

[MacroGuru]

You know, your right, Hockey is a rough game, but comparing this to Warren Sapp? Sapps was a legitimate hit. This was a blindside punch, with Bertuzzi riding Moore down to the ice, and pushing his head into it, rendering the man unconcious.

I join a lot of the others when I say toss him out for a year.

[Maple Leafs]

Here's an interesting take on the incident:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=970081593064

I don't agree with Cox on much, and I think he's being a little bit over-dramatic here, but he makes some decent points.

Hockey's culture of violence must end
Don't expect NHL to raise its voice


DAMIEN COX

Todd Bertuzzi has no defence.

Sadly, like Marty McSorley, Matt Johnson and all the other on-ice thugs that have created mayhem and hurt people before him, Bertuzzi will nonetheless have his defenders.

The mad cycle of NHL violence goes round `n' round largely because the industry is so devoid of true leaders willing to separate themselves from the pack mentality that defines the politically correct line on so many issues.

That line heard over and over yesterday was that Bertuzzi's unprovoked, unwarranted and cowardly attack on Colorado's Steve Moore two nights ago that left Moore with a fractured neck was an "unfortunate" incident.

Unfortunate? Try sickening, despicable and an affront to the sport.

But you won't hear that from this league, an environment in which goalies were once labelled as sissies for wearing masks and players thought of as less-than-manly for wearing helmets.

You won't hear a player or coach or GM or union rep stand up and call for justice on behalf of Moore. You likely won't hear any significant figures in the sport demand the NHL put an end to these vicious incidents that every two or three years lands one of the league's players in a criminal court.

You will only hear excuses and clichés and silence and empty apologies.

It's all part of a sick, age-old hockey mentality. A running back in football can cut through a hole and get drilled by a middle linebacker, and then shake off the blow and retreat to his huddle.

He doesn't demand that a player on his own team cross to the other huddle and challenge that linebacker to a fight.

In hockey, however, every clean hit is an insult to be avenged.

Every issue, to those who believe in this culture, is best resolved with fists.

You hit our guy, we high-stick you.

You knock our guy out, we put your guy in the hospital.

As long as that remains the dominant mentality, people like Steve Moore will have to suffer now and then.

Bertuzzi's boss, Vancouver Canucks GM Brian Burke, suggested yesterday that this incident should not be compared to Marty McSorley's infamous chop to the head of Donald Brashear four years ago.

Burke's right. This one's worse.

Brashear, at least, had sparred with McSorley earlier in that game. Moore, on the other hand, had done nothing to Bertuzzi during Monday's contest.

Yet Bertuzzi stalked Moore with the game far out of hand in favour of the Avs, ostensibly to seek revenge for a hit against a teammate three weeks earlier.

When Moore turned his head to continue playing the game, the 6-foot-4, 245-pound Bertuzzi struck with true cowardice, driving his gloved fist into the side of the unsuspecting Moore's head.

As Moore fell, Bertuzzi used his forearm to drive his opponent's head into the ice. As Moore lay there, face down and unconscious in a pool of blood, Bertuzzi drew his arm back to punch him again.

Thank goodness Andrei Nikolishin, Moore's teammate, was there to prevent the killer shot.

And it might well have been a killer shot.

There was premeditation. There was intent to injure. There was extreme violence.

For this, Bertuzzi should forfeit his right to participate in the NHL.

He should be banned for the rest of this season, including the playoffs, and if someone wants to make an argument for a permanent ban, I'd sure be willing to listen.

Moreover, Bertuzzi's coach, smirking Marc Crawford, should receive an enforced holiday, as well.

He could have called off the dogs in the third with his team down by six goals, but instead kept pushing Brad May and Wade Brookbank over the boards to create more trouble.

He helped create the bloodlust that encouraged Bertuzzi to do something terrible.

So call the courts in one more time.

Hand down the stiff suspensions one more time.

And then watch the sick cycle of NHL violence begin anew.

[Draft Dodger]

"Moreover, Bertuzzi's coach, smirking Marc Crawford, should receive an enforced holiday, as well."

I agree 100%, not that it'll happen.
seeing him smirking on the bench after it happened is one of the most sickening things I've seen in a while.

[RendeR]

this article mentions mcsorley's chop of brashear, what ever happened to mcsorley? I thought he got banned for that? or there were civil charges or something?

I have not yet seen this hit on tv, I just haven't caught it on espn...I'll with hold my finaly opnion until then, but from everything I've heard and read, the man ought to be tried for assault with intent to injure or whatever the highest charge of assualt might be.

this is just rediculous.

[hukarez]

I don't quite follow hockey as avidly as I do with football...but does this Bertuzzi fellow have history for stuff like this? Is it the Romanowski equivalent of the NHL?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by RendeR

this article mentions mcsorley's chop of brashear, what ever happened to mcsorley? I thought he got banned for that? or there were civil charges or something?

He received an indefinite suspension, which turned out to be one year. There were also criminal charges that resulted in a suspended sentence and community service (no jail time).

But McSorely isn't necessarily a great comparison. He was an aging player in his final year, and a fourth line role-player. Whatever you think of what he did, he was an easy guy to drop the hammer on. Nobody was going to complain too loudly if the league made an example out of him. Bertuzzi -- a young superstar on a contending team -- is a tougher call.

Bertuzzi does have a history, although nothing like this. He's been suspended for fighting-related incidents in the past, and is a guy who does play with an edge (as they say).

[Draft Dodger]

McSorley is currently the coach of the AHL Springfield Falcons (Coyote's farm team).
there's talk of Gretzky bringing him in to coach the 'Yotes at some point.

[CubsFan915]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

McSorley is currently the coach of the AHL Springfield Falcons (Coyote's farm team).
there's talk of Gretzky bringing him in to coach the 'Yotes at some point.

Great. A whole team of cheap-shotting thugs. Exactly what the NHL needs.

[sachmo71]

I'm done with fighting in the NHL. I used to think it had it's place, but if they outlaw all of this...make it illegal to punch a guy delibertly, at least, maybe this sort of thing will end.

[Mota]

I personally think that hockey is stupid.

And yes, I'm Canadian. But let me make a correction, I think the NHL is stupid. In the NHL penalties are considered good. Bertuzzi is leading his team in penalty minutes, and that means that he has an "edge". But how many power plays has he given his opposition, and in turn how many goals did it cost them?

That's like if in the NFL a DL keeps getting false starts. "He's really anxious to get into the play!", the NHL announcers would say. The truth is he's costing you yards.

I'm all for the sport of hockey. The sport where speed, skill, shooting gets you goals. And good hitting gives you an advantage in the open ice and corners. I'm totally against what the NHL represents today ... neutral zone traps, goons, cheap shots and fights. I think that makes a good sport into the most boring show on the planet.

And I also think that the NHL is asking for things like this to happen. By encouraging fighting and considering it part of the game, you're giving people an outlet for their anger and frustration. And people get carried away, causing incidents like this.

Sorry if I offend anybody with this attitude.

[corbes]

I think there's a difference between standard hockey fighting and criminally assaulting someone. There's a line there, even if you are playing sports when it happens.

[KevinNU7]

He should be suspended until Moore comes back. If Moore doesn't come back then niether does Todd

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I'm done with fighting in the NHL. I used to think it had it's place, but if they outlaw all of this...make it illegal to punch a guy delibertly, at least, maybe this sort of thing will end.

Is this a result of fighting? Moore's injury wasn't a result of a fight, in fact it was the opposite, the result of not fighting. I am not saying that Moore should have fought Bertuzzi or deserved what he got for not dropping the gloves.

There is the old argument to be made that if the instigator rule wasn't in place, this sort of thing would have been dealt with weeks ago when it happened. Someone would have immediately dropped the gloves, there would have been a "fair" or at least face-to-face fight (likely resulting in little to no injury) and the would have been it. It wouldn't have had to come of this. In fact, Moore's fight with Matt Cooke should have been the end of it. Bertuzzi acted like an idiot.

I can see the argument being made that if fighting weren't apart of the game, Bertuzzi wouldn't have punched him and the like. Well, that may be true, may be he just would have taken his stick to him or something along those lines.

Bertuzzi's action was horrible. There is no defense for it. It mars the sport. That being said, I still think there is a place for fighting in the game.

[Sun Tzu]

I don't think this would have gotten half as overblown as it did if Moore only wound up with a broken nose and a bad headache. I have seen nastier shots that resulted in next to nothing as far as injuries go. I was comparing this to the Warren Sapp incident because of the seriousness of the injury, and the fact that neither of the recipients were looking when it came. That is the only comparison I was intending to make. Sapp did not blast that guy from the front, nor was it from behind, but it was kind of behind/from the side.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Travis

The thing that works against Todd in this one is timing. The hit on Naslund by Moore was during the second period (if memory serves). Nobody on the Canucks went after him right after the hit, or any time during that game. Following the game, Crawford was lamenting how little respect the top scorer in the league got from the refs as no penalty was called (quick q: why should it matter who got hit, a penalty is a penalty is a penalty Crawford, don't cry because it was your star that got hit with no penalty call, I should hope you'd stand up for your 4th line guys in the same way).

Because of all the 'outrage' from the Canuck players following the game (even though they felt no need to back up their captain when it happened), they pretty much put a bounty out on Moore, and in light of that, Todd's act in the last game was nothing more than premeditated assault. While most infractions on the ice are spontaneous, or agreed upon fights by the enforcers, this has no place in the game. All he had to do was spin Moore around and give him the chance to defend himself and nobody would be on Bertuzzi's case about this, and hell, he probably would have pounded Moore into next week in a fair fight.

As somebody who has never been a fan of Bertuzzi, I've been trying to keep a somewhat objective viewpoint on this incident because it would be entirely too easy just to discount him completely, and while breaking Moore's neck was obviously not his intention, the entire act disgusts me, and I hope people don't forget about this any time soon.

Travis from my understanding they weren't allowed to do anything that game by their coach. 2 minute instigating and 10 minute misconduct goes to the instigator in that situation.

That instigator penality in my opinion has allowed hockey to turn into a sport of cheap shots. Back in the day, you thought twice about taking shots at stars because their was retribution to be paid. If you saw moores hit on naslund it wasn't clean either.

Hockey is a sport for a warriors mentality but Bettman has come in ruined it all.

[MrBug708]

Is there a link of the hit on video? Other then ESPN?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mota

I'm all for the sport of hockey. The sport where speed, skill, shooting gets you goals. And good hitting gives you an advantage in the open ice and corners. I'm totally against what the NHL represents today ... neutral zone traps, goons, cheap shots and fights. I think that makes a good sport into the most boring show on the planet.

The same thing has happened to basketball, and has ruined the NBA (and is working on ruining the college game) for me.

[Mota]

"There is the old argument to be made that if the instigator rule wasn't in place, this sort of thing would have been dealt with weeks ago when it happened. "

That's exactly what I'm against. People think that fighting is the resolution to everything in hockey. There's no instigator rule in basketball, but do you see people deliberately taking people out at the knees, or mugging people from behind? Nah, because they know that it's not part of the game and that they'll get punished for their actions.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Is there a link of the hit on video? Other then ESPN?

the one I saw was
http://www.hockeyfights.com/cf277/04...hots_moore.wmv
but it seems to be hosed at the moment

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Mota

I'm totally against what the NHL represents today ... neutral zone traps, goons, cheap shots and fights. I think that makes a good sport into the most boring show on the planet.

You make some good points. But with the exception of the trap, none of the things you mentioned are new to the NHL. In fact, there's been far less fighting and brawling in the past ten years than in just about any era in league history.

You could certainly argue that any fighting is too much, but implying that the NHL is turning into a more violent game isn't really accurate.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I still think there is a place for fighting in the game.

And that is why I will never care about the NHL. I love college hockey but the NHL holds zero interest. Yawn.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

And that is why I will never care about the NHL. I love college hockey but the NHL holds zero interest. Yawn.

Funny. I'm the exact opposite. I even went to a big time college hockey school (we won the National Championship while I was there). I enjoyed, but the college game pales in comparison to the NHL. Fighting is one very small difference. The other is simply talent and speed. The gap between the level of talent and speed in the NHL and that in college hockey is enormous. After growing up watching the NHL, I find college hockey almost frustrating to watch at times.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Mota

"There is the old argument to be made that if the instigator rule wasn't in place, this sort of thing would have been dealt with weeks ago when it happened. "

That's exactly what I'm against. People think that fighting is the resolution to everything in hockey. There's no instigator rule in basketball, but do you see people deliberately taking people out at the knees, or mugging people from behind? Nah, because they know that it's not part of the game and that they'll get punished for their actions.

Point #1. There are quite a few fights in basketball also.

Point #2. The NBA is scripted almost as bad as the WWF

Point #3. Basketball is not a contact sport like hockey.

Point #4. There are quite a few fights in Rugby and Lacrosse both games that have similiar play styles to hockey.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by druez

Point #1. There are quite a few fights in basketball also.

Point #2. The NBA is scripted almost as bad as the WWF

Point #3. Basketball is not a contact sport like hockey.

Point #4. There are quite a few fights in Rugby and Lacrosse both games that have similiar play styles to hockey.

Wow, all your points are wrong. Impressive quad.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by druez

Point #1. There are quite a few fights in basketball also.

Point #2. The NBA is scripted almost as bad as the WWF

Point #3. Basketball is not a contact sport like hockey.

Point #4. There are quite a few fights in Rugby and Lacrosse both games that have similiar play styles to hockey.

There is no sport, that I am aware of, in which fighting is a part of the game, like it is in hockey (except maybe professional indoor lacrosse, but I can't recall). Even if there are fights in some sports (rugby, football, lacrosse) the combatants will most certainly be ejected.

I think it's a fair argument that hockey players are more likely to punch one another as a reaction to some injustice than other sports because figthing is legal and has always been a big part of the game. It filters down to the college level and other junior level leagues where fighting is banned.

[Maple Leafs]

I may be alone in this, but I would much rather see two hockey players drop the gloves and fight each other than:
- Football players slashing their throats, riding imaginary ponies and crotch-chopping each other after every play
- Two basketball players trying to act tough for the camera while making sure their teammates are holding them back
- A baseball "brawl" with two guys hugging and 50 others running onto the field, including relievers in their slippers

[druez]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Wow, all your points are wrong. Impressive quad.

How can you say that?

Are you saying there aren't fights in basketball? Ok whatever.

Sure, I was being sarcastic about the scripting of the NBA, but look at Jordans last championship run against Birds Pacers where the officials decided the game so Jordan could goto another final. Looks real bad.

Basketball is no where close to being a contact sport like hockey. You can't check? Not sure what you are talking about.

Every watch Rugby or Lacrosse either box style or outdoor. There are ALOT of fights in both of those events.

So please try and think before posting thank you.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

There is no sport, that I am aware of, in which fighting is a part of the game, like it is in hockey (except maybe professional indoor lacrosse, but I can't recall). Even if there are fights in some sports (rugby, football, lacrosse) the combatants will most certainly be ejected.

I think it's a fair argument that hockey players are more likely to punch one another as a reaction to some injustice than other sports because figthing is legal and has always been a big part of the game. It filters down to the college level and other junior level leagues where fighting is banned.

From my understanding of Rugby, you don't get ejected for fighting you get in a penalty box of sorts. I could be wrong, I don't know all the rules even though I watch it any chance I get on fox world sports. I know I saw some punches thrown in the rugby world cup and the players weren't ejected.

Long time Flyer Fan from the Philly area. If there was no fighting, the broad street bullies would of never won

[corbes]

Mota's post was about the instigator rule, not fighting in hockey vis a vis other sports.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Funny. I'm the exact opposite. I even went to a big time college hockey school (we won the National Championship while I was there). I enjoyed, but the college game pales in comparison to the NHL. Fighting is one very small difference. The other is simply talent and speed. The gap between the level of talent and speed in the NHL and that in college hockey is enormous. After growing up watching the NHL, I find college hockey almost frustrating to watch at times.

Can you imagine how fun it would be to watch the talent and speed in the NHL playing hockey with rules similar to the college game? But it'll never happen so I'll contine to not care about the NHL.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I may be alone in this, but I would much rather see two hockey players drop the gloves and fight each other than:
- Football players slashing their throats, riding imaginary ponies and crotch-chopping each other after every play
- Two basketball players trying to act tough for the camera while making sure their teammates are holding them back
- A baseball "brawl" with two guys hugging and 50 others running onto the field, including relievers in their slippers

you are not alone.

[bhlloy]

Fact - there have been more of these incidents since the instigator rule was introduced. Fighting had a place in the game, they removed that without any thought of the consequences because they were trying to pander to a new market.

For me, hockey is (or was) about skill, big hits and fights. My opinion and an opinion that many hockey fans share. Call me a neanderthal or whatever but I don't see why my opinion is any less valid than yours.

The real problem in hockey is that the superstars have gone. Gretzky, Lemeiux, Orr etc... were all incredibly talented, down to earth guys who performed night in and night out. They were the reason people were drawn to hockey. The league has overexpanded and the talent has run thin... can anyone name one guy nowadays who you would actually pay good money to see?

[bhlloy]

dola - great post by Maple Leafs. Sums up what I wanted to say.

The Rugby argument... there might be less out and out fights in Rugby but there is 2x the violence and serious injuries that there are in hockey. Stamping, gouging, biting etc.... I know which sport I would rather stay away from if I hated violence

[Mota]

Maple Leafs, you are right. But comparing today's game of hockey with the 1-1 ties against the 5-4 games of the 80's is a whole different thing. Man, it was fun to watch the Penguins power play, or see the Oilers just skating up and down the rink like mad. That is good hockey. Give me skilled hockey over today's junk anytime.

My example about basketball was just that. I'm not a big enough fan of basketball to tell you how many fights you see. However I am 100% sure that the teams don't carry a "fight" player on their roster that they only bring out to get in fights with the other team's "fight" player. That's a pretty big difference IMO.

And using the fact that hockey is a contact sport as an excuse is completely wrong. If they allowed fighting in football and gave each player a 5 yard penalty (thus cancelling itself out), imagine how stupid that would be to watch ... but somehow the NFL keeps it under control. The whole fighting thing makes the NHL look amateur-ish, and IMO makes the target demographic of the sport the drunken redneck.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Mota

The whole fighting thing makes the NHL look amateur-ish, and IMO makes the target demographic of the sport the drunken redneck.

The NHL wishes they could get the drunken redneck, then they might get ratings similar to NASCAR. As it stands the NHL's target demographic is Canadians, which is sort of like drunken rednecks only we can't wear tank-tops most of the year.

[bhlloy]

Mota - do you think Gretzky would have been the same player and lasted as long as he did without Semenko and McSorley? Teams wouldn't go near him because they knew if they did they would have to pay for it. Same for Yzerman playing on the same line as Probert and to some extent Lemeiux having Caufield in Pittsburgh.

I want the 80's back as much as you, but you forget the 80's was the heyday of the enforcer/goon/whatever you want to call it. Fighting was a deterrant and it worked and stars and skill players knew they could play their game in peace. Then the league overexpanded and changed it's rules and you have the product you have today.

And now suddenly fighting is the cause of 80% of the leagues problems and if only we could get rid of it hockey would be the biggest sport in America and everyone would watch it. Bullshit. That's what Bettman wants you to think because he's made a complete pigs ear of the league and now 25 out of 30 teams are going bust.

[Solecismic]

One simple rule change: everyone wears college-style helmets, take them off voluntarily and it's a match penalty.

We had a situation where if Bertuzzi weren't stopped, there would have been a dead or permanently paralyzed player on the ice. How much further does it have to go?

Many people say fighting restores honor to the ice, that there would be cheap shots galore if not for the threat of some unskilled goon dropping his gloves and flattening your nose.

But if you're wearing a full face mask, and the EXISTING stick rules and obstruction rules are called properly, all that's left are clean, hard shots. Kinda like the one that got Moore into trouble in the first place.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by druez

Travis from my understanding they weren't allowed to do anything that game by their coach. 2 minute instigating and 10 minute misconduct goes to the instigator in that situation.

That instigator penality in my opinion has allowed hockey to turn into a sport of cheap shots. Back in the day, you thought twice about taking shots at stars because their was retribution to be paid. If you saw moores hit on naslund it wasn't clean either.

Hockey is a sport for a warriors mentality but Bettman has come in ruined it all.

My point is that (and I don't know who was on the ice at the time of the incident), if this was as bad as the Canuck players/coaches were making it out to be, there would have been an immediate response right after the hit. Instigator wouldn't have happened, as it would have been whomever was on the ice coming to the defense of their captain (was Bertuzzi on the ice at that point?). Odds are also that Moore would have been willing to dance with whoever came and challenged him (as he seemed willing to last night), again, waiving the instigator if it's done the 'right' way.

I've rooted against the Canucks since the days of Bertuzzi and Brashear, and now Crawford is firmly on that list as well. As much as I like seeing the things Naslund, Linden, Jovanovski and Ohlund can do, until those two are gone, I'll root against them every game (of course being in the same division as the Oiler's is a driving factor as well).

[Easy Mac]

I'm upset with all the ESPN hockey guys who are saying that this is only an NHL matter and that what happens in a fight should be immune to prosecution. How they equate what Bertuzzi did to a fight is beyond be. A fight is when 2 people try to hit eachother. When someone jumps the other person without a chance for retalation, its assault and being a pussy.

[druez]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Mota - do you think Gretzky would have been the same player and lasted as long as he did without Semenko and McSorley? Teams wouldn't go near him because they knew if they did they would have to pay for it. Same for Yzerman playing on the same line as Probert and to some extent Lemeiux having Caufield in Pittsburgh.

I want the 80's back as much as you, but you forget the 80's was the heyday of the enforcer/goon/whatever you want to call it. Fighting was a deterrant and it worked and stars and skill players knew they could play their game in peace. Then the league overexpanded and changed it's rules and you have the product you have today.

And now suddenly fighting is the cause of 80% of the leagues problems and if only we could get rid of it hockey would be the biggest sport in America and everyone would watch it. Bullshit. That's what Bettman wants you to think because he's made a complete pigs ear of the league and now 25 out of 30 teams are going bust.

I remember in the 80's when Tocket and Brown came out on the ice before a Bruins game during the playoffs, to stop the ritual of the puck being shot in the oposing teams goal before the game. Just out there in suspenders and there was a huge brawl before the game.

The neutrel zone trap and the clutching and grabbing are what slowed the game of hockey down.

BTW Hockey should of never expanded like they did. They had a solid market with teams in the north east and central part of America. Hockey needs to adopt a salary cap and institute some sort of revenue sharing if they want it to survive or markets like Canada simply won't be able to afford to field quality teams any longer. Its happening now and its a shame.

Heck, do you know how they advertise hocky down here in Houston? Some red neck guy saying, Guys with sticks that hit and every once in a while someone gets a whoopin.

They actually had a guaranteed fight night for the minor league team down here. If there wasn't a fight you would get the next game free. They got into trouble for it and had to take the offer back and make it guaranteed win night. This is the Houston Aeros btw.

Hockey is a great sport and the 70's and 80's are the best examples of the sport to date. They attempted to change the rules to make it play more like basketball but its not basketball. Betmen sucks and needs to go.

BTW. I find the NHL all star game boring. That is what hockey would be if they took out all the hitting and fighting. No thanks.